462 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, no no. I want you to try and think critically here. What was the goal in this case? The goal was to kill a man. So thus when Shepard suddenly decides, at the end, that the goal is wrong he is making a fool of himself. Consider what he just did to try and reach that goal in the first place. Was it really necessary to kill all those people just to let Sidonis go? Why didn't you give Garrus his pep talk at the begining? All those mercs wouldn't have lost their lives.

Because Garrus was determined to go with or without you in either way, and there'd probably be little Shepard could say to change his mind, but when he heard Sidonis' side of the story, it became easier to convince him it was wrong, and that Sidonis is already suffering for what he did.

And don't take the mercs into count. We're killing them by the dozens on almost every mission. They're a part of the gameplay.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's like you are intentionally missing the point.

No, I'm just saying that parts of the gameplay mechanics should not be mixed with the story.

[lolwut666]

Saphra Daden isn't even willing to entertain the possibility of accepting an opinion other than his own.

Arguing with him is pointless.

Go post on a nicer thread, y'all.

[Someone With Mass]

And you're mixing gameplay with story again...

[lolwut666]

@Saphra Deden

The fact that you enternain your own opinions makes that statement quite ironic.

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

like casually gunning down 40 dudes to learn the location of the guy that your shepard apparently doesnt want to kill, but all those rent-a-cop blue suns are prefectly fine to kill cus they dont have names!

Hence why videogame logic is broken.  Shepard can't go grocery shopping without killing three dozen mooks.

"Toombs!  Don't kill that scientist!  Killing is wrong!  Please ignore all the mercs I gunned down to get here!"

It's one of those weird disconnects that doesn't make sense, like how medigel works on a geth and why Jack can fling YMIRs around like ragdolls in cutscenes but fails against them in actual combat.  It could have been fixed, yes, but I'm not going to lose sleep at night over how I was railroaded into shooting a bunch of dudes.

It really doesn't help that they started shooting at you as soon as you landed, or that the level prohibited you from leaving once you started playing.  Paragons are forced to needlessly shoot bad guys for the same reason Sole Survivors are forced to get along with TIM and people who don't like Liara have to be nice to her in LotSB.  The game forces you to be OOC.  You can't blame the player for that.

A stealth segment, however, would have been cool.  Pity they didn't include it.

[Clonedzero]

it just really does seem out of place though, going through all that effort to track sidonis down. and the whole logic of "garrus would regret killing him"

did you read garrus' shadowbroker files? his confirmed influential kills on omega? he forcefully OD'd a guy with red sand by shoving it down his face and into his eyes. i dont think he'd regret shooting sidonis AT ALL lol. also killed a quarian serial killer by ripping its mask off and coughing in his face. so yeah. killing sidonis wouldnt make garrus feel bad.

[AresXX7]

Valentia X wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Depends on your point of view- or rather, how your Shepard sees it. I don't believe in mindless killing but there are some people who deserve a blade in the spine. Sidonis is one of them. My renagon Shep agrees.

The guy outright says he can't live with it.

And people change. Who knows how he'll feel ten years from now?

Has anyone clicked on the news station (the one with Emily Wong) after sparing Sidonis?
She says he turned himself into C-Sec, there's some blah blah about it being on Omega, but he does try to seek atonement.

[didymos1120]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

"Toombs!  Don't kill that scientist!  Killing is wrong!  Please ignore all the mercs I gunned down to get here!"

Um, that doesn't have to be the rationale for not killing him there.  You can go the "Think about it genius: he knows stuff" route too.

[JaerWolfe]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

If by 'awesome' you mean his loyalty mission turns Garrus into a hypocrite and a coward, then yes. His LM is the most awesome ever.

Killing a coward in a cowardly fashion?  Nah, that's how Garrus rolls.  He has a thing for, ahem, irony.

I'm not sure what you're intending me to read with that link...can you summarize?
I liked Garrus until his LM broke the character for me. None of my Shep's will support the cowardly shooting in the back of an unarmed and non threatening person. Especially in front of innocent civilians who would be traumatized by the death...of course, that's more irony for you. Garrus went to Omega to protect the innocent. He went to the Citadel not caring a rat's hindquarter about them.
Had Garrus chosen to take Sidonis out in a private location and either given Sidonis a gun or fought him hand to hand with skills Garrus had to have picked up in either C-Sec or the Turian Military, I would have had no problem with him killing him. Garrus chose a public location. He chose to shoot in the back an unarmed person who was no threat to anyone...and was, in fact, trying to get away. Those are the actions of a coward.

[lolwut666]

lolwut666 wrote...

I don't think it's about punishing Sidonis; it's about showing Garrus that there's more to justice than just killing people.

Garrus makes think of that phrase that goes "He who fights monsters might take care lest he thereby becomes a monster". I think it summarizes his situation perfectly.

Ignored posts make me a sad panda.

And stopping Garrus is not about sparing him the regret. You're showing him that killing isn't always the best option.

[Clonedzero]

lolwut666 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

I don't think it's about punishing Sidonis; it's about showing Garrus that there's more to justice than just killing people.

Garrus makes think of that phrase that goes "He who fights monsters might take care lest he thereby becomes a monster". I think it summarizes his situation perfectly.

Ignored posts make me a sad panda.

