177 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

This is a difficult thing to categorize: Asari are mono-gendered, thus terms like "bisexual" don't mean much, but "asexual" is the lack of a sexual drive, so it doesn't work either. This said, it's easy to imagine this was just a poor choice of words.

OK, no.  That's one meaning of "asexual".  There are two others:

a. A species which lacks sexes entirely (like bacteria)
b. Not using sexual reproduction.

The asari are parthenogenetic, and that is an asexual mode of reproduction.  And no, exhibiting sexual behaviors does not make it sexual reproduction, as New Mexico Whiptails (aka the "lesbian lizards") can attest.  We're talking about the fusing of specialized gametes.

That said, I do in fact think Casey was trying to say "they don't count because they aren't really girls", which is of course nonsense.

Sorry, this is just a personal pet ME peeve.

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 mai 2011 - 03:09 .

[Shadowbanner]

Smilietime wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Don't you think they already learned from that mistake? Why would they create another pure shooter to compete with one they have already made?
 

Exactly, thank you.

So they push this other Shooter (ME3) forward to the next fiscal year, where its needed. They already have Dice this year with BF3, no other shooters are required to shoot down (pun intended) CoD.

The delay makes perfect sense if...ME3 is now a Shooter.

Excuse me. What is EA making that competes with Call of Duty? Answer: 1.Battlefield 3, 2. Whatever the Ex-infinity ward people are making. 3. Gears of war...

Do you really think that they are changing the Genre mid-development?

Mass Effect has several competing games. Skyrim, The Witcher 2, and especially Deus Ex. THAT IS WHO they are competing with, and that is part of why they moved the date of release.

What's changed with ME2, and ME3,  taking something that Mass Effect 1 didn't do very well, and making it as good as the rest of the game. They are going to make more money, because they are going to appeal to two markets fully, not cutting OUT one market. More interesing and interactive story than Uncharted, with your own team of customized Badasses, and sevaral times more combat options. More fun minute to minute gameplay than Deus Ex...

If that's true I'm all for it!

As long as it still is an RPG, no RPGlite mega Shooter thingy.

[Leonia]

Also, I was unaware that DA2 was suppose to appeal to the CoD crowd and also unsure what CoD has to do with ME3. I will concede that ME2 didn't have a great story going on but it's still considered an RPG (an action-RPG by some).

[Severyx]

Made this up just for you guys. Feel free to distribute.

[Mr.House]

Ew Sheploo.

[Smilietime]

Shadowbanner wrote...

Hey, hey, hey let's not get carried away, shall we?

If you are referring to me, you will be hard pressed to quote me writing I dislike ME2. I found the game superb BUT no doubt as the sun comes out every day that RPG elements were removed, and at least for me they took away fun.

Whereas ME1 is a 9,5 or 10/10 (despite its glaring flaws: Mako missions, lifts, cluttred inventory etc.) ME 2 is a 8,5 or 9/10 which, granted, is still very good or superb even.

What I'm afraid is that if they keep making it more of a Shooter (JRs consolidating trend and making it deeper thingy) and less of an RPG (contradicting what Casey said) then ME3 may be end up as a 7/10 for me on one of my fav IPs.

If I want a Shooter I go out and buy GoW or CoD. If I want an RPG I'll buy BioWare or Bethesda.

I think I see what you are saying. Still, they have said very specific things about what they are improving. And they are Definately Not taking out the story choices. Mass Effect 2's story choices were limited, because it was the middle part of the story. I am personally excited that I won't only get a 4% power damage bonus for my armor piece, and that there will be lots more weapon options.

Suits care about money, and when an Advertizing-suit is making a pitch to an Investor-suit, your going to tell them "I'm gonna make more money for you!"

Meanwhile, the developers themselves, aren't being completely silent.

Modifié par Smilietime, 06 mai 2011 - 03:15 .

[ExtremeOne]

Shadowbanner wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

If you misquote me and delete where I explain this...then we are unable to reason.

Hilarious of you to post this considering this is the exact same thing the rpg elitists are doing.

