29 réponses à ce sujet

[bossk-office]

I was just playing Act of Mercy on Nightmare for the first time, as a mage. Going pretty well even though we’re all injured except Anders. Then the Templar Hunter spawns and we really unload on him. Crushing Prison, Horror, everything. I really thought we had him. He does not have a lot of health left ... but then he goes into his backflip.

Pause! What do I do?! Everything’s on cooldown.

Run like hell!!

And we do. Kite for the far end of the map!

Finally he comes out of stealth, fifteen feet behind our backs. Ha ha, gotcha, Templar Hunter! Keep running for a bit, then we all attack.

First thing that happens is he assassinates Aveline, one-shot kill. After running behind her for three or four seconds. She had turned to face him and was attacking. I thought he could only do that when he came out of stealth! Was this a glitch or did I misunderstand assassins?

Modifié par panchamkauns, 06 mai 2011 - 09:55 .

[SuicidalBaby]

they have 2 attacks
backstab: same animation as PC
2 downward daggers: this ability resembles assassinate in just about every sense.

your first move should to have been some form of cc or to recognise who the hunter was targeting and proceed to kite with that character while the rest of the group finished him off.

[brazen_nl]

First rule with assassins: Don't get hit.

They like Dog, and if they cloak, decloak them.

[bossk-office]

Thanks!

[AreleX]

Brittle -> Archer's Lance CCC will DESTROY Assassins (and your team too, if you aren't careful). This is made even better by the fact that Cone of Cold can hit them out of stealth.

Check my Mage tutorial thread/Mage guide to get tips on dealing with Assassins.

[Siham]

brazen_nl wrote...

if they cloak, decloak them.

How do you decloak them? Assuming my Hawke is not a mage (she's a rogue) and i therefore don't have Pull of the Abyss for example.

[mr_afk]

I think Jack-Nader had some luck with rush.
Otherwise you could try using merrill or anders to use cone of cold, mind blast, chain lightning (on a nearby enemy), or maybe firestorm or wounds of the past (though these are less likely to unstealth).

[Darqion]

I think all the AOEs can get them out of stealth provided the force dealt is big enough. As AreleX mentions, cone of cold can do it (although my personal experience with this skill isnt that good for this)... firestorm, mindblast

I do love Archer's Lance but as AreleX said, it can, and in my case, will always kill one of my team members

[Siham]

I forgot to say i play on Nightmare, with friendly fire AOEs are not always a good idea

[mr_afk]

Almost all the talents that are used to unstealth enemies are friendly fire aoe ablities. This is due to the way you need to aim an aoe at them as you lose the ability to target them once they start their cheeky backflip into your face. The exception to this rule is chain lightning (and maybe walking bomb) as the lightning will leap from your target and hit the stealthed assassin if it's close enough. 

The only non-ff aoe spells are tempest, haemorrhage/wounds of the past (and dispel, which is irrelevant here). I don't think tempest will hit stealthed targets but I think i've managed to haemorrhage and stop an assassin mid-flip via its stun property. The only non-ff ability that will affect stealthed enemies is fatiguing fog (and maybe confusion) - though that will just slow them and won't unstealth them.

Thus you probably should just get good at aiming your aoe just get your companions immune to them. e.g. if you specialise in fire you can drop firestorms on your warriors if they have runes of fire warding and elemental aegis.


And yeah, darqion's right. It's all about the force of the spell - which is why some spells/abilities are better than others.

Modifié par mr_afk, 07 mai 2011 - 10:23 .

[Att3r0]

about outrinning them - its tricky busines. They will backstab as normal but you can kite with char that is getting targeted = win. Or you can stun them / taunt / any other CC and as they lose target they lose their backstab - however they will stealth directly .

[brazen_nl]

Siham wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

if they cloak, decloak them.

How do you decloak them? Assuming my Hawke is not a mage (she's a rogue) and i therefore don't have Pull of the Abyss for example.

Have you tried using a grenade?

[Darqion]

I rather have 1 or 2 guys mindblasted then have them get hit with a backstab, just sayin

[Siham]

brazen_nl wrote...

Have you tried using a grenade?

No, i didn't think there was a grenade which could decloak an assassin. I will check this ingame, thanks for the tip.

[SuicidalBaby]

if you have another target attacking your shield wearing warrior and are not to far from the spot where the rogue entered stealth, you can position the warrior to face the spot with the visable enemy between the two and time a Shield Bash or Scatter to reveal the rogue. 2h warriors can Scythe or Whirlwind.

[brazen_nl]

Siham wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

Have you tried using a grenade?

No, i didn't think there was a grenade which could decloak an assassin. I will check this ingame, thanks for the tip.

Here's a demonstration of it during Best Served Cold. Both grenades work, but I find it easier to do with the one that does lots of fire damage. The other grenade is also nice, as the rogue will be stunned, even if you do not succesfully decloak him but you had the right spot. Takes a while to see if it works.

[wowpwnslol]

If you're a rogue, assassinate them yourself after they hit your party member.

Modifié par wowpwnslol, 08 mai 2011 - 10:26 .

[Roeding]

Siham wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

if they cloak, decloak them.

How do you decloak them? Assuming my Hawke is not a mage (she's a rogue) and i therefore don't have Pull of the Abyss for example.

