498 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Bioware have become fat and lazy with their earlier successes, and it's showing. I'd like to see a younger upstart with much to prove (CD Projekt) show them up.

Of course, Witcher 2 could be a monumental disappointment somehow, and it would be equally entertaining to see the Witcher fanboys go into total meltdown. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 10 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[Pious_Augustus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that people on both sides of the argument are making gross generalizations about the game, and the "other side's" opinions, in an effort to make their side look the most correct. Unlike either side of this discussion, however, BioWare takes into account all the different sides and acknowledges that some people will like what we've done with the game and some will not.

We do not condemn anyone for having or voicing their opinion on our forums, and all constructive feedback is welcome here, so long as it is sincere and not "OMG EAWARE MADE THE WORST GAME EVARZ0RZ!!!!1111!!!" I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever. We can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults.

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

You know, I'm reminded of some of the response to the game when it first came out. Despite the critical acclaim, I was surprised by how many people thought it was boring and painfully repetitive. Hell, there were times where I felt like the combat amounted to a price I had to pay to get to the next plot point. And then, there's all that data supposedly out there about how many people started the game and put it down after a little while.

I don't think that qualifies as "backlash", but I reckon it has a bit to do with the design direction in DA2.

[Cataca]

lobi wrote...

Cataca wrote...
Im also one of those guys, that thinks the story does not lack "epic",  they implemented it horribly tho. 7 or so 1-2 hour long main quest strains, packed in a multitude of sidequests. I said it allready in another thread, but it ended up giving the story as much direction as a drunken panda on a unicycle. 

wait... you saw a drunken panda on a unicycle? THATS AWESOME

I saw it in my mind, theres also a lot of other funky stuff going on there. Drunken Pandas driving vehicles is probably one of the less disturbing pictures you would see there. 

[erynnar]

Cataca wrote...

lobi wrote...

Cataca wrote...
Im also one of those guys, that thinks the story does not lack "epic",  they implemented it horribly tho. 7 or so 1-2 hour long main quest strains, packed in a multitude of sidequests. I said it allready in another thread, but it ended up giving the story as much direction as a drunken panda on a unicycle. 

wait... you saw a drunken panda on a unicycle? THATS AWESOME

I saw it in my mind, theres also a lot of other funky stuff going on there. Drunken Pandas driving vehicles is probably one of the less disturbing pictures you would see there. 

OH, you should charge for guided tours...I want to see what is in  your head now. :happy:

[Cataca]

erynnar wrote...

Cataca wrote...

lobi wrote...

Cataca wrote...
Im also one of those guys, that thinks the story does not lack "epic",  they implemented it horribly tho. 7 or so 1-2 hour long main quest strains, packed in a multitude of sidequests. I said it allready in another thread, but it ended up giving the story as much direction as a drunken panda on a unicycle. 

wait... you saw a drunken panda on a unicycle? THATS AWESOME

I saw it in my mind, theres also a lot of other funky stuff going on there. Drunken Pandas driving vehicles is probably one of the less disturbing pictures you would see there. 

OH, you should charge for guided tours...I want to see what is in  your head now. :happy:

Guided tours would be a problem for me, i tend to loose myself up there far to often. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Pious_Augustus wrote...

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

Someone needs a hug.

[spam image removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[TheTranzor]

Pious_Augustus wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that people on both sides of the argument are making gross generalizations about the game, and the "other side's" opinions, in an effort to make their side look the most correct. Unlike either side of this discussion, however, BioWare takes into account all the different sides and acknowledges that some people will like what we've done with the game and some will not.

We do not condemn anyone for having or voicing their opinion on our forums, and all constructive feedback is welcome here, so long as it is sincere and not "OMG EAWARE MADE THE WORST GAME EVARZ0RZ!!!!1111!!!" I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever. We can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults.

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

Seriously dude... have you looked at what you wrote?  You may be offended by the "Gay supports", but I am offended by your abuse of grammar and your assault on the English language in general.

And no, I will not "put a lolipop in your month", no matter how much you ask. 

[marshalleck]

TheTranzor wrote...

Pious_Augustus wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that people on both sides of the argument are making gross generalizations about the game, and the "other side's" opinions, in an effort to make their side look the most correct. Unlike either side of this discussion, however, BioWare takes into account all the different sides and acknowledges that some people will like what we've done with the game and some will not.

We do not condemn anyone for having or voicing their opinion on our forums, and all constructive feedback is welcome here, so long as it is sincere and not "OMG EAWARE MADE THE WORST GAME EVARZ0RZ!!!!1111!!!" I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever. We can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults.

