119 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

marshalleck wrote...
I'd say you don't know what qualifies a game as a shooter. It has nothing to do with special powers you can shoot off. 

In a shooter, the player controls whether targets are hit or not via the aiming reticle. In Mass Effect, the accuracy of the reticle was affected by a combination of weapon skill and base weapon accuracy. In ME2 they eliminated all the weapon skill accuracy aspects and made it straight up point-and-shoot, though the weapons still have a base accuracy. There were no dice rolls in ME1 or 2 to see if you hit or not, as in KOTOR and other traditional turn-based RPGs. 

I'll admit, I'm in a grouchy mood (haven't slept) and I was being sarky.  I do own a couple of Shooters, not many though cause tbh, its not really my scene, tried a couple of Halo games and they're definately not for me, I quite like Singularity, though I have to be in the right mood for it, also played Dead Space, so yes, sarcasm aside, I do know what a Shooter is.

Modifié par Dave666, 06 mai 2011 - 09:37 .

[CroGamer002]

^Still you should be able to see that ME1 is also a shooter. True it has a lot of RPG elements but still it is a shooter as well.

[Dave666]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Still you should be able to see that ME1 is also a shooter. True it has a lot of RPG elements but still it is a shooter as well.

Agreed.

The thing is, while I would never say that ME:1's system was chategorically better than the Shooter system of ME:2, 'cause its all subjective, what I will say is that I vastly prefer ME:1's system and hope that future games if they have to have shooting aspects in them will have a similar (though definately improved) system. 

[Winterfly]

Dave666 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass
effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements
have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter
and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter,
they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a
rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3
will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effect was a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 2 was a Shooter with RPG bits thrown in.

Fixed that for you.

I play RPG's, I dont care much for shooters. Seemingly today you can toss in a story and you have a RPG? Wow.

If
Mass Effect 3 is a full shooter without unlinear options and bound in
chapters/levels I will not buy it. Then I probably get it used or
something. Clearly wont get a game proclaimed RPG turned fullfledged
shooter. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

I
was actually agreeing with you. I'm tired of hearing people claim that
ME:1 was a shooter because Shepard and co happened to use guns.  If
thats what makes something a shooter then apparently KOTOR was a
shooter...

Yeah...thanks mate  High five for agreeing

With that logic, Arcanum can be a top down shooter aswell since it got guns, Fallout 1 and 2 is also top down camera shooters.

javierabegazo wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effect was a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Mass Effect 2 was a Shooter with RPG bits thrown in.

Fixed that for you.

I play RPG's, I dont care much for shooters. Seemingly today you can toss in a story and you have a RPG? Wow.

If Mass Effect 3 is a full shooter without unlinear options and bound in chapters/levels I will not buy it. Then I probably get it used or something. Clearly wont get a game proclaimed RPG turned fullfledged shooter. 

The problem with the RPG elitism is that Many would argue that an RPG, no matter how bad the mechanics are, is a better game than any Shooter.

Deus Ex will always be better than Final Fantasy XII in my book because Deus Ex's dev team made a  fun game with an interesting story, and in the end, that's why we play games. to be entertained.

I don't care if you've got all the sacred cows of an RPG, if it's not fun to play, I'm not going to waste my time. Similarily, I don't care if you say that because I can't customize my helmet in Battlefield 3, it makes it an inferior game.

As long as the GAME ITSELF has a riveting story with memorable characters, I'm sure that I will love playing. There's much more artistry to games besides "Hmm, what amulet should I wear?" or "Should I take this +5 dmg over +5% Crit DMG ?"

There's the cinematics, the voice acting, the story, the graphic modeling, the digital acting, the audio fx, the MUSIC, I could go on and on.

In the end, remember that games are for entertainment, and as long as you are mentally engaged, the game has done it's job.

You clearly do not see the patterns in an RPG when you try to dumb it down with "Oh this amulet gives me t hat and this" Thats the American dungeons and dragons nonsense. I played European games focusing on other things then dungeoneering. And comparing a JRPG with a Western FPS with roleplay elements is like comparing football to ice hockey.

I might be mentally engaged in Killzone, sure as hell do not make it a RPG. its a freaking FPS. Also Borderlands from my understanding do not proclaim itself as an RPG but it clearly is a TON more of a RPG then Gears of War and has the freedom of exploration which Mass Effect lacks in the second installment, it is all tunnels leading to maybe 1-2 areas. You can barely explore anything you arrive too.

If you enjoy RPG more then shooters? Yes you will say that they are better then shooters. Like hockey fans say thats better then football/soccer. You have  to understand where Bioware came from and what they are doing now. It is making RPG fans bit disappointed. I clearly do not proclaim shooters lesser games, but I dont play shooters as much as RPG: I want a RPG; not a shooter in Mass Effect.

It clearly isn't a shooter yet. Cause you do not play a muscle mountain of doom aiming to kill everyone. Mass Effect is of yet a bit "feminine" as in there is no proper shooter with a female in the lead and in Mass Effect you can be a kick ass female. Gears of War oozes masculinity and is about blowing **** up, Army of Two? About the same. Really fun seeing how the epic end of the war against Reapers will end with "shooter influences more then we got now " All the damn repears gonna do a Sovereign and fight you on fot? 

