132 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

Call me a sissy if you want, but here's the thing:

I have no problem writing completely heartless, nasty, kill-you-as-soon-as-look-at-you characters. When I see them in movies, I even root for them a little. But for some reason, every time I TRY to do a pure renegade run, I botch it. My Shepards are never as cruel as I want them to be. You'd think it'd be easy--just click the dialogue option and be done with it--but I can't.

I think it's because, in Mass Effect, the game forces you to deal with the consequences. You see a character die, a city burn, and you know you did it. You know it's your fault. And you could have done better--you could have acted, but you didn't.

It’s been a long time since I even tried to play renegade, but I distinctly remember being repulsed by Shep’s words before the deeds were committed.
Although we’re playing the character, we’re hearing someone else speak the words and looking at his/her face as we do it.
Nobody talks to me like that and has me sit there and take it. I wasn’t morally distressed. I was insulted – even though I “knew” this was supposed to be my character talking to somebody else.

Modifié par Thompson family, 07 mai 2011 - 02:00 .

[Urdnot Orrad]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
*snip*

To be honest Cheez, I just hated being Renegade PERIOD in ME1... it was, quite simply, stomach-turning to me the way Shep would act, kill people so casually-- but to be honest, the REAL nail in the coffin for me ever playing Renegade for ME1 was what happens to Conrad Verner.

Yes, I know a lot of people find Conrad to be annoying, but I actually like the guy. My canon Shep is always nice to him. Maybe he's nuts, maybe he's stupid, but he's one of the few people that really looks up to Shep no matter what. And when you act all jerkass-y to him, at the end you put a gun in his face. His response?

"(on the verge of tears) I thought you were a hero! Heroes don't do this! I wish I had never met you!"

That... the way that played out totally killed any possibility of doing a Renegade run for me, because to me, those lines epitomized how the ordinary person looks to Shepard: As a hero, a true role model. And seeing someone like that act like a complete ****... well, as any disillusioned child would tell you, it's quite the psyche-shattering moment.

ME2's rendition of the Renegade was a bit better, more on the funny side, though Shep is still an **** and can come off as a total bigot. I am neither, and God forbid I ever give my Shepard such qualities. The only time my Shep takes Renegade interrupts is to make certain fights easier, and the only Renegade dialog options he takes are those needed to impress the krogan, because krogan like aggressiveness, and my Shepard understands this. But that's it.

[CajNatalie]

I like Conrad, too... but I also like shoving my gun in his face...
It's very satisfying.

[FobManX]

When I play Renegade I try to be like Vic Mackey, the main character of The Shield. Mackey was a loving family man and ridiculously loyal to his friends and loved ones, but when it came to his enemies he was as ruthless as they come. Despite that, he was still reasonable and smart and wasn't a dick just to be a dick.

[Sanguinerin]

I, personally, can't seem to bring myself to be a renegade player that often. It doesn't feel right to me. I'm a little more alright with allowing other party characters to kill for their own personal goals or vendettas. Basically, I normally play a paragon game but I won't always interfere with a paragon interrupt.

On one play-through, I allowed several party members to die. It was planned because character Y just might be too much of a loose cannon, or too powerful, etc. to allow them to roam free. I didn't enjoy it, but that was how I rationalized it, "it's best for society if such and such character doesn't get out of my sight later." Obviously, that was my own plan as the player, laid out to Shepard's ignorance of placing the wrong people to the wrong task and such.

I always try to save everyone, but I'm also a curious enough player where I want to see as many outcomes as possible. Some less paragon decisions are made so that I can see what would have happened, while my "main" and most important character always makes what I perceive to be the "right" decision.

[Aumata]

I must be the opposite, because when I role play I am 100% renegade. I can't be 100% Paragon.

[dreman9999]

It's esay to be ruthless. See the puppy and shot it and eat it for dinner.


