10 réponses à ce sujet

[Elynwyd]

 I was wondering what are people's choices when it comes to altering a specific npc's class kit and why. Do you change them according to your party setup, based on lore, or simply because you think a certain class applies better to someone in particular?

I am planning to make a character from scratch and finish BG2 SoA all the way through ToB.

Using this Mod i think the only npc's i would have to change are Minsc, Nalia, Aerie, Jaheira, Viconia and possibly Mazzy taking into account their past, what they stand for and what class (after all what really matters here) fits them best.

Minsc: i think Minsc was never meant to be a ranger in the first place. Not only is his wisdom way too low (a ranger's minimum wisdom is 14 according to the character creation screen), but his recklessness rather make him a barbarian or a fighter of sorts. Quotes like "The bars... they bend and twist with my berskerker strenght" or "Swords, not words!" or even " Armored, sharpened and raring to go!" only prove the fact that he is indeed a warrior type. Now, should he be a berserker wielding a huge 2-handed sword or a barbarian dual-wielding axes and flails? Hard to decide. Either way, that would be more like him.

Nalia: Don't ask me why but i always pictured Nalia as the "Keira Knightley from Pirates of the Caribbean" of Athkatla. I changed her to a swashbuckler dual-wielding scimitars (the best possible aproximation of a pirate thief in my opinion, more so because she is chaotic good - the kind of pirate with good intentions but little use for laws and regulations), but considering her family's connection to magic and the like changing her to a mage wouldn't be a bad choice also (she becomes an archmage of power and even joins the Council of Six by the end of SoA). But she keeps mentioning that sometimes at night she sneaked out of her castle to help the poor. So now i can't decide which class fits her best. I don't want to dual-class her and if i had to pick mage she would definitely be the good aligned conjurer version of Edwin. Remember that if Edwin leaves, there will be no single class mage left.

Aerie: Not sure here either but i would probably stick to the cleric/mage combo even though she has more mage in her than cleric. If Nalia is to become a swashbuckler then i would make Aerie cleric/conjurer (no divination spells but i get true sight from priest spells).

Jaheira: This one i am almost sure. Avenger kit for her.

Viconia: If not for her worshipping of Shar she would certainly be my full time sorcerer or cleric/assassin. What if i make her a sorcerer, will she be given a symbol of shar nonetheless (holy symbols Mod fix installed)? And if so, is it possible to equip or is it cleric-only item? Either way, i see Viconia more as a powerful drow sorcerer than a pure cleric and there is no cleric of Shar kit!

Mazzy: Well, firstly i changed her to Jester but then noticed halflings can't be bards and her being lawful good also doesn't help if i want to make her an assassin. To me halflings are natural born thieves, small stature and all. Despite her paladin-like attitude i am still unsure whether to specialize her in any melee kit, change her to a short-bow ranger (archer kit) or well, keep her as general fighter.

I would like to hear everyone's feedback regarding this subject! Any suggestions are welcome.

[Elynwyd]

I forgot to mention that i changed Edwin from conjurer to necromancer because i think that from a role-playing perspective it fits his character best. He is evil after all! Do comment please.

[Sparky The Barbarian]

I don't like multi class characters for the most part. I make Aerie a Cleric, Viconia a Cleric/Thief (fits her back story), and Jaheira a single class Druid. I also like to change Minsc to a Berserker.

[Ishad Nha]

In the first ten levels multi-class characters will only be a level or two behind. After that they start to advance much more slowly than others.
Demihumans have pronounced maximum level limits in the pen and paper version of the game, this will become obvious if it is found in BG2.

[Demivrgvs]

My 2 cents (partially quoting myself from a similar discussion).

Imoen: I really cannot see her backstabbing, and with her BG1 attitude Shashbuckler classis is just perfect for her. I started to love her as a single class Swashy (I gave her a custom spellbook item to let her cast a bunch of spells a la BG1 NPC Project), else a Swashy L10 dualclassed to Mage (a powehouse combo).

