132 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

I agree with the original post and will give a more thoughtful reply later, when I'm not at work.

I have to reconcile the fact that I don't go the ruthless route with the cold fact that, for instance, I picked Kaiden as the VS simply because he's a biotic and Ashley's not. Ashley was a good soldier, but good soldiers are more common than biotics, particularly functioning L2 biotics, and that was that. Never lost a moment's sleep over it.

And my Shed has no compunction about shoving the electrical gadget in the gunship repairman's back, either.

I simply don't see being a "lone wolf" renegade eager to make enemies as being particularly effective. Frank Shepard, earthborn, soldier, sole survivor sticks to the objective and avoids other conflicts of any kind. I think its an incredibly single-minded focus more than high-mindedness. For instance, he saved the Council because an alliance is more powerful that human dominance of a weakened system of Organics.

I once said on this forum that if that terrorist Balak showed up with a workable plan to crash an asteriod into a Reaper, I'd work with him to do it. Yet my character is a pure paragon saint. He blew up the base not because of high-mindedness, but because there's never been an instance of anybody using Reaper tech and not succumbing to its temptations, much less indoctrination.

Then there's the simple fact that I care about the characters in this game. For instance, I could never betray Tali and expose her father's crimes in the loyalty mission. I simply couldn't imagine that.

Similarly, I thought about playing "dark" in KotOR, but read the playthrough first to make sure I wouldn't have to do anyting particularly loathsome. When I read I'd have to kill Mission Vao, the option of playing Dark simply didn't exist for me any more. I'd never do that.

[wepeel_]

Same problem, but different reason here. And it's a simple reason really - it's all about immersion. When I play a fairly nice, paragon Shepard, I make the choices I would personally have made if I were there, and thus that puts me inside the game, so to speak; and that's what I like about it. It's what RPG means to me, if you will.

If I were to make a lot of renegade choices though (I do make some of them that I consider quite justified, or even well-deserved), it quickly breaks the experience. Suddenly it's not me inside the game anymore, but rather me playing a game, and one dimension of immersion is lost. And at that point I don't really enjoy it anymore.

[Puzzlewell]

While I do have two renegade Sheps they are never 100% renegade. I absolutely cannot kill the Rachni queen. In my first renegade I was going to... Clicked on the Renegade option and then as soon as Liara piped up about how I shouldn't I knew I couldn't go through it with it.

That being said on my Paragons there are some Paragon choices as far as two goes that I can't do. I never Paragon interrupt Miranda or Mordin in their LMs when it comes to shooting someone, and I also never talk Garrus out of getting his revenge.

[Minister of Sound]

I have two Sheps, one Paragon, one Renegade.

[lolwut666]

It's just a choice in a game.

It's easy to be pure evil if you just keep that in mind.

Personally, I don't really take any pleasure from doing the most terrible things, but I can't say I feel guilty either.

I just turn off my attachment to the characters, the plot and whatever for the remaining of that PT.

[Minister of Sound]

lolwut666 wrote...

It's just a choice in a game.

It's easy to be pure evil if you just keep that in mind.

Personally, I don't really take any pleasure from doing the most terrible things, but I can't say I feel guilty either.

I just turn off my attachment to the characters, the plot and whatever for the remaining of that PT.

+1

[Evercrow]

Thing is,if you badmouth people enough, you don't need to actually kill them. So my Renegade don't have that much of innocent bystanders bodycount. Although killing non-humanoid aliens are kinda easy on conscience.Killing Rachni Queen was hard only because that scary face my Shep was making .

But honestly, Cheez, you always avoid that window guy interrupt?

Modifié par Evercrow, 06 mai 2011 - 07:17 .

[Ghost Warrior]

I made a similar thread not too long ago,so obviously I agree with the OP. Especially for ME1.

[AdmiralCheez]

Evercrow wrote...

But honestly, Cheez, you always avoid that window guy interrupt?

Okay, it was too hard to resist the first time I did it, but it really wasn't as satisfying as I thought it'd be.  Way more rewarding to intimidate him.

"What sound will you make when you hit the ground?  Think you'll hear it before you die?"

Merc: o_o; Er, um... *pisses pants*

Anyway, it's not like I'm unable to play a 90% renegade Shepard.  There's just a couple places (killing Shiala, for example, even though she's the most annoying asari ever and I love to make her fanboys miserable) where I really can't go bottom right on the dialogue wheel.  Pointless waste of life.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 06 mai 2011 - 07:32 .

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Evercrow wrote...

But honestly, Cheez, you always avoid that window guy interrupt?

Okay, it was too hard to resist the first time I did it, but it really wasn't as satisfying as I thought it'd be.  Way more rewarding to intimidate him.

"What sound will you make when you hit the ground?  Think you'll hear it before you die?"

Merc: o_o; Er, um... *pisses pants*

Anyway, it's not like I'm unable to play a 90% renegade Shepard.  There's just a couple places (killing Shiala, for example, even though she's the most annoying asari ever and I love to make her fanboys miserable) where I really can't go bottom right on the dialogue wheel.  Pointless waste of life.

Agreed.

