132 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Call me a sissy if you want, but here's the thing:

I have no problem writing completely heartless, nasty, kill-you-as-soon-as-look-at-you characters.  When I see them in movies, I even root for them a little.  But for some reason, every time I TRY to do a pure renegade run, I botch it.  My Shepards are never as cruel as I want them to be.  You'd think it'd be easy--just click the dialogue option and be done with it--but I can't.

I think it's because, in Mass Effect, the game forces you to deal with the consequences.  You see a character die, a city burn, and you know you did it.  You know it's your fault.  And you could have done better--you could have acted, but you didn't.

It also doesn't help that every decision-based death seems like an utterly pointless waste of life.  I can't bring myself to killing someone or letting them die just because I don't like/trust them, even if it's in-character, and even though I do this all the damn time in random short stories that I sometimes entertain myself with when I write.

Maybe some of you folks are just better at roleplaying.  Maybe some of you don't get as absorbed in the game as I do.  Maybe you have different values.  But I... just can't do it.  I don't want to.  I can't separate myself enough from what's happening on the screen to not feel guilty and completely unsatisfied.

Does anyone else have this problem?  If you do, is it for similar reasons as the above, or something else?

For those of you that don't, was putting a bullet though X's head or letting Y die on the Suicide Mission... actually enjoyable?  Why?  Is it fairly easy to keep in mind that it's all just a game and you are simply playing the part of a character?  Or is it more about the satisfaction that comes with breaking all your personal/societal rules in a way that doesn't affect anything outside of a videogame?  Or maybe different reasons entirely?

Also, is it possible that there's an element to roleplaying games that makes us realize more about who we are as human beings?  Is there something about how being forced to live with you(r character's) decisions that gives us a glimpse of who we really are?  Or am I taking all of this too seriously and thinking too hard?

This isn't an argument over which way to play is better.  It isn't
about paragons being goody-two-shoes or renegades being evil monsters. 
It's about the mindset of the player, and how that influences how we
play.

[JetsoverEverything]

im quite the opposite.

[AdmiralCheez]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

im quite the opposite.

How so, and why?

Self-reflection, people!

[IntrepidProdigy]

It's just a sign that you're a normal human being and not a psychopath. I never go for renegade options ALL the time myself, same goes for paragon options, as it just makes the character seem one dimensional (IMO). I will pick renegade options depending on what personality I've established for a certain Shepard though.

[Village_Idiot]

There are always a few major decisions where I can never take the renegade route (killing Shiala for example), and I've never brought any of my Sheps to be absolute jerkasses towards all of the Normandy's crew. Maybe it's because of guilt, but I think it's more because I think to myself "why the hell would anyone DO that?"

[CroGamer002]

Well it took me like 7 Sheps to have a complete ahole.

Then again that ahole will be screwed in ME3. *points at sig*

[JetsoverEverything]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

im quite the opposite.

How so, and why?

Self-reflection, people!

idk i just feel like renegade is alot more exciting than paragon. im not comepletly heartless though there are some choices that get stuck on haha like inviting liara back on to the normandy or letting miranda see her sister.

[eye basher]

i always go paragade

[Gabey5]

no its just you not the game

[AngelicMachinery]

Truthfully a lot of the renegade options are horribly wasteful, I don't mind the off the wall brutality of it all, I usually even grin a little during something excessively violent. There's just something fun about being a female Clint Eastwood in space that really amuses me. Unfortunately, many of the renegade options simply burn bridges for the sake of them and that is why I typically will question killing the Rachni, destroying the geth, and what have you.

[AdmiralCheez]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

idk i just feel like renegade is alot more exciting than paragon. im not comepletly heartless though there are some choices that get stuck on haha like inviting liara back on to the normandy or letting miranda see her sister.

And that's the point I'm getting at.

[MrGone]

Well it totally depends on the situation.

For example - Sidonis.

I've tried to not let him die. Oh how I've tried.

But I just . . . can't deny a friend such well deserved revenge. It seems impossible.

So I know what you're talking about Cheez, but for me it's due not to obviously good/merciful decisions but on the "right" decision for the story.

Unless I'm playing a "stupid" character. I just say to myself:

"Self, what would Xander Crews do?" and then I do that.

It let's me make the worst decisions!

