119 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

Guys, please don't let the argument get too heated.
Remember, there's a whole world out there if you look a little to the left, right or above the computer screen. Take a walk and breath for 5 minutes if you find yourself swearing under your breath after reading any particular comment that "gets under your skin".

If this turns into the old "Blah blah is/is not an RPG" thread rife with insults it will go the way of the Dodo bird

[Winterfly]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
Who cares labelling is for marketing purposes.

Yet another quite stupid opinion on the subject. Yeah, when you go to a library and the books are sorted alphabeticaly... it's for the marketing purposes. No, it's for the customer to know what's in the box.

So knowing someone put adventure or RPG on the box tells you what you are about to experience. That means as much as movies labelled drama. You know how many thousands of different stories are told under that simple label? How about humor I don't find most of the stuff funny yet you're saying it has to be because someone said it was. That is actually inane.

If you want to know about a game play the demo and read info about it one or two words depicting genre tells squat.

Mass Effect can be anything from Sci-fi  interactive novel to RPG, to action, to a hentai game in space. You do understand that? You need to lable stuff to know what the heck you get. Try not to lable meat and you will get in trouble when jews are not eating kosher or muslims are not eating halal.

And how is having RPG shooter on the box going to tell you all that? You have eyes don't you? I see on the box art they have guns and obviously sci-fi. You know what no blurb on my ME box saying RPG or shooter or action game. What gross mischaracterization on these boards. I find out about games before I invest in them.

All the stores I go to tend to alphabetize the shelves not genre sort. I guess people must be too dumb without a label to tell them what a game is.

You seriously know that Mass Effect is an RPG simply from a picture like

http://www.pcgametre...enshots-me3.jpg

You are pretty full of bull**** dude. It do not matter what the label tell you. Something need to inform you wtf the game is about. You simply know Mass Effect is an RPG cause you heard it, nothing else.

Nope from looking at the box and reading it. They show an equipment screen with weapons stats. They say incredible real time character interaction. Customize your character ... an immersive open-ended storyline. That means role-playing. They did not have to put RPG in big letters. Effective box art is effective box art.

I am pretty sure some other games would proclaim that today, not being RPG's. Borderlands, great game, not much of a RPG since its linear as hell aside some minor quests...got that too.

[InvincibleHero]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
So knowing someone put adventure or RPG on the box tells you what you are about to experience. That means as much as movies labelled drama. You know how many thousands of different stories are told under that simple label? How about humor I don't find most of the stuff funny yet you're saying it has to be because someone said it was. That is actually inane.

If you want to know about a game play the demo and read info about it one or two words depicting genre tells squat.

Your not proving your point, just proving that you really would like for your point to be valid. Yes, when I see a lable on a horror book that says it's a horror book I'm more likely to check it out if I'm into horror stuff. If I see it's a thriller maybee I won't bother checking because I don't like thrillers. Same goes with any kind of product. I don't like strawberry jello so I'm not going to pick up a jar with strawberry gello from the shelf. If I'm not into shooter games a lable that says "AWESOME SHOOTER" will not catch my interest. 

If I check the game/book/jello's reviews on the internet before buying, often I just go to browse games in the shop and I like to know what I can remotely expect from the product I might be interested in buying. I worked in a shop like that and you would be suprised how many people found it incredibly annoying how Darksiders had absolutely no information about the genre on it's box or what is it about whatsoever, many enough that I had to bother and read about the game on the internet so I can give some anwsers each time people asked me about it.

Twilight can be considered horror go check that out might be up your alley then.  

[Kusy]

InvincibleHero... you visit shitty stores.
And Twilight is a horror. Yet again, you are not proving your point, just stating your opinion on Twilight being a bad horror. Hm... well dunno if it is a horror... migh as well be fantasy. But that's another discussion.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 06 mai 2011 - 08:24 .

[Dave666]

Winterfly wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effect was a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 2 was a Shooter with RPG bits thrown in.

Fixed that for you.

I play RPG's, I dont care much for shooters. Seemingly today you can toss in a story and you have a RPG? Wow.

If Mass Effect 3 is a full shooter without unlinear options and bound in chapters/levels I will not buy it. Then I probably get it used or something. Clearly wont get a game proclaimed RPG turned fullfledged shooter. 

