132 réponses à ce sujet

[fighterchick]

I have no problem doing a full renegade run and I think it's mainly because I don't put myself in Shepard's place or really role play with the game. I think I take the game way less seriously than those that can't do the renegade run, but it really has never bothered me. Sometimes if the character is particularly annoying (I agree with you on Shiala and never liked her), then I definitely have no problem killing them. Mainly, I'll do one renegade run, one paragon run, and the rest are all mixed in between since that's more realistic anyways. I enjoy doing the full renegade far more than the full paragon because of the funny scenes you get. Not sure what that says about me, but hey, it's just a game.

[Waltzingbear]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Call me a sissy..

Sissy!

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I think it's because, in Mass Effect, the game forces you to deal with the consequences.  You see a character die, a city burn, and you know
you did it.  You know it's your fault.  And you could have done better--you could have acted, but you didn't.

That wouldn't be it (at least for me) as even choosing the 'This is my ship' option when I know that it would have no consequences whatsoever, to the plot or Miranda, is hard for me.

The first time I decided to do a Renegade run it was almost impossible for me to be cruel to Tali on the very first Freedom's Progress mission. Watching the reactions was agonizing; it still is, and I usually skip a lot of dialogue when I play Renegade.

Whatever it is ME2 just does it right, be it lifelike presentation, involvement with the characters or a sense of meaning to your actions.

Call me a sissy too...

Modifié par Waltzingbear, 06 mai 2011 - 08:47 .

[88mphSlayer]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

I'm about to force myself to do a worst-case-scenario in ME2 for ME3(sparing only Garrus and Tali-Iknow I couldn't let them go), but I'm not sure if I can do it. I never was able to in the past, but since I have so many playthroughs with everyone alive, I feel like I should be able to... after all, it's not my canon.

when people first played the game, a lot of people experienced having half their squads die on them or more, i was in that same boat

did it feel morally reprehensible? absolutely not, if anything it made me appreciate their willingness to join a suicide mission

that's the problem with metagaming is that people feel bad because they feel they can do better, but when you first played the game and were just in-the-moment you felt you had done everything you could

as for being ruthless? it really depends because both Mass Effect games tend to do several things wrong with pure renegades: 1) assume being ruthless = being dumb, ie: selling off Legion makes no sense as a pure renegade, it really shouldn't be considered renegade to begin with because that just pigeon holes how people feel about the decision... another example is morinth, who is nothing but a liability to the mission and a liability to your health, if anything Samarra already takes the law into her own hands and does things renegades would do to begin with, Morinth spends her time doing serial killing and isn't even trained for combat... 2) assume ruthless = being whiney or unappreciative of help, ie: scolding squadmates or whining like a baby for selfish reasons is not ruthless it's amateurish - motivating squadmates through rivalries is just a legitimate a way of building a team as coddling them, also ie: saving the alliance to attack sovereign is ruthless but done because you don't know if sovereign can even be destroyed and the council can be replaced with one more ready to goto war in the future... 3) that paragon Shepard knows best, really should I have say over saving the Rachni Queen if my species only got to space how many hundreds of years after the Rachni nearly did a reaper and wiped out the galaxy? if i have Wrex with me during that mission i can't help but kill the Rachni, they were brought back for immoral reasons and you might feel a sense of "pay it forward" to let the Queen go but all the same knowing boundaries is just as wise, same goes for letting Garrus kill Sidonis or letting Jack kill the guy on Pragia

but really for the most part being renegade is easy in Mass Effect 2, you can get through ME2 and max out your renegade bar while having everybody survive and loyal, i found KOTOR to be a lot harder to be evil than either Mass Effect game because KOTOR always lacked detailed context - you just did things in a schizophrenic fashion

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I have no trouble playing a sociopath. I have no trouble playing someone who I would easily consider "evil." I have a problem with playing someone who is evil for the sake of evil, rather than evil for the sake of their own benefit. I'm fine if you're Magneto, doing "evil" things to forward an agenda that is important to you. It's just that subtle, quiet, practical evil works so much better.

This doesn't mean I can't be a Renegade, there are plenty of Renegade decisions that are completely within my "subtle, angry, fun" classification. But a lot of them aren't.

I wish they'd make evil more tempting. So much of the time it seems you're being a jerk just to make your jerk bar go up, not because it is awesome. The biggest example, the one I always bring up, is right at the beginning of KOTOR. You meet a girl who is hiding out. Some big criminal tried to sexually assault her, and she stabbed him, so now she's hiding because he wants revenge. Ok.

