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[Ghost Warrior]

habitat 67 wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

We don't need tears, rage or a breaking point to express emotion. The locker scene in ME1 was testament to that.

Yes, that one's good too.

 
Tears? - No! (maybe for Fem Shep but definitely not for Male Shep)

Rage? - Hell yeah!

[Harmless Crunch]

Yup I completley agree with you OP.
I mean when somebody has died, has come back to life, been forced to work with a terroist group, his/her freinds/lovers hate him/her, killed dozens including inocent civillians, nearly lost old freinds, decided the fate of many species, lost even more freinds/lovers and had to kill 3000 Bartarians to stop all galactic life from being killed.
You would expect that to have some mental affect right?

[Destroy Raiden_]

^ Exactly I'm tired of feeling upset, lost, and betrayed all while my shep is go go brick. I'm one of those people who believe only God can bring you back to life so dying and being brought back by TIM was rather traumatic I didn't know I was going to die in the first 5 seconds of the game. So when shep wakes up I could delude myself into thinking he didn't die he's been in the hospital for maybe a few months. Turns out not true. I thought the attack was my group getting me when I saw the Cerberus logos I'm like, " Ah! I've been captured by Cerberus and yes my guys are coming to save me!" Nope...so thanks to Jacob we find out 2yrs, your ship, and your life are gone as you knew them and shep's a near brick on the subject. I'm reeling he's not there is a bit of a problem here...

[Nohvarr]

Unlikely to happen. Too many people with varying views and beliefs need to be represented by the PC's reactions. Some of them won't buy into this being shown.

Just saying.

[Estelindis]

Yes, more roleplaying options please. :-) ME3 should offer many chances for Shepard to show vulnerability (but s/he should also have the option to be stoic or angry about the given situation).

[CheeseEnchilada]

Nohvarr wrote...

Unlikely to happen. Too many people with varying views and beliefs need to be represented by the PC's reactions. Some of them won't buy into this being shown.

Just saying.

On this train of thought...was there anyone who didn't like the dialog options Shepard had when talking to Liara about the Reapers in LOTSB? Everyone I've spoken to enjoyed it, and I'm curious to see the other side.

I do agree with you to an extent though. The problem with a customizable character is that everyone has their own views on how Shepard should react. If there is an emotional moment, it will probably be short and ambiguious. If I get even a little expression, I'll be happy. The picture that Firey Pheonix posted on the last page is a good example (and exactly what I was thinking when I made my first post. I'm so obvious )

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 07 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[Nyx]

Count me in.

Making the protagonist more "human", and less "super" (at least in personal conversations, if not in the galaxy's perception), allows you to soak in the danger, uncertainty, and high-stakes of the situation. It's a story-telling technique the survival-horror genre uses to draw the player's attention towards the grim atmosphere. Being an inexperienced fighter makes the environment a lot more stimulating, than if you're an unstoppable metahuman soldier, because you expect them to save the day, right? With the former, that guarantee is not so apparent.

On the other hand, this suggestion needs to be handled carefully. Too much, and I'm sure the user will start doubting Shepard's leadership abilities. Sometimes when I read fan-fiction, I have to wonder how in the world this writer's original character ever made it to the rank of a commander, when simple choices causes them to panic and hesitate.

"Heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear. Heroes just react to it differently." - Cus D'Amato, Boxing Trainer

I think it's possible to show Shepard's fear and concerns without making them react hopelessly and crawl into a dark corner.

--------------------------------------

*Another goody:

ME1 Quest: I Remember Me

Lieutenant Girard: She was only six when they took her. Why the hell are we out here, if we can't keep even one little girl safe?

Shepard: {First option} Bad things happen to good people, Lieutenant. That's why you and I are here. Don't wring your hands over her -- help her.

--------------------------------------

rynluna wrote...

This is Shep's final stand and from what I've read she is going to be met with what seems like impossible odds.  There should be some reflection on that. If she continues to be a brick, then the game will be fail. Shepard
doesn't deserve that in the last game we get to play her in.

Exactly. It should feel "impossible".

When it comes to long-term shocking, and ambiguous situations such as these, no one is completely ready. Any doubts they habor must be dealt along the way -- no amount of training can help you spot every trauma -- and I'd like to see how Shepard honestly confronts and manages them. 