Truth be told, I'm in the same boat. It's hard being mean, that's why you have to make a Sheperd with a different set of morals. Example:My Soldier Sheperd has the same morals as a Korgan. This means I'm nice too my allies, ruthless to may eneimes, and I never shoot anyone in the face....Because warriors like you and me would do it in the face.(Rip Wrex. He got it in the face...and my solder Shep liked him alot.)

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2011 - 03:59 .

[Legbiter]

I cannot let anyone die in the SM. Curbstomping Mouse in Thane's loyalty mission is a no-go as well. As is letting the salarian in Thane's recruitment mission die and a couple others I can't recall.

As to Garrus's LM, I was there as a friend, not as a commander. If he wants to plug Sidonis in the head, then that happens with some minor griping from my Shepard at most.

[AdmiralCheez]

Aumata wrote...

I must be the opposite, because when I role play I am 100% renegade. I can't be 100% Paragon.

Well, to be fair, some of the paragon lines make you sound like a complete ass, so I avoid them like the plague...

But that's the thing.  People can approach this game in so many different ways.  It's cool like that.

[dreman9999]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
*snip*

To be honest Cheez, I just hated being Renegade PERIOD in ME1... it was, quite simply, stomach-turning to me the way Shep would act, kill people so casually-- but to be honest, the REAL nail in the coffin for me ever playing Renegade for ME1 was what happens to Conrad Verner.

Yes, I know a lot of people find Conrad to be annoying, but I actually like the guy. My canon Shep is always nice to him. Maybe he's nuts, maybe he's stupid, but he's one of the few people that really looks up to Shep no matter what. And when you act all jerkass-y to him, at the end you put a gun in his face. His response?

"(on the verge of tears) I thought you were a hero! Heroes don't do this! I wish I had never met you!"

That... the way that played out totally killed any possibility of doing a Renegade run for me, because to me, those lines epitomized how the ordinary person looks to Shepard: As a hero, a true role model. And seeing someone like that act like a complete ****... well, as any disillusioned child would tell you, it's quite the psyche-shattering moment.

ME2's rendition of the Renegade was a bit better, more on the funny side, though Shep is still an **** and can come off as a total bigot. I am neither, and God forbid I ever give my Shepard such qualities. The only time my Shep takes Renegade interrupts is to make certain fights easier, and the only Renegade dialog options he takes are those needed to impress the krogan, because krogan like aggressiveness, and my Shepard understands this. But that's it.

Ah....To be renegade....

[AK404]

The problem is, in ME1, Renegade meant "Stupid Evil" and "Obvious Jerkface." I mean, yeah, there's "we need to do something bad to get this done" and "let's punch this reporter on live television."

This is what really, really, pisses me off about the Paragon/Renegade system. It's very possible to be a caring thoughtful person while appearing blunt and rude (see "hooker with a heart of gold," "Sam Vimes," or "gruff but loving father-figure"), just as it is very possible to be a ruthless sociopathic human being with zero empathy while appearing very respectable and law-abiding (see "Congress" or "RIAA"). Oh, look, Xanatos, the Patrician, and Batman: you make a plan, figure there's a few people you'll probably have to screw over, but plan to make it okay in the end so you win. There's your Renegade thought process, not Charles Manson, the Joker, and Osama bin Laden.

It's also the reason that TIM trying to kill Shepard puts the nail in his "Stupid Evil poorly-written villain" coffin: you don't destroy a resource, you manipulate events so that a world without the TIM is actually a lot worse than a world with him, then chuckle as he grumbles about having to put up with your crap while continuing to heap more of your crap on his head.

In ME2, there is only one Renegade opinion that makes any sense at all, simply because the proof is right there, trying to kill you: the genophage.

Inexplicably, the best Renegade moments are either interrupts that only affect the short-term - these people are going to try to kill me anyway, so why not? - and short threats that even Paragons would make to smooth the wheels of justice.

Otherwise, Rengeade Shep is a drooling idiot. And I'm well aware that Minsc was a drooling idiot too, which means Renegade Shep is REALLY REALLY stupid.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I can be very ruthless but there were some decisions I just could not do. Why would I choose to wipe out the colony on Feros for example? That option makes no sense.

