23 réponses à ce sujet

[Myusha]

 Does he say anything different depending on romance or where you are along the approval bar, right before he blows it up? On the rivalry-side does Justice/Vengeance take over to do the act? Or is  just the same "There can be no compromise!" KA-BOOOM?

[IanPolaris]

Myusha wrote...

 Does he say anything different depending on romance or where you are along the approval bar, right before he blows it up? On the rivalry-side does Justice/Vengeance take over to do the act? Or is  just the same "There can be no compromise!" KA-BOOOM?

No Joy.  It's the same no matter what you do (except he wears black if you helped him during his whole quest and gray if you don't).

-Polaris

[Myusha]

Well that disappoints me entirely. Even the Rivalry Ending disappoints me. Damn you unsatisfactory endings! Damn yoooou!

[Maria Caliban]

In the rivalry ending, you can side with the Templars and he'll help you slaughter the mages.

[IanPolaris]

Maria Caliban wrote...

In the rivalry ending, you can side with the Templars and he'll help you slaughter the mages.

I wasn't able to get him to do that and I tried (and had even rivalmanced him).  He said, "I'd rather die than help the Templars."

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

Maria Caliban wrote...

In the rivalry ending, you can side with the Templars and he'll help you slaughter the mages.

I don't think I've seen anyone say they managed to get that ending except by using the console to set it to happen.  It's generally believed to be either bugged or removed.  (And yes, I know a dev said it was in the game, but anyone can be mistaken.)

To the original question there are some differences.  For instance if you're a romance instead of saying he'll be a martyr and all that lunacy, he thanks you for the past few years and says how deeply sorry he is to have broken your heart.  But if you're asking whether there's any possible ending that doesn't result in a blown up Chantry, there isn't.  You can even warn Elthina and I think Cullen about him planting something in there, doesn't make a bit of difference.  Act III sucks.

[HSHAW]

Rifneno wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

In the rivalry ending, you can side with the Templars and he'll help you slaughter the mages.

I don't think I've seen anyone say they managed to get that ending except by using the console to set it to happen.  It's generally believed to be either bugged or removed.  (And yes, I know a dev said it was in the game, but anyone can be mistaken.)

To the original question there are some differences.  For instance if you're a romance instead of saying he'll be a martyr and all that lunacy, he thanks you for the past few years and says how deeply sorry he is to have broken your heart.  But if you're asking whether there's any possible ending that doesn't result in a blown up Chantry, there isn't.  You can even warn Elthina and I think Cullen about him planting something in there, doesn't make a bit of difference.  Act III sucks.

To be fair, would you expect any game developer to give you the opportunity to block the plot development that the next game will most likely be about before it happens?

[Rifneno]

HSHAW wrote...
To be fair, would you expect any game developer to give you the opportunity to block the plot development that the next game will most likely be about before it happens?

No, I'd expect them to write it in such a way that the player couldn't reasonably prevent it.  Writing it so we have to accept a bunch of contrived nonsense (like the templars not caring that a possessed apostate planted something in the Chantry) and lack of obvious choices (like having Anders arrested or killed after he kills Ella) is just poor writing.

[Maria Caliban]

HSHAW wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You can even warn Elthina and I think Cullen about him planting something in there, doesn't make a bit of difference.  Act III sucks.

To be fair, would you expect any game developer to give you the opportunity to block the plot development that the next game will most likely be about before it happens?

The next game won't be about Anders blowing up the Chantry.

The 'big event' is that the mage circles rebelled. Blowing up the Chantry is dramatic, but it actually separate. Meredith wanted to annul the Kirkwall Circle and the death of Elthina let her do so.

If Anders had simply killed her, things would have turned out the same. If Orsino was exposed as a blood mage, things would have turned out the same. If you convinced Elthina to allow Meredith her Right, things would have turned out the same.

[HSHAW]

Maria Caliban wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You can even warn Elthina and I think Cullen about him planting something in there, doesn't make a bit of difference.  Act III sucks.

To be fair, would you expect any game developer to give you the opportunity to block the plot development that the next game will most likely be about before it happens?

The next game won't be about Anders blowing up the Chantry.

The 'big event' is that the mage circles rebelled. Blowing up the Chantry is dramatic, but it actually separate. Meredith wanted to annul the Kirkwall Circle and the death of Elthina let her do so.

If Anders had simply killed her, things would have turned out the same. If Orsino was exposed as a blood mage, things would have turned out the same. If you convinced Elthina to allow Meredith her Right, things would have turned out the same.

Anders blowing up the Chantry was the spark that ignited the powder keg that is the Kirkwall mage situation. If you took that away there would be no revolt(not until the Grand Cleric died anyway).

[Ryzaki]

Anders blows up Chantry - Friendship
Justice Blows up Chantry - Rivalry

Sadly during the Last Straw the game is bugged so it doesn't notice the rivalry flag. This will be fixed in patch 1.03 which should be out in a few weeks.

And yes Anders will be able to side wih the templars once the bug is gone.

[IanPolaris]

HSHAW wrote...

Anders blowing up the Chantry was the spark that ignited the powder keg that is the Kirkwall mage situation. If you took that away there would be no revolt(not until the Grand Cleric died anyway).

I disagree.  Meredith was itching for the chance to declare a Right of Annulment on his own authority and the only person standing in her way was Grand Cleric Elthina.  Anders probably beat Meredith to the punch.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Honestly it didn't bother me that you could NOT get Anders to side with you if you sided with the Templars. The Templars and Meredith represent all that he hates and stands against, and he is willing to put his life on the line for it.

