177 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowbanner]

nelly21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

1 ) But I've just finished playing an awful game called DA2 which, although made by a different team, is a BW/EA RPG game. And it was streamlined to appeal to that same CoD crowd JR is mentioning -yet- again. He really must have wet dreams with the CoD guys.

2) And we also have ME2 in which RPG elements were removed detracting from enjoyment in my case. If you thoroughly enjoyed ME2, I'm glad for you. But I and a legion of others happened to enjoy it less than ME1 because of the stripping down of RPG elements. Maybe that does makes me an RPG elitist, I dunno. I'm just a console-player who likes RPGs, guilty as charged of liking BW games. I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?

1) Do you have wet dreams about the CoD crowd? Riccitello didn't mention CoD once in the shareholders meeting and yet you are completely fixated on it. A little introspection would do you some good. I won't even touch the Da 2 thing since we are discussing ME 3. I liked it. I'm sorry you didn't.

2) First of all, you aren't a legion. Vocal minorities aren't legion. If you were, ME 2 would have bombed. As for the rpg elements being removed, yeah some were. I would argue it made the game better.

Finally, "I really cannot imagine anyone entertaining the idea that ME1 was the typical game of RPG purists, can you?"

Let me introduce you to Majesticjazz

1) I don't have wet dreams with them, no. I'm one of them. Kinda hard to have wet dreams with yourself.

It's true he did not specifically mention them, but it wasn't required either. He's made enough fuss already this year spamming mags with how great BF3 will be and what little Activision can do against Dice's masterpiece. He's completely obsessed with this market segment. More so when EA lost 400 millions USD and Activision can't stop counting the piles of money rolling in. But that's another story...

2) Legion its just an expression, don't get so worked over it. ME2 was undeniably both a commercial and critically-acclaimed success. I've never denied the obvious. You'll be hard pressed to find a quote of mine saying that.

But likewise its also fair to acknowledge many (legion, whatever) RPG fans did not like the removal of RPG elements. We are seeing many of them contributing to this very thread so I'm not sure if we are such a vocal "minority" as you would have us. The afore doesn't imply me rating ME2 as a 4/10 for example, it implies detracting from fun, RPG joy. I woudl still rate ME2 as an 8,5 or 9/10. Less than ME1 at any rate, as less was the fun.

Likewise I will not refute that many of the changes redunded in a more streamlined gameplay (i.e. inventory management, improved combat mechanics) which made the gameplay more enjoyable as a whole, granted.

Sorry, never heard of Majesticjazz.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 04:11 .

[Embrosil]

leonia42 wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

O.K. So your logic tells me, if a plane crash, you will happily board the next one of the same company, because different pilot, different experience? I do not think so.

If it's a company I have supported for long time, sure I'll give them another chance. Especially if it's an affordable and comfortable experience that I can't get from elsewhere. Besides, how often do plane crashes happen?

How often does a company making the best RPGs in the world releases two ****ty games in a row?

I haven't experienced any of Bioware's ****ty games, as you so call them. That's just like, your opinion man. Also, different teams make different games.

I can't really figure out which two games you are referring to.  I am guessing one is DA2 (of which I enjoyed).

Then good for you. I could not believe my eyes and had to check that it really is a Bioware logo on the box. 

[candidate88766]

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware released two ****ty games in a row? Only one I know that was recent was ME2.

You mean the Mass Effect 2 that got over 40 'perfect' reviews and is currently ranked 12 out of every game on Metacritic? The site that brings together the reviews of people whose job it is to know what makes a game good? You may not like it, but overwhelming opnion is that it is not in the least bit '****ty'.

[Severyx]

Here we go, buckle up! We're going through the next loop in the rollercoaster!

[Mr.House]

candidate88766 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware released two ****ty games in a row? Only one I know that was recent was ME2.

You mean the Mass Effect 2 that got over 40 'perfect' reviews and is currently ranked 12 out of every game on Metacritic? The site that brings together the reviews of people whose job it is to know what makes a game good? You may not like it, but overwhelming opnion is that it is not in the least bit '****ty'.

To paid reviwers maybe, to me the only good things about ME2 is the music, graphics,gameplay, Miri, Thane, Samara, Mordin, Legion, Overlord and LotSB, that's it.

[Shadowbanner]

Smilietime wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

Hey, hey, hey let's not get carried away, shall we?

If you are referring to me, you will be hard pressed to quote me writing I dislike ME2. I found the game superb BUT no doubt as the sun comes out every day that RPG elements were removed, and at least for me they took away fun.

Whereas ME1 is a 9,5 or 10/10 (despite its glaring flaws: Mako missions, lifts, cluttred inventory etc.) ME 2 is a 8,5 or 9/10 which, granted, is still very good or superb even.

