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More of Shepard the Human, Less of Shepard the Hero

Débuté par Fiery Phoenix , mai 05 2011 09:22

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#51
Guest_Gnas_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:56

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[/ghostmode]

I disagree.

Shepard is a soldier.

Shepard as a soldier has values of Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity and Personal Courage. 

Shepard is a Professional Killing Machine. Its was he does. In today's military, you do see emotions and the human aspect when among comrades but never on the battle field. His goal is the mission.

Soldiers don't crack, they break. I've seen it. Many do not come back from that. I would not want to see Shepard break. Soldiers connect to other soldiers, to their team. This is demonstrated time and time again in ME and ME2. Examples: ME - Shepard talking with Kaidan/Ashley, Sheaprd talking with Garrus... ME2 Shepard fighting with Kaidan/Ashley, Shepard saving Garrus.... That is comradary, loyalty and faithfulness.

Shepard is a soldier, he will complete his mission, he was trained to seperate his emotions from his duty and to fullfill the mission. You've seen, and will see his/her emotions when on the Normandy but if you are expecting him to "emote" on the battlefield. Chances are, you won't.

To me, Shepard as a character is a wonderful representation of what I know and have come to respect in a "soldier." I would not want this to change, I would not want him to be more emotional. It wouldn't fit and it wouldn't make sense.

Quotes, that, to me, best describe Shepard...

Soldiers' ability to sustain themselves and their fellow soldiers during periods of high stress is built upon rock-hard confidence in themselves and their leadership chain beginning with fire team leaders or the noncommissioned officer of their section. What we have learned and relearned in our Army is that unit cohesion and teamwork are what give individual soldiers the confidence to use initiative, to be resourceful, and to be all they can be. A soldier always wants the best to be at his front, rear, right and left, trained to stay there regardless of what may happen. A special bond develops when leaders live their lives following the fundamentals of leadership.
SMA Glen E. Morrell

A professional is a dynamic growing being who has learned from the past, acts in the present, but above all focuses on accomplishing his mission...
SMA George W. Dunaway

Take care of each man as though he were your own brother. He is.
SMA William O. Wooldridge

Soldiers are members of a profession of arms which has existed virtually unchanged for thousands of years- far
longer than most other human institutions have existed. The Army has done so because of its unique character- a uniqueness based primarily upon intangibles that cannot be "costed."
SMA William A. Connelly

We build character in order for us to withstand the rigors of combat and resist the temptations to compromise  our principles in peacetime. We must build character in peacetime because there is no time in war. Character is the most important quality you can find in any person, but especially in a soldier. It is the foundation that will get anybody through anything he may encounter. Reputation is what people think you are; character is what you are- thatis the staying power.
SMA Glen E. Morrell

The core of a soldier is moral discipline. It is intertwined with the discipline of physical and mental achievement. It motivates doing on your own what is right without prodding. It is an inner critic that refuses to tolerate less than your
best. Total discipline overcomes adversity and physical stamina draws on an inner strength that says "drive on."
SMA William G. Bainbridge

[ghostmode] :ph34r:

#52
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:18

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Wow, you really returned to the forums with a blast. :P

Soldier or cook, they're both human and they're both vulnerable. After all Shepard has and will go through, it has to show on her. Think of Saving Private Ryan; those guys were soldiers to the core, and yet they wonderfully demonstrated the psychological effects of war on their personalities indefinitely throughout the movie. There is nothing wrong in playing the oh-so-awesome superman, but there is definitely something wrong if what happens in a story isn't reflected on the protagonist in one way or another. Because, y'know, that's bad writing, period.

#53
habitat 67
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:21

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Gnas wrote...
:ph34r:


Well I was all about to agree with everyone until I read this. Good points Gnas.
I'd also like to add that this was Bioware's first game with a voiced protagonist, where the emotioned reactions were once saved for the game's player. I would still like to see a bit of emotion though, now that entire planets are being destroyed and all. Does anyone remember Aragorn's kicking of the helmet in Two Towers? Nice display of emotion without a cracking moment.

#54
Guest_Gnas_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:36

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Shepard was written as a hero. Heroes sacrifice and are duty bound. All video games that feature a protagonist as an expert in combat/extreme situations are heroes. We play games to simulate what it is like to be a hero.

If Shepard were a regular guy, how popular would he be? Why would you want to play a video game such as that?

There are emotional aspects to Shepards character. One can blame story writing but that does not lessen the reality that Shepard has emotions and demonstrates those emotions time and time again with ME and ME2.