[Winterfly]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Still you should be able to see that ME1 is also a shooter. True it has a lot of RPG elements but still it is a shooter as well.

It is not a god damn shooter. It is a RPG. Or is Borderlands a racing game aswell cause it got cars in it and you drive a lot?

It first and main focus is R P ****ing G. Roleplaying Game. I couldn't care less about the damn shooter focus now "oh we gonna improve the RPG ----and---- the shooter part" If I want a proper shoter I go play Army of Two, so please, focus on the ****ing story, the ****ing plot, character development, fluff and lore.

Let DICE and other companies under the wing of EA do the damn action games and stop trying to be what you aren't, Bioware. You failed miserbly with the Arrival who was just a god damn kill this and that DLC and you failed with Dragon Age 2 seemingly according to a ton of gamers.

[Gatt9]

Chances are, they don't even know what RPG means, and a lot of what Mass Effect trilogy has accomplished, no other RPG or video game for that matter has ever gotten close to. and so I tell them. "Dude, there's this game, called Mass Effect, its incredible."

No other RPG has "Accomplished" this,  because Mass Effect isn't an RPG.  An RPG requires a defined character who's success or failure is independent of your personal skill,  this is what the Role is.  Without that,  you cannot take on a Role,  only have an Avatar for your personal skills and beliefs.

The major problem is,  Bioware keeps marketing ME like an RPG,  which ME1 was relatively close to,  and ME2 wasn't at all an RPG.  If Bioware doesn't want the flak,  they should label their games correctly.  ME2 is a TPS,  like Gears of War.

Regardless,  Mass Effect hasn't "Accomplished" anything.  Final Fantasy 7 was much more an RPG than ME2,  and it sold to a heck'uva alot more people than ME2 did.  Same with Parasite Eve.  Even KotOR.

[Whereto]

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Ah and i never said it was a shooter, but ill forgive you for missinterpretation

[Winterfly]

Whereto wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Ah and i never said it was a shooter, but ill forgive you for missinterpretation

I didn't mean to scold you! ^^ I think I aimed it at someone else! 

[Whereto]

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Ah and i never said it was a shooter, but ill forgive you for missinterpretation

I didn't mean to scold you! ^^ I think I aimed it at someone else! 

But you must admit, if mass effect 3 can keep the rpg element and better the shooter to, it would be a better game for it or would you rather a total rpg with the under developed shooter of me1?

[Winterfly]

Whereto wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass effect is about the experience, both the shooter and the rpg elements have to come together to make it work. Mass effect 1 lacked the shooter and 2 lacked the rpg. As much as people want more rpg or more shooter, they really must look at why mass effect is great, its not because it's a rpg or a shooter, it's because it strives and hopefully in mass effect 3 will make the perfect combination of both

Mass Effects a ****ing RPG, not a shooter.

Ah and i never said it was a shooter, but ill forgive you for missinterpretation

I didn't mean to scold you! ^^ I think I aimed it at someone else! 

But you must admit, if mass effect 3 can keep the rpg element and better the shooter to, it would be a better game for it or would you rather a total rpg with the under developed shooter of me1?

Rather total RPG then a Army of  two with cut scenes and some dialog choices.

The shooting as iti s now is decent. I dont think Bioware can make a good shooter and I wonder how big a team Bioware have to make both RPG and the "shooter" part perfect. They clearly cannot make a decent action RPG in Dragon Age for example! 

[Chala]

Finally a positive thread!!!

[Whereto]

Mass Effect 3 will not turn into a pure shooter. I would prefer both the shooter and rpg elements to be beefed up. I always believe the better its shooter mechanics, the better you can make the rpg elements. For eg, you can have a hole tree devoted to stealth(probs not going to happen but its just a eg) and if you have very good shooter mechanics, you can really open up the rpg. Have different stealth abilities and equipment that makes a noticeable difference in the combat right there and then rather than mass effects very very slow changes that weren't noticeable till the later levels

[Winterfly]

Whereto wrote...

Mass Effect 3 will not turn into a pure shooter. I would prefer both the shooter and rpg elements to be beefed up. I always believe the better its shooter mechanics, the better you can make the rpg elements. For eg, you can have a hole tree devoted to stealth(probs not going to happen but its just a eg) and if you have very good shooter mechanics, you can really open up the rpg. Have different stealth abilities and equipment that makes a noticeable difference in the combat right there and then rather than mass effects very very slow changes that weren't noticeable till the later levels

I find it weird to make a RPG into a "shooter" Fully. How will it be better? Will it be less skill invovled more skill involved? Can someone good at shooters grab a ****ty gun and finish the game with it? Will levels matter? Will it be wrapped up into needing reflexes of a FPS nerd? What does this mean to be a "better" shooter? Jesus, Mass Effect 2 had ton of action. What to add? More cover moves? Melee? More fights? I dont need more fights. Everythings a good damn fight in all the damn loyality missions. Hi Kasumi lets sneak..oh wait no.

