338 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoWARD23]

 There goes a good morality choice, I hope at least TIM is "grey".

[HTTP 404]

like Loghain?

[PsychoWARD23]

HTTP 404 wrote...

like Loghain?

YES, he was a gerat chracter. TIM was a great character, now it seems like Cerberus is just going to be baddies that you shoot without thinking. 

[jamesp81]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

like Loghain?

YES, he was a gerat chracter. TIM was a great character, now it seems like Cerberus is just going to be baddies that you shoot without thinking. 

I don't shoot them without thinking.

Often times, I consider the merits of shooting them in the head once, or going for a double tap to the chest.

Other times, I'll be pondering what to cook for dinner while I'm hosing down a Batarian with the flame thrower.

[PsychoWARD23]

Basically, more like Loghain, less like Meredith.

[GuardianAngel470]

I really find it interesting how people can not only claim that speculation about something that hasn't been released is fact but then get upset about it.

There have been no facts about Cerberus' motivations, no facts about TIM other than the concept that Cerberus is now an enemy, and yet people still manage to get angry or upset.

Keep in mind, until 20 hours after ME2's release most people still thought that Legion was an enemy. I suspected he wasn't but he was listed as an enemy in Bioware's video.

This effect is truly new to me, I've never been on a video game forum before a game's release to see the speculation-fact syndrome.

Gonna have to do some research into this...

[PsychoWARD23]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I really find it interesting how people can not only claim that speculation about something that hasn't been released is fact but then get upset about it.

There have been no facts about Cerberus' motivations, no facts about TIM other than the concept that Cerberus is now an enemy, and yet people still manage to get angry or upset.

Keep in mind, until 20 hours after ME2's release most people still thought that Legion was an enemy. I suspected he wasn't but he was listed as an enemy in Bioware's video.

This effect is truly new to me, I've never been on a video game forum before a game's release to see the speculation-fact syndrome.

Gonna have to do some research into this...

I've just gotta take what I can get, just trying to start a discussion here.

[XavierHollywood]

eh, i dunno, Cerberus was always black and white to me

[PsychoWARD23]

XavierHollywood wrote...

eh, i dunno, Cerberus was always black and white to me

Pro-Human while doing some questionable things is more grey than working for the Reapers.

[Thompson family]

Cerberus never was gray. It was only acting nice. There are some good people in it, but they never knew what the rest of the organization was up to.

In my playthroughs, I take Miranda on every mission that has a Cerberus mess to clean up: Jack's loyalty mission and Overlord being the big ones. That way her shifting her loyalty to Shep is more understandable.

[candidate88766]

I agree, hopefully Cerberus' morality won't be made black and white.

However, I'm going to assume this thread is based of the info from PC Gamer that said Cerberus is working with the Reapers. Bear in mind Chris Preistly posted in the thread about that article that anything not quoted from Casey Hudson may not be accurate and the comment about Cerberus working with the Reapers was not attributed to Casey in any form so it seems reasonable Chris may've been referring to that.

It seems that PC Gamer heard Cerberus is working against Shepard and (possibly wrongly) assumed that meant they are working for/with the Reapers - this may not be the case and the two could be separate antagonists with different agendas. Bioware specifically said to GameInformer that players wouldn't know why Cerberus is chasing Shepard until the game is released so it seems unlikely that they'd then immediately release said information to a different magazine. It is more likely PC Gamer came to their own conclusion about it, which may or may not be wrong.

Modifié par candidate88766, 06 mai 2011 - 08:15 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Thompson family wrote...

Cerberus never was gray. It was only acting nice. There are some good people in it, but they never knew what the rest of the organization was up to.

In my playthroughs, I take Miranda on every mission that has a Cerberus mess to clean up: Jack's loyalty mission and Overlord being the big ones. That way her shifting her loyalty to Shep is more understandable.

You actually believe that?

That's... trusting. Possibly a bit egotistical as well.

[XFemShepX]

Seriously, dude. We don't even know why TIM is after you. How can you be upset over something you don't even know yet?

[PsychoWARD23]

XFemShepX wrote...

Seriously, dude. We don't even know why TIM is after you. How can you be upset over something you don't even know yet?

According to PC Gamer he's working with the Reapers. Again, not the best source, but....

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Cerberus never was gray. It was only acting nice. There are some good people in it, but they never knew what the rest of the organization was up to.

In my playthroughs, I take Miranda on every mission that has a Cerberus mess to clean up: Jack's loyalty mission and Overlord being the big ones. That way her shifting her loyalty to Shep is more understandable.

You actually believe that?

That's... trusting. Possibly a bit egotistical as well.

As a matter of fact, yes, I do believe that. If Miranda or Jacob or both stick with TIM in the end, my Shep will shoot either one of them or both down. But I do think Miranda would make a mighty fine replacement for TIM as the head of Cerberus and that Jacob's a good soldler that I'd like to have on the team if I can get him.


I do think Miranda needed to see that Cerberus was torturing and killing kids after shipping them to the research site in crates -- if for no other reason than to tone down her self-righteousness.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mind you that Miranda's never denied Teltin was a mistake, both in practice and as a rogue cell.