#55
Someone With Mass
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:39

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A hero without any emotions will be rather boring in the end. And you can display emotions in many ways without resorting to crying or start cutting wrists.

#56
Skarwael
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:41

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Although I can understand your points, Gnas, Shepard is going to be largely responsible for the survival of galactic civilisation (as cheesy as that is), and I don't think that would have been covered in his training.

I would like Shepard to show a bit of stress, a bit of fracturing but not all out blubbing.

#57
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 12:42

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Gnas wrote...

Shepard was written as a hero. Heroes sacrifice and are duty bound. All video games that feature a protagonist as an expert in combat/extreme situations are heroes. We play games to simulate what it is like to be a hero.

If Shepard were a regular guy, how popular would he be? Why would you want to play a video game such as that?

There are emotional aspects to Shepards character. One can blame story writing but that does not lessen the reality that Shepard has emotions and demonstrates those emotions time and time again with ME and ME2.

Shepard was also written as the pivotal protagonist of a full-fledged trilogy. If I start ME1 and finish ME3 with the same exact person, something isn't exactly right. Character development is a must if you're writing a protagonist-focused story. The protagonist can be an emotionless brick here and there, but that has to change as they advance through the adventure--otherwise, it's plain and simple bad writing. There are literally hundreds of ways for the writer to demonstrate this.

You're right there were quite a few such moments in ME1 and ME2, especially during the romances, but I'm hoping it is emphasized on in the final resolution, for the reason remarked in the OP.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 06 mai 2011 - 12:44 .

#58
Guest_Gnas_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:03

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My point has been and continues to be, Shepard does show emotion in ME and ME2. When among his teammates, not on the battlefield.

Looking at Shepard as a character, you have to take into consideration what he/she is based on, and the character is based on a soldier.

That foundation is what dictates that characters actions. That foundation also speaks to the audience. Without that foundation, that basis which outlines the characters behavior then the character would vacillate and not be consistent. Shepard as the hero, has consistency as a character.

To stray from that consistency would be, in my opinion, detrimental to the franchise as a whole. Character development would need to be maintained within the environment and based on the foundation of that character.

Meaning, if Shepard hasn't been overly emotional up to this point. Ater dying, losing his team, destroying a system, then to have him suddenly begin to emote would be inconsistent and jarring. This would be a contradiction to the character. If anything, Shepard, would continue to be a hero and become larger than life simply because he is now responsible for the fate of the galaxy. He won't falter, if anything, he will be even more determined. That would be the appropriate character development.

At the final moment of the conclusions, I would expect to see Shepard just as determined. That to me, would be appropriate.

#59
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:11

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You should've totally said that from the beginning. Yes, that's actually one way I'd like to see this. As long as it is reflected on Shepard, regardless of how, where, and when, it is good enough for me. However, stories sometimes tend to have those very "specific" moments where the protagonist is supposed to be themselves for a second, which are also another way of achieving visible character development.

If anything, the recent magazine reveals have confirmed that ME3 will be a complex story with an amazing number of variables. You can thus expect to see numerous phases of Shepard's character based on these events and variables. I just hope it is executed well enough.

#60
Guest_Gnas_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:20

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Totally? XD

You know my perspective. Shepard's emotional lassitude as a character is a great discussion topic. Why put a premature stop to such an enjoyable and lively debate? I think not. :D

Now, I am going back into ghost mode. Perhaps I will blast out in another three months, or so. :)

Thanks, buddy!

#61
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:24

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Right on. See you in that place which starts with an M in the next few hours. :lol:

#62
Labrev
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:46

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I'm not sure I want to see Shepard "crack" at any point, but I do more/less agree. Personally I wish that conversations with squadmates would be more, conversational, in that way and they'd shoot a couple questions back at you (rather than you doing the talking all the time). It would help develop that "human" side of Shepard. I was disappointed that you were rarely asked much about your background/service in ME1, it was alluded to a couple times and asked about as much (VS: "how did you deal with losing fellow soldiers on ____?"). Doesn't happen at all in ME2.

#63
Elvis_Mazur
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 01:57

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No! We need more of Shepard The Emo!

#64
Iakus
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 07:06

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Totally agree.

ME 2 Shep was almost exclusively the remorseless cybernetic killing machine.  Shepard the Terminator, even without the glowing eyes and scars.