I was actually agreeing with you. I'm tired of hearing people claim that ME:1 was a shooter because Shepard and co happened to use guns.  If thats what makes something a shooter then apparently KOTOR was a shooter...

[InvincibleHero]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

InvincibleHero... you visit shitty stores.

I wouldn't call gamestop good for PC gaming. Humor me tell me what excellent stores you frequent and why they are so. All big box retailers like Best Buy, Target, Walmart etc alphabetize.

My point was it matters more what is in the box than what they label it. A great game is a great game no matter waht genre someone thinks it falls into. Quite simple.

[javierabegazo]

Winterfly wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effect was a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 2 was a Shooter with RPG bits thrown in.

Fixed that for you.

I play RPG's, I dont care much for shooters. Seemingly today you can toss in a story and you have a RPG? Wow.

If Mass Effect 3 is a full shooter without unlinear options and bound in chapters/levels I will not buy it. Then I probably get it used or something. Clearly wont get a game proclaimed RPG turned fullfledged shooter. 

The problem with the RPG elitism is that Many would argue that an RPG, no matter how bad the mechanics are, is a better game than any Shooter.

Deus Ex will always be better than Final Fantasy XII in my book because Deus Ex's dev team made a  fun game with an interesting story, and in the end, that's why we play games. to be entertained.

I don't care if you've got all the sacred cows of an RPG, if it's not fun to play, I'm not going to waste my time. Similarily, I don't care if you say that because I can't customize my helmet in Battlefield 3, it makes it an inferior game.

As long as the GAME ITSELF has a riveting story with memorable characters, I'm sure that I will love playing. There's much more artistry to games besides "Hmm, what amulet should I wear?" or "Should I take this +5 dmg over +5% Crit DMG ?"

There's the cinematics, the voice acting, the story, the graphic modeling, the digital acting, the audio fx, the MUSIC, I could go on and on.

In the end, remember that games are for entertainment, and as long as you are mentally engaged, the game has done it's job.

[javierabegazo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

InvincibleHero... you visit shitty stores.

I wouldn't call gamestop good for PC gaming. Humor me tell me what excellent stores you frequent and why they are so. All big box retailers like Best Buy, Target, Walmart etc alphabetize.

My point was it matters more what is in the box than what they label it. A great game is a great game no matter waht genre someone thinks it falls into. Quite simple.

Exactly. If anything, when I tell someone about Mass Effect, I never say "Oh, it's this awesome RPG" because often if I'm telling them of Mass Effect, they're not a gamer, and as such, aren't quite aware of the artistry that video games can have, (note I didn't exclude other video game genres from that).


Chances are, they don't even know what RPG means, and a lot of what Mass Effect trilogy has accomplished, no other RPG or video game for that matter has ever gotten close to. and so I tell them. "Dude, there's this game, called Mass Effect, its incredible."

[InvincibleHero]

Dave666 wrote...

I was actually agreeing with you. I'm tired of hearing people claim that ME:1 was a shooter because Shepard and co happened to use guns.  If thats what makes something a shooter then apparently KOTOR was a shooter...

Well combat was shooter gameplay. Everything else is story and RPG. Mass effect has always had more story exposition and dialogue choices coupled with plot points than combat. If you had a game with just all RP it'd be quite boring. Combat is what you do in-between the meat of the game.

[Kusy]

Well... now this conversation is making less and less sense. Yes, Mass Effect 1 had shooter combat. The only diffrence is that in ME1 the combat was incredibly affected by RPG elements (skills invested and such) while in ME2 it's purely player-skill (if you can call popping out of cover a player-skill) dependant where you could defeat the final boss without investing any points anywhere.

In Mass Effect 1 you could have a lot of player-skill, but if you wouldn't invest skills and change equipment as you level up, you would get killed by the dumbest mooks every time you engage them because you were not improving while the enemies did. This is what made Mass Effect's combat a hybrid of RPG and Shooter, skills directly affected combat abilities.

Mass Effect 2 can be beaten without changing the weapons from what you get at the start, without leveling up even once, without upgrading anything. It's harder but possible. Your powers managment has no reall affect on shooter mechanics, it only adds powers to play and you can finish the game without using them at all. This is why Mass Effect 2 is a storydriven shooter with minimal RPG elements.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 06 mai 2011 - 08:32 .

[InvincibleHero]

Yeah but if you shot behind you even with 100% accuracy you'll miss the krogan charging in front of you. You still had to point and click just like any shooter.

