Anybody who saw the Enemies of Mass Effect 2 trailer knows that Legion was said to be a villian. Supposedly meant to be hunting and stalking you through the game.
Now I was dissapointed when I found no sign of him at all two-thirds through the game, but I did like that he became a squad member.
What are your thoughts? Do you think that Legion should have featured more heavily as a villian in the game, as someone who is Shepard's "Perfect Nemesis". Someone who can match Shepard blow for blow or were you content on having him be a squad mate and forge an uneasy alliance with the geth?
(Also do you think that Kai Leng should fill the role I mentioned previously about Legion in ME3?)
Legion - Hero or Villian? (And a word about Kai Leng)
Débuté par
An Irate Hobo
, mai 06 2011 09:59
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#2
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:01
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Legion as a villain would have been weird considering geth don't have personalities and a villainous Legion would have no reason to speak to you.
Ultimately I'd rather Legion not exist at all.
As for Kai Leng, I don't know. I'd much rather have a man like him on my team. Though I suppose he would make an effective anti-Shepard. He was an N7 marine after all.
Ultimately I'd rather Legion not exist at all.
As for Kai Leng, I don't know. I'd much rather have a man like him on my team. Though I suppose he would make an effective anti-Shepard. He was an N7 marine after all.
#3
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:01
AdmiralCheez
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Yes and yes. However, I expect a mini-boss fight with Kai Leng, or perhaps having to choose between him and a Spectre or something.
Geth squadmate was full of win.
Geth squadmate was full of win.
#4
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:05
Seboist
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I half-expect Legion to continue developing emotions that were hinted at in ME2 and have a crisis of identity on whether to remain as part of the collective or to serve alongside Shepard as an individual.
#5
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:06
Collider
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To be honest, I thought they were pressing too hard in favor of the geth.
#6
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:11
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Collider wrote...
To be honest, I thought they were pressing too hard in favor of the geth.
Legion ruined the geth. His dispelled all the mystery and indeed, made the geth out to be way too nice. It just seems weird considering the geth's history and current behavior.
"Really we're nice guys, but sometimes we commit genocide oh and anyone who sets foot on our lawn we shoot on sight with no questions asked."
I'd rather Legion not exist at all. Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
If we let the same people who wanted a geth squadmate dictate who we get on the squad in these games we'd wind up with an elcor, volus, a hanar, and maybe a vorcha. They'd turn the squad into a comedy troop.
The fans are dumb.
#7
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:13
An Irate Hobo
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Seboist wrote...
I half-expect Legion to continue developing emotions that were hinted at in ME2 and have a crisis of identity on whether to remain as part of the collective or to serve alongside Shepard as an individual.
I would love to see that but it depends on whether he is a squad member for ME3. My theory is he is on the Quarian homeworld (the name escapes me) as the Quarians go to war in ME3 (apparently).
But I wouldnt be surprised to see that identity crisis play a part in ME3
#8
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:13
Someone With Mass
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
Yes and yes. However, I expect a mini-boss fight with Kai Leng, or perhaps having to choose between him and a Spectre or something.
Geth squadmate was full of win.
This. I don't care what people say, I thought it was a neat twist.
#9
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:17
AdmiralCheez
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If Boiware did that, they'd be taking the advice of a fan, and thus would still be listening to the fans.Saphra Deden wrote...
Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
PARADOX.
#10
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:19
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
If Boiware did that, they'd be taking the advice of a fan, and thus would still be listening to the fans.Saphra Deden wrote...
Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
PARADOX.
Not if BW thought of it first!
#11
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:20
An Irate Hobo
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Collider wrote...
To be honest, I thought they were pressing too hard in favor of the geth.
Legion ruined the geth. His dispelled all the mystery and indeed, made the geth out to be way too nice. It just seems weird considering the geth's history and current behavior.
"Really we're nice guys, but sometimes we commit genocide oh and anyone who sets foot on our lawn we shoot on sight with no questions asked."
I'd rather Legion not exist at all. Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
If we let the same people who wanted a geth squadmate dictate who we get on the squad in these games we'd wind up with an elcor, volus, a hanar, and maybe a vorcha. They'd turn the squad into a comedy troop.
The fans are dumb.
Dont forget Batarian. If this team is going to be a true comedy troop then we need an "Odd Couple" style piring between Shepard and a Batarian squad member
But I do have to agree with you on the shooting on the lawn. You cant expect the Heretics to be responsible for every bad thing done by the Geth, can you?
#12
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:21
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams
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As I have said many times before, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him. Deception is a quality these advanced robotic beings have shown to posses, and it's the only non-hostile interaction with Geth we ever have in the ME series. I will never be able to trust Legion.
#13
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:40
Eradyn
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I love Legion. I'm glad players had the option of activating them and gaining a geth ally. I look forward to seeing how they develop in ME3...and for the Quarians' sake, I hope they listen to my Shep before going to war.