[Whereto]

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass Effect 3 will not turn into a pure shooter. I would prefer both the shooter and rpg elements to be beefed up. I always believe the better its shooter mechanics, the better you can make the rpg elements. For eg, you can have a hole tree devoted to stealth(probs not going to happen but its just a eg) and if you have very good shooter mechanics, you can really open up the rpg. Have different stealth abilities and equipment that makes a noticeable difference in the combat right there and then rather than mass effects very very slow changes that weren't noticeable till the later levels

I find it weird to make a RPG into a "shooter" Fully. How will it be better? Will it be less skill invovled more skill involved? Can someone good at shooters grab a ****ty gun and finish the game with it? Will levels matter? Will it be wrapped up into needing reflexes of a FPS nerd? What does this mean to be a "better" shooter? Jesus, Mass Effect 2 had ton of action. What to add? More cover moves? Melee? More fights? I dont need more fights. Everythings a good damn fight in all the damn loyality missions. Hi Kasumi lets sneak..oh wait no.

Well mass effect 3 wont be a full shooter so we can leave it at that, but better everything makes a better game

[Winterfly]

Whereto wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

Whereto wrote...

Mass Effect 3 will not turn into a pure shooter. I would prefer both the shooter and rpg elements to be beefed up. I always believe the better its shooter mechanics, the better you can make the rpg elements. For eg, you can have a hole tree devoted to stealth(probs not going to happen but its just a eg) and if you have very good shooter mechanics, you can really open up the rpg. Have different stealth abilities and equipment that makes a noticeable difference in the combat right there and then rather than mass effects very very slow changes that weren't noticeable till the later levels

I find it weird to make a RPG into a "shooter" Fully. How will it be better? Will it be less skill invovled more skill involved? Can someone good at shooters grab a ****ty gun and finish the game with it? Will levels matter? Will it be wrapped up into needing reflexes of a FPS nerd? What does this mean to be a "better" shooter? Jesus, Mass Effect 2 had ton of action. What to add? More cover moves? Melee? More fights? I dont need more fights. Everythings a good damn fight in all the damn loyality missions. Hi Kasumi lets sneak..oh wait no.

Well mass effect 3 wont be a full shooter so we can leave it at that, but better everything makes a better game

Well we see about that when it arrives. 

[Someone With Mass]

Is it really too much to ask for a bit of both?

[Winterfly]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Is it really too much to ask for a bit of both?

Yes, cause its already decent shooting. Do not need more.

[Someone With Mass]

Winterfly wrote...
Yes, cause its already decent shooting. Do not need more.

Well, too bad, because BioWare is already working on both.

[Winterfly]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Winterfly wrote...
Yes, cause its already decent shooting. Do not need more.

Well, too bad, because BioWare is already working on both.

Well good luck to them  We see how it works out. If its the epic RPG it been of yet I get a Collectors  

[starmine76]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Finally a positive thread!!!

which, per usuall, turned into a rather negative thread quite quickly

Modifié par starmine76, 06 mai 2011 - 03:05 .

[Leonia]

I almost think this thread deserves a sticky, so many of the other threads just turn into "Stop adding shooter elements to my RPG!" or "Stop adding RPG elements to my shooter!"

Can't we all just..get along? ME3 will be awesome, regardless of what category it falls under.

[camcon2100]

starmine76 wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Finally a positive thread!!!

which, per usuall, turned into a rather negative thread quite quickly

Do not worry us here understand and agree with your thread. The ignorant people will never ruin your original message, which is absolutely true. Mass Effect is an experience not a genre. People can be so blind to that sometimes and not realize they ruin their own experience with a game by trying to pigeon hole a game into a specific genre. That’s what people are angry about and it makes no sense. I never play games because they fit a particular genre. Look at Heavy Rain for instance. It was quick time events and if people tried to classify it in a genre they missed the developer’s intent. Games are staying away from genres and moving closer to brining experiences to the players!

[ianmcdonald]

starmine76 wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Finally a positive thread!!!

which, per usuall, turned into a rather negative thread quite quickly

As these things are known to go.

Anyway, I really appreciated your OP. It was well-written and level-headed. A rarity among the reactionary and hyperbolic doofuses that seem to think the sky is falling all over again everytime a little bit of information is released.

People get too caught up in genres. It's like music, and it's ridiculous. It's a video game and people need to remember that. They're getting so worked up ... over a video game.

Thanks, Starmine.

[AdmiralCheez]

starmine76 wrote...

Maybe its just a game. More than that, an experience.

*snipped for brevity*

I think if we argue too much over whether the game should be more shooter or more RPG, we may miss the point entirely. With each game, Bioware has gotten closer to making Mass Effect the way they imagined it, and making the best experience possible, regardless of genre.

[AngryFrozenWater]

This made me laugh... ME1 outsells any action game on Steam today. ME2 isn't even in the top 10. Obviously it has to do with EA's sales action today. It's still funny to see it up there.

http://store.steampo...om/genre/Action (click Top Sellers).

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 mai 2011 - 03:58 .