Maybe even the best one, I was trying to go as Paragon as possible but I almost let him kill Sidonis. It was great, the tension was insane. Then finally I let him go, and felt I had made the right choice. Also hunting him down while talking to a rage/revenge-induced Garrus was awesome.
Unpopular opinion; Garrus' loyalty mission was easily a top three Loyalty mission.
Débuté par
PsychoWARD23
, mai 06 2011 08:24
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#2
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:25
Clonedzero
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you let sidonis live? whats wrong with you?!
next time. let garrus take the damn shot!
next time. let garrus take the damn shot!
#3
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:26
Thompson family
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Yes, that was a good one. The internet comic "Penny Arcade" has the two main characters talking about it with excitement in one installment.
#4
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:26
Paraxial
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Clonedzero wrote...
you let sidonis live? whats wrong with you?!
next time. let garrus take the damn shot!
No. Your opinion is wrong.
#5
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:27
Someone With Mass
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I honestly didn't know you could gain his loyalty by sparing Sidonis until a few months ago. Always thought that if you didn't let him pop Sid in the back of the head, he'd be pissed off like any other character would've been and abort the mission and all that.
#6
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:32
ADLegend21
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I thought the same and haven't let him Kill sidonis since.Someone With Mass wrote...
I honestly didn't know you could gain his loyalty by sparing Sidonis until a few months ago. Always thought that if you didn't let him pop Sid in the back of the head, he'd be pissed off like any other character would've been and abort the mission and all that.
#7
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:37
Darius Vir
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ADLegend21 wrote...
I thought the same and haven't let him Kill sidonis since.Someone With Mass wrote...
I honestly didn't know you could gain his loyalty by sparing Sidonis until a few months ago. Always thought that if you didn't let him pop Sid in the back of the head, he'd be pissed off like any other character would've been and abort the mission and all that.
Yep. Same and same.
#8
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:37
Thompson family
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True story.
I gave a lecture to more than 50 journalism students attending a conference at the University of Central Arkansas in Conway.
My theme was ethics. Here's how that talk began:
"My topic today is ethical challenges for beginning journalists. Well, the ethical challenges for beginning journalists are exactly the same as the ethical challenges for veteran journalists. The biggest challenge is one you will face from your first day in this job to the last. Here it is --
"The lines between good and evil blur when we're looking at people we know."
"That quote is from a video game. I'll quote Socrates and Jefferson later. That quote is the best summary of the biggest dilemma you will face in this profession.
"You will meet thousands of people in this job. You will get to know hundreds -- some of them only briefly, but your interview with them about something they care about will be more intense than any conversation you have with some of your co-workers for years. You will like some of these people. You will not like others. You will tend to believe the ones you like. You will not want to believe people you don't like. Those likes and dislikes are blinders, and a bias you will struggle against every day ..."
I gave a lecture to more than 50 journalism students attending a conference at the University of Central Arkansas in Conway.
My theme was ethics. Here's how that talk began:
"My topic today is ethical challenges for beginning journalists. Well, the ethical challenges for beginning journalists are exactly the same as the ethical challenges for veteran journalists. The biggest challenge is one you will face from your first day in this job to the last. Here it is --
"The lines between good and evil blur when we're looking at people we know."
"That quote is from a video game. I'll quote Socrates and Jefferson later. That quote is the best summary of the biggest dilemma you will face in this profession.
"You will meet thousands of people in this job. You will get to know hundreds -- some of them only briefly, but your interview with them about something they care about will be more intense than any conversation you have with some of your co-workers for years. You will like some of these people. You will not like others. You will tend to believe the ones you like. You will not want to believe people you don't like. Those likes and dislikes are blinders, and a bias you will struggle against every day ..."
Modifié par Thompson family, 06 mai 2011 - 08:40 .
#9
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:39
didymos1120
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Someone With Mass wrote...
I honestly didn't know you could gain his loyalty by sparing Sidonis until a few months ago. Always thought that if you didn't let him pop Sid in the back of the head, he'd be pissed off like any other character would've been and abort the mission and all that.