So, if you're going to be evil, you go find the criminal and he hires you to kill her. What? WHY? If I'm an evil dude or lady, there's still no reason for me to do this. There's nothing for me to gain, here! How does killing some awesome stabby chick benefit me? Some money, sure, but if I can just be bought then I lack agency. Plus, why can't I pretend I killed the girl, meet up with the guy who is going to pay me, murder him, and take the reward money? Easy as pie.

Now, if the "good" thing to do in this case were to be to help that girl escape to another planet, and the "evil" thing was to pull out that guy's intestines and feed them to him... then heck yeah I'd do the evil thing. Heck. Yeah.

Someday I want to see a "good and evil" game where most of the evil things are really freaking sweet and really freaking tempting. Like... "Hey, there's that racist, corrupt public official - maybe I should murder him!" or "Hmm, I can either turn this rich bastard over to the cops or kill him and steal his vast wealth to fuel my private vices." Go down that road, and sooner or later it becomes easy to track down the guy who was mean to you at Jump Zero and ruin his life, or just punch a stranger because it would be funny and you know nobody will call you on it.

The choice shouldn't be between Superman and Lex Luthor, it should be between Spiderman and classic, pre-heroism-era Deadpool, or between Batman and the Punisher. (Yes, all my moral scales are arranged according to comic book characters. You don't get as much instant recognizability on a huge sliding scale in any other medium.) 

My Renegade Shepard is a complete sociopath who cares about her personal well-being first and her personal amusement second. The thing is, almost none of the deaths in Mass Effect clearly benefit you, and neither do most of the other major plotline renegade decisions. Let me get this straight: I can have my own hilarious robot butler who will dance for me, or you're going to give me a measly 50,000 credits? No freaking deal, idiots. You've got to bloody tempt me. Make me sacrifice a whole colony to save some chick I want to nail. Allow me to start a war between two factions I don't like. Give me access to some highly enjoyable weaponry, possession of which is highly illegal. Give me a chance to be petty, to revenge myself on anyone who crosses me the slightest, to reap great benefits by exploiting the system.

I play amoral characters in Shadowrun a lot (it's a great world for them.) I was once in a situation where Suu had screwed up, and it was her fault this mission was going to fail. The thing is, only one person knew that it was her fault, a newbie underling who had been put under her charge just that day. So she murdered the underling and framed him for her mistake. This is the kind of thing they could give Renegades a chance to do. Instead of letting someone die because you dislike them, give us a chance to let someone die because they are going to get us caught for something we actually did, or because they're going to report some illegal act of ours to the authorities, or because they're going to undercut our authority. Give us reasons! Good ones! Like, if there had been a way to frame someone else for destroying that Batarian system? I would have done that in a hot minute... I would even have been tempted to do it on my Paragon characters.

A great man once said "Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" The problem is that most evil in video games and movies is also dumb. You don't make deals with the devil! You don't kill when it won't benefit you! You don't proclaim yourself evil emperor! Instead, you quietly take over all the biggest banks in the world and then use currency manipulations to give yourself more power than any politician could ever have. What are you guys, new? 

The best, coolest, most tempting evil is the kind that always gets away with it, the kind of evil that will have half the galaxy believing you are a pillar of society while you rob them blind, the kind of evil where no one dares every cross you, for fear of being destroyed. Give us that. 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 06 mai 2011 - 10:10 .

[Da Mecca]

I can't make renegade decisions yet I have no problem doing renegade interrupts.

Hell in ME1 even though I was a paragon I used the intimidate option sometimes.

I think it fit well with the Earthborn bio, I didn't want to be a renegade but I wanted to keep that edge to his personality.

[AdmiralCheez]

That was a good rant, CGG, and it might actually be fun to play that way.

[dielveio]

All my sheps are Paragon, but there are 2, and only two renegade options I NEVER let pass.
Punching a certain scientist in the face in Mass Effect 1(is too hard to resist) and make a certain batarian bastard drink his own juice.

Modifié par dielveio, 06 mai 2011 - 10:18 .

[Hathur]

I have the same problem, Cheez.

I've only managed to do perhaps 3 or 4 renegade playthroughs (and even then I made paragon choices at times).. but over 12 paragon playthroughs.

To illustrate how difficult it is for me to play the pure renegade, in my playthrough where I intentionally failed the suicide mission (all squad & shep die)... I actually cheered when my renegade Shepard plummeted to her death at the end... I felt genuinely good that such a maniacal, ruthless sack of crap had died. Was very weird (whereas a paragon shepard of that scene has me choking back tears).