[Almostfaceman]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Call me a sissy if you want, but here's the thing:

I have no problem writing completely heartless, nasty, kill-you-as-soon-as-look-at-you characters.  When I see them in movies, I even root for them a little.  But for some reason, every time I TRY to do a pure renegade run, I botch it.  My Shepards are never as cruel as I want them to be.  You'd think it'd be easy--just click the dialogue option and be done with it--but I can't.

I think it's because, in Mass Effect, the game forces you to deal with the consequences.  You see a character die, a city burn, and you know you did it.  You know it's your fault.  And you could have done better--you could have acted, but you didn't.

It also doesn't help that every decision-based death seems like an utterly pointless waste of life.  I can't bring myself to killing someone or letting them die just because I don't like/trust them, even if it's in-character, and even though I do this all the damn time in random short stories that I sometimes entertain myself with when I write.

Maybe some of you folks are just better at roleplaying.  Maybe some of you don't get as absorbed in the game as I do.  Maybe you have different values.  But I... just can't do it.  I don't want to.  I can't separate myself enough from what's happening on the screen to not feel guilty and completely unsatisfied.

Does anyone else have this problem?  If you do, is it for similar reasons as the above, or something else?

For those of you that don't, was putting a bullet though X's head or letting Y die on the Suicide Mission... actually enjoyable?  Why?  Is it fairly easy to keep in mind that it's all just a game and you are simply playing the part of a character?  Or is it more about the satisfaction that comes with breaking all your personal/societal rules in a way that doesn't affect anything outside of a videogame?  Or maybe different reasons entirely?

Also, is it possible that there's an element to roleplaying games that makes us realize more about who we are as human beings?  Is there something about how being forced to live with you(r character's) decisions that gives us a glimpse of who we really are?  Or am I taking all of this too seriously and thinking too hard?

This isn't an argument over which way to play is better.  It isn't
about paragons being goody-two-shoes or renegades being evil monsters. 
It's about the mindset of the player, and how that influences how we
play.

I like classic heroes like in the old westerns and science fiction (like Buck Rogers). For me it's a worthy ideal to live up to, so I play Shepard like that. I have the freedom to be Buck Rogers. This doesn't mean I play completely pure Paragon, because some of the Paragon choices (since they're written by someone else) I think get a bit preachy or self-righteous. I think Buck Rogers tries to see other's point of view while still saving the Earth or whatever. But yeah I play mostly Paragon. That's what the game is there for, fantasy fulfillment. I take advantage of that fact.

There's also the fact that I've been in the military, and seriously, guys in the military who play like Renegade Shep, well, they'd never make it through OCS. Believe it or not, the military doesn't beat teamwork and diplomacy out of a person nor does it suffer fools well. Renegade Shep is more movie-bad-guy-anti-hero-Riddick-style than anything resembling the soldiers I met and worked with. That's fine for some people but even putting myself in fantasy universe I have a hard time swallowing a professional Marine would act like Renegade Shep.

That's just my two cents though.

[Someone With Mass]

I know what you mean. It just feels so pointless and forced to be that evil to people. It's probably the reason I've never had more than 30% Renegade points in all my playthroughs.

[naledgeborn]

The secret to playing a "pure" Renegade if it's not in your nature to do so is to keep reminding yourself that "no loose ends equates to greater good".

[CroGamer002]

MrGone wrote...

Well it totally depends on the situation.

For example - Sidonis.

I've tried to not let him die. Oh how I've tried.

But I just . . . can't deny a friend such well deserved revenge. It seems impossible.

So I know what you're talking about Cheez, but for me it's due not to obviously good/merciful decisions but on the "right" decision for the story.

Unless I'm playing a "stupid" character. I just say to myself:

"Self, what would Xander Crews do?" and then I do that.

It let's me make the worst decisions!

Isn't giving Garrus revenge terrible thing for him?

[shnizzler93]

For me, it was easier being full renegade in ME1 than it was in ME2, but one incomplete renegade run out compared to 5 complete paragon runs shows how I feel.

[AdmiralCheez]

Mesina2 wrote...

Isn't giving Garrus revenge terrible thing for him?

That's how I felt--feeding his more violent nature would destroy him.  Maybe Sidonis deserved to die for what he did (in your opinion), but is removing one self-serving coward from the world really worth creating a new vengeance-driven monster for it to deal with?