We should have the option of seeing the underlying process that Shepard does to prepare themselves mentally and emotionally to lead tough situations. It's never an easy yes-or-no answer. If deciding the fate of a race, is as easy as selecting your choice of icecream, I'd be disappointed. 

I think it' resfreshing that you can capture moments where Shepard doesn't have the immediate, perfect answer for everything, and she/he has to think for awhile about their answer due to the stakes involved.

Modifié par Nyx.Aeterna, 07 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[100k]

Gnas wrote...

[/ghostmode]

I disagree.

Shepard is a soldier.

Shepard as a soldier has values of Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity and Personal Courage. 

Shepard is a Professional Killing Machine. Its was he does. In today's military, you do see emotions and the human aspect when among comrades but never on the battle field. His goal is the mission.

Soldiers don't crack, they break. I've seen it. Many do not come back from that. I would not want to see Shepard break. Soldiers connect to other soldiers, to their team. This is demonstrated time and time again in ME and ME2. Examples: ME - Shepard talking with Kaidan/Ashley, Sheaprd talking with Garrus... ME2 Shepard fighting with Kaidan/Ashley, Shepard saving Garrus.... That is comradary, loyalty and faithfulness.

Shepard is a soldier, he will complete his mission, he was trained to seperate his emotions from his duty and to fullfill the mission. You've seen, and will see his/her emotions when on the Normandy but if you are expecting him to "emote" on the battlefield. Chances are, you won't.

To me, Shepard as a character is a wonderful representation of what I know and have come to respect in a "soldier." I would not want this to change, I would not want him to be more emotional. It wouldn't fit and it wouldn't make sense.

Quotes, that, to me, best describe Shepard...

Soldiers' ability to sustain themselves and their fellow soldiers during periods of high stress is built upon rock-hard confidence in themselves and their leadership chain beginning with fire team leaders or the noncommissioned officer of their section. What we have learned and relearned in our Army is that unit cohesion and teamwork are what give individual soldiers the confidence to use initiative, to be resourceful, and to be all they can be. A soldier always wants the best to be at his front, rear, right and left, trained to stay there regardless of what may happen. A special bond develops when leaders live their lives following the fundamentals of leadership.
SMA Glen E. Morrell

A professional is a dynamic growing being who has learned from the past, acts in the present, but above all focuses on accomplishing his mission...
SMA George W. Dunaway

Take care of each man as though he were your own brother. He is.
SMA William O. Wooldridge

Soldiers are members of a profession of arms which has existed virtually unchanged for thousands of years- far
longer than most other human institutions have existed. The Army has done so because of its unique character- a uniqueness based primarily upon intangibles that cannot be "costed."
SMA William A. Connelly

We build character in order for us to withstand the rigors of combat and resist the temptations to compromise  our principles in peacetime. We must build character in peacetime because there is no time in war. Character is the most important quality you can find in any person, but especially in a soldier. It is the foundation that will get anybody through anything he may encounter. Reputation is what people think you are; character is what you are- thatis the staying power.
SMA Glen E. Morrell

The core of a soldier is moral discipline. It is intertwined with the discipline of physical and mental achievement. It motivates doing on your own what is right without prodding. It is an inner critic that refuses to tolerate less than your
best. Total discipline overcomes adversity and physical stamina draws on an inner strength that says "drive on."
SMA William G. Bainbridge

[ghostmode]

I disagree, because everyone of those quotes idealizes the soldier as the perfect, non failing defender.
The reality of the situation is, behind every helmet, kevlar padding, and rifle...is a human. And throughout all of history, no amount of fire power, training, nationalism, and mental fortitude can change that--has changed that--will change that. Soldiers still come back from war traumatized, or at least full of some personal regret every day. But that doesn't make them weak, it's what makes them strong. Even the best of soldiers have internal struggles, no matter how deep inside them. 

But Hackett and Anderson can provide a dialogue on the entire subject:

Hackett: She saw her whole unit die on Akuze. She could have some serious emotional scars.

Anderson: Every soldier has scars. Shepard's a survivor.

Summed up perfectly.

Having two or three scenes in ME3 where Shepard either loses her temper for a moment, loses her command for a moment, or loses her faith for a moment would never make Shepard a weak character who forfeits the name of soldier. Her ability to fight through the pain/anger/hopelessness, and fight on, and keep fighting, that is what would make her a stellar protagonist. 

