498 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Sabriana wrote...

erynnar wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

On paper the story for DA 2 sounds good. But Hawke is boring, I never really found myself caring for his/her family members and the voiced main character gimick restricted most of my dialogue options and character creation options while not paying off with a more "cinematic"(I hate that buzz-word) presentation than Origins. It just comes across as an unwieldy mess to me.

I kind of liked the voiced main character thing, but an option to turn it off and see what you will actually say might be good, if it's manageable within the software.  I'm not sure I understand how it impacted your character creation options, though, unless you just hated one of the voices.  But I do agree that Hawke wasn't a very engaging character.

Yeah but you're still stuck with an clicky interactive movie with commercial breaks while you do side quests as a Fed ex person. I want less movie and more content.

I agree, she wasn't an engaging character. I even started to dislike her for her inactiveness and letting people waltz all over her, imo. The cinematic, or interactive movie issue is also an issue for me.

The voice wasn't bad. However, I couldn't play another Hawke, she got stuck at the beginning of act III for several reasons. First, it was act III which is, imo, an atrocity. Second, I didn't want to do the same stuff all over again, without any deviation from the first play-through. Third, mageHawke and rogueHawke were merging into the same pixel toon all through. Yes, they looked different, but they didn't sound different.

RogueHawke was mageHawke with plastic surgery. I couldn't shake loose from that no matter how hard I tried. It affected my play-through, the few choices I actually had, and the dialogue. I know, it's partially my own fault, but still, I never had that problem with all my wardens. And trust me, I have quite a few of them.

I also need to stay away from Erynnar's posts. It's creeping me out. It's as if she has a direct channel right into my mind. Spooky

I do!!!! Ooooohhh oohhhhhhh!

[Harcken]

Why can't Bioware just admit DA2 has flaws; it seems like the devs like dreaming up two sides: the forums and the mystical DA2 lovers. I mean, come on, I'm sure someone loved nba elite 10, but that doesn't mean it was good.

I look at Dragon Age 2 kind of like Assassin's creed. People love the concept of assassins and the backstory just like everyone here loves the idea of a medieval fantasy crpg and the lore behind the world of Dragon Age. However, Ubisoft manned up, accepted the flaws in AC1, and fixed a whole bunch of them for AC2. That wasn't until the marketing and interviews for AC2 coming out though; so we'll see what happens when Dragon Age 3 comes out. I think Bioware is almost out of the denial phase by now (at least I hope so for the sake of rpg appetite)...

Modifié par Harcken, 11 mai 2011 - 04:38 .

[Yakko77]

The game was good but it could've been great. Lost opportunity.

[ChaosUndivded]

while i do believe DA2 wasn't all that it could have been, i don't blame bioware.. i do however blame EA for been a lame cookie-cutter publisher. DA2 is, as far as i can see, a fantasy version of mass effect, right down to the gestures used by npcs and the conversation system.. if bioware was working under a decent publisher, i have no doubt that it would have been a far superior release, but unfortunately EA are in the business of making carbon copy games (look at all the battlefield releases)

[Yakko77]

ChaosUndivded wrote...

while i do believe DA2 wasn't all that it could have been, i don't blame bioware.. i do however blame EA for been a lame cookie-cutter publisher. DA2 is, as far as i can see, a fantasy version of mass effect, right down to the gestures used by npcs and the conversation system.. if bioware was working under a decent publisher, i have no doubt that it would have been a far superior release, but unfortunately EA are in the business of making carbon copy games (look at all the battlefield releases)

Yeah, there has been a lot of ranting and raving at BW but I  too wonder if more if not most of that should've been directed at EA. 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

mopotter wrote...

 Ryllen Laerth Kriel.  I just spent an hour, between heating dinner and other distractions writing a super intelligent and interesting reply (believe me  it was riviting)  to your comment, agreeing with some things, giving my impression on others and when I went to submit, it glitched and everything went to another deminsion.  So I will just say I see your point, agree with some of it but not all and maybe try again later or tomorrow.  

Doh! I hate when that happens. Sorry to hear of your quandry. But maybe it's just God telling you to agree with me 100%?

I kid, I kid... Intellegent replies are always welcome, I usually don't deserve them!

[IanPolaris]

Yakko77 wrote...

ChaosUndivded wrote...

while i do believe DA2 wasn't all that it could have been, i don't blame bioware.. i do however blame EA for been a lame cookie-cutter publisher. DA2 is, as far as i can see, a fantasy version of mass effect, right down to the gestures used by npcs and the conversation system.. if bioware was working under a decent publisher, i have no doubt that it would have been a far superior release, but unfortunately EA are in the business of making carbon copy games (look at all the battlefield releases)

Yeah, there has been a lot of ranting and raving at BW but I  too wonder if more if not most of that should've been directed at EA. 