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

Seriously dude... have you looked at what you wrote?  You may be offended by the "Gay supports", but I am offended by your abuse of grammar and your assault on the English language in general.

And no, I will not "put a lolipop in your month", no matter how much you ask. 

You've been trolled. 

[TheTranzor]

marshalleck wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

Pious_Augustus wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that people on both sides of the argument are making gross generalizations about the game, and the "other side's" opinions, in an effort to make their side look the most correct. Unlike either side of this discussion, however, BioWare takes into account all the different sides and acknowledges that some people will like what we've done with the game and some will not.

We do not condemn anyone for having or voicing their opinion on our forums, and all constructive feedback is welcome here, so long as it is sincere and not "OMG EAWARE MADE THE WORST GAME EVARZ0RZ!!!!1111!!!" I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever. We can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults.

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

Seriously dude... have you looked at what you wrote?  You may be offended by the "Gay supports", but I am offended by your abuse of grammar and your assault on the English language in general.

And no, I will not "put a lolipop in your month", no matter how much you ask. 

You've been trolled. 

Really?  And I didn't even get dinner and a movie first... must have used a roofie on me. 

[DeadLetterBox]

Uh... not really sure how this became about gay supporters or whatever but let me assure you, you don't get rivalry points from Anders because you don't want to be gay. You get them because you don't want *him*. I know because I played a female character and he didn't like my rejection any more than anyone else's.

Some people just do not like to be rejected. Anders appears to be one of those people. Not because he's gay, or because he's straight, or bi, but because he's gone freaking nuts.

Just saying.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

[DeadLetterBox]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

I kind of liked the voiced main character thing, but an option to turn it off and see what you will actually say might be good, if it's manageable within the software.  I'm not sure I understand how it impacted your character creation options, though, unless you just hated one of the voices.  But I do agree that Hawke wasn't a very engaging character.

[erynnar]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

I kind of liked the voiced main character thing, but an option to turn it off and see what you will actually say might be good, if it's manageable within the software.  I'm not sure I understand how it impacted your character creation options, though, unless you just hated one of the voices.  But I do agree that Hawke wasn't a very engaging character.

Yeah but you're still stuck with an clicky interactive movie with commercial breaks while you do side quests as a Fed ex person. I want less movie and more content.

[Sabriana]

erynnar wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

I kind of liked the voiced main character thing, but an option to turn it off and see what you will actually say might be good, if it's manageable within the software.  I'm not sure I understand how it impacted your character creation options, though, unless you just hated one of the voices.  But I do agree that Hawke wasn't a very engaging character.

Yeah but you're still stuck with an clicky interactive movie with commercial breaks while you do side quests as a Fed ex person. I want less movie and more content.

I agree, she wasn't an engaging character. I even started to dislike her for her inactiveness and letting people waltz all over her, imo. The cinematic, or interactive movie issue is also an issue for me.

The voice wasn't bad. However, I couldn't play another Hawke, she got stuck at the beginning of act III for several reasons. First, it was act III which is, imo, an atrocity. Second, I didn't want to do the same stuff all over again, without any deviation from the first play-through. Third, mageHawke and rogueHawke were merging into the same pixel toon all through. Yes, they looked different, but they didn't sound different.

RogueHawke was mageHawke with plastic surgery. I couldn't shake loose from that no matter how hard I tried. It affected my play-through, the few choices I actually had, and the dialogue. I know, it's partially my own fault, but still, I never had that problem with all my wardens. And trust me, I have quite a few of them.

I also need to stay away from Erynnar's posts. It's creeping me out. It's as if she has a direct channel right into my mind. Spooky

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

I kind of liked the voiced main character thing, but an option to turn it off and see what you will actually say might be good, if it's manageable within the software.  I'm not sure I understand how it impacted your character creation options, though, unless you just hated one of the voices.  But I do agree that Hawke wasn't a very engaging character.

Ah, I was being brief so I wouldn't end up writng another multi-paragraph entry...which I guess I am going to do now anyway!

Voiced protagonists limit character creation options because a character voice sounds a certain way, it severely limits the type of personality my characters can be. Hawke never really seems like he could be an evil mad scientist type for instance or a villain. If you wanted dwarves and elves as PC options in DA 3, Bioware would likely have to make a total voiceover for either gender and each race, at least one. That becomes very expensive and very time consuming to do all the voiceovers. When a voice is recorded for one race and two genders, it's complex enough so it forces the game to revolve around such limitations instead of giving the players the choices they enjoyed with a silent protagonist. I would rather have my character creation options back and use my imagination to give them a voice instead of having to listen to someone act out every line in an accent or tone that doesn't fit my characer at all. It's no longer an interactive story, it's me playing Bioware's story and occaisionaly clicking on a dialogue wheel. Origin, race and personality are all taken away, that limits replayability for me quite severely. A fully voiced protagonist is therefore a step backwards to me if this makes any sense. It's early in the morning now so I might just be rambling incoherently.