Huh? How so?

A guy at a share holder meeting says: We are tweaking the game to appeal to a wide audience.

Rpg Elitist hears: BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!! WE ARE SYSTEMATICALLY ANNIHILATING ALL RPG COMPONENTS!!!!

Casey Hudson says: We will be expanding on the rpg elements to find a balance between ME 1 and 2

Rpg elitist hears: THEY ARE GETTING RID OF RPG ELEMENTS!!!! THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!

I guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't an RPG elitist, but whatever.

I take and agree with you IF there were no precedents, granted.

But I've just finished playing an awful game called DA2 which, although made by a different team, is a BW/EA RPG game. And it was streamlined to appeal to that same CoD crowd JR is mentioning -yet- again. He really must have wet dreams with the CoD guys.

And we also have ME2 in which RPG elements were removed detracting from enjoyment in my case. If you thoroughly enjoyed ME2, I'm glad for you. But I and a legion of others happened to enjoy it less than ME1 because of the stripping down of RPG elements. Maybe that does makes me an RPG elitist, I dunno. I'm just a console-player who likes RPGs, guilty as charged of liking BW games. I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?

   



I am so sick of hearing you rpg gamer elitsit act like Mass Effect 2 was a bad game . Who gives a dam if it has any rpg in it at this point . It corrected Mass Effect 1's completly ****** poor shooting and biotics mechaincs. It also got rid of stupid ass inventory garbage crap . If you want your rpg game go f**king play Fallout or  Skyrim . Mass Effect 2 sold more than Mass Effect 1 and it was a better game .  Either deal with the change or find a new rpg to play simple as that 

[nelly21]

Shadowbanner wrote...

1 ) But I've just finished playing an awful game called DA2 which, although made by a different team, is a BW/EA RPG game. And it was streamlined to appeal to that same CoD crowd JR is mentioning -yet- again. He really must have wet dreams with the CoD guys.

2) And we also have ME2 in which RPG elements were removed detracting from enjoyment in my case. If you thoroughly enjoyed ME2, I'm glad for you. But I and a legion of others happened to enjoy it less than ME1 because of the stripping down of RPG elements. Maybe that does makes me an RPG elitist, I dunno. I'm just a console-player who likes RPGs, guilty as charged of liking BW games. I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?

1) Do you have wet dreams about the CoD crowd? Riccitello didn't mention CoD once in the shareholders meeting and yet you are completely fixated on it. A little introspection would do you some good. I won't even touch the Da 2 thing since we are discussing ME 3. I liked it. I'm sorry you didn't.

2) First of all, you aren't a legion. Vocal minorities aren't legion. If you were, ME 2 would have bombed. As for the rpg elements being removed, yeah some were. I would argue it made the game better.

Finally, "I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?"

Let me introduce you to Majesticjazz

[AngryFrozenWater]

Shadowbanner wrote...

Yes we did hear Cassidy saying they'll add more RPG elements. Bravo!

BUT two days later in comes EA's boss, JR, saying that ME will now "address to a larger market opportunity" and will thus be delayed to the 1Q of 2012 = we are going to make it more of a shooter simplifying things to appeal to mainstream CoD boys and girls. Shooter-meets-RPG thingy, capisce?

There's a little game of BioWare called Dragon Age 2, that came out over a month ago, which forums are, to put it mildly, in a perma state of civil war because the fanbase is split in two sides. The reviews haven't been particularly hot either, specially gamer reviews, not professional reviewers like UK's PC Gamer's 94% best...game...evar.

So the good news that ME3 would be delayed had a very warm  & welcome reception across the board. Every poster here and his mother were happy and felt relieved that ME would be spared from DA2's ill fate.

But in comes JR two days later to spew before his shareholders, who are freeakin' out after having lost 400 million USD in the last year, that they are going to tweak ME's gameplay to attract a broader fanbase ( > $$$$$$) which is more into shooters (The CoD crowd).