[ExtremeOne]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Truthfully a lot of the renegade options are horribly wasteful, I don't mind the off the wall brutality of it all, I usually even grin a little during something excessively violent. There's just something fun about being a female Clint Eastwood in space that really amuses me. Unfortunately, many of the renegade options simply burn bridges for the sake of them and that is why I typically will question killing the Rachni, destroying the geth, and what have you.

    


I see it differently since Bioware made the choice to side with the paragon ending in 2 for the main story in 3 . what else do us renegade players have left but to say F**k it if the end choice does not help us at all and it was never designed to then hell yeah lets burn sh*t up . 

[lolwut666]

@AdmiralCheez

Why do you dislike Shiala?

[Td1984]

I've thought about doing a pure renegade playthrough, but I don't think I can do it either. I did the renegade choice on Zaeed's loyalty mission and let all those workers burn to death and it seriously bothered me, so I highly doubt I could do a pure renegade playthrough. Think I'll just stick to getting Renegade points via the "awesome button" (interrupts) instead.

[AdmiralCheez]

lolwut666 wrote...

Why do you dislike Shiala?

She's boring, her voice annoys me, she shows unwanted romantic interest in my Shep, and her fanboys ****** me off.

....  And, suddenly, I know how the Anti-Tali people feel.

Anyway, it's just my opinion--don't hate on me for it.  I ain't gonna hate on you for disliking wasabi peas or anything (which are, by the way, the greatest snack food known to man).

[Black Raptor]

I find it hard to be truly renegade because I know not much bad happens from letting people live. I have no trouble with choosing renegade prompts to kill enemies (ie mordin's loyalty mission, Miranda's loyalty mission and Garrus' recruitment mission all have people to kill which makes the game easier) and I can justify leaving the council to die, but I really have to force myself (and look away) to kill Shiala and Rana in ME1.

Truly dickish moves with no beneficial consequences.

That said, I always find myself siding with TIM at the end of the suicide mission. Even on full para runs I feel like I'm forcing myself to destroy the base.

[Evercrow]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Evercrow wrote...

But honestly, Cheez, you always avoid that window guy interrupt?

Okay, it was too hard to resist the first time I did it, but it really wasn't as satisfying as I thought it'd be.  Way more rewarding to intimidate him.

"What sound will you make when you hit the ground?  Think you'll hear it before you die?"

Merc: o_o; Er, um... *pisses pants*

Anyway, it's not like I'm unable to play a 90% renegade Shepard.  There's just a couple places (killing Shiala, for example, even though she's the most annoying asari ever and I love to make her fanboys miserable) where I really can't go bottom right on the dialogue wheel.  Pointless waste of life.

I have to go replay ME1 to make some elaborate post on that(in process actually).
My first, 'mine' Shepard is paragon almost all the way, except for some instances where I think he's too soft, so i pick neutral or lower option.
When I go for renegade replay, i usually feel less connected(because i pick default face or another gender), so killing bunch of guys go kinda easy.
Usually, I go for that ruthless feel - you minimize possible risks of letting alive enemies go.For example, I agree with Zaeed that killing Vido would save more people in the long run.If it wasn't for crashed gunship, i would pick to go for him directly every time. In that regard, i feel some Renegade decisions much more believable, if you don't look at them from retrospect(when you've see hints of consequences), but from immediate viewpoint:
destroying heretics along with their virus, concentrating directly on Sovereign,make sure you fully prepared for SM...things like that.

[E_rik]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Call me a sissy if you want, but here's the thing:

I have no problem writing completely heartless, nasty, kill-you-as-soon-as-look-at-you characters.  When I see them in movies, I even root for them a little.  But for some reason, every time I TRY to do a pure renegade run, I botch it.  My Shepards are never as cruel as I want them to be.  You'd think it'd be easy--just click the dialogue option and be done with it--but I can't.

I think it's because, in Mass Effect, the game forces you to deal with the consequences.  You see a character die, a city burn, and you know you did it.  You know it's your fault.  And you could have done better--you could have acted, but you didn't.

It also doesn't help that every decision-based death seems like an utterly pointless waste of life.  I can't bring myself to killing someone or letting them die just because I don't like/trust them, even if it's in-character, and even though I do this all the damn time in random short stories that I sometimes entertain myself with when I write.

Maybe some of you folks are just better at roleplaying.  Maybe some of you don't get as absorbed in the game as I do.  Maybe you have different values.  But I... just can't do it.  I don't want to.  I can't separate myself enough from what's happening on the screen to not feel guilty and completely unsatisfied.

Does anyone else have this problem?  If you do, is it for similar reasons as the above, or something else?

For those of you that don't, was putting a bullet though X's head or letting Y die on the Suicide Mission... actually enjoyable?  Why?  Is it fairly easy to keep in mind that it's all just a game and you are simply playing the part of a character?  Or is it more about the satisfaction that comes with breaking all your personal/societal rules in a way that doesn't affect anything outside of a videogame?  Or maybe different reasons entirely?

Also, is it possible that there's an element to roleplaying games that makes us realize more about who we are as human beings?  Is there something about how being forced to live with you(r character's) decisions that gives us a glimpse of who we really are?  Or am I taking all of this too seriously and thinking too hard?