I've always viewed it as a shame that Miranda's exceptional abilities never went into 'acting.' Her character really does read like one: let Miranda be the bad cop to Jacob's good cop, and whether Jacob is in on the scheme or not let Miranda act in such a way as to play to the Shepard's ego that he/she has 'turned' they loyalist on the basis of things that... were pretty much open for being known by Miranda well before Shepard knew about Cerberus.

[Bad King]

Thompson family wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Cerberus never was gray. It was only acting nice. There are some good people in it, but they never knew what the rest of the organization was up to.

In my playthroughs, I take Miranda on every mission that has a Cerberus mess to clean up: Jack's loyalty mission and Overlord being the big ones. That way her shifting her loyalty to Shep is more understandable.

You actually believe that?

That's... trusting. Possibly a bit egotistical as well.

But I do think Miranda would make a mighty fine replacement for TIM as the head of Cerberus.

You do realise that if it wasn't for TIM, Miranda would have inserted a control chip into Shepard? And she supported the experiments on Thorian creepers and rachni (and in fact she made a valid point regarding them).

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mind you that Miranda's never denied Teltin was a mistake, both in practice and as a rogue cell.

I've always viewed it as a shame that Miranda's exceptional abilities never went into 'acting.' Her character really does read like one: let Miranda be the bad cop to Jacob's good cop, and whether Jacob is in on the scheme or not let Miranda act in such a way as to play to the Shepard's ego that he/she has 'turned' they loyalist on the basis of things that... were pretty much open for being known by Miranda well before Shepard knew about Cerberus.

I don't think we disagree that much, then. Just because I want to Miranda to turn doesn't mean I trust her an inch. My Shep never does, but he doesn't want to give her a pass on Cerberus villainy, either.

Miranda's a hard case, but a slim chance at something beats a sure shot at nothing. And even if Shep can't have her as a friend, he shouldn't antagonize her more than necessary.

He's also trying to build unit cohesion, and Miranda's a big problem there. She's a rival who berates her subordinates. That's the first thing Shep sees when s/he wakes up briefly during the Lazerus project.

My Shep takes Jack on Miranda's loyalty mission, for instance, smply to show Jack that Miranda does care about something. Miranda's pushy, giving pre-emptive orders. Sheps decision to give Jack full access to her Cerberus files is as much motivated by the need to put Miranda in her place as gaining the loyalty of Jack.

In the end, though, it is notable that Miranda's confidence breaks down: "We all knew this was probably a one-way trip." "We're here to beat the Collectors but I plan to live to tell about it" is my Shep's immediate reply -- and they all do. In the end, Shep's a better leader than Miranda. She could learn a lot from him/her, and recognizes that in the end.

It's often overlooked that Miranda salutes Shep as they are on their way to the Omega 4 relay and the suicide mission. That's the first time Miranda does that anywhere in the game.

EDITED P.S.

You do realise that if it wasn't for TIM, Miranda would have inserted a
control chip into Shepard? And she supported the experiments on Thorian
creepers and rachni (and in fact she made a valid point regarding them).

And shot a long-time associate down on the Lazurus escape pod deck during her and Shep's first exchange.

Yes, Miranda is dangerous — too dangerous to be ignored.

"Enemies must either be cajoled or crushed. Men will avenge themselves for small wrongs. For great ones, they cannot," — Nicolio Machiavelli.

Modifié par Thompson family, 06 mai 2011 - 09:44 .

[Someone With Mass]

Seriously? No-one saw that 180 coming?

It's a gang of terrorists. Stabbing people in the back is what they do. Literally, sometimes.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seriously? No-one saw that 180 coming?

It's a gang of terrorists. Stabbing people in the back is what they do. Literally, sometimes.

Yes "terrorists" spend billions on reviving someone, spend billions more giving him a better ship than he had before and then allow him free reign to do decisions the head "terrorist" himself says he would have done differently.

Nuh uh..

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

Yes "terrorists" spend billions on reviving someone, spend billions more giving him a better ship than he had before and then allow him free reign to do decisions the head "terrorist" himself says he would have done differently.

Nuh uh..

They've been declared terrorists by the Alliance and the Council, and I've read about their "deeds" so that's what I'm going with.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't think Someone With Mass understands what a terrorist is.

Regardless, Bioware never really did a good job making TIM "gray" in a way that most people would accept.

Hey, smartass. Nobody asked about what you think I know.

[Bad King]

Arcian wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 There goes a good morality choice, I hope at least TIM is "grey".

You are implying they and TIM ever stopped being black. Just because Shepard agreed to work with them doesn't mean they're good, upstanding guys with good ultimate goals.

You know those super-rare occasions when a hero and a villain teams up to defeat someone/something much worse? Yeah, Shepard and Cerberus was one of those.

That history is over.

I always thought he was morally grey in that he is ruthless and has funded a lot of unethical experiments but in doing so hoped to save lives and strengthen humanity's place in the galaxy.