It's no secret EA hates the guts of Activision and wants BF3 to oust CODMW once and for all placing BF3 as King of all Shooters. Everyone knows the BIG money is in the CoD crowd. The numbers are just crazy compared to any other game out there, specially niche RPGs like DA and company. RPGs are meant to be niche! Surprise!!

So EA wants ME to be closer to a shooter which necessarily implies that ME needs RPG elements to be stripped off. The less RPG and the more Shooter, the more customers. Good for EA and stakeholders, awful for RPG-lovers like myself. That's why all reviewers and their mothers are freaking out with JRs little speach, and rightly so if you like RPGs.

Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head. And to battle the critique marketing invents phrases like "enriching the role-playing aspects of the game" which actually mean that the game will be stripped from even more RPG features. If I really want to play a shooter than I rather play a real one.

[ExtremeOne]

Smilietime wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

Hey, hey, hey let's not get carried away, shall we?

If you are referring to me, you will be hard pressed to quote me writing I dislike ME2. I found the game superb BUT no doubt as the sun comes out every day that RPG elements were removed, and at least for me they took away fun.

Whereas ME1 is a 9,5 or 10/10 (despite its glaring flaws: Mako missions, lifts, cluttred inventory etc.) ME 2 is a 8,5 or 9/10 which, granted, is still very good or superb even.

What I'm afraid is that if they keep making it more of a Shooter (JRs consolidating trend and making it deeper thingy) and less of an RPG (contradicting what Casey said) then ME3 may be end up as a 7/10 for me on one of my fav IPs.

If I want a Shooter I go out and buy GoW or CoD. If I want an RPG I'll buy BioWare or Bethesda.

I think I see what you are saying. Still, they have said very specific things about what they are improving. And they are Definately Not taking out the story choices. Mass Effect 2's story choices were limited, because it was the middle part of the story. I am personally excited that I won't only get a 4% power damage bonus for my armor piece, and that there will be lots more weapon options.

Suits care about money, and when a suit is making a pitch to an investor, your going to tell them "I'm gonna make more money for you!"

Meanwhile, the developers are talking to us...

   


Oh yeah so a CEO is just going to talk sh*t to investors and EA share holders with out his words holding any action yeah right . If a CEO ever did that in company that CEO would not be there long. leiing to share holders and investors about ME 3 being made for wider audience is something you do not do . 

[Shadowbanner]

leonia42 wrote...

Ok, I had to go get some popcorn and refill my coffee cup. Did I miss anything important?

Nope, everyone pretty much remains entrenched in their own positions.

The new mantra apparently is to adopt the "we'll see..." approach vs BWs marketing claims.

Other than that, nothing much. Coffee good?

Friday, pizza tonight.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 03:16 .

[wraith_05]

I am so sick of hearing you rpg gamer elitsit act like Mass Effect 2 was a bad game . Who gives a dam if it has any rpg in it at this point . It corrected Mass Effect 1's completly ****** poor shooting and biotics mechaincs. It also got rid of stupid ass inventory garbage crap . If you want your rpg game go f**king play Fallout or  Skyrim . Mass Effect 2 sold more than Mass Effect 1 and it was a better game .  Either deal with the change or find a new rpg to play simple as that

Everyone knows that RPG games are only played by smart people, jeeeez.

[Someone With Mass]

Alienmorph wrote...

@ the OP

Apparently the problem is that there are still a lot of people who believe that BioWare MUST do only RPGs, so everything else they've done for them is a shameful pile of easy-to-play junk done to obtain money from the dumbest videogamers (wich are everyone who NOT like D&D like RPG games). Probably if ME2 didn't have a more simple kind of mechanics than ME1 now the RPG hipters will whine because ME1 too wasn't Rpgesque enough. I'm interested in the story and the characters and if ME was a game with Snes-like graphic and gameplay but still good in them still it will be one of my favourites saga, as I said several times. Also I've always found the "purist" kind of fans completely pointless, because everything changes with time and it can be influenced by unexpectable things. So, to cut it out, let the "core RPG" fans whine that BioWare after DA is officially dead and sh!t like that: if they're not able to enjoy the ME's universe without a dumb inventory system they are the ones who lost something, not us.