Minsc: He is a rasheemar warrior on his dajemma, following PnP he sholud be either a Barbarian (I always
use him as such) or a Berserker. Considering his stats and his animal/nature love I do think Barbarian fits him the most. On a side note, due to his low mental stats he shouldn't be able to cast ranger's spells (at least in PnP he wouldn't). Unfortunatley he does have few lines were he calls himself a ranger, thus the solution isn't perfect...in 3E he would have easily be a barbarian-ranger.

Jaheira: Powerplayers often make her a cleric/ranger, but please don't do that, story-wise she is a fighter/DRUID and that's pretty clear.

Yoshimo: His class is fine.

Aerie: Her class is perfect, and a bunch of her banters enforce it.

Anomen: He is a warrior-priest, thus a fighter-cleric, and his story makes that quite clear. Assigning him the Cleric of Helm kit is "sensible" alternative though.

Nalia: I never found a way to make her not a poor version of imoen, except when I used Imoen as a multi M/T. She doesn't seem a "backstabber" too, that's why in my last game I made her a Swashbuckler L5 dual classed to Mage.

Valygar: Both background and his banters suggest two classes: Stalker or Wizard Slayer. Vanilla's WS class is horrible though.

Cernd: His current class MAKES NO SENSE.He's affected by lycantropy and he NEVER talk about it?!? Both Avenger and Totemic Druid are be much more appropriate imo.

Keldorn: Inquisitor class is simply perfect.

Mazzy: Well, she clearly is a wannabe paladin, but she can't be. Her current class is probably the mst appropriate unless you have a mod which introduces the Truesword of Arvoreen.

Jan: Leave him a thief/Illusionist, nothing else suits him better.

Haer'Dalis: A Blade with no doubts.

Viconia: Either a kitted Shadowcloak of Shar (e.g. with Divine Remix ), or a multiclass cleric/thief. She has to be a powerful cleric due to her background (and drow's lore in general).

Edwin: I do think they made him a Conjurer only because such kit is by far the most powerful one for mages. Anyway, almost any specialist mage (especially Conjurer, Invoker and Necromaner) is fine considering Red Wizards are uber specialized mages in PnP.

Korgan: Obviously a Berseker (a Batllerager in theory). One more reason to make Minsc a Barbarian instead and have more variety.

Modifié par Demivrgvs, 07 mai 2011 - 10:38 .

[Grond0]

Elynwyd wrote...
Minsc: i think Minsc was never meant to be a ranger in the first place. Not only is his wisdom way too low (a ranger's minimum wisdom is 14 according to the character creation screen), but his recklessness rather make him a barbarian or a fighter of sorts. Quotes like "The bars... they bend and twist with my berskerker strenght" or "Swords, not words!" or even " Armored, sharpened and raring to go!" only prove the fact that he is indeed a warrior type. Now, should he be a berserker wielding a huge 2-handed sword or a barbarian dual-wielding axes and flails? Hard to decide. Either way, that would be more like him.

Viconia: If not for her worshipping of Shar she would certainly be my full time sorcerer or cleric/assassin. What if i make her a sorcerer, will she be given a symbol of shar nonetheless (holy symbols Mod fix installed)? And if so, is it possible to equip or is it cleric-only item? Either way, i see Viconia more as a powerful drow sorcerer than a pure cleric and there is no cleric of Shar kit!

Mazzy: Well, firstly i changed her to Jester but then noticed halflings can't be bards and her being lawful good also doesn't help if i want to make her an assassin. To me halflings are natural born thieves, small stature and all. Despite her paladin-like attitude i am still unsure whether to specialize her in any melee kit, change her to a short-bow ranger (archer kit) or well, keep her as general fighter.

I would like to hear everyone's feedback regarding this subject! Any suggestions are welcome.

I know I'm clearly in the minority, but I think ranger suits Minsc well - it's in line with his backstory and his animal familiar.  To my mind his berserker tendency and low wisdom are just attributable to that severe blow on the head he had.

I think Viconia is clearly a cleric of Shar (I use Turambar Fixes and Tweaks for this), but am undecided about whether she's a pure cleric or a multi-class.

It may be a bit odd for a halfling, but I can see Mazzy as a monk.

[morbidest2]

Considering that Mazzy easily becomes as good, or better, a fighter than Korgan, it seems a shame to waste her on a non-fighting "profession". Also she's the Susan B. Anthony of the movement for non-humans to be become paladins. If you really see her as a thief, at least make her a swashbuckler.