[Corto81]

erynnar wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I still haven't completed a single playthrough of the first Witcher game. I can't wait to see the reception of Witcher 2; it's so hyped at this point by gamers that it's going to be a pretty dramatic event regardless of whether that reception is positive or negative, moreso than even DA2 I think.

I have, and quite liked it. Now mind you I lost my saves for it *sigh* So I'll probably go with the dev generic choices.

I was just watching a preview of the enviornments on the Witcher 2. Beautiful interactive world. Small town in it more full of life than Kirkwall's big city.

I wonder if backlash of the fans coupled with Witcher's reception will give BioWare pause. And I mean that in a completely neutral way (no biting me, well much. I might like it). 

I haven't played TW1 and DA2 was such a disappointment after it's predecessor that I'm 100% going to try TW2 - simply based of that 01:30 video.

Yes, the game might turn out to be crap (TW2), but DA2 has left me starving for quality RPG.

Which is quite sad, seeing as how BW has been proving my single-played RPG food forever now.
----

And most importantly, The Witcher 2 seems to be done with love. Much like DA:O.
Obviously, I have no evidence it was so, but to me it seems DA2 was done in a cold and calculated fashion to make a quick buck.
Everything about DA:O showed how much passion was put into the game by the devs.
The attention to detail, the codexes, the cut-scenes (IMO best ever game cut-scene, Battle at Ostagar), characters and their depth, exploring the world, beautifl, different places, etc.
DA2? Like I said... Just doesn't show that the devs passion is there. (IMO it just wasn't there)

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Let's just hope the combat is better than the first Witcher, it still looks a little redundant, but it does look better. Hopefully by launch it will have alot of polish...hah, I made a funny.

[Yrkoon]

Pious_Augustus wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think that people on both sides of the argument are making gross generalizations about the game, and the "other side's" opinions, in an effort to make their side look the most correct. Unlike either side of this discussion, however, BioWare takes into account all the different sides and acknowledges that some people will like what we've done with the game and some will not.

We do not condemn anyone for having or voicing their opinion on our forums, and all constructive feedback is welcome here, so long as it is sincere and not "OMG EAWARE MADE THE WORST GAME EVARZ0RZ!!!!1111!!!" I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever. We can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults.

I do not think Dragon Age 2 is the worst game ever but it is not a game we come to expect from Bioware. Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row 2 all push a Liberal Agenda to whatever they think is right and everyone is wrong an intolerant. Bioware games have always been about Choice but it seems we have the Gay Creep in the Dragon Age games more so in Dragon Age 2. I shouldn't get the bad points in Red because I choose not to be gay.

The response I get from Gay supports is even more creepy. Yes you must try it its not real life you must be tolerant and try it, you should just do it its a game. I feel like I am nine and stranger danger is trying to put a lolipop in my month.

  Wait... Wat?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 mai 2011 - 10:59 .

[mopotter]

marshalleck wrote...

Bioware have become fat and lazy with their earlier successes, and it's showing. I'd like to see a younger upstart with much to prove (CD Projekt) show them up.

Of course, Witcher 2 could be a monumental disappointment somehow, and it would be equally entertaining to see the Witcher fanboys go into total meltdown. 

Well, personally, if they turned into a witcher clone, I'd probably end up just replaying games i allready own.  I don't play many games that have a main character you have no choices about, male or female.  I do play some, but they are my 2nd choice not my first.  I have two in my game library Force Unleashed and Force Unleashed 2.

BioWare still gives me the most important things I look for in a game.  The ability to play male or female; Story; Good NPC characters that I love, like and hate; and a bit of romance.  I've no interest at all in playing watcher and I tried Assassin's creed1 and 2 and took them back.

DA:2 was not perfect but it wasn't the worst game I've ever played.  BioWare games are not on my worst game list, yet.  I don't finish games I consider boring or uninteresting and those are on my worst game list.  Worst games are personal.

My hope is that they are still making games that they want to play which was the original premise of the company.  I don't know if it's still true or not, but I hope so.  They are never going to be able to please everyone and I'm sure they know that.  If they are doing a job they hate - that leads to depression and illness.  

[mopotter]

mochen wrote...