[Amyntas]

I prefer a stoic Shepard who controls his emotions and projects confidence. Shepard doesn't get to show weakness because lives depend on his strength and leadership. The fact that every human has emotions doesn't mean he has to indulge in them.

[JamieCOTC]

I can understand people wanting a stoic Shepard just as much as I understand people wanting a Shepard who is more than just a hero. For my money, LotSB did it best in that one dialogue bit.

Liara: How are you actually doing?
Shepard: A) I'm worried. I'm fine. C) I'm angry.

Everybody wins.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 07 mai 2011 - 04:05 .

[Gorosaur]

Didn't Hudson state in the GI article that ME3 would involve alot more of Shepard's personal life? I read this as having a more emotional character.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Shepard's character is determined by the player, so it's not quite possible for anything to "change" Shepard at all. S/he can have thoughtful and/or pensive moments, but only insofar as the player is allowed to determine or imagine what he's thinking. Whenever something forces Shepard to make a choice on his own, someone will invariably complain about not being able to choose themselves.

[Da Mecca]

I hope so.

Unflappable protagonist are not memorable, and are ultimtely boring.

We should remember Shepard for who he/she is not just what she does,

[Evercrow]

Looked over a few ME1 video endings on youtube - I didn't realize there were actually four of them, depending on two critteria:Council live or not(obvious one), Shepard full renegade or not(much subtler).
This is what i mean, when said that ME3 could have branches leading to various ending, their core split being in previous games. You could dot such branches with various "Shepard" moments, emotions vary depending on branch.
For example, a scene where Shep overlooks destruction in the city, leaning on some rails:
1)he break the watch himself, move on
2)break the watch after companion walk up to him(maybe exchanging glances, nodding)
3)break away from the rails in energetic way, maybe beat on the rails a little when parting

Just to show that they can input and mix up a little more of this moments, rather than just having dialogues.
I've read similar moment ideas(without speech) in this thread , i advice considering them to people, who want their Shepard to be stoic (not "emotional wreck")

[Destroy Raiden_]

Basically BW should write some emotionally charged scenes and think what should my viewer aka player be feeling right now? And cover their bases hell employ the 5 wheel option if you have to.

For instance LI or close member of crew gets captured and tortured Talitha/David style and shep has gotten to them and they're dying. How should our player feel? Well for those who romanced them a possibility of anger rage, seething, mortification, and helplessness would be a start. Those who're close friends to them anger seething, horror, and helplessness. So a 5 wheel option clearly identifying the response would be: A; anger rage B; seething C; helplessness D; horror E: seek revenge players choose these options in this scenario.

Other options for scenes the ME pre opening cut scene where shep is listening to a distress signal the ground crew is pleading for his help and he cuts them off and tells Joker to move out. If this scene came to be the player would be tense they should feel internal conflict over this should they help this group and kill the other location or should they leave these people to die and go to the other location? While players are making their choice to choose if shep stands there longer then 60 seconds he starts to show agitation the wheel is still present he may start pacing or putting his hands on his hips as we sometimes see him do when mad. This will show he's struggling like the player is unless that player is callus and has gotten up the make a sandwich but most people aren't going to do that in a situation like this so.

Shep can show emotion, stress, or doubt while waiting for the player to choose their wheel options too. Some people are sounding worried BW might make shep break down say when fighting Kei Lang suddenly he doesn't want to fight anymore collapses and starts crying that's not what people want if there is a VS situation during a mission him showing some emotion or stress there isn't a bad thing he's choosing someones death. But primarily we're referring to on ship the ship is where one rests recoups and regains their strength part of that is post incident feelings.

An example of post incident feelings would be Earth gets attacked by the reapers we would've have little time other then a surprised, " Oh ****! Run!" Moment during all this after the ship is stolen and we tell Joker to high tale it through the relay would shep and his crew finally be able to take stock of what the hell just happened and emotionally process what occurred. It would be here talking to Joker, Kelly, ground crew present form ME2 that we can all exchange how we feel on the subject. Jack might be, " About time the place burned," to which shep could react he's angry at her lack of heart towards her fellow man, he understands but doesn't agree with her, he understands and he does agree with her, or she should shut her pie hole alot of humans just died today decreasing their advantage against the reapers.