48 réponses à ce sujet

[RGFrog]

Use what you want. I can only say, though, that my experience with Shredder ammo was not all that it should have been. I took it as a bonus, lvl 4, brought Thane with same. This was on Normal on the derilict reaper. Figured it would be a good choice against all the husks with only health...

Nope, EPIC FAIL. I quickly reloaded the save just prior and respec to something else and didn't bother with Thane...

But, if it works for you, go for it. Nearly useless on Insanity, for me, though. Better options in other bonuses IMHO.

[aimlessgun]

Shredder ammo is a weaker AP ammo that is in itself a weaker Inferno ammo.

Basically it's just bad.

Plus, enemies without protections really are boned most of the time. They will be on fire, flying through the air, frozen, or knocked to the ground until their HP is gone.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

There's one plus side to SA though. If you shoot enemies in the bum with Shredder Ammo, they look like they're farting.

[The Spamming Troll]

AK404 wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

IMHO he could roll in his grave all he wants.  The second a target loses protections [if it's at range] is the second that its realistic threat level approaches zero.  Even at point blank range virtually no enemies are a problem if you or your entire team isn't on some sort of power cooldown / out of cover / etc.

In game terms, protections are really little more than extra life, and health actually nullifies the damage bonuses from most defense-stripping ammo, but enables the CC bonuses.

a little more then extra health?????? you gotta be kidding me. ME1 was a little extra health.

try telling my adept that!

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^My Insanity-noob Adept is still smiliing, even after slaughtering through half the game!

[Malanek]

Its problem is that it is just too narrow and there are other powers that while not strictly better at everything are very close to it (AP, Incendiary and warp). Having said that I tend to use it more than AP and Warp ammo simply because Thane has it and for the collector missions he is one of the best and you do those missions late when your companions have more spare points.

[The Spamming Troll]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^My Insanity-noob Adept is still smiliing, even after slaughtering through half the game!

lies. i doubt you have any character youd call a noob. how many times does it take to get to the center of ME2s combat? its extremely easy to undertand ME2s gameplay so playing through the game multiple times exponentially makes the game easier each time.

you cant undervalue the impact enemy protections have on insanity for a class like the adept, as is in ME2. thinking differently would just be wrong. if the adepts gameply becomes more usefull, then so shall the vangaurds. if the vangaurd gets to do more in ME3 but the adept still has to play rock pappers scissors, i dont think theres alot of people whod be happy. unless the love sceen with liara+miranda is totally hot.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 mai 2011 - 11:13 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

The only time I've used shredder ammo for real was on my engineer's Arrival fight, and I honestly don't know if it's any better than AP ammo. Bonus ammo powers aren't that great, but for me, I wanted to play without pausing on the console, which meant I can only use 2 powers + drone, so I was stuck with ammo powers. I think Shredder helped killing faster by using 1 less Vindicator burst, which actually did help in tight spots when I'm surviving the waves. But then again, if I had NS/CB at my disposal in the first place, I would less likely be in that situation to begin with. Still, it does look cool.

[termokanden]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lies. i doubt you have any character youd call a noob. how many times does it take to get to the center of ME2s combat? its extremely easy to undertand ME2s gameplay so playing through the game multiple times exponentially makes the game easier each time.

Exponentially huh? Not so sure about that one

Some classes have vastly different playstyles. You can indeed have played the game many times and be a noob with a class you haven't used much before. It's not likely an Engineer would learn where it's best to use Charge and how to do the reload trick, for example.

[The Spamming Troll]

termokanden wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lies. i doubt you have any character youd call a noob. how many times does it take to get to the center of ME2s combat? its extremely easy to undertand ME2s gameplay so playing through the game multiple times exponentially makes the game easier each time.

Exponentially huh? Not so sure about that one

did i use it correctly? its an intimidating word. but im not exactly wrong. theres no suprises your second character wouldnt have anticipated faceing whether its a NG+ or new class. abilities in ME2 are not difficult to udnerstand. learing an ability takes no more then 1 try. and were already assuming theres not alot of new abilites your learing by game 2 anyways.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 11 mai 2011 - 12:29 .

[Timmy Ziggy]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

The only time I've used shredder
ammo for real was on my engineer's Arrival fight, and I honestly don't
know if it's any better than AP ammo. Bonus ammo powers aren't that
great, but for me, I wanted to play without pausing on the console,
which meant I can only use 2 powers + drone, so I was stuck with ammo
powers. I think Shredder helped killing faster by using 1 less
Vindicator burst, which actually did help in tight spots when I'm
surviving the waves. But then again, if I had NS/CB at my disposal in
the first place, I would less likely be in that situation to begin with.
Still, it does look cool.