In addition to "the slump" in ME1, Shep can talk about his experiences on Elysium, Torfan, or Akuze and how those experiences affected him. My colonist Shepard even had a talk with Ash when she "put her foot in her mouth" talking family to someone who lost his family on Mindoir.

If ME3 is going to be "victory through sacrifice"  there really should be opportunities to reflect back on Shepard's decisions, chances for Shep to second guess himself, wonder what might have been, express anger or sadnes when things go to hell.

I figure, if Jack, of all people can be moved to tears, Shep ought to show at least a degree of emotion when facing with extinction on a galactic scale.  Particularly if the LI from a previous game is a squadmate.

#65
wepeel_
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 07:10

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Essentially I'd like the option to be there, but not forced upon the player. Confessing the weariness of the weight of the galaxy on your shoulders, breaking down in tears, or just keeping a straight face and shrugging it off - it should be up to you and how you feel your Shepard deals with things.

#66
PsychoWARD23
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 07:34

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Yes.


#67
Evercrow
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 07:42

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I support this thread.Hope eventually it will get it's own banner.
Those moments with Liara(Jacob also invite some of Shep's self-digging) were absolutely necessary. I think ME3 should have more opportunities for such moments, because it's the end of trilogy and you can see pretty clear what character of Shepard was formed ,based on all those decisions from previous games. All you need to do  is to insert such moments to various branches(ending routes).

Modifié par Evercrow, 06 mai 2011 - 08:19 .

#68
CheeseEnchilada
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 07:47

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We don't need tears, rage or a breaking point to express emotion. The locker scene in ME1 was testament to that.

What I'd love to see is Shepard taking a quiet moment to reflect. Squadmate walks into Shepard's room to see him/her sitting on the bed, head down. A position like that could reflect anything; exhaustion, frustration, sadness, reflection, or pure determination. Squadmate asks if Shep's okay, and you get a few choices to express emotion, or simply get down to business. Fairly ambiguous and nothing extreme, both for the sake of player choice and Shepard's psyche.

#69
Mr.Tacito
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:05

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I hope Bioware uses the trial to their advantage and give us more information on Shepard's past (depending on what Pre-Service History and Psychological Profile we chose).

Modifié par Mr.Tacito, 06 mai 2011 - 08:05 .

#70
Kappa Neko
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:14

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So with you, Fiery!

Even though I didn't experience my paragon Shepard as an emotionless killing machine, the game was seriously lacking when it comes to portraying Shepard the human being.
I've criticized this a couple of times myself.
Since this is a role playing game with conversation options, I don't understand why BW didn't provide the emotional option a couple of times. Was that too much of a bother?!
Those who want to play the terminator hero can skip it. But I'm still sad and angry that the only time Shepard showed an reaction to events was in the Shadow Broker DLC!
I don't want Shepard to have a nervous breakdown and curl into a ball on the battlefield, but I want to see regret, sadness, fear and doubt.
Not in front of the whole team but when talking to people in private.

#71
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:18

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CheeseEnchilada wrote...

We don't need tears, rage or a breaking point to express emotion. The locker scene in ME1 was testament to that.

What I'd love to see is Shepard taking a quiet moment to reflect. Squadmate walks into Shepard's room to see him/her sitting on the bed, head down. A position like that could reflect anything; exhaustion, frustration, sadness, reflection, or pure determination. Squadmate asks if Shep's okay, and you get a few choices to express emotion, or simply get down to business. Fairly ambiguous and nothing extreme, both for the sake of player choice and Shepard's psyche.

Posted Image

#72
habitat 67
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:22

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CheeseEnchilada wrote...

We don't need tears, rage or a breaking point to express emotion. The locker scene in ME1 was testament to that.


Yes, that one's good too.

#73
Guest_rynluna_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:33

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This is Shep's final stand and from what I've read she is going to be met with what seems like impossible odds.  There should be some reflection on that.  If she continues to be a brick, then the game will be fail. Shepard doesn't deserve that in the last game we get to play her in.

Modifié par rynluna, 06 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

#74
JamieCOTC
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:35

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In the words of one the greatest space heroes ever ...

How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life.

That's a hero and a human.

#75
Iakus
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:42

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or advice to another leader of an alliance against a galactic invasion of Sufficiently Advanced aliens:

"You can't turn away from death simply because you're afraid of what might happen without you. That's not enough! You're not embracing life. You're fleeing death! So you're caught in between. Unable to go forward or backward. Your friends need what you can be when you are no longer afraid. When you know who you are and why you are and what you want. When you are no longer looking for reasons to live but can simply be."

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