[Kusy]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...
InvincibleHero... you visit shitty stores.

I wouldn't call gamestop good for PC gaming. Humor me tell me what excellent stores you frequent and why they are so. All big box retailers like Best Buy, Target, Walmart etc alphabetize.
My point was it matters more what is in the box than what they label it. A great game is a great game no matter waht genre someone thinks it falls into. Quite simple.

I don't live in your country, we don't visit the same stores. I wasn't aware that stores here were better than in states, makes me kind of proud to be honest. As I said, I worked in a big store, on games, every product - comics, books, games, art accesories were placed acording to genre, author or purpose they were made for.

Anyhow, I'm not arguing that Mass Effect is not a good game, I'm not arguing that you are more likely to buy something because their friends told them it's good than because a label says so. I'm arguing that there are people who do buy games, books and whatever because they like a certain genre and that they buy them acording to labels. You have points, I belive I do too, argument is dry.

[Kusy]

InvincibleHero wrote...Yeah but if you shot behind you even with 100% accuracy you'll miss the krogan charging in front of you. You still had to point and click just like any shooter.

Brah, could you stop arguing for argument's sake? It's what I said. Mass Effect 1 has shooter combat driven with RPG mechanics, Mass Effect 2 has pure shooter combat. RPG elements exist in ME2 but they are actualy meaningless since you can beat the game without using them (except for the tutorial, it's the one and single situation where the game forces you to use a skills, exacly two of them - overload and pull).

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 06 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[CroGamer002]

Winterfly wrote...

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 1 is both SHOOTER and RPG.



Wanna proof that is also a shooter?

[CroGamer002]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...Yeah but if you shot behind you even with 100% accuracy you'll miss the krogan charging in front of you. You still had to point and click just like any shooter.

Brah, could you stop arguing for argument's sake? It's what I said. Mass Effect 1 has shooter combat driven with RPG mechanics, Mass Effect 2 has pure shooter combat. RPG elements exist in ME2 but they are actualy meaningless since you can beat the game without using them (except for the tutorial, it's the one and single situation where the game forces you to use a skills, exacly two of them - overload and pull).

You can but why you wouldn't?

Actually I don't know if anyone tried to beat 1 mission with combat without using any power at least once.

[Dave666]

Mesina2 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 1 is both SHOOTER and RPG.



Wanna proof that is also a shooter?

KOTOR, the only difference is camera angles.

Modifié par Dave666, 06 mai 2011 - 09:02 .

[TomY90]

I disagree with mass effect being a fantasy game because mass effect fits the definition of RPG better than most games try to (definition below of what is RPG)

'changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role' (wikipedia)

technically every single game in the world is an RPG game even call of duty does this granted not very well but you do play the role of a US marine, SAS etc.

But true RPGs (where you control the story etc) which nowadays western RPGs do this all the time look at fallout, oblivion, dragon age, fable they all do this to such a huge level where all of them are trying to save the world from something and creating a role for you to feel part of. Sadly the japanese RPGs have not, they do what I call Pokemon RPG gaming.

and granted mass effect is less of the traditional RPG game with all the potions, spells etc but the market and gamers tend to want more "fun" games not ones where you have to really think about the fighting which i think mass effect got this spot on which you rightly said (or someone else did I saw comment on this topic) in which you do what you know what to do in games like call of duty then what people love the story have the RPG elements fly in to make it your story.

which this formula is so good the market is struggling to copy it (do not remind me of too human trying to rip off the ME series and missing by a country mile) and you can see games incorporating the mass effect formula slowly even fable took a leaf out of mass effects book (i know fable actually improving the game is a shock to the system) in which they no longer had a muted main character. 

my point is that mass effect is a 100% RPG but due to it being such a game changer on how we believe RPG games meant to be the industry is still in catch up mode and is not helping when bioware improve the formula further with ME3 and the old style of RPG gaming where you have to look at stats and everything else is part of a dying breed. (which I am glad of hated looking at stats just liked having the best I could get for my characters)

[marshalleck]

Dave666 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 1 is both SHOOTER and RPG.



Wanna proof that is also a shooter?

KOTOR, the only difference is camera angles.

No. KOTOR is not a shooter. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 mai 2011 - 09:04 .

[Dave666]

marshalleck wrote...