There was apparently going to be a failure condition for that mission, going by some bits of unused dialogue. Interestingly, it seems like it would have involved him killing Sidonis, but after you've tried and failed to talk him out of it, so that he ends up feeling even more conflicted and unsettled.
#10
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:43
PsychoWARD23
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Thompson family wrote...
True story.
I gave a lecture to more than 50 journalism students attending a conference at the University of Central Arkansas in Conway.
My theme was ethics. Here's how that talk began:
"My topic today is ethical challenges for beginning journalists. Well, the ethical challenges for beginning journalists are exactly the same as the ethical challenges for veteran journalists. The biggest challenge is one you will face from your first day in this job to the last. Here it is --
"The lines between good and evil blur when we're looking at people we know."
"That quote is from a video game. I'll quote Socrates and Jefferson later. That quote is the best summary of the biggest dilemma you will face in this profession.
"You will meet thousands of people in this job. You will get to know hundreds -- some of them only briefly, but your interview with them about something they care about will be more intense than any conversation you have with some of your co-workers for years. You will like some of these people. You will not like others. You will tend to believe the ones you like. You will not want to believe people you don't like. Those likes and dislikes are blinders, and a bias you will struggle against every day ..."
That's awesome, haha.
#11
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:47
AdmiralCheez
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This wins so hard, I don't even.Thompson family wrote...
*epic post in which a videogame is quoted in a lecture*
And yes, Garrus' LM is one of my favorites, as well. Not only did the game dupe me into caring about Garrus almost as much as I'd care about a friend in real life (seriously, it was heartbraking watching my imaginary best bud lose his temper and turn completely ruthless), but the mission itself forced me to make a call: What truly is justice, anyway? What does it really mean to be a good guy?
And yeah, the tension was ARLKJGTS:ERLJHFSDL!!1!!1
#12
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:50
Dean_the_Young
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I don't know about the OP's opinion being unpopular, but I do disagree with it. I think Garrus flopped in terms of character development during ME2 as a whole, and a mediocre
ME2 was effectively a giant 'reset' on the development that marked Garrus in ME1. At the start, Garrus was a compassionate Renegade, and Shepard served as a mentoring figure for how that should go. By the end, whether he went Paragon or Renegade, Garrus established his own position and was moving forward with it, and even had the overtures of going Spectre.
Putting him on Omega with the exact same rational either way mooted all that: there was no real reason for him to be there, as opposed to being a vigilante elsewhere, and it never reflected his prior development. His fixation on Sidonis, and a near total lack of dialogue about any of the choices or happenings anywhere else regressed his development, and at the end of his loyalty we were re-making the exact same choice that was supposed to mark him in ME1: do we push him Paragon or Renegade?
At the end of ME2, Garrus as a character is exactly where he was at the end of ME1, with the exception that you could re-do the ME1 Paragon/Renegade inclination if you wanted. It was poor, wasted opportunities at characterization, mitigating all prior development, and since Loyalty Missions are supposed to expand and reveal a character, a decent combat mission couldn't salvage that.
I mean, really. They should have worked within the ME1 development to determine how Garrus would respond, and then they could have turned the Sidonis choice into a variable loyalty decider in order to work and further development. The 'right choice' would have depended on ME1's characterization, as opposed to no wrong choice ever.
For example:
If Garrus was paragonized in ME1, then Sparing Sidonis is the choice that will put Garrus at ease, cementing his development into a Paragon. Having already adopted a Paragon mindset, murdering Sidonis won't sit well with Garrus. In Paragon's mindset, killing wouldn't solve anything, and doing so would eat at Garrus's thoughts. WIthout being able to move, and still fixated on Sidonis's death, Garrus is 'unloyal' (though not Personally hostile to Shepard) and suffers in capability.
On the other hand...
If Garrus was made Renegade during ME1, then killing Sidonis is the good option: Garrus's emotions are sated, his sense of justice fulfilled, and he can move on. But if Sidonis is spared, then Garrus's already developed Renegade morality is in turmoil: Sidonis was allowed to escape justice while good men and women died, and nothing Sidonis can do will right the wrongs he did. Sidonis's survival troubles and turmoils Garrus, who is thus 'unloyal' because he can't focus on the mission.