I think a fair bit should be aimed at EA but not all of it or even (IMHO) most of it.  EA did give unrealistically hard demands and too short a time to realize them to Bioware near as I can tell.  However, it was BIOWARE (and specifically Mike Laidlaw) that decided to strip apart a perfectly good and well received game (DAO) and remake it (improve it) in his image (and it's well known he never liked DAO and entered the Dev cycle late).  Basically, the fact that DA2 seems unfinished was in large part the fault of Bioware for deciding to make a "masterpiece" on a beer and pretzles budget while seemingly ignoring what did in fact work....if they didn't like it personally.

-Polaris

[lameduckie]

I think BW was surprised by how much backlash there was, but not that it happened. Leading up to DA2's release I noticed that every interview with BW made a point of talking about how bad DAO was. They kept harping on the shuffle and how dull the background graphics were.

Since they were making such an effort to make DA2 look better compared to DAO, I think they knew they had a flawed game and were trying to put it in as favorable light as they could.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

That is true lameduckie, it's a classic salesman's pitch to downplay the qualities of the previous model as you offer the shiny new one in the other hand. Maybe they will admit to some shortcomings in DA 2 when DA 3 is about to go gold then. Haha.

[IanPolaris]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

That is true lameduckie, it's a classic salesman's pitch to downplay the qualities of the previous model as you offer the shiny new one in the other hand. Maybe they will admit to some shortcomings in DA 2 when DA 3 is about to go gold then. Haha.

You are assuming there will even be a DA3.  It think it's a forgone conclusion that DA2 sales will fall badly short of even BW's most pessimistic predictions.  If DA2's DLCs also tank (a good possibility frankly), I can easily see EA stepping in and calling it a dog's meal and killing the franchise.

-Polaris

[moilami]

I thought yesterday that ME3 could be BW's last game.

[Sabriana]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

That is true lameduckie, it's a classic salesman's pitch to downplay the qualities of the previous model as you offer the shiny new one in the other hand. Maybe they will admit to some shortcomings in DA 2 when DA 3 is about to go gold then. Haha.

Seeing as how DA:O is still very much in the race for sales, that could backfire. Believe it or not, over here DA:O is quite often found in the in-store top 10 seller lists, and it keeps drawing people in.

Downplaying the previous model should only be advisable if and when that model has stopped drawing attention. The "sales" kind of attention. But then again, I've never pretended to be a business person other than helping my kids sell lemonade.

[Sabriana]

I agree, Ali.

My friend (who works at Media Markt) told me that when DA 2 started on its down-slide, DA:O went on another one of its upswings.

[rolson00]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

They are just shocked/surprised at how rude some people are being lol. I see Bioware hate topics every week which usually get deleted before they get over two posts. (anyone remember that "I'm gonna f***** murder David Gaider" topic from right after DA 2 was released?)

really? hes just lead writer mike laidlaw had final say on everything

[Bratt1204]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I agree, Ali.

My friend (who works at Media Markt) told me that when DA 2 started on its down-slide, DA:O went on another one of its upswings.

Thank the Maker! 

Hopefully this sends a message to those dumbasses over at EA to let BioWare work their magic from now on.

[Snowflake_in_Hel]

I'll try to be polite.

I bought DA2 as a "thank you" purchase to Bioware, for DA:O&A, one of the best games I ever had the pleasure of playing. DA:O&A gave me hundreds, if not thousands of hours of wonderful entertainment. I bought every DLC and hungered for more.

I decided that I would buy DA2, despite private misgivings that I would basically be purchasing a piece of garbage, as a way of thanking Bioware for the great gift of Dragon Age:Origins.

Upon reflection, that was probably a mistake: EA probably took the lion's share of the money, but it was Bioware who suffered the hit to its reputation.

Unfortunately, now that I know EA/Bioware is capable of marketing a piece of work like DA2, they'll have to work twice as hard before I'll make another purchase.

Not another penny from me, unless I actually like the game being presented; and if they continue to present dumbed-down/Amerrikan/good-old-boy cartoons packaged as an rpg, it'll be a warm day in Hel before I'm willing to waste the hard drive space or the resources to check out one of their games again.

They knew they would alienate their fan base with DA2, and they have, and they did it anyway.

Wassail.
werwulf.

[moilami]

Snowflake_in_Hel wrote...

I'll try to be polite.

I bought DA2 as a "thank you" purchase to Bioware, for DA:O&A, one of the best games I ever had the pleasure of playing. DA:O&A gave me hundreds, if not thousands of hours of wonderful entertainment. I bought every DLC and hungered for more.

I decided that I would buy DA2, despite private misgivings that I would basically be purchasing a piece of garbage, as a way of thanking Bioware for the great gift of Dragon Age:Origins.

Upon reflection, that was probably a mistake: EA probably took the lion's share of the money, but it was Bioware who suffered the hit to its reputation.

Unfortunately, now that I know EA/Bioware is capable of marketing a piece of work like DA2, they'll have to work twice as hard before I'll make another purchase.

