177 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

Metroidbum wrote...

People will see what they want to see. The fact that most of these people think that ME2 was a bad game when EVERY objective standard (critical reviews, player ratings, sales) disagrees with them says a lot in my opinion.

And what do 95% of those "objective standard" reviews (how is a review anything but subjective opinion, btw?) have in common? They almost universally pan ME2's weak story and reference it's lack of RPG features, but go on to say that the ACTION is great and the GAMEPLAY is fast-paced and enjoyable.

Which proves what? That more people like fast-paced action-oriented shooters than like RPGs, which is neither surprising nor relevant.

And honestly, if popularity is going to be the measuring stick of greatness, then Tranformers: Revenge of the Fallen is a cinematic masterpiece.

[wraith_05]

/popcorn

[Severyx]

It's like a game of telephone. See, after the announcement, the information was passed on to the forums (and twitter).

Look at the result!

[nelly21]

Smilietime wrote...

Excuse me. What is EA making that competes with Call of Duty? Answer: 1.Battlefield 3, 2. Whatever the Ex-infinity ward people are making. 3. Gears of war...

Do you really think that they are changing the Genre mid-development?

Mass Effect has several competing games. Skyrim, The Witcher 2, and especially Deus Ex. THAT IS WHO they are competing with, and that is part of why they moved the date of release.

Smilie, how dare you bring logic into this?

[Shadowbanner]

Metroidbum wrote...

People will see what they want to see. The fact that most of these people think that ME2 was a bad game when EVERY objective standard (critical reviews, player ratings, sales) disagrees with them says a lot in my opinion.

Hey, hey, hey let's not get carried away, shall we?

If you are referring to me, you will be hard pressed to quote me writing I dislike ME2. I found the game superb BUT no doubt as the sun comes out every day that RPG elements were removed, and at least for me they took away fun.

Whereas ME1 is a 9,5 or 10/10 (despite its glaring flaws: Mako missions, lifts, cluttered inventory, repetitive environments in side quests etc.) ME 2 is a 8,5 or 9/10 which, granted, is still very good or superb even.

What I'm afraid is that if they keep making it more of a Shooter (JRs consolidating trend and making it deeper thingy) and less of an RPG (contradicting what Casey said) then ME3 may be end up as a 7/10 for me on one of my fav IPs.

If I want a Shooter I go out and buy GoW or CoD. If I want an RPG I'll buy BioWare or Bethesda.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 03:08 .

[Mr.House]

Chud has also got information wrong in his own series. Should I remind people of when he thought Liara was Tali and she was a asexual, he said our choices would matter in ME2, that we could continue our romances in ME2(which is only true if you have LotSB) I can go on of the times Chud has lied.

[Severyx]

nelly21 wrote...

Smilietime wrote...

Excuse me. What is EA making that competes with Call of Duty? Answer: 1.Battlefield 3, 2. Whatever the Ex-infinity ward people are making. 3. Gears of war...

Do you really think that they are changing the Genre mid-development?

Mass Effect has several competing games. Skyrim, The Witcher 2, and especially Deus Ex. THAT IS WHO they are competing with, and that is part of why they moved the date of release.

Smilie, how dare you bring logic into this?

Logic dictates that logic must be brought into a debate about logical events.

Logically speaking.

[lolwut666]

Mr.House wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

People will see what they want to see. The fact that most of these people think that ME2 was a bad game when EVERY objective standard (critical reviews, player ratings, sales) disagrees with them says a lot in my opinion.

And most critical reviews have also stated the main story was poor and there was not alot of RPG elements.

"Most"? In your dreams.

Both plot and gameplay were widely praised.

If your talking about the ones that gave the game perfect scores, there review is useless since no game is perfect and ME2 has so many flaws.

Also if the gameplay was so loved, why did Christina even crirtitse her work, hmm?

What?

I'm sorry. I can't hear you from over here.

It'd help if you got off your high horse.

[Mr.House]

MDT1 wrote...

Well it was also said from BW that DA2 will not lack RPG elements compared to DAO.
But still I'm quite optimistic that ME3 as its clearly not rushed and made by different people.

It has Walters, that's enough reason to be scared.

[didymos1120]

Mr.House wrote...

Chud has also got information wrong in his own series. Should I remind people of when he thought Liara was Tali and she was a asexual, he said our choices would matter in ME2, that we could continue our romances in ME2(which is only true if you have LotSB) I can go on of the times Chud has lied.

OK, do go on.  I'm curious.

[nelly21]

Mr.House wrote...