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

I have a hard time playing full-paragon or full-renegade. There are some renegade options that seem simply unnecessarily cruel (much of the dialogue). Then again, there are some paragon options (like letting the Rachni Queen go) that seem so recklessly naive I can never bring myself to choose them.

[RunicDragons]

I agree with you! I tried to be as evil as evil gets.. But I just can't...
I can't imagine Shepard as a ruthless bastard that everybody hates.
It just doesn't fit in my opinion. 

Modifié par RunicDragons, 06 mai 2011 - 10:30 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

I'm paragade mostly but it's easier for me to be paragon than renegade. I like people I guess.

I sometimes feel the same "I could've stopped that" feeling playing ME as OP which I sometimes get IRL. Books and movies and other games don't cause that feeling with me.

Of course I do some full renegade playthroughs anyways...just for the comedy.

[RunicDragons]

MrGone wrote...

Well it totally depends on the situation.

For example - Sidonis.

I've tried to not let him die. Oh how I've tried.

But I just . . . can't deny a friend such well deserved revenge. It seems impossible.

So I know what you're talking about Cheez, but for me it's due not to obviously good/merciful decisions but on the "right" decision for the story.

Unless I'm playing a "stupid" character. I just say to myself:

"Self, what would Xander Crews do?" and then I do that.

It let's me make the worst decisions!

You do know that, if you let Sidonis live, you can convince Garrus it was the right thing. Why?
Because Sidonis was literally damaged after betraying his own team, and you could sense it in his voice that he really meant it. So that's why you can get Garrus loyal even though you don't kill Sidonis, and Garrus understands that. He thanks you later. 

In my opinion it makes more sense to talk Garrus out of this instead of just killing Sidonis.  
But if you rather want to kill Sidonis go ahead! I do that sometimes too. 

Modifié par RunicDragons, 06 mai 2011 - 10:31 .

[Bluko]

 Well I almost did a perfect 100% Renegade playthru. Sort of like swallowing a pill, I do it cause I know I gotta. The only part I botched in my 100% Renegade playthru was I gave Tali the Geth Data. I just couldn't say No, and frankly it seems really stupid not to give them that data. I can't think of any valid reason not to, unless you want the Quarians to die or want them crushed under your heel when Humanity takes control. It's funny though even in ME2 Renegade options towards Tali are fairly "nice".

The ending of that playthru was pretty interesting. Even Anderson was like "My god Shepard..."
Very Bad Shepard

I dunno Anderson's reaction basically reflected my own.

I also remember executing Shiala when one of my friends came over. His reaction was basically "What the **** are you doing?!" when Shiala knelt down and then I think he said I was going to hell after I shot her. I had to explain to him that this was my Renegade playthru.

I can do a pure Renegade playthru. I sort of just "laugh it off", but a small part of me is like: "Dude you keep playing like this you can bet Satan is going to pop up with offer." Though frankly I don't see it as any different when you create that save in games like the Elder Scrolls or Baldur's Gate and then start trying to kill everyone, until eventually the guards overwhelm you. I like that about Baldur's Gate. Really don't like someone, just kill them. You can always rebuild your reputation...


Come on you know it's fun to at least try. Mmm maybe I am becoming evil...

[laudable11]

I just cant play a "bad" Shepard! I tried to play a renegade but i could not do wrong and I have hundreds of hours of gameplay.

[Surmansuuhun]

I, too, feel bad when I play Renegade. It just feels like I'm being mean solely for the purpose of being mean. I've tried to play renegade and I only really get as far as needlessly punching that one crazy scientist on Eden Prime before I'm like "This is dumb. There was no point to that." I just don't like it. I will try to actually finish one Renegade play through, but I feel like I'm going to fail. It always makes me feel bad. That's why if I play Renegade/Dark side, I have to play a parallel Paragon character so I can go back and do everything right afterwards.
I agree with CGG's ideas for the better kind of evil. I want to be more manipulative. Being nice to everyone and getting everyone to love me, but solely for the benefit they pose to me. Working behind the scenes as a puppet master that everyone adores and will do anything for, but I care only for myself. That's the kind of evil I'd play. Not this punching puppies for the lulz I feel BioWare does a lot.

Modifié par Surmansuuhun, 07 mai 2011 - 12:30 .

[PrinceLionheart]

I've done a Renegade!Shep Once. Not a big fan of it.

[Seboist]

Bluko wrote...