What I'm afraid is that if they keep making it more of a Shooter (JRs consolidating trend and making it deeper thingy) and less of an RPG (contradicting what Casey said) then ME3 may be end up as a 7/10 for me on one of my fav IPs.

If I want a Shooter I go out and buy GoW or CoD. If I want an RPG I'll buy BioWare or Bethesda.

I think I see what you are saying. Still, they have said very specific things about what they are improving. And they are Definately Not taking out the story choices. Mass Effect 2's story choices were limited, because it was the middle part of the story. I am personally excited that I won't only get a 4% power damage bonus for my armor piece, and that there will be lots more weapon options.

Suits care about money, and when an Advertizing-suit is making a pitch to an Investor-suit, your going to tell them "I'm gonna make more money for you!"

Meanwhile, the developers themselves, aren't being completely silent.

Well I guess that's why I felt a letdown cause I'd been following Casey's interviews. If the RPG elements are there I'll be another happy customer.

[candidate88766]

Mr.House wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware released two ****ty games in a row? Only one I know that was recent was ME2.

You mean the Mass Effect 2 that got over 40 'perfect' reviews and is currently ranked 12 out of every game on Metacritic? The site that brings together the reviews of people whose job it is to know what makes a game good? You may not like it, but overwhelming opnion is that it is not in the least bit '****ty'.

To paid reviwers maybe, to me the only good things about ME2 is the music, graphics,gameplay, Miri, Thane, Samara, Mordin, Legion, Overlord and LotSB, that's it.

Firstly, what is more likely - that EA/Bioware paid off 98 independant reviewers all willing to risk their job by taking a bribe, or that they enjoyed the game and thought it worthy of a good mark?

Also, if you like the music, graphics, gameplay and half the man characters how can you possibly label it as '****ty'? Average at worst, but you seem to like most of the major things about it so labelling it as '****ty* seems hypocritical.

[Sparrow44]

Considering one of the main things BioWare announced in regards to gameplay in ME3 was the addition of 'richer RPG features' and this was months ago and they're saying it again in the recent magazines, I think some people here really need to stop getting on their high horses and just wait 'till more info is announced.

And also E3 is roughly a month away so the wait isn't something to worry about.

[wraith_05]

I hope this discussion continues until I have to attend class. I really enjoy spending my time on the interwebz during lectures.

[didymos1120]

Mr.House wrote...

To paid reviwers maybe, to me the only good things about ME2 is the music, graphics,gameplay, Miri, Thane, Samara, Mordin, Legion, Overlord and LotSB, that's it.

No, go look at the user scores on various sites. They're all way up there too, and generally higher than or equal to ME1's user ratings.

[Savber100]

Mr.House wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware released two ****ty games in a row? Only one I know that was recent was ME2.

You mean the Mass Effect 2 that got over 40 'perfect' reviews and is currently ranked 12 out of every game on Metacritic? The site that brings together the reviews of people whose job it is to know what makes a game good? You may not like it, but overwhelming opnion is that it is not in the least bit '****ty'.

To paid reviwers maybe, to me the only good things about ME2 is the music, graphics,gameplay, Miri, Thane, Samara, Mordin, Legion, Overlord and LotSB, that's it.

THIS is the type of bullcrap we need to stop.

If a reviewer thinks ME2 is good, it must mean that they were PAID by EA/Bioware to say so! In fact, anyone who thinks ME2 is a mindless drone!

Seriously, reviews and opinions are SUBJECTIVE. But when more that 90% of your reviews indicate that a game is great... Chances are is the game is good. <_<

[Evercrow]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

 It's amazing how people can get so worked up on labels and on marketing talk. Of course the EA guy will say ME3 appeals to a larger market, it's his damn job, what the hell should they do, tell the executives that no, sorry, our goal is to sell less because we are cool like that? Try to have a minimum of perspective here people.

I also grow really tired of all the talk about keeping the RPG in Mass Effect. The series never was a good RPG. The first game had a flawed dialog system (and so does the second, even if it's a bit improved, but it needs a looking at imo), the inventory was bloated and made no sense in-universe (apparently every single person in the galaxys runs around with better equipement that super-badass space captain Shepard) and the level up system, after level 10, made me do 1% more damage per level. Yay? Point is, while ME1 did have lots of RPG elemrnts, they were neither strong nor essential, and that's why I am not opposed to *gasp* streamlining them. The Mass Effect series being a shooter with light RPG elements is perfect for me. Of course, more customization, more ways to play and more meaningful stats are always welcome to differentiate it from other shooter, and it's what we have been promised so far, so...

And to the people bringing up DA2, that game had less developement time, suffered much more from lack of polish than from lack of RPG-ness, was made by a different team, and sold much less than it's predecessor (and I am certain that last point was at least partially why they pushed the released date when they saw that such an unfinished product didn't sell very well).