[Thailog]

Demivrgvs wrote...

Valygar: Both background and his banters suggest two classes: Stalker or Wizard Slayer. Vanilla's WS class is horrible though.

In my experience, the Wizard Slayer is actually a pretty good class, especially if you are fighting against SCSII mages. His best trait isn't his magic resistance (which is pretty negligible until higher levels) but the spell failure penalty on each hit.

Usually, SCSII mages cast ProMW which leaves them vulnerable to normal weapons unless they have a Stoneskin up. However, the Wizard Slayer's spell failure goes right through Stoneskin, which makes him extremely effective in these situations. Naturally, this doesn't work every time as some enemies like Liches and Rakshasas are immune to normal weapons, but most of the humanoid mages can be pumped full of spell failure very quickly using this strategy.


On topic, my personal Level 1 NPC changes are as follows:

Imoen: Swashbuckler or Bounty Hunter
Minsc: Berserker or Barbarian
Jan: Jester
Valygar: Archer or Wizard Slayer
Nalia: Swashbuckler or Bard
Anomen: Fighter/Priest of Helm (NPC Kitpack)

I usually don't alter the other NPCs.

[Elynwyd]

I'm glad we agree on changing Minsc to either barbarian or berserker at least i am not the only one who thinks like that. Grond0 i see your point about his animal companion but do you really see Minsc summoning an animal at his side? That's weird! He and nature don't seem to be in pair at all! But that's your opinion and i respect it.

Now that i've narrowed it to barb/berserk i wonder what weapon styles fit him best. I imagine Minsc wielding 2-handed swords just as him dual-wielding axes and flails, or maces. You know? The kind of weapon a true barbarian would wield.

Thailog i also thought of making Valygar an archer but i'm not sure if it will be the best in the long run. Spellcasting interruptions are good and to add some variety i think a bow expert would be good to have around. All i need is pick him up for mage intense fights (well, and then there's Mazzy too). Racial enemy? I guess it's fair not to change from golem, there are golems in the planar sphere after all so it makes sense.

Morbidest2 i doubt that Mazzy becomes a better fighter than Korgan. I mean, he's a bad-ass axe-man with good solid stats for a fighter. You meant her ranged expertise or?

Demi, i was actually thinking on letting Cernd stay shapeshifter because i read that with some fixes from BG2 fixpack they become better? I am not talking about the shapeshifter rebalance mod, i don't want to be overpowered no fun in that. I am wondering if his original kit is actually competent enough to make it through SoA at least. His stats can be changed also.

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, i like to hear from everyone always.

Modifié par Elynwyd, 07 mai 2011 - 11:54 .

[Elynwyd]

Sparky, the cleric/thief combo (multi-class i suppose) seems interesting but i don't like the idea of backstabbing with blunt weapons.

Also making Minsc a berserker now certainly has its advantages over a barbarian considering the true grandmastery fix.

On a sidenote it's a shame Anomen keeps talking about Helm when it should be Lathander! Boon of Lathander seems pretty good, and mostly because he will be in the front lines most of the time. I dual-wield him by the way, flails and maces.

[EdgeSanity]

Only changes I've made are:

Minsc to Barbarian: I just don't think the ranger who berserks thing makes a lot of sense.  Also, everyone says this guy is great to have in your party for the banters, but I never used him because I felt like vanilla ranger was trash.  I always wished there was a monk and a barbarian NPC.  None of the existing NPCs fit monk, but this is a very good fit.

Cernd to Avenger: Pretty simple--shapeshifter is useless.  It's ironic because within the story you'd think he'd probably be the most powerful NPC.

Keldorn to Cavalier: This one is a bit harder to justify.  Basically, the game almost forces you to take a paladin because of the holy avenger, and I prefer cavalier.

Nalia to Skald: I just feel like "exactly like Imoen except not as good" isn't very creative or interesting.  Bard seems like the most plausible alternative for Nalia, and I really want to try out a skald.

I don't feel too guilty about these changes because the only one that I've made undeniably more powerful is Cernd, and I'm still extremely unlikely to ever use him.

Modifié par EdgeSanity, 23 juillet 2013 - 05:19 .