Not that Garrus would have become a monster, but I like to think that friends don't let friends act like self-destructive morons.

Just my two cents.

[Ultai]

I would suggest a few beers while doing a "worst possible playthrough" which I have one of my own, killed as many people as I could in ME1, same for ME2.

That said my paragade has no issues with getting "ruthless" when he needs to towards to the lesser parts of society, which is mostly everyone on Omega. Then there are other things which I believe is the right thing to do. I for one won't commit genocide on Rachni, but I still hand over the evidence at Tali's trial so the quarians can decide what they want to do afterwards with the knowledge in their court. I didn't do this out of any sense of malice towards Tali or the quarians.

I tell Mordin to hold onto the genophage data, since I'm a firm believer in better to have and not need than to need and not have (kept collector base as well), which Shep actually says in the top right option I believe, and I also choose focus on Sovereign.

I won't risk organic life over 3 politicians, well I'm sure there were more politicians on that ship. And if the aliens can't seem to have a system where they have someone next in line to take the reigns and just let the humans lead the Council (hard to believe when the salarian needs to be replaced often compared to Asari) well then perhaps their system of governance isn't up to par.

My shep is there to stop the Reapers since galactic extinction of organic life is kind of a big deal, I'll worry about the post-war consequences later sine none of that matters if we're all dead. I usually end up having full paragon and renegade bars at the end of my canon playthrough.

[Abramis brama]

You should watch lots and lots of old 80's action films and movies with main character of questionable morals (like Falling down). Then rush through ME doing everything renegade while bearing your teeth.

Seriously though I find playing renegade easy in ME because it isn't mainly just stupid evil but I can imagine renegade Shepard to be kind of anti-hero. Killing people just to make sure that they won't ever do it again... etc.
Though some things like killing the Rachni is hard when you know that you most probably can get their help in ME 3. So it feels like a waste to kill them. Someone who roleplays "deeper" can probably do it easier.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

While like like to play renegade (especially female) there are a few things I never do. One of them is betraying Tali. Can't think of any others right now, but some actions are so loathsome even a selfish ****** wouldn't do them.

[JoeClose]

Yeah I feel you on the Sidonis thing, most of the time I let him die but recently I find that I want to preserve Garrus' morality. Other times though with different situation if someone is bring a ****** to me I have no problem blasting them, or the interrogation with Elias. I love beating the crap out of that guy or using Spectre authority.

[Barquiel]

I can't bring myself to be a renegade Shepard. Paragade/neutral...yes, but no renegade (and there are a few things I never do - let the council die, kill the rachni queen/Shiala/Wrex/Rana)

AdmiralCheez wrote...

For those of you that don't, was putting a bullet though X's head or letting Y die on the Suicide Mission... actually enjoyable? 

No. I don't replay the suicide mission to see "X" or "Y" die. But I suspect it's my only chance to avoid some characters in ME3.

Modifié par Barquiel, 06 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[jeweledleah]

on my renegade, Garrus loving femshep - I didn't even try to talk Garrus out of revenge, because if she were in his place, she would have done the same thing (she also let him kill Saleon) It does give him a sort of peace of mind and I cannot see Garrus ever becoming a revenge seeking monster, not without a really (and I mean really) good cause. he has too much inherent goodness in him, a desire to right the wrongs even renegaded.

that said, I've stopped him from killing either/both and I've let him, depending on a character.

P.S.  why do people keep saying that renegades are jerkasses.  well Ok, one of my renegades is often rude, but its part of her charm.  she still tries to do her best, came out of the suicide mision with the best possible outcome and is generaly friendly with her crew, once everyone gets used to her blunt ways.  my other renegade is unfailingly polite and professional to everyone (with exception of Miranda, but that's becasue he enjoys gettign an occasional flustered rise out of her), he just makes ruthless decisions.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 mai 2011 - 06:43 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Barquiel wrote...

No. I don't replay the suicide mission to see "X" or "Y" die. But I suspect it's my only chance to avoid some characters in ME3.

See, I could never do that--no matter how much I hate a character, it seems rather cruel and wasteful just to kill them off so I don't have to see them again.

No that I'm knocking your style; I'd just never do it.  Akin to punching a child because he cries to much, in my mind.  Yeah, I know it's just a game, but it's just...  It makes me feel like an absolute douchebag.