[lobi]

ReconTeam wrote...

I can be very ruthless but there were some decisions I just could not do. Why would I choose to wipe out the colony on Feros for example? That option makes no sense.

Because it is quicker. When lying doctor gets out mako keep going you have a galaxy to save.

[GodWood]

It's k.
I can't play a pure paragon Shep without wanting to strangle him.

[ExtremeOne]

I have no problem in being a bad boy aka as a renegade player .

[Bluko]

Seboist wrote...


You can justify keeping the Geth data from Tali on the grounds that it's classified Alliance information. It's really no different than keeping the Cerberus data from the Shadow Broker.

I guess... though considering you just find the data in a random Geth base it doesn't seem like it really belongs to the Alliance. Also you realistically you should hand it over to the Council since you're Spectre. Still seems pretty harmless to give it to the Quarians, also they'll probably know how to make the best use of it.

I don't really understand how the data could be that sensitive unless it includes weapons information or something to that effect. After all at that time the Geth are considered a threat to every organic race. So everyone will just be better armed to combat the Geth. Also I somehow doubt the Alliance has the means to fight all the Geth alone. The Geth I imagine after 300 years are probably the strongest military force in the galaxy since they know organics fear them. The Geth don't have to worry about currency or trade, so they are free to basically build all the military stuff they want.

Although the driving philosophy behind Renegades is to leave Humanity better off then everyone else.  So ensuring Humanity has an more knowledge on the Geth is playing things the politically strong way.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

The funny thing is, during my first playthrough, Conrad was kind of creeping me out already. I knew that this could not end well no matter what, so I never ended up finishing that quest. It's the only ME1 quest that I started and didn't finish.

And you know what? Just giving him you autograph the first time, and then never talking to him again? Apparently that is absolutely the best thing for him, becasue then you never see him again pulling all that crazy stuff he pulls whether you finish his quest Paragon or Renegade. So from then on, that's what I did most of the time.

[M-Sinistrari]

It'd probably be easier for some to play Renegade if the actions didn't fluctuate between appropriately ruthless and sociopath horrorshow.

For me, Renegade is what you see in the old 70s action films like Dirty Harry, Shaft, Slaughter, Death Wish, Coffey, Truck Turner..etc.. Make the hard choices without shying away from getting dirty about it. On that angle, I've no problem with Renegade choices. But when it's more senseless killing just for the hell of it, then I can't do it.

[Pani Mauser]

I can't play as Renegade too. I think my max renegade score was 224 points or something and Paragon meter is always full, no matter how hard I try. Once I let people on Zaeed's mission die, but after I loaded earlier save, replayed a bit and saved them because I just couldn't bear to hear those people scream in fire.

While some renegade options are fun, and I always take them, most of them are just pointlessly cruel, and it makes me sick.

[GodWood]

Babe Mause wrote...
While some renegade options are fun, and I always take them, most of them are just pointlessly cruel, and it makes me sick.

Examples?

[Pani Mauser]

GodWood wrote...
Examples?

Examples of what? Fun renegade options or of cruel ones?

[GodWood]

Babe Mause wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Examples?

Examples of what? Fun renegade options or of cruel ones?

Examples of renegade options that are "pointlessly cruel" and that make you sick.

Remember you said most do so I'm expecting a big list.

[Asari_Party]

I have a renegon Shepard, but some renegade decisons are just horrible. (I had to reload after Shiala's execution scene - what a pointless exercise)

Modifié par Roxy12, 07 mai 2011 - 06:48 .

[Golden Owl]

Am with you on this Cheez....I have tried renegade runs a few times...those games remain uncompleted, I just can't do it. Yes, the characters may just be pixels, but regardless of that, can't do it. I watch a friend who plays renegade, I spend a lot of time cringing and just thanking god thats not my Shep on their screen. :-)