And finally, if Garrus's ME1 mission was not done, or if he was not recruited, either option is acceptable to the 'neutral' Garrus.
This minor change to the loyalty mission would have made Garrus's development actual development, rather than repition, and would also have brought in a choice from ME1 in a 'choices matter' perspective.
ME2 was effectively a giant 'reset' on the development that marked Garrus in ME1. At the start, Garrus was a compassionate Renegade, and Shepard served as a mentoring figure for how that should go. By the end, whether he went Paragon or Renegade, Garrus established his own position and was moving forward with it, and even had the overtures of going Spectre.
Putting him on Omega with the exact same rational either way mooted all that: there was no real reason for him to be there, as opposed to being a vigilante elsewhere, and it never reflected his prior development. His fixation on Sidonis, and a near total lack of dialogue about any of the choices or happenings anywhere else regressed his development, and at the end of his loyalty we were re-making the exact same choice that was supposed to mark him in ME1: do we push him Paragon or Renegade?
At the end of ME2, Garrus as a character is exactly where he was at the end of ME1, with the exception that you could re-do the ME1 Paragon/Renegade inclination if you wanted. It was poor, wasted opportunities at characterization, mitigating all prior development, and since Loyalty Missions are supposed to expand and reveal a character, a decent combat mission couldn't salvage that.
I mean, really. They should have worked within the ME1 development to determine how Garrus would respond, and then they could have turned the Sidonis choice into a variable loyalty decider in order to work and further development. The 'right choice' would have depended on ME1's characterization, as opposed to no wrong choice ever.
For example:
If Garrus was paragonized in ME1, then Sparing Sidonis is the choice that will put Garrus at ease, cementing his development into a Paragon. Having already adopted a Paragon mindset, murdering Sidonis won't sit well with Garrus. In Paragon's mindset, killing wouldn't solve anything, and doing so would eat at Garrus's thoughts. WIthout being able to move, and still fixated on Sidonis's death, Garrus is 'unloyal' (though not Personally hostile to Shepard) and suffers in capability.
On the other hand...
If Garrus was made Renegade during ME1, then killing Sidonis is the good option: Garrus's emotions are sated, his sense of justice fulfilled, and he can move on. But if Sidonis is spared, then Garrus's already developed Renegade morality is in turmoil: Sidonis was allowed to escape justice while good men and women died, and nothing Sidonis can do will right the wrongs he did. Sidonis's survival troubles and turmoils Garrus, who is thus 'unloyal' because he can't focus on the mission.
And finally, if Garrus's ME1 mission was not done, or if he was not recruited, either option is acceptable to the 'neutral' Garrus.
This minor change to the loyalty mission would have made Garrus's development actual development, rather than repition, and would also have brought in a choice from ME1 in a 'choices matter' perspective.
#13
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:51
Nashiktal
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I loved the story aspect to Garrus' loyalty mission. The gameplay leading up to it was... Meh. I didn't really care for the level design, and for some reason Garrus was dying more frequently than normal.
#14
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:53
ADLegend21
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But despite all this I'd say Garrus's isn't a top 3, my top 3 are Miranda, Thane and Legions. Miranda's was great because we saw her under pressure and emotional, Thane's because of the ninja stalking (and Techno Turian) and Legions' because that is easily one of the most morlly ambiguous decisions in Mass Effect. Plus Legion lamenting was awesome. Garrus is in the top half though.
#15
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 08:58
Someone With Mass
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didymos1120 wrote...
There was apparently going to be a failure condition for that mission, going by some bits of unused dialogue. Interestingly, it seems like it would have involved him killing Sidonis, but after you've tried and failed to talk him out of it, so that he ends up feeling even more conflicted and unsettled.
Wow.
Can't say I'd miss those dialogues.
#16
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:00
didymos1120
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The only thing that really bugs me about Garrus' loyalty is the fact that they forgot to put something in the background during the final conversation to block out the endless void that exists outside the level so that we get to watch the Unreal Engine do that LSD tracers thing.
#17
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:02
jamesp81
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ADLegend21 wrote...