#14
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:43
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Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
As I have said many times before, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him. Deception is a quality these advanced robotic beings have shown to posses, and it's the only non-hostile interaction with Geth we ever have in the ME series. I will never be able to trust Legion.
Shepard ain't the sharpest tool in the drawer. If he trusts a mentally unstable career criminal like Jack to roam around the dark underbelly of the ship unsupervised, then he might as well trust a Geth to be the in the ship's..... A.I core.
#15
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:47
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Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
As I have said many times before, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him. Deception is a quality these advanced robotic beings have shown to posses, and it's the only non-hostile interaction with Geth we ever have in the ME series. I will never be able to trust Legion.
Why do I get the feeling it's just because people working with Cerberus doesn't trust him either...
Oh...right. Predictable.
#16
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 10:53
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Someone With Mass wrote...
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
As I have said many times before, I don't trust Legion farther than I can throw him. Deception is a quality these advanced robotic beings have shown to posses, and it's the only non-hostile interaction with Geth we ever have in the ME series. I will never be able to trust Legion.
Why do I get the feeling it's just because people working with Cerberus doesn't trust him either...
Oh...right. Predictable.
Why should people trust Legion in a realistic scenario? By it's own account it's not even an individual and never guarantees any long term peace with organics.
#17
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:02
Someone With Mass
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In a realistic scenario? We're talking about the same game, right? Where this ancient machine race is taking control over clones, and ships can travel near the speed of light thanks to alien ruins we found on Mars?
#18
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:06
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My suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Though I suppose you'd be happy no matter what happened, huh, Someone With Mass? If Shepard turned into a cartoon you still dutifully suck on Bioware's teat.
#19
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:06
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Someone With Mass wrote...
In a realistic scenario? We're talking about the same game, right? Where this ancient machine race is taking control over clones, and ships can travel near the speed of light thanks to alien ruins we found on Mars?
It's a role playing game where we can imagine ourselves in the shoes of Commander S. So yeah.
#20
Guest_Arcian_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:54
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Collider wrote...
To be honest, I thought they were pressing too hard in favor of the geth.
Legion ruined the geth. His dispelled all the mystery and indeed, made the geth out to be way too nice. It just seems weird considering the geth's history and current behavior.
"Really we're nice guys, but sometimes we commit genocide oh and anyone who sets foot on our lawn we shoot on sight with no questions asked."
I'd rather Legion not exist at all. Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
If we let the same people who wanted a geth squadmate dictate who we get on the squad in these games we'd wind up with an elcor, volus, a hanar, and maybe a vorcha. They'd turn the squad into a comedy troop.
The fans are dumb.
#21
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:59
Eradyn
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If my suspension of disbelief enables me to accept reapers, biotics, paradox-less faster than lightspeed travel, heatsinks, and asari reproductive methods...I can handle Legion being a platform for some "good geth." It's really not that difficult and it's certainly not nearly the most brain-breaking turn of events I've had to accept throughout Mass Effect.
#22
Guest_mrsph_*
Posté 06 mai 2011 - 11:59
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Honestly, I wish Legion's geth were the minority faction instead.
It just makes Legion's look worse off when they let a genocidal faction run around without even attempting to warn anyone, and the whole shooting down any ship that enters their space raises further questions.
It just makes Legion's look worse off when they let a genocidal faction run around without even attempting to warn anyone, and the whole shooting down any ship that enters their space raises further questions.
#23
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 02:22
V-rex
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I liked Legion, a lot. He was by far the most interesting character in the Mass Effect 2 teammate list and raised more interesting questions about philosophy and what it meant to be 'alive'. Truth be told I wish there was more time for him to develop, rather than having him be shoved to the side until the very end.
Because what little we get to see of him is very intriguing. The N7 armor bit in particular I found very interesting because it implied that Geth had the capacity to do random things driven more by emotion than logic, but at this point couldn't understand that implication.
As it stands I like the idea of presenting the Geth as neither perfect paragons of peace or evil monsters of murder. Geth are ambigious, neither all the way evil nor all the way good. Like every other race in the galaxy.
Frankly I liked the fact that they fleshed out the Geth. It's better then having another tired 'graaa they is all evilz by default becase the iz geth and robobts!1!!!11!1!!!'. Here there's actually a bit of moral ambiguity.
To the people who talk about how the Geth shoot down every ship that goes into their system, how many ships do you think entered Geth Space with intent to be friendly? Or to trade? Or to sightsee?
I always imagined that the vast majority of times it was either Alliance or Council scouts for a larger military group, a Quarian attack fleet trying to reclaim the homeworld, or a science team trying to bring back bits of Geth for study.
In which case, the Geth have a right to fight back.