 Well I almost did a perfect 100% Renegade playthru. Sort of like swallowing a pill, I do it cause I know I gotta. The only part I botched in my 100% Renegade playthru was I gave Tali the Geth Data. I just couldn't say No, and frankly it seems really stupid not to give them that data. I can't think of any valid reason not to, unless you want the Quarians to die or want them crushed under your heel when Humanity takes control. It's funny though even in ME2 Renegade options towards Tali are fairly "nice".

The ending of that playthru was pretty interesting. Even Anderson was like "My god Shepard..."
Very Bad Shepard

I dunno Anderson's reaction basically reflected my own.

I also remember executing Shiala when one of my friends came over. His reaction was basically "What the **** are you doing?!" when Shiala knelt down and then I think he said I was going to hell after I shot her. I had to explain to him that this was my Renegade playthru.

I can do a pure Renegade playthru. I sort of just "laugh it off", but a small part of me is like: "Dude you keep playing like this you can bet Satan is going to pop up with offer." Though frankly I don't see it as any different when you create that save in games like the Elder Scrolls or Baldur's Gate and then start trying to kill everyone, until eventually the guards overwhelm you. I like that about Baldur's Gate. Really don't like someone, just kill them. You can always rebuild your reputation...


Come on you know it's fun to at least try. Mmm maybe I am becoming evil...

You can justify keeping the Geth data from Tali on the grounds that it's classified Alliance information. It's really no different than keeping the Cerberus data from the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par Seboist, 07 mai 2011 - 01:56 .

[SilentNukee]

Me too, I've always enjoyed being the good "guy". In ME, in DA, in Fable...anything you throw at me, I'll be the good person. I just can't be evil, it's not in me.

[Reever]

Well, I´m probably not that entranced in the game, but some choice are still hard to make, mainly when they´re "dumb" choices (doesn´t necessarily have to be the renegade ones, an example would be the paragon answer the 2nd time you talk with mordin on the ship...).

I already did a "total casualties" run, and also a run where only Miranda and Jacob survived - still, I couldn´t keep those chars purely Renegade (still, I´ll be doing a Renegade playthrough later this year Currently doing a purely Paragon one ^^).

[CajNatalie]

I've never done a 100% Renegade run, simply because after my 100% Paragon run I wanted to scream from the blandness.
Being so damn nice and co-operative got to me. Just as I imagine being a total ass would be a hinderance.

Instead when I began my Ruthless Earthborn character on the way to a Renegade life... I actually did Paragade.
Being a nice enough person with my squad... or civilians in tough situations. But being an ass when the situation demands it. Shoving a gun in Conrad's face is always satisfying, for example.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 07 mai 2011 - 01:38 .

[Razorsedge820]

I myself can never play as a full renegade. The highest my renegade bar ever got in any of my playthroughs is about 30%. Choices like letting the workers burn on Zaeeds mission and handing Veetor over to cerberus are choices I can never make because they seem to cold hearted to me. But other renegade choices like head butting Uvenk and snaping the neck of that eclipse leader on Miranda's mission I can make because they are too badass and hilarious to pass up.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 07 mai 2011 - 01:42 .

[tommythetomcat]

I find it easier to stomach "evil" choices if I kinda give my Shepard a backstory for how he/she is, human "centric" and do whatever it takes to complete the mission, or just a soldier doing his/her job, but still knows the difference between whats acceptable and not for the situation.

A lot of the damn near pure evil choices to me just seem silly in almost any context so there are some things even I wont do on a playthrough. Morally grey areas are where I like to play around in.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Isn't giving Garrus revenge terrible thing for him?

That's how I felt--feeding his more violent nature would destroy him.  Maybe Sidonis deserved to die for what he did (in your opinion), but is removing one self-serving coward from the world really worth creating a new vengeance-driven monster for it to deal with?

Not that Garrus would have become a monster, but I like to think that friends don't let friends act like self-destructive morons.

Just my two cents.

This is funny. I play as a Paragade (mostly Paragon) which always thought that Sidonis deserved to die at first. I let him kill that mad doctor in ME1 (didn't even think twice, I got disgusted just hearing Garrus's story and never got to see the Paragon side of it) and then on my first playthrough, let him kill Sidonis. Ok. Months later I saw a comment here about the Paragon side of it and then saw the footage at Youtube. I was shocked. Now I always stop him and make the guy realize the grey side of things, just like my Shepard, much better. The good of about replay value...

About the OP, well, that's two with me. I picked some different choices on multiple plays but never a true renegade. Difference is I don't want to. Also, there are some choices I could NEVER go renegade and some attitudes of R. Shepard just make me see it like a childish psychotic douchebag.

[Quole]

I almost always go renegade because Im a douche.