Chud has also got information wrong in his own series. Should I remind people of when he thought Liara was Tali and she was a asexual, he said our choices would matter in ME2, that we could continue our romances in ME2(which is only true if you have LotSB) I can go on of the times Chud has lied.

Funny since none of these are lies.

Liara was Tali: simple mistake (perish the thought)
Asari: They are asexual
Choices matter: They did. My Council killing Shep didn't get the same reception my Council saving Shep did.
Romances continuing: They did

That these issues were not as gamechanging as you wanted them to be is a completely different issue.

[Shadowbanner]

leonia42 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Don't you think they already learned from that mistake? Why would they create another pure shooter to compete with one they have already made?
 

Exactly, thank you.

So they push this other Shooter (ME3) forward to the next fiscal year, where its needed. They already have Dice this year with BF3, no other shooters are required to shoot down (pun intended) CoD.

The delay makes perfect sense if...ME3 is now a Shooter.

.

It also makes sense.. that they are adding more RPG elements and trying to make both their current fans and the wider audience all warm and fuzzy. It's too early to speculate about just how shooter or just how RPG this game will be. But we can make guesses, sure.

Of course, yes. We are only guess-working here, only BW and EA know how the game is holding.

It only worries me that ME3 gets more CoD'zed and less RPG'zed.

If they add more RPG elements and they simultaneously improve shooter elements to appeal to CoD crowd, hats off to BW and bravo!

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 02:54 .

[Greatsultan]

[Mr.House]

nelly21 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Chud has also got information wrong in his own series. Should I remind people of when he thought Liara was Tali and she was a asexual, he said our choices would matter in ME2, that we could continue our romances in ME2(which is only true if you have LotSB) I can go on of the times Chud has lied.

Funny since none of these are lies.

Liara was Tali: simple mistake (perish the thought)
Asari: They are asexual
Choices matter: They did. My Council killing Shep didn't get the same reception my Council saving Shep did.
Romances continuing: They did

That these issues were not as gamechanging as you wanted them to be is a completely different issue.

*reads the list, headdesk*

[ExtremeOne]

I think some on here need to understand one simple thing EA owns Bioware and The Mass Effect Ip . They have every right to dictate what type of game ME 3 will be . So it can make them the most money. Bioware is not a indie developer like they were with ME 1 .

[MajesticJazz]

JKoopman wrote...

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

What BioWare says and what BioWare does are two entirely different things, and it's difficult to know precisely what to believe when they so often seem to contradict themselves; one moment they'll talk about how RPG elements are totally a renewed focus and are going to be so much more improved than in ME2 and the next they're talking about how non-combat stats and skills are "meaningless" and their head-honcho is saying how it's going to be re-focused on action and tailored to a larger market.

These things do not inspire confidence.

At this point, if BioWare wants to earn back the trust of those of us who were burned by ME2 (and DA2), they need to stop talking and start showing. Until then, I'll remain skeptical.

+1

Since Mass Effect 1 and followed up with DAO, DA2, and ME2, Bioware has not been consistent with what they say. So the whole thing comes down to trust.

If I tell you and I make bets on something and I keep losing the bets, thus, owing you money and If I keep on forgetting to give you that money, you will eventually lose trust in me. So when it is time to bet that $500 bid on who wins the Super Bowl and when I stand up and say "I'm in!" you'll just look at me and roll your eyes because you know I have a habit of not paying up when due.

Probably a bad analogy but it is just an example to show that Bioware in a  bluntly mannered way, cannot be trusted and this isn't just with ME.

Remember back in 2006/2007 when Bioware in almost every preview/interview talked about how they will constantly update and expand the ME1 universe through DLC all the way to the point where the DLC actually leads into the beginning events of ME2? Well we all saw how that turned out.

Remember when they constantly said that they have like 2 years worth of DLC ready to be released for DAO? Well we all saw how that happened.

I can go down the list but I rather not. My point is, whenever you're told many things will happen or will not happen and the exact opposite happens, you begin to lose trust in that individual over time. So when Bioware tells me that ME3 will have more RPG focus or will have a marketing campaign with less spoilers, I just laugh and move on.

Bless their heart, Bioware is such a great developer but their weakspot is backing up their word. With that being said, I have taken a "we'll see" approach to whatever Bioware says and I never take whatever they say as truth.

ME3 will be better in terms of RPG elements? We'll see.....

ME3's marketing will feature less spoilers? We'll see.....but I wouldn't know otherwise because come E3, my ass is out of here.

Star Wars: The Old Republic will release in 2011? We'll see.....