Yeah, I saw that
video, and it inspired me to re-spec one of my engineers almost
identical to yours, based purely on the fact that it looked different to
anything I'd done before. It's certainly an effective build on xbox,
and kills really fast, but I dont think it was because of Shredder Ammo.
That's kinda why I started this thread, to see if anyone used it
seriously, or why they dont.

I can imagine the sentinel, with
its access to Warp and Overload being the prime class for Shredder, but
it feels gimp-y to not use Stasis/Energy Drain on one. An engineer with
Incinerate, Tungsten ammo and the viper is awesome against armour, but
starts to show redundancy. Adept might find use, but Warp ammo is miles
better with its power boost to ragdolled targets. None of the combat
classes would use it, ever

I'd be interested to see what the developer's say to the use of Shredder Ammo in insanity. Hopefully it will see more/better use in ME3.

[termokanden]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

did i use it correctly? its an intimidating word. but im not exactly wrong. theres no suprises your second character wouldnt have anticipated faceing whether its a NG+ or new class. abilities in ME2 are not difficult to udnerstand. learing an ability takes no more then 1 try. and were already assuming theres not alot of new abilites your learing by game 2 anyways.

There are plenty of things that intimidate me, but the word "exponential" is not one of them. I just don't think anyone will become exponentially better over time. I wish though!

... unrelated, but I just Charged someone and got stuck far into the air and died. Happens a bit too often. Yesterday I got stuck in the air twice as well.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

termokanden wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lies. i doubt you have any character youd call a noob. how many times does it take to get to the center of ME2s combat? its extremely easy to undertand ME2s gameplay so playing through the game multiple times exponentially makes the game easier each time.

Exponentially huh? Not so sure about that one

did i use it correctly? its an intimidating word. but im not exactly wrong. theres no suprises your second character wouldnt have anticipated faceing whether its a NG+ or new class. abilities in ME2 are not difficult to udnerstand. learing an ability takes no more then 1 try. and were already assuming theres not alot of new abilites your learing by game 2 anyways.

Exponential isn't exactly the word I'd use, but i did just jump from playing adept at Veteran to playing adept at Insanity, and I'm still grinning from ear to ear.

But if playing the game repeatedly has made you *exponentially* better, and if you started your ME2 experience at sub-Hardcore like me, then you shouldn't have much difficulty smoking everything with your Adept, I'd think.

IDK, I didn't mean to stir the hornet's nest with that biotics thing though.

[mcsupersport]

Timmy Ziggy wrote...

I can imagine the sentinel, with
its access to Warp and Overload being the prime class for Shredder, but
it feels gimp-y to not use Stasis/Energy Drain on one. An engineer with
Incinerate, Tungsten ammo and the viper is awesome against armour, but
starts to show redundancy. Adept might find use, but Warp ammo is miles
better with its power boost to ragdolled targets. None of the combat
classes would use it, ever

I'd be interested to see what the developer's say to the use of Shredder Ammo in insanity. Hopefully it will see more/better use in ME3.

Any of the classes you listed that might use shredder would be better off having Tungsten ammo.  You see that is the whole problem with shredder, is Tungsten does almost the exact same damage against non-synthetic health, and adds the bonus to synthetic health, and armor.  So for minimal loss of 10% BASE weapon damage you game 70% against two additional targets.  Now it they had made tungsten 40% and Shredder 70 or made Tungsten good against armor and synthetics but not health, then Shredder would have a place but they didn't.  Shredder ammo is just too limited in the effect to not be overshadowed by other better ammos.  You can use it for many reasons, but not because you want an optimal build, it would be strickly roleplaying on any of the harder levels.

[TevinterMagister]

Play long enough and optimal builds become redundant. Only time I actually needed optimal was my first insanity playthrough.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I can see that, but it's impossible to discuss stategy and builds in terms other than what's optimal and what's not. Besides, OP really did want to make a case for the use of SA in serious builds.

[Tony Gunslinger]

mcsupersport wrote...

Timmy Ziggy wrote...