This.Pretty much spared me from writing a big wall of text after reading entire thread. But I will still summarize some emotion-spurred thoughts:

True RPG-fans!Hands off the Mass Effect 3! So they make a shooter,what so bad? It's still has nice story and characters. Just don't pre-order it,wait for actual reviews.But please stop complaining about ME3.

Evil EA! Hands-off the Bioware developers!They know how to make a good RPG, so let them. I understand wanting to increase audience, but leave at least one RPG-project on your list, without any tweaks and catering to the "bigger crowd"(well, i just have to see DA3 and decide on EA's influence then)

Well, basically agree with OP.But mixed with some worries from DA2 forums.

[Mr.House]

Reviwers are paid to review games, I did not say they where bribed by EA, congrats on gonig crazy.

Savber100 wrote...

Seriously, reviews and opinions are SUBJECTIVE. But when more that 90% of your reviews indicate that a game is great... Chances are is the game is good. <_<

Say that to MW2.

[candidate88766]

Mr.House wrote...

Reviwers are paid to review games, I did not say they where bribed by EA, congrats on gonig crazy.

Savber100 wrote...

Seriously, reviews and opinions are SUBJECTIVE. But when more that 90% of your reviews indicate that a game is great... Chances are is the game is good. <_<

Say that to MW2.

MW2 was good for what it was - an action blockbuster that focuses on major set pieces and some of the best gameplay in any 1st person shooter. The only reason it went bad was the community exploiting glitches in the mutliplayer that the reviews didn't spend enough time on to include in their reviews.

People seem to hate on it purely for being mainstream. And not every game needs to have an intelligent and stimulating lot, sometimes a game should just be an enjoyable bit of escapism where you can just turn your brain off for a bit and blow stuff up. Just because you don't like that doesn't make it a bad thing.

Modifié par candidate88766, 06 mai 2011 - 04:13 .

[Sparrow44]

candidate88766 wrote...

MW2 was good for what it was - an action blockbuster that focuses on major set pieces and some of the best gameplay in any 1st person shooter. The only reason it went bad was the community exploiting glitches in the mutliplayer that the reviews didn't spend enough time on to include in their reviews.

Riiiighhht....

Each to their own, I don't think ME fans are only going to buy ME3 if it gets a high review score on IGN or Gamespot.

[Shadowbanner]

Sparroww wrote...

Considering one of the main things BioWare announced in regards to gameplay in ME3 was the addition of 'richer RPG features' and this was months ago and they're saying it again in the recent magazines, I think some people here really need to stop getting on their high horses and just wait 'till more info is announced.

And also E3 is roughly a month away so the wait isn't something to worry about.

That was also said of Dragon Age 2 and look how that panned out.

Who's on the high horse now?

"Enriching with game experience " is the new code word for "we're stripping down the game of RPG elements and tweaking it (dumbing-down) to appeal to a larger mainstream ....insert name here.....fanboys".

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 04:23 .

[candidate88766]

Sparroww wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

MW2 was good for what it was - an action blockbuster that focuses on major set pieces and some of the best gameplay in any 1st person shooter. The only reason it went bad was the community exploiting glitches in the mutliplayer that the reviews didn't spend enough time on to include in their reviews.

Riiiighhht....

Each to their own, I don't think ME fans are only going to buy ME3 if it gets a high review score on IGN or Gamespot.

Never said I like MW2, but it is good for the market it caters for.You simply cannot achieve the level of success it has had without being good.

Also, I never base my purchase of a game on 1 review - I base it partly on metacritic which collects pretty much every review (so I can see the general trend) and partly on whether the story/gameplay/setting is appealing to me.

[Mr.House]

candidate88766 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Reviwers are paid to review games, I did not say they where bribed by EA, congrats on gonig crazy.

Savber100 wrote...

Seriously, reviews and opinions are SUBJECTIVE. But when more that 90% of your reviews indicate that a game is great... Chances are is the game is good. <_<

Say that to MW2.

MW2 was good for what it was - an action blockbuster that focuses on major set pieces and some of the best gameplay in any 1st person shooter. The only reason it went bad was the community exploiting glitches in the mutliplayer that the reviews didn't spend enough time on to include in their reviews.

Are you also forgetting the fact that the PC version was also a console port that lacked dedicated servers and proper modding? Which pissed off the PC community. MW2 was a overhyped game that was not as good as CoD4 and pushed alot of people from the series.

I can also bring up Halo 3, again a high review game by crittis but in the community, there is a massive rift.  Same with FO3. The game was praised by crittis, but if you go to the FO community there is still a large rift between the players who prefer FO1+2,NV and the players that prefer FO3. The Bioware community is no diffrent.

Modifié par Mr.House, 06 mai 2011 - 04:19 .

[Sparrow44]

Shadowbanner wrote...