As a rogue I find Decoy wonderfull against assassins, put up the decoy as soon as he stealths and give him a nice surprise as he backstabs it :-)

[ezrafetch]

mr_afk wrote...

I think Jack-Nader had some luck with rush.

I've been doing this too (mostly because my interest was piqued when Jack-Nader said it worked, and I felt curious enough to see if it's reliable).  It does work, but you have to be careful with your aim because you can't target an area, you can only target an enemy, but outside of that it works like a charm.  So when an assassin stealths I reposition myself to put an enemy between me and the assassin (but the assassin still in range of Rush) and use Rush to knock 'em out of Stealth.  Even at really low levels it works pretty well.  Miss, though, and you might be screwed.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 15 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[mr_afk]

oh cool! I'll be sure to try that out on my next playthrough.

If you don't upgrade it does it do no friendly fire damage (only knock people over)?
And is it necessary to upgrade it to get enough force to de-stealth assassins?
I'm considering assigning proper rush tactics to Varric and maybe giving it to Isabela.
Atm i've set it so whenever an enemy gets too close to him I get to see him rush forward and knock them over (which somehow is really hilarious...it must be the height differences).

Not sure how I would go about tactics for it though...
enemy:short range- use for next tactic
enemy: elite or above- rush
wouldn't work/be a waste as he would just knock them over when they aren't stealthed/be unable to target them when they do stealth... blahh, i'll just leave my rushing to my rogue playthrough

Modifié par mr_afk, 15 mai 2011 - 03:57 .

[ezrafetch]

mr_afk wrote...

oh cool! I'll be sure to try that out on my next playthrough.

If you don't upgrade it does it do no friendly fire damage (only knock people over)?
And is it necessary to upgrade it to get enough force to de-stealth assassins?
I'm considering assigning proper rush tactics to Varric and maybe giving it to Isabela.
Atm i've set it so whenever an enemy gets too close to him I get to see him rush forward and knock them over (which somehow is really hilarious...it must be the height differences).

Not sure how I would go about tactics for it though...
enemy:short range- use for next tactic
enemy: elite or above- rush
wouldn't work/be a waste as he would just knock them over when they aren't stealthed/be unable to target them when they do stealth... blahh, i'll just leave my rushing to my rogue playthrough

As far as I know, it should only inflict force if it's un-upgraded.  I haven't really bowled over teammates since I don't really aim towards them, but it doesn't inflict damage to enemies so it shouldn't inflict FF too.  I'm not sure about the upgrades: there's a damage-adding upgrade and a range upgrade.  So my guess is that if you're just looking to destealth, then you don't need either upgrade, but an AoE attack / mini-CC skill for a Rogue would be pretty solid, I think, so I don't think there's a real reason to not get both upgrades if you move to grab Rush.

Varric would get penalized for clipping so often with the way he bowls over opponents via Rush

If you want the tactic just so Varric/Isabela can clear some space for themselves, I'd think Rush would be good for that.  But they won't be able to sniff out stealthed assassins, so that's a bummer.  If each character in the party had some anti-stealth mechanism I'd say that'd be really solid.  You'd just have to micro Isabela/Varric if you needed their Rush to de-stealth assassins, so it depends on how much you like doing all that.

Maybe there should be an "Anti-Assassin Guide" in the forums, since they basically are the hardest enemies to kill in the game and they're way too numerous for having that title.  List of AoEs/skills/itamz that will de-stealth, and tactics for each, companion tactics/skills to be anti-assassin, etc etc etc.  I think a lot of people would refer to it.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 15 mai 2011 - 04:16 .

[mr_afk]

Hm, i'm up for that - if You/Arelex/Suicidal/etc.etc. don't really want to write it?

I could do it tonight after I finish editing and referencing my essays.. Bloody things, took up my whole weekend haha. I need a break/relaxation anyway, and guide writing is always fun


Edit: Okay, I'll start writing the guide now

Modifié par mr_afk, 15 mai 2011 - 06:04 .

[Jack-Nader]

Rush is an awesome ability. Nobody uses it because it does SFA damage. It should be used as a crowd control talent.  Rush doesn't knock down teamates.  I don't think it damages them either.

Here are the uses for rush:=
Knocks down ogres, assassins, enemy hominoids.
Decloaks assassins.
Knocks hominiods into Firestorms
Knocks lone hominoids infected by walking bomb into groups of enemies for big explosions. My personal favourite
Scatters enemy hoards.
No fuss method of protecting your mages quickly when they are being attacked.

I use it all the time. It's uses are strewn throughout all my speed run videos. When I get ~ 6 minutes worth of footage I will string them all together and upload them.

If you stick rush on isballa, sebastion and varric it should best be used as an Enemy elite or higher -=> rush or ally being attack by melee -> Rush.  Very good defensive tactic.  Needless to say, I am not concerned about assassins anymore after witnessing how badly rush owned them during my brekker run.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 15 mai 2011 - 05:21 .

[mr_afk]

Courtesy of Urban Dictionary;
SFA: Stupid ****ing Acronym. A (usually clunky) acronym made up to make something stupid sound less stupid.
"I'm sick of those TSA nuts making us strip at the airport. What, does TSA stand for Those Stupid ****s?"
"Whatever dude, it's just another SFA."


Hahaha j/ks. I'm pretty sure it's referring to Sweet/Something **** All as I doubt he's saying simply ****ing amazing. Urban Dictionary seem to have failed us.