This.

And if you don't like the changes, there's always the option to not play it. 
We who are looking forward to play Mass Effect 3 because of its story and characters, and NOT because of something as trivial and stupid as that lame inventory system or those few stats that really don't mean sh!t will certainly not miss your RPG elitist whining.

But go on and keep bit**ing about how EA is turning ME3 into a CoD-esk game (which anyone who can distinguish games of different genres that aren't RPGs from another can see is total BS) if it helps you sleep at night.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 06 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[ExtremeOne]

wraith_05 wrote...

I am so sick of hearing you rpg gamer elitsit act like Mass Effect 2 was a bad game . Who gives a dam if it has any rpg in it at this point . It corrected Mass Effect 1's completly ****** poor shooting and biotics mechaincs. It also got rid of stupid ass inventory garbage crap . If you want your rpg game go f**king play Fallout or  Skyrim . Mass Effect 2 sold more than Mass Effect 1 and it was a better game .  Either deal with the change or find a new rpg to play simple as that

Everyone knows that RPG games are only played by smart people, jeeeez.

    



Oh I am sorry do you rpg gamers feel hurt because Bioware might be wanting sh*t can the notion they can only make rp games and nothing else.  

[rolson00]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

They're disappointed because it isn't an RPG like Baldur's Gate or some other RPG that was popular about twenty years ago.

[sarcasm]Because changes are bad. Sticking with the same formula forever without trying to do anything new is good.[/sarcasm]

This

ur talking rubbish retro is the only way to go  "so screw you guy ima going home"(my profile that is)

[Embrosil]

leonia42 wrote...

Don't you think they already learned from that mistake? Why would they create another pure shooter to compete with one they have already made?

Look, I hate looking like an EA supporter here (because I'm not), but they are not the source of every problem here either. It's always fun to blame the big-bad-evil corporation that only sees a profit margin but that doesn't mean they are fully responsible for everything.

I'm also tired of the "DA2 sucked so ME3 will follow the same routine" arguments. Different teams, different franchises. FWIW, I quit enjoye DA2 and the changes that were made to Origins so there you go.

No, I do not think they have learned at all. And yes, I am also the one of those believing "DA2 sucked so ME3 will follow the same routine".  I would be more than happy if I am proven wrong, but somehow I think I will be right.

Your logic is funny as it tells me, if a plane crash, you will happily board the next one of the same company, because different pilot, different experience? I do not think so.

Modifié par Embrosil, 06 mai 2011 - 03:22 .

[Mr.House]

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am so sick of hearing you rpg gamer elitsit act like Mass Effect 2 was a bad game . Who gives a dam if it has any rpg in it at this point . It corrected Mass Effect 1's completly ****** poor shooting and biotics mechaincs. It also got rid of stupid ass inventory garbage crap . If you want your rpg game go f**king play Fallout or  Skyrim . Mass Effect 2 sold more than Mass Effect 1 and it was a better game .  Either deal with the change or find a new rpg to play simple as that 

Wow, two face much? Yesterday you where like AMG ME2 SUCKED ASS, now your like OMG ME2 HATERS SUCK ME2 IS TEH AWESOME!!!!

[Smilietime]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh yeah so a CEO is just going to talk sh*t to investors and EA share holders with out his words holding any action yeah right . If a CEO ever did that in company that CEO would not be there long. leiing to share holders and investors about ME 3 being made for wider audience is something you do not do . 

Not lying. Mass Effect 1 Was technically both a shooter, and an RPG.

The shooter market got better served with Mass Effect 2.

The shooter market will be even better served with Mass Effect 3.

But the cut-scenes, and character development, that improved too.  And Mass Effect 3 will add more customization options for weapons, and more ways to evolve our skills...

[Kasper Finknottle]

Walker White wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Hardcore Hunger: You have to wait between missions if you use biotics because you need to have a nap and a meal. Make sure you get those extra daily recommended biotic calories!