I thought the same and haven't let him Kill sidonis since.Someone With Mass wrote...
I honestly didn't know you could gain his loyalty by sparing Sidonis until a few months ago. Always thought that if you didn't let him pop Sid in the back of the head, he'd be pissed off like any other character would've been and abort the mission and all that.
It's always a hard decision for me, but I usually talk him out of killing Sidonis.
It's not because I don't think Sidonis doesn't deserve to be punished. Garrus is my bro, however, and I want what's best for him. I'm not sure ventilating Sidonis is something that will be good for his emotional well-being down the road.
#18
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:05
PsychoWARD23
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Nashiktal wrote...
I loved the story aspect to Garrus' loyalty mission. The gameplay leading up to it was... Meh. I didn't really care for the level design..
Agreed.
#19
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:14
AdmiralCheez
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That's a good idea, Dean, but after everything that happened to Garrus post-ME1, I can't blame him for backsliding.Dean_the_Young wrote...
This minor change to the loyalty mission would have made Garrus's development actual development, rather than repition, and would also have brought in a choice from ME1 in a 'choices matter' perspective.
I mean, think about it--his mentor dies, the whole Reaper thing gets swept under the rug, and even though the Citadel was almost destroyed by Sovereign, nothing changes. The big issues are ignored. Everything stagnates, and he's trapped in a Groundhog Day-type loop like everything he'd done with Shepard never happened.
So, out of frustration, he leaves it all behind to take up an impossible cause. The galaxy is too stupid to change, so might as well make its last hours a little better for for the downtrodden, you know? But then people start joining his cause, and suddenly he has hope that maybe he'll accomplish something real after all...
... And then it all goes to hell, because one of the people he trusted, one of the people that made him think things like virtue matter, stabs him in the back. Garrus is stuck in a constant loop of great ambition and greater disappointment. I don't blame him for losing it.
There really is no excuse for the lack of conversations with him, though.
Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 06 mai 2011 - 09:15 .
#21
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:23
Nashiktal
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Calibrations have turned into a curse word for me.
#22
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:23
Konfined
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I agree with you OP, I love Garrus' loyalty mission. I have absolutely no problem letting Garrus take the shot though.
#23
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:35
Guest_Arcian_*
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I cannot overstate how appropriate your Turk avatar is in this context.
EDIT: Even SS'ed it for great justice.
Modifié par Arcian, 06 mai 2011 - 09:42 .
#24
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:41
Raiil
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I really liked Garrus's loyalty mission. I literally just finished doing it with my renagon, and I let him drill Sidonis in the brain stem.
I see Garrus as a good guy willing to go to the limit to do what he views as the right thing. Sidonis killed off people seeking to do right in the world, people frustrated with corruption or hoping for redemption. I tried to see it through the lens of 'what if it were my team?' and I immediately thought of someone trying to knife Garrus in the back or snap Thane's neck- two people trying to make the galaxy a brighter place being killed by a traitor.
I'd have shot the son of a b--ch myself.
I see Garrus as a good guy willing to go to the limit to do what he views as the right thing. Sidonis killed off people seeking to do right in the world, people frustrated with corruption or hoping for redemption. I tried to see it through the lens of 'what if it were my team?' and I immediately thought of someone trying to knife Garrus in the back or snap Thane's neck- two people trying to make the galaxy a brighter place being killed by a traitor.
I'd have shot the son of a b--ch myself.
#25
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 09:43
Guest_Arcian_*
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You're doing Sidonis a favor by killing him. True punishment would be to let him live with what he did.Valentia X wrote...
I really liked Garrus's loyalty mission. I literally just finished doing it with my renagon, and I let him drill Sidonis in the brain stem.
I see Garrus as a good guy willing to go to the limit to do what he views as the right thing. Sidonis killed off people seeking to do right in the world, people frustrated with corruption or hoping for redemption. I tried to see it through the lens of 'what if it were my team?' and I immediately thought of someone trying to knife Garrus in the back or snap Thane's neck- two people trying to make the galaxy a brighter place being killed by a traitor.
I'd have shot the son of a b--ch myself.