Given that, if you've sided with the Templars, what are you supposed to do to make him come with you? Kill him?

Honestly, I think it's a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

What does Anders say if Hawke helps him to the point where he asks to provide a distraction, but Hawke refuses to distract the Grand Cleric? Does he still have a little ceremony where he tries to give his pillow to Varric?

[IanPolaris]

LobselVith8 wrote...

What does Anders say if Hawke helps him to the point where he asks to provide a distraction, but Hawke refuses to distract the Grand Cleric? Does he still have a little ceremony where he tries to give his pillow to Varric?

I think so if you friendship/rivalry is high enough for "Questioning Beliefs".

-Polaris

[HSHAW]

IanPolaris wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Anders blowing up the Chantry was the spark that ignited the powder keg that is the Kirkwall mage situation. If you took that away there would be no revolt(not until the Grand Cleric died anyway).

I disagree.  Meredith was itching for the chance to declare a Right of Annulment on his own authority and the only person standing in her way was Grand Cleric Elthina.  Anders probably beat Meredith to the punch.

-Polaris

The question is, would the Kirkwall mages still have enough mages left (considering how frequently Meredith was tranquilling them) that they could defy the Templars and show the world that they could be defied?

[IanPolaris]

HSHAW wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Anders blowing up the Chantry was the spark that ignited the powder keg that is the Kirkwall mage situation. If you took that away there would be no revolt(not until the Grand Cleric died anyway).

I disagree.  Meredith was itching for the chance to declare a Right of Annulment on his own authority and the only person standing in her way was Grand Cleric Elthina.  Anders probably beat Meredith to the punch.

-Polaris

The question is, would the Kirkwall mages still have enough mages left (considering how frequently Meredith was tranquilling them) that they could defy the Templars and show the world that they could be defied?

Good question.  I hadn't thought of that.

-Polaris

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

They didn't need to have any mages left. Everyone saw the Chantry blow up and everyone will know how Meredith was killed.

People just need to keep talking about it to 'show the world'.

[Sabriana]

Maria Caliban wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

You can even warn Elthina and I think Cullen about him planting something in there, doesn't make a bit of difference.  Act III sucks.

To be fair, would you expect any game developer to give you the opportunity to block the plot development that the next game will most likely be about before it happens?

The next game won't be about Anders blowing up the Chantry.

The 'big event' is that the mage circles rebelled. Blowing up the Chantry is dramatic, but it actually separate. Meredith wanted to annul the Kirkwall Circle and the death of Elthina let her do so.

If Anders had simply killed her, things would have turned out the same. If Orsino was exposed as a blood mage, things would have turned out the same. If you convinced Elthina to allow Meredith her Right, things would have turned out the same.

I agree. It was not necesarry to blow up the chantry. It was simply done for the nice Hollywood effect. Like the light-saber, the laser-eyes, the saiyan Meredith, etc.

The Mage rebellion was in the air already. Meredith was already itching for the RoA (Orsino even says so). Showing why the Kirkwall Circle was build on the stairway to hell would've been much better, imo.

If Anders was to be turned into a murderer come hell or high water, he could've simply assassinate Elthina. I'm sure plenty of players would still use the murder knife on him, just for that.

So no, nothing changes. No matter what you do. Even if you completely ignore him, he will still do the same thing.

Modifié par Sabriana, 07 mai 2011 - 06:18 .

[bstrothe]

This is probably the second most frustrating outcome of the DA2 plot for me. I tried reloading all the way back before the deep roads, not doing Anders' personal quest, rivalry, the works, and it had minimal impact on the outcome, he always blows up the chantry, even if you agree to collect the ingredients and then never complete the quest. Apparently he didn't need your help after all.

[Tarante11a]

No. But in 10 years time, in the DLC "DA: Modern Warfare - FIFA Zone" - a crack team of noob-toob wielding footballers will enter a den of terrifying blood-mages and assassinate Anders. The whole DLC will take about 40 mins to play and cost $500,000 to download. It will be awesome.

[Rifneno]

Tarante11a wrote...

No. But in 10 years time, in the DLC "DA: Modern Warfare - FIFA Zone" - a crack team of noob-toob wielding footballers will enter a den of terrifying blood-mages and assassinate Anders. The whole DLC will take about 40 mins to play and cost $500,000 to download. It will be awesome.

...  Sounds about right.

Well, except you didn't mention it giving you a bunch of items better than endgame quest rewards just for opening a chest in Gamlen's house but maybe you just thought that was a given.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Does the rest of the Rivalry dialogue appear in Anders decision scene? Because if he won't side with the Templars but still mentions that Justice that was what caused the destruction of the Chantry then that implies it was removed, but if it still defaults exactly to all the same dialogue as the friendship path that implies there's still the bug.

[Ryzaki]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Does the rest of the Rivalry dialogue appear in Anders decision scene? Because if he won't side with the Templars but still mentions that Justice that was what caused the destruction of the Chantry then that implies it was removed, but if it still defaults exactly to all the same dialogue as the friendship path that implies there's still the bug.

Anders' dialogue at the Last Straw is completely bugged for rivalry. Wait for patch 1.03. 

It ignores the rivalry flag so what you're hearing (he shouldn't be saying Justice blew up the chantry he should be saying he did) is just the friendship dialogue.