That was also said of Dragon Age and look how that panned out.

Who's on the high horse now?

"Enriching with RPG elements" = we're stripping down the game of RPG elements and tweaking it to appeal to a larger mainstream ....insert name here.....fanboys.

Dragon Age 2 = released

Mass Effect 3 = not released yet, more info to come

I'm sorry you lose.

The dev team are 'expanding' from ME2 and 'improving' it for ME3, not stripping everything and starting over from scratch like they did for ME2.

[candidate88766]

Mr.House wrote...

Are you also forgettingt he fact that the PC version was also a console port that lacked dedicated servers and proper modding? Which pissed off the PC community. MW2 was a overhyped game that was not as good as CoD4 and pushed alot of people from the series.

I can also bring up Halo 3, again a high review game by crittis but in the community, there is a massive rift.  Same with FO3. The game was praised by crittis, but if you go to the FO community there is still a large rift between the players who prefer FO1+2,NV and the players that prefer FO3. The Bioware community is no diffrent.

Doesn't the PC version of MW2 have lower reviews reflecting that? And you don't need proper modding to be a good game - most people playing MW2 say the modding is what is ruining it. And just being overhyped doesn't make it bad, just dissappointing.

As for Halo 3, the reviews were good mainly for the gameplay and multiplayer, and there is always a rift in such a large online community when a new iteration is released: Halo 2 veterans were not happy with the changes because they were suddenly no longer top dog, whereas new players relished the chance to play it. And the Bungie community is far worse than Bioware's - go to the 'Reach' forum on Bungie.net and you'll see what I mean. Their commnity has greeted each new Halo as the work of the Devil then worshiped it when the next game comes out and is deemd the worst thing ever.

[candidate88766]

Shadowbanner wrote...

"Enriching with game experience " is the new code word for "we're stripping down the game of RPG elements and tweaking it (dumbing-down) to appeal to a larger mainstream ....insert name here.....fanboys".

Do you understand the meaning of the word 'enriching'?

Also: twitter.com/#%21/truffle/status/66325265936171008

Modifié par candidate88766, 06 mai 2011 - 04:25 .

[didymos1120]

Mr.House wrote...

 The Bioware community is no diffrent.

No, there really is no massive rift over ME2, as a simple Googling of review aggregators and a subsequent glance at USER ratings would tell you. These forums are not just the rest of the wider gaming world in miniature.

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 mai 2011 - 04:27 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

Eh, the rift between fans of FO 1&2 and FO3 is more like the distance from here to the moon, even if New Vegas did a good job of bringing both visions in a coherent and very good package. The biggest rifts in the Bioware community,with all their violent, self-righteous, fan-dumby ways, are nothing compared to the sheer hatred people on RPGcodex and NMA have for Beth's version of Fallout.

MW2 just fell in the console-centered sequel hate bandwagon that has been going on these past few years on Metacritic (not that it didn't deserve to be frowned at, just not THAT much). Other notable victims include Dragon Age 2, Crysis 2, and friggin Portal 2, the latter all because of a completely unconsequential hat shop. People on the internet...

[Shadowbanner]

Savber100 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Bioware released two ****ty games in a row? Only one I know that was recent was ME2.

You mean the Mass Effect 2 that got over 40 'perfect' reviews and is currently ranked 12 out of every game on Metacritic? The site that brings together the reviews of people whose job it is to know what makes a game good? You may not like it, but overwhelming opnion is that it is not in the least bit '****ty'.

To paid reviwers maybe, to me the only good things about ME2 is the music, graphics,gameplay, Miri, Thane, Samara, Mordin, Legion, Overlord and LotSB, that's it.

THIS is the type of bullcrap we need to stop.

If a reviewer thinks ME2 is good, it must mean that they were PAID by EA/Bioware to say so! In fact, anyone who thinks ME2 is a mindless drone!

Seriously, reviews and opinions are SUBJECTIVE. But when more that 90% of your reviews indicate that a game is great... Chances are is the game is good. <_<

I have to chip in to shoot down your flawed logic.

Although I agree that specifically in ME2 this holds true, what about DA2 following your logic?

The critic's consensus (on Metacritic there's only one, yes one, disfavorable professional reviewer critic) on DA2 is over 8/10. Must be an awesome game...not.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 06 mai 2011 - 04:32 .

[candidate88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

 The Bioware community is no diffrent.

No, there really is no massive rift over ME2, as a simple Googling of review aggregators and a subsequent glance at USER ratings would tell you. These forums are not just the rest of the wider gaming world in miniature.

Exactly. The only reaons there is an apparent rift on the forums is because the only bother who will bother using them love Mass Effect and want to find out everything they can about it from like-minded people or people who hate it and feel they need to share this with the developers and the wider community. The average person playing it probably never visits forums.