I can imagine the sentinel, with
its access to Warp and Overload being the prime class for Shredder, but
it feels gimp-y to not use Stasis/Energy Drain on one. An engineer with
Incinerate, Tungsten ammo and the viper is awesome against armour, but
starts to show redundancy. Adept might find use, but Warp ammo is miles
better with its power boost to ragdolled targets. None of the combat
classes would use it, ever

I'd be interested to see what the developer's say to the use of Shredder Ammo in insanity. Hopefully it will see more/better use in ME3.

Any of the classes you listed that might use shredder would be better off having Tungsten ammo.  You see that is the whole problem with shredder, is Tungsten does almost the exact same damage against non-synthetic health, and adds the bonus to synthetic health, and armor.  So for minimal loss of 10% BASE weapon damage you game 70% against two additional targets.  Now it they had made tungsten 40% and Shredder 70 or made Tungsten good against armor and synthetics but not health, then Shredder would have a place but they didn't.  Shredder ammo is just too limited in the effect to not be overshadowed by other better ammos.  You can use it for many reasons, but not because you want an optimal build, it would be strickly roleplaying on any of the harder levels.

mcsupersport is right, even if you wanted to use Shredder, the armor dmg bonus in Tungsten will eventually make you want to switch. Shredder was used on Arrival only because I know the only armored enemies will be YMIRs, but for an entire playthrough, AP/Tungsten just makes more sense out of all the ammo options.

As far as improving Shredder, IMO they should have switch it with Radioactive Rounds that deals toxic dmg over time, which would benefit casters who prefer not to spend so much time out of cover shooting. Combine toxic rounds with drone or singularity, take a few pot shots and wait for health go down while you can focus on other enemies would have been a great tactic.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Or perhaps have the Shredder Rounds have some sort of limpet effect, where enemies move/act slower as a result of enough hits... Just 'cos the dmg/time over time effect is already somewhat covered by Incendiary Ammo.

[Timmy Ziggy]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^Or perhaps have the Shredder Rounds have some sort of limpet effect, where enemies move/act slower as a result of enough hits... Just 'cos the dmg/time over time effect is already somewhat covered by Incendiary Ammo.

A slowdown of enemy movement is covered by cryo ammo, even though only the combat classes can get it. It needs something totally different... not freezing, not damage over time, not weapon overheating. Removal of limbs? Organics could lose limbs as easy as the LOKI mechs do when shot enough times (I'm thinking too similar to the gun from Dead Space, aren't I?). Plus, it would help help to up the gore.

May I just add, does anyone miss concussive rounds from ME1?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Cryo Ammo doesn't slow or impair aim. I freezes completely and then doubles biotic and damage effects. My Shredder idea isn't duplicated by any of ME2's ammo effects.

Concussive/Sledgehammer rounds actually sounds interesting. Substantially improved impact force / guaranteed stagger on all enemies, maybe? Not sure how good it'd necessarily be, but Shep could win any gun duel with something like that.

[Alamar2078]

Having an ammo similar to "Sledgehammer" ammo sounds reasonable to me. While your damage boost may not be good having a nearly guaranteed knockdown of an unprotected target and a chance to stagger a protected target may be situationally helpful.

In ME1 I kept Sledgehammer in my shotgun. It did crap damage but keeping husks, creepers, etc. on the ground was fine as long as you had infinite ammo & patience

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

For role-playing reasons, I always give squaddies full strength on their exclusive skills. So... I kinda have to use Shredder Ammo. After all, most ammo requires like 1 or 2 points in something else, which means there aren't enough points to get it to Squad level.

[IMNWME]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
.

As far as improving Shredder, IMO they should have switch it with Radioactive Rounds that deals toxic dmg over time, which would benefit casters who prefer not to spend so much time out of cover shooting. Combine toxic rounds with drone or singularity, take a few pot shots and wait for health go down while you can focus on other enemies would have been a great tactic.

Yes!

[Sidesalad]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Having an ammo similar to "Sledgehammer" ammo sounds reasonable to me. While your damage boost may not be good having a nearly guaranteed knockdown of an unprotected target and a chance to stagger a protected target may be situationally helpful.

In ME1 I kept Sledgehammer in my shotgun. It did crap damage but keeping husks, creepers, etc. on the ground was fine as long as you had infinite ammo & patience

I fully agree; seeing Hammerhead/Sledgehammer rounds return would be brilliant. I never really used Shotguns much when I played ME1 (and I can't really face it again after the massive improvement that is ME2), but a Vanguard using Sledgehammer rounds would be insane, provided that they have a good chance to stumble through defences and send things flying when they enemy is in the red.

As for Shredder... meeeeeeeeh. At least it's pretty!