No. KOTOR is not a shooter. 

 
  
That was kinda my point.  Just because your character uses guns instead of swords and bows and arrows, does not automatically make it a shooter.

Modifié par Dave666, 06 mai 2011 - 09:08 .

[CroGamer002]

Dave666 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No. KOTOR is not a shooter.

  
That was kinda my point.  Just because your character uses guns instead of swords and bows and arrows, does not automatically make it a shooter.

Do you even KNOW what is shooter?

[Dave666]

Mesina2 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No. KOTOR is not a shooter.

  
That was kinda my point.  Just because your character uses guns instead of swords and bows and arrows, does not automatically make it a shooter.

Do you even KNOW what is shooter?

Why yes, yes I do. Thanks for asking.

*Edit* If anything I'd say that ME:1's combat had more in common with KOTOR than a Shooter.

KOTOR had:

Rapid Shot (three evolutions)

Power Blast (three evolutions)

Sniper Shot (three evolutions)

Precise Shot (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies (three evolutions)

ME:1 had:

Overkill (three evolutions)

Carnage (three evolutions)

Marksman (three evolutions)

Assassination (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies...

Modifié par Dave666, 06 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[Kusy]

Mesina2 wrote...
You can but why you wouldn't?
Actually I don't know if anyone tried to beat 1 mission with combat without using any power at least once.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 06 mai 2011 - 09:17 .

[CroGamer002]

Dave666 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No. KOTOR is not a shooter.

  
That was kinda my point.  Just because your character uses guns instead of swords and bows and arrows, does not automatically make it a shooter.

Do you even KNOW what is shooter?

Why yes, yes I do. Thanks for asking.

That you should know that comparison with KOTOR is pretty stupid.



In Mass Effect, Gears of War, Call of Duty, Halo, Max Payne, etc. you have control over your gun. You can aim, you can shoot when and how( shift fire or go spray'n pray).

In KOTOR you can only shoot when you're in combat, when you're in combat you automatically shoot unless you move, you can only click on command how to shoot( if you unlock that power), it's turn based shooting, you can miss target even if is just 1 meter away from you.



Also shooting in KOTOR is NOT shooter game element but just another RPG "power"( like bows and arrows).

In ME1 shooting IS shooter game element since no RPG skill is involved for you to able to shoot.

Dave666 wrote...

*Edit* If anything I'd say that ME:1's combat had more in common with KOTOR than a Shooter.

KOTOR had:

Rapid Shot (three evolutions)

Power Blast (three evolutions)

Sniper Shot (three evolutions)

Precise Shot (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies (three evolutions)

ME:1 had:

Overkill (three evolutions)

Carnage (three evolutions)

Marksman (three evolutions)

Assassination (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies...

Those are just powers that make ME1 RPG too.

Modifié par Mesina2, 06 mai 2011 - 09:31 .

[marshalleck]

Dave666 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No. KOTOR is not a shooter.

  
That was kinda my point.  Just because your character uses guns instead of swords and bows and arrows, does not automatically make it a shooter.

Do you even KNOW what is shooter?

Why yes, yes I do. Thanks for asking.

*Edit* If anything I'd say that ME:1's combat had more in common with KOTOR than a Shooter.

KOTOR had:

Rapid Shot (three evolutions)

Power Blast (three evolutions)

Sniper Shot (three evolutions)

Precise Shot (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies (three evolutions)

ME:1 had:

Overkill (three evolutions)

Carnage (three evolutions)

Marksman (three evolutions)

Assassination (three evolutions)

and weapon proficiencies...

I'd say you don't know what qualifies a game as a shooter. It has nothing to do with special powers you can shoot off. 

In a shooter, the player controls whether targets are hit or not via the aiming reticle. In Mass Effect, the accuracy of the reticle was affected by a combination of weapon skill and base weapon accuracy. In ME2 they eliminated all the weapon skill accuracy aspects and made it straight up point-and-shoot, though the weapons still have a base accuracy. There were no dice rolls in ME1 or 2 to see if you hit or not, as in KOTOR and other traditional turn-based RPGs. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 mai 2011 - 09:32 .

[CroGamer002]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
You can but why you wouldn't?
Actually I don't know if anyone tried to beat 1 mission with combat without using any power at least once.

Beat ME2 without using ANY power on Insanity and I'll give you 5$!