[Leonia]

Ok, I had to go get some popcorn and refill my coffee cup. Did I miss anything important?

[billybobjones]

JKoopman wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

People will see what they want to see. The fact that most of these people think that ME2 was a bad game when EVERY objective standard (critical reviews, player ratings, sales) disagrees with them says a lot in my opinion.

And what do 95% of those "objective standard" reviews (how is a review anything but subjective opinion, btw?) have in common? They almost universally pan ME2's weak story and reference it's lack of RPG features, but go on to say that the ACTION is great and the GAMEPLAY is fast-paced and enjoyable.

Which proves what? That more people like fast-paced action-oriented shooters than like RPGs, which is neither surprising nor relevant.

And honestly, if popularity is going to be the measuring stick of greatness, then Tranformers: Revenge of the Fallen is a cinematic masterpiece.

Critic reviews, player ratings, and sales are the only hard figures you can give when attempting to evaluate a game, with the first two being more important than the third.

Transformers, ROTF: 20% (AKA really bad) rating on rotten tomatoes. FAIL.

I read a good deal of those reviews when the game out. A few, but NOT all or even most panned the story, and almost NONE referenced the supposed lack of RPG features. That complaint is a curiosity of this board, nothing more. Your memory must be confused.

Video gamer: "perfect fusion of RPG and shooter genres.."
Xbox Magazine UK: " Both an astonishing RPG and confident shooter"
Gamereactor Sweden: "Unprecedented story telling, superb soundtrack, exciting characters and intense, varied battles."
Gamespy:" It's the way that Mass Effect 2 expands upon the narrative established
in the first game that marks a true breakthrough for interactive
storytelling.
"
Gameinformer: "The
narrative bounces between engaging mysteries and moments that attack
your conscience, all while pulling you deeper into a game universe than
you’ve ever been. BioWare’s scribes have not only created one of video
games’ greatest stories with Mass Effect 2, they have redefined how
stories are is told in this medium."
IGN: "It's incredibly personal while still retaining a sense of epic sweeping scale."


I could go on. The only reviewers to give the game below a 9 were the two guys on gamecritics.com, and I am still not convinced they aren't forum members in disguise.

[Alienmorph]

@ the OP

Apparently the problem is that there are still a lot of people who believe that BioWare MUST do only RPGs, so everything else they've done for them is a shameful pile of easy-to-play junk done to obtain money from the dumbest videogamers (wich are everyone who NOT like D&D like RPG games). Probably if ME2 didn't have a more simple kind of mechanics than ME1 now the RPG hipters will whine because ME1 too wasn't Rpgesque enough. I'm interested in the story and the characters and if ME was a game with Snes-like graphic and gameplay but still good in them still it will be one of my favourites saga, as I said several times. Also I've always found the "purist" kind of fans completely pointless, because everything changes with time and it can be influenced by unexpectable things. So, to cut it out, let the "core RPG" fans whine that BioWare after DA is officially dead and sh!t like that: if they're not able to enjoy the ME's universe without a dumb inventory system they are the ones who lost something, not us.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 06 mai 2011 - 02:58 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

nelly21 wrote...

Asari: They are asexual

This is a difficult thing to categorize: Asari are mono-gendered, thus terms like "bisexual" don't mean much, but "asexual" is the lack of a sexual drive, so it doesn't work either. This said, it's easy to imagine this was just a poor choice of words.

Romances continuing: They did

In an extremely cursory fashion: this claim gets by on a technicality. They continued, but you didn't actively pursue them beyond abstaining from other romancs in the hope of a kiss-and-make-up scene later on (thusfar only Liara has had one).

That these issues were not as gamechanging as you wanted them to be is a completely different issue.

^ For the choices thing, this is my answer. A lot of my choices showed up in some form or other in ME2. Many were e-mails, almost as many were cameos on Illium. A few actually mattered on a level that felt significant. It may not be as well-executed as we would like, but a "lie" it is not.

[nelly21]

Metroidbum wrote...

Critic reviews, player ratings, and sales are the only hard figures you can give when attempting to evaluate a game, with the first two being more important than the third.

Transformers, ROTF: 20% (AKA really bad) rating on rotten tomatoes. FAIL.

I read a good deal of those reviews when the game out. A few, but NOT all or even most panned the story, and almost NONE referenced the supposed lack of RPG features. That complaint is a curiosity of this board, nothing more. Your memory must be confused.