There was this PC RPG in the 90s -- Realms of Arkania: Star Trail -- that worked exactly like this.  Your characters had to eat, and in the beginning, you could never buy enough food to make long trips.  So you spent more of the game foraging for food than fighting or exploring.

Plus the way that eating worked was infuriating.  Having food in your inventory was not enough.  When your character got hungry, you had to open up the inventory and drag the food to the lips of your "paper doll".  You had to do this for each character in the party several times a day.

That game encapsulated everything that I hated about old RPGs.

Ultima 7 & Serpent Isle did it better though, soon on in you could magically conjour up food. I still packed a full backpack of fish n' chips though.

One of the better RP moments though was when you headed into the mountains and colder climates, you had do don fur hats, cloaks etc

I never found that it got in the way of the main gameplay though.

[Dave666]

hmmm....interesting...

I've read through this entire thread and I couldn't help but notice something, there seems to be quite a lot of Elitism going on, but not from RPG fans.

[Leonia]

Embrosil wrote...

O.K. So your logic tells me, if a plane crash, you will happily board the next one of the same company, because different pilot, different experience? I do not think so.

If it's a company I have supported for long time, sure I'll give them another chance. Especially if it's an affordable and comfortable experience that I can't get from elsewhere. Besides, how often do plane crashes happen?

[Shadowbanner]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

This is a difficult thing to categorize: Asari are mono-gendered, thus terms like "bisexual" don't mean much, but "asexual" is the lack of a sexual drive, so it doesn't work either. This said, it's easy to imagine this was just a poor choice of words.

OK, no.  That's one meaning of "asexual".  There are two others:

a. A species which lacks sexes entirely (like bacteria)
b. Not using sexual reproduction.

The asari are parthenogenetic, and that is an asexual mode of reproduction.  And no, exhibiting sexual behaviors does not make it sexual reproduction, as New Mexico Whiptails (aka the "lesbian lizards") can attest.  We're talking about the fusing of specialized gametes.

That said, I do in fact think Casey was trying to say "they don't count because they aren't really girls", which is of course nonsense.

Sorry, this is just a personal pet ME peeve.

Lol Geeez.

Remind me to NEVER argue with you.

[Embrosil]

leonia42 wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

O.K. So your logic tells me, if a plane crash, you will happily board the next one of the same company, because different pilot, different experience? I do not think so.

If it's a company I have supported for long time, sure I'll give them another chance. Especially if it's an affordable and comfortable experience that I can't get from elsewhere. Besides, how often do plane crashes happen?

How often does a company making the best RPGs in the world releases two ****ty games in a row?

Modifié par Embrosil, 06 mai 2011 - 03:23 .

[wraith_05]

Oh I am sorry do you rpg gamers feel hurt because Bioware might be wanting sh*t can the notion they can only make rp games and nothing else

RPG games that give you choices to the extent of "I might have a panic attack, there are so many options," are some of the best games made. ME2, while delicious to my taste, lacked this feeling. If felt like, here is a list of guns you can use, now shoot. Oh, also, here is a 4% upgrade to health.

[ExtremeOne]

Mr.House wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
I am so sick of hearing you rpg gamer elitsit act like Mass Effect 2 was a bad game . Who gives a dam if it has any rpg in it at this point . It corrected Mass Effect 1's completly ****** poor shooting and biotics mechaincs. It also got rid of stupid ass inventory garbage crap . If you want your rpg game go f**king play Fallout or  Skyrim . Mass Effect 2 sold more than Mass Effect 1 and it was a better game .  Either deal with the change or find a new rpg to play simple as that 

Wow, two face much? Yesterday you where like AMG ME2 SUCKED ASS, now your like OMG ME2 HATERS SUCK ME2 IS TEH AWESOME!!!!

    





Mass Effect 2 from a story point yes I have issues with. But from a game play point  Mass Effect 2 is a very fun and enjoyable game much better than ME 1 's gameplay.