Also as for the Quarian-geth war business. I won't play the card of 'the Quarians tried to initiate war first' even though I think that's a fair point and we have no evidence to suggest the Geth collective would have attacked if they didn't feel threatened. But I will point out that we don't really know how the majority of that conflict took place, for the most part we have it from the perspective of Quarians who weren't there and would be biased towards the enemy considering they lost.
If Legion is to be believed 98% of all Geth-Quarian interactions that ended in violence were instigated by Quarians and that whenever they thought they had a chance, they would always return to the fight. For all we know the great genocide of the Quarians could have been a slow thing that was the result of the war continuing to stretch far longer then it had to because the Quarians were just as interested in continuing it as the Geth.
Either one could be lying or embelishing the truth, true. But I don't see what makes Legion less reliable then say, Tali, as an account for a war that happened over three hundred years ago.
But still that's all just stuff at the top of my head. To summarize, I thought it was great to have Legion be part of the team and his presence gave some much needed depth to the Geth. I also see no reason not to trust Legion, if Legion ever wanted to sabbotage the mission or kill Shepard he could have done it ages ago. He was given access to the Normandy's systems and was in the AI core for f*cks sake.
I trust Legion, and I liked having Legion around. No team is ever complete without a kickass robot.
As for Kai Leng? Sure, give me a boss fight with Kai. Could be fun.
Because what little we get to see of him is very intriguing. The N7 armor bit in particular I found very interesting because it implied that Geth had the capacity to do random things driven more by emotion than logic, but at this point couldn't understand that implication.
As it stands I like the idea of presenting the Geth as neither perfect paragons of peace or evil monsters of murder. Geth are ambigious, neither all the way evil nor all the way good. Like every other race in the galaxy.
Frankly I liked the fact that they fleshed out the Geth. It's better then having another tired 'graaa they is all evilz by default becase the iz geth and robobts!1!!!11!1!!!'. Here there's actually a bit of moral ambiguity.
To the people who talk about how the Geth shoot down every ship that goes into their system, how many ships do you think entered Geth Space with intent to be friendly? Or to trade? Or to sightsee?
I always imagined that the vast majority of times it was either Alliance or Council scouts for a larger military group, a Quarian attack fleet trying to reclaim the homeworld, or a science team trying to bring back bits of Geth for study.
In which case, the Geth have a right to fight back.
Also as for the Quarian-geth war business. I won't play the card of 'the Quarians tried to initiate war first' even though I think that's a fair point and we have no evidence to suggest the Geth collective would have attacked if they didn't feel threatened. But I will point out that we don't really know how the majority of that conflict took place, for the most part we have it from the perspective of Quarians who weren't there and would be biased towards the enemy considering they lost.
If Legion is to be believed 98% of all Geth-Quarian interactions that ended in violence were instigated by Quarians and that whenever they thought they had a chance, they would always return to the fight. For all we know the great genocide of the Quarians could have been a slow thing that was the result of the war continuing to stretch far longer then it had to because the Quarians were just as interested in continuing it as the Geth.
Either one could be lying or embelishing the truth, true. But I don't see what makes Legion less reliable then say, Tali, as an account for a war that happened over three hundred years ago.
But still that's all just stuff at the top of my head. To summarize, I thought it was great to have Legion be part of the team and his presence gave some much needed depth to the Geth. I also see no reason not to trust Legion, if Legion ever wanted to sabbotage the mission or kill Shepard he could have done it ages ago. He was given access to the Normandy's systems and was in the AI core for f*cks sake.
I trust Legion, and I liked having Legion around. No team is ever complete without a kickass robot.
As for Kai Leng? Sure, give me a boss fight with Kai. Could be fun.
Modifié par V-rex, 07 mai 2011 - 02:23 .
#24
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 02:27
Someone With Mass
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Saphra Deden wrote...
My suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Though I suppose you'd be happy no matter what happened, huh, Someone With Mass? If Shepard turned into a cartoon you still dutifully suck on Bioware's teat.
#25
Posté 07 mai 2011 - 02:27
V-rex
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Saphra Deden wrote..
I'd rather Legion not exist at all. Sometimes you need to ignore the fans.
Okay, I'll make sure Bioware knows to ignore you.
Seriously though, wasn't the first ever trailer for Mass Effect 2 a depiction of a Geth wearing Shepard's N7 armor? Couldn't that imply that Legion had been planned to be in it from the start? And that fans had nothing to do with it?
That said to a point, I do agree with you. Sometimes you shouldn't tweak a game to ridiculous amounts to please fans. Or make changes to the games story because the fans demand it. Because if Mass Effect 3 was made without any authorial intent and only with what fans wanted to see, let's be honest, it would probably be pretty lame.
But still, that's not to say a little fan recognition isn't a bad thing...