And stopping Garrus is not about sparing him the regret. You're showing him that killing isn't always the best option.

like not killing loads of mooks to give garrus that all important heart to heart that killing is wrong? just make sure you wash out that blue sun blood, might make you look like a hypocrit

[lolwut666]

@Clonedzero

They were armed and hostile.

Shepard and co. did *not* go there to kill the Blue Suns. They wanted to get the information about Sidonis out of Harkin.

Harkin sics the Blues Suns on Shepard and co.

What did you expect them to do?

Modifié par lolwut666, 06 mai 2011 - 10:51 .

[Clonedzero]

JaerWolfe wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

JaerWolfe wrote...

If by 'awesome' you mean his loyalty mission turns Garrus into a hypocrite and a coward, then yes. His LM is the most awesome ever.

Killing a coward in a cowardly fashion?  Nah, that's how Garrus rolls.  He has a thing for, ahem, irony.

I'm not sure what you're intending me to read with that link...can you summarize?
I liked Garrus until his LM broke the character for me. None of my Shep's will support the cowardly shooting in the back of an unarmed and non threatening person. Especially in front of innocent civilians who would be traumatized by the death...of course, that's more irony for you. Garrus went to Omega to protect the innocent. He went to the Citadel not caring a rat's hindquarter about them.
Had Garrus chosen to take Sidonis out in a private location and either given Sidonis a gun or fought him hand to hand with skills Garrus had to have picked up in either C-Sec or the Turian Military, I would have had no problem with him killing him. Garrus chose a public location. He chose to shoot in the back an unarmed person who was no threat to anyone...and was, in fact, trying to get away. Those are the actions of a coward.

Noted Criminal Deaths on Omega
Rhi'hesh Shurta (gang leader)

-Headshot

Selkeet Shirion (gang enforcer)

-Headshot

Kron Harga (slaver)

-Gunshot wounds (all extremeties and primary organs)
-Rifle butt fracture to face
-Third-degree burns to most of body (explosive crate)

Har Urek (saboteur)

-Suffocation (enviromental suit malfunction)

Gus Williams (weapons smuggler)

-Headshot (smuggled weapon)

Thralog Mirki'it (red sand dealer)

-Chemical overdose (red sand, direct contact with all four eyes)

Zel'Aenik nar Helash (viral specialist, serial killer)

-Cough



and i dont think its cowardly at all. its just efficient. garrus is an expert marksman, why not take advantage of that and draw him into a perfect spot for a clean shot? why risk letting him get away in some other method of murder?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

So are you roleplaying that Garrus will sneak out of the Normandy at night if Shepard doesn't take him? I mean if you shoot him down he's take it okay. All Shepard says is "We've got to focus on the mission right now, but if we have time..." (or something to that effect). What, to you, indicates that Garrus will turn on you and sneak away?

I don't see Garrus eat anything either. Does that mean he doesn't eat anything at all? 

[Clonedzero]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Clonedzero

They were armed and hostile.

Shepard and co. did *not* go there to kill the Blue Suns. They wanted to get the information about Sidonis out of Harkin.

Harkin sics the Blues Suns on Shepard and co.

What did you expect them to do?

kill the first 2-3 in self defense then back off and leave?

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

it just really does seem out of place though, going through all that effort to track sidonis down. and the whole logic of "garrus would regret killing him"

did you read garrus' shadowbroker files? his confirmed influential kills on omega? he forcefully OD'd a guy with red sand by shoving it down his face and into his eyes. i dont think he'd regret shooting sidonis AT ALL lol. also killed a quarian serial killer by ripping its mask off and coughing in his face. so yeah. killing sidonis wouldnt make garrus feel bad.

Maybe it's less about how he'll feel about it in the end and more about him eventually losing the compassion that keeps him from being a complete monster?

I never saw Garrus' LM as an opportunity to save Sidonis.  It was about saving Garrus.  I got a glimpse of his dark side when he beat up Harkin, and I don't want that little outburst to define who he is.  You can point the finger at me for forcing my morals onto other people all you want, but if you saw your best friend repeatedly making self-destructive decisions, wouldn't you do something about it?  If they tried to jump in front of a moving train, wouldn't you catch them and pull them back?

I doubt this will have a huge effect on ME3, and I know this one incident probably won't push him over the edge, but still, as much as Sidonis probably deserved it, is it worth killing Garrus, too?

Granted, I let Sidonis die in half of my playthroughs, since hey, if someone turned on me and got all the people I cared about killed?  Damn straight I'd put a bullet in his head.  However, at least in my paragon runs, I can't stand to see Garrus destroy himself.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, they just got in between you and the man you did want to kill until you changed your mind and walked away.

That Garrus wanted to kill.

[lolwut666]

Saphra Deden wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Shepard and co. did *not* go there to kill the Blue Suns.

No, they just got in between you and the man you did want to kill until you changed your mind and walked away.

If Harkin had given Shepard and co. the information, nobody would have died. He ran away and let his mooks fight for him.

Stop using troll logic.

And Shepard asked to TALK TO SIDONIS before letting Garrus kill him. Shepard decided to urge Garrus not to kill him because of what Sidonis said, not because he was dead set on sparing him.

And you actually think your opinions are intelligent... Try using common sense, will ya?