Video gamer: "perfect fusion of RPG and shooter genres.."
Xbox Magazine UK: " Both an astonishing RPG and confident shooter"
Gamereactor Sweden: "Unprecedented story telling, superb soundtrack, exciting characters and intense, varied battles."
Gamespy:" It's the way that Mass Effect 2 expands upon the narrative established
in the first game that marks a true breakthrough for interactive
storytelling.
"
Gameinformer: "The
narrative bounces between engaging mysteries and moments that attack
your conscience, all while pulling you deeper into a game universe than
you’ve ever been. BioWare’s scribes have not only created one of video
games’ greatest stories with Mass Effect 2, they have redefined how
stories are is told in this medium."
IGN: "It's incredibly personal while still retaining a sense of epic sweeping scale."


I could go on. The only reviewers to give the game below a 9 were the two guys on gamecritics.com, and I am still not convinced they aren't forum members in disguise.

NONE OF THIS IS VALID!!!!

THE ONLY GOOD REVIEW IS THIS www.randombitchynetguy.com!!!!!

[Shadowbanner]

nelly21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

If you misquote me and delete where I explain this...then we are unable to reason.

Hilarious of you to post this considering this is the exact same thing the rpg elitists are doing.

Huh? How so?

A guy at a share holder meeting says: We are tweaking the game to appeal to a wide audience.

Rpg Elitist hears: BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!! WE ARE SYSTEMATICALLY ANNIHILATING ALL RPG COMPONENTS!!!!

Casey Hudson says: We will be expanding on the rpg elements to find a balance between ME 1 and 2

Rpg elitist hears: THEY ARE GETTING RID OF RPG ELEMENTS!!!! THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!

I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't an RPG elitist, but whatever.

I take and agree with you IF there were no precedents, granted.

But I've just finished playing an awful game called DA2 which, although made by a different team, is a BW/EA RPG game. And it was streamlined to appeal to that same CoD crowd JR is mentioning -yet- again. He really must have wet dreams with the CoD guys.

And we also have ME2 in which RPG elements were removed detracting from enjoyment in my case. If you thoroughly enjoyed ME2, I'm glad for you. But I and a legion of others happened to enjoy it less than ME1 because of the stripping down of RPG elements. Maybe that does makes me an RPG elitist, I dunno. I'm just a console-player who likes RPGs, guilty as charged of liking BW games. I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 03:02 .

[Maria Caliban]

nelly21 wrote...

Asari: They are asexual

They might be. Somehow a well-educated race that's had advanced space technology for millennia is confused as to how exactly its reproduction works.

[Leonia]

Careful, Nelly, you're going to break the sarcasm metres.

[Mr.House]

Metroidbum wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

People will see what they want to see. The fact that most of these people think that ME2 was a bad game when EVERY objective standard (critical reviews, player ratings, sales) disagrees with them says a lot in my opinion.

And what do 95% of those "objective standard" reviews (how is a review anything but subjective opinion, btw?) have in common? They almost universally pan ME2's weak story and reference it's lack of RPG features, but go on to say that the ACTION is great and the GAMEPLAY is fast-paced and enjoyable.

Which proves what? That more people like fast-paced action-oriented shooters than like RPGs, which is neither surprising nor relevant.

And honestly, if popularity is going to be the measuring stick of greatness, then Tranformers: Revenge of the Fallen is a cinematic masterpiece.

Critic reviews, player ratings, and sales are the only hard figures you can give when attempting to evaluate a game, with the first two being more important than the third.

Transformers, ROTF: 20% (AKA really bad) rating on rotten tomatoes. FAIL.

I read a good deal of those reviews when the game out. A few, but NOT all or even most panned the story, and almost NONE referenced the supposed lack of RPG features. That complaint is a curiosity of this board, nothing more. Your memory must be confused.

Video gamer: "perfect fusion of RPG and shooter genres.."
Xbox Magazine UK: " Both an astonishing RPG and confident shooter"
Gamereactor Sweden: "Unprecedented story telling, superb soundtrack, exciting characters and intense, varied battles."
Gamespy:" It's the way that Mass Effect 2 expands upon the narrative established
in the first game that marks a true breakthrough for interactive
storytelling.
"
Gameinformer: "The
narrative bounces between engaging mysteries and moments that attack
your conscience, all while pulling you deeper into a game universe than
you’ve ever been. BioWare’s scribes have not only created one of video
games’ greatest stories with Mass Effect 2, they have redefined how
stories are is told in this medium."
IGN: "It's incredibly personal while still retaining a sense of epic sweeping scale."


I could go on. The only reviewers to give the game below a 9 were the two guys on gamecritics.com, and I am still not convinced they aren't forum members in disguise.

Greatest story and ME2 don't go together. lol