I agree with Ryllen Laerth Kriel on the voiced PC issue. I have created hundreds of wardens (I don't use all of them though! haha) and each one had a different personality when I was making them.

I've played DA2 once, and I've had enough of Hawke now. I couldn't go thorough the whole game again as exactly the same character. I'd get bored.

Having a voice doesn't bothered me.  I actually like it and was surprised that I did.  But, every character I've ever played had a voice yelling - kill him, onward, drat my spell didn't work,  - and I always picked the same voice no mater what my character was like so having a character actually say the lines is just one step up from background noice to me.

What wold be nice is if there were a voice slider so you could twitch it a little.  Maybe someday.  

[Akka le Vil]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I personally do not believe that Dragon Age II is the worst game ever, nor do I believe it is the best game ever.

Man, that took some guts to admit !

More seriously, I'm pretty sure you understand what was the point of the question, and it's not something that can be easily answered with the usual PR canned speech.
It's just not believable that you could honestly think that some of the most outrageous things were going to be well accepted (chiefly waves, rushing the game and the constant reuse of the same settings) nor is it any more believable either that EA had nothing to do with the said rushing despite repeated assurance that you were still the masters of your own destiny and that EA just gallantly gave you funding.

Considering that, I highly doubt it's a surprise that DA2 had a very mixed reception.

But of course, it's not really possible to openly say "yeah, they just made a mess of everything and I hate this", nor "we just went to make easy money, and you suckers still bought it by the million" or something else that would be more frank and direct. Not that I hold it against you, mind you, it's the same everywhere.
But you can of course understand (and you're already pretty aware, no doubt) that nobody but the most hardcore fanboys is actually satisfied with the canned commercial answers.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

mopotter wrote...

mochen wrote...

I agree with Ryllen Laerth Kriel on the voiced PC issue. I have created hundreds of wardens (I don't use all of them though! haha) and each one had a different personality when I was making them.

I've played DA2 once, and I've had enough of Hawke now. I couldn't go thorough the whole game again as exactly the same character. I'd get bored.

Having a voice doesn't bothered me.  I actually like it and was surprised that I did.  But, every character I've ever played had a voice yelling - kill him, onward, drat my spell didn't work,  - and I always picked the same voice no mater what my character was like so having a character actually say the lines is just one step up from background noice to me.

What wold be nice is if there were a voice slider so you could twitch it a little.  Maybe someday.  

Well it is more prevalent feel stuck with a character identity if the entire dialogue is voiced as opposed to a choice of reactionary blurbs for combat and clicking on the character for selection. I wouldn't mind the fully voiced protagonist if it didn't end up restricting the players to picking a single race in character creation. Dwarves and elves would sound different than a human. And I feel it does stick the player with a certain tone to the main character which we can't avoid. It would be nice, if the main character has to be fully voiced, if there was a switch to turn that option off so the character would be silent and allow players who do like to assign the character it's own voice could enjoy regaining that level of interactivity with the game.

My fear is that the presence of a full voiceover will always lead to having a pre-set main character in some way, limiting the freedoms of player character creation which were once enjoyed, even if we can switch off the player voice. Hawke being human is a perfect example. Even if his/her voice could be switched off, the responses lack variety and the character will always be the same human from the same, singular origin. The concept of "Origins" was a much hyped game feature which drew alot of attention (and then praise) with the launch of the first game. It's odd that Bioware abandoned it so quickly. The story didn't improve, it was tossed together in a very sloppy way and so what is the point of the character creation limitations on the players of the game? I sure can't find any, it is a very bad overall game design decision in my opinion.
 
Video games, to me, should be about interactivity and letting the players of them have influence, sometimes even at the cost of a "cinematic" experience. Afterall, video games aren't cinema so they shouldn't try to be. If Bioware wants a cinematic experience, let them make a movie or write another book with a fixed protagonist set in Thedas. Which leads to another issue I have with the character of Hawke. He/she seems to be very important in the history of Thedas, yet seems to have little say in the goings-on of DA 2. Several of the Warden's political and personal decisions from DA:O are outrightly ignored in DA 2, so why make the main character of DA 2 such an important figure? Perhaps that is why Hawke comes off as such a drab character to me. Perhaps it was intentional to not let Hawke make any significant decisions because the factions and characters in DA 3 are already planned out.

[mopotter]

 Ryllen Laerth Kriel.  I just spent an hour, between heating dinner and other distractions writing a super intelligent and interesting reply (believe me  it was riviting)  to your comment, agreeing with some things, giving my impression on others and when I went to submit, it glitched and everything went to another deminsion.  So I will just say I see your point, agree with some of it but not all and maybe try again later or tomorrow.