This isn't an argument over which way to play is better.  It isn't
about paragons being goody-two-shoes or renegades being evil monsters. 
It's about the mindset of the player, and how that influences how we
play.

I feel this a lot too in parts. Like my renegade playthrough, I was gonna give evidence at Tali's trial  (Already romanced Jack, didnt really care.),  but  I just kind of clammed up and instead shouted down the admirals. And I can never really bring myself to burn that krogan on Mordin's mission; when you think about it,  he's just trying to save his race from the genophage that could wipe out the whole krogan race in a few generations.

Guess I'm just a panzy.:innocent:

[gosimmons]

I can relate in a way. I'm fine with a few renegade/anti-hero choices, but I'm terrible at playing the bad guy. Never purposely killed anyone on the suicide mission, and I don't off someone when it seems unnecessary.

It's like with Kotor. Every time I tried to play a darkside character (which is pretty much evil for the sake of it) I didn't do well. lol

[WizenSlinky0]

I run into this problem a lot. Every playthrough I start saying this will be the time heads explode, babies cry, and the world is slightly less full when I'm done....it never ends up like that. Sure, I can intimidate the hell out of anyone. If they threaten me, my team, or basically act like complete pricks it makes my job a lot easier.

But soon as someone shows some remorse or is doing something good with their life...it's like dammit, how do you expect me to kill you now. Yell. Scream. Tell me if I let you go you'll kill my first born child. SOMETHING.

Of course they never do and I let them walk away. I just can't justify pointless killing (though I do tend to do the renegade interrupts, for the humor factor. "You work too hard"...ah lovely). It leaves a rather bitter taste in my mouth, sometimes for days, to actually have to live with those choices.

I'd agree, it'd likely be less of a problem, if you didn't have to live through those consequences not just in this game but in the next as well. Mass Effect is an extremely immersion based game that really pulls me into the story. I feel those consequences far more than I probably should.

I'm just not built for the renegade choices. Shame.

[Ski Mask Wei]

I can be ruthless and it's hella fun. It's just ridiculously awesome to do what you want, tell any and everybody to f%#k off, and leave a trail of destruction in your wake. Being good (in real life and in gaming) is very overrated so why not take the chance to cause virtual mayhem?

[kill_switch_423]

I'm about to force myself to do a worst-case-scenario in ME2 for ME3(sparing only Garrus and Tali-Iknow I couldn't let them go), but I'm not sure if I can do it. I never was able to in the past, but since I have so many playthroughs with everyone alive, I feel like I should be able to... after all, it's not my canon.

[Darius Vir]

If I read what you're getting at correctly, I think I usually have the same issue.

Personally, the idea of a "renegade" or "paragon" playthrough that a lot of people do really doesn't hold much interest for me. I basically play the game-essentially- almost the exact same way each time, through. There's just little interest for me in doing a radically or even moderately different playthrough, in that I don't WANT to have my character do the things that would be required to do so.

FWIW, using game terms my playthroughs are fairly paragon, with several neutral and a few renegade responses/interrupts- and several of the renegade responses are those bizarro dialogue choices where the renegade response seems to be the nicer/classier/more humane thing to do.  Generally, I don't want to choose the renegade responses, for a variety of reasons- they seem unnecessarily cruel, pointless, and just idiotic.  Yet there are a few I do pick, and again, I'll usually do them in all playthroughs because I feel there is a good in-game reason to do so. 

I remember an older thread discussing choices that you, the player, always find yourself choosing in your playthroughs. For me, I thought that a description of my own choices was pointless because basically every playthrough involves the same choice. I just never WANT to beat up Mouse, or let Morinth live, or let the factory workers die. So I don't, ever. But I'm totally fine with that, and I enjoy each playthrough regardless.

Modifié par Darius Vir, 06 mai 2011 - 08:33 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

A pure renegade run? No, I can't do that, but I can bring myself to choose some renegade choices if I decide that choosing them is for the best, like letting the Council to be killed when I wanted more chances against Sovereign who was the biggest threat there.

Or when people really ****** me off.


Edit: as an explanation I would say it's because I'm too immersed in the game and therefore my characteristics travel to Shepard.

Modifié par PetrySilva, 06 mai 2011 - 08:51 .

[Labrev]

I tried and failed on my first attempt to do what I did in my sig. Got it the second time though. Once I was in a "lulz I'm such a evil bia--" mode/mind-set I felt pretty unstoppable about it, and it became more funny than sad when I f'd with people.

Only things I still felt bad about were killing Zaeed and seeing Veetor on the Migrant Fleet after sending him to Cerberus, but even then I got a laugh out of how despicable I was.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 06 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[Labrev]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Why do you dislike Shiala?

She's boring, her voice annoys me, she shows unwanted romantic interest in my Shep, and her fanboys ****** me off.

....  And, suddenly, I know how the Anti-Tali people feel.

Anyway, it's just my opinion--don't hate on me for it.  I ain't gonna hate on you for disliking wasabi peas or anything (which are, by the way, the greatest snack food known to man).

Not to mention her liberal use of Throw against you every time she's incarnated. By the time she breaks free I'm proper pissed-off.