Not another penny from me, unless I actually like the game being presented; and if they continue to present dumbed-down/Amerrikan/good-old-boy cartoons packaged as an rpg, it'll be a warm day in Hel before I'm willing to waste the hard drive space or the resources to check out one of their games again.

They knew they would alienate their fan base with DA2, and they have, and they did it anyway.

Wassail.
werwulf.

Haha! You made me laugh. That was very well said.

[CaptainBlackGold]

Snowflake_in_Hel wrote...

SNIP

They knew they would alienate their fan base with DA2, and they have, and they did it anyway.

Wassail.
werwulf.

You know what frightens/concerns me? It would actually encourage me if they did know their redesign would alienate their fan base. But I am concerned whether certain people in the decision-making loop really understand just who their customers are and what they want; that DA2 was exactly the kind of RPG they wanted to make because they thought it was the kind of game that more people would like to play. Granted, DA2 did appeal to some folks - there are many positive reviews/comments on these boards alone - but just as many, if not more who are "less than happy" with the final product.

So if they did this thinking "this is the future of RPG's" then whoever got the final decision to say "Make it so" seems to have seriously miscalculated their audience. I mean, just look at the official developer responses after the game first game out and the mobs were seen gathering torches and pitchforks - "They just hate change" and "They don't get our vision." Whether this was just marketing speech or a serious case of denial only time will tell.

Talking out of that bit of anatomy that is not usually associated with speech; I wonder if there were business concerns at a very high level that said, "We need to get something out before March 2011 that will we can tell our stock holders will sell reasonably well." And then someone else said, "Traditional RPGS are too time and money intensive for too little of market share."  And then someone said, "I can do both - but the end product will not be up to our usual standards."

But then the suits said, "For corporate reasons, we will take the hits on the quality because its better for the overall company."

If they did do this deliberately, it strangely gives me some hope; sometimes a bad decision is the only one available. But if they made DA2 the way they did, because they honestly and sincerely thought THIS was the "next evolution of RPG's" then; well that would just be sad.

edited for repeated word

Modifié par CaptainBlackGold, 11 mai 2011 - 01:54 .

[Bratt1204]

Snowflake_in_Hel wrote...

I'll try to be polite.

I bought DA2 as a "thank you" purchase to Bioware, for DA:O&A, one of the best games I ever had the pleasure of playing. DA:O&A gave me hundreds, if not thousands of hours of wonderful entertainment. I bought every DLC and hungered for more.

I decided that I would buy DA2, despite private misgivings that I would basically be purchasing a piece of garbage, as a way of thanking Bioware for the great gift of Dragon Age:Origins.

Upon reflection, that was probably a mistake: EA probably took the lion's share of the money, but it was Bioware who suffered the hit to its reputation.

Unfortunately, now that I know EA/Bioware is capable of marketing a piece of work like DA2, they'll have to work twice as hard before I'll make another purchase.

Not another penny from me, unless I actually like the game being presented; and if they continue to present dumbed-down/Amerrikan/good-old-boy cartoons packaged as an rpg, it'll be a warm day in Hel before I'm willing to waste the hard drive space or the resources to check out one of their games again.

They knew they would alienate their fan base with DA2, and they have, and they did it anyway.

Wassail.
werwulf.

This.

Still playing the game after a year and a half and enjoying it tremendously.

[Bratt1204]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I agree, Ali.

My friend (who works at Media Markt) told me that when DA 2 started on its down-slide, DA:O went on another one of its upswings.

Thank the Maker! 

Hopefully this sends a message to those dumbasses over at EA to let BioWare work their magic from now on.

*fist-bumps Bratt1204*

[Shadowbanner]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

That is true lameduckie, it's a classic salesman's pitch to downplay the qualities of the previous model as you offer the shiny new one in the other hand. Maybe they will admit to some shortcomings in DA 2 when DA 3 is about to go gold then. Haha.

This should be cast in stone.

The best review I've read for Oblivion has been a Skyrim preview (sic). The mag reviewer went out of his way to downtalk dear old Oblivion: Well sure Oblivion was ok, BUT it did it have many glaring flaws as you will recall:

re-used dungeons (check)
4 actors voicing all NPCs (check)
dull main quest (check)
ugly faces (check)
fundamentally broken levelling (check)
all cities are medieval clones lacking distinct art-style (check)

and the list goes on and on. Then he moves in for the kill...BUT Skyrim manages to fix all previous mistakes and is looking really hot.

I think it was the most honest unbiased review I've read of Oblivion; written of course with the sole purpose of talking up Skyrim. It kind of made you wonder why you had purchased Oblivion in the first place!

So much so that anyone would have probably skipped the game in 2006 on reading such a review.  

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 11 mai 2011 - 03:40 .

[Shadowbanner]

erynnar wrote...

I was just watching a preview of the  enviornments on the Witcher 2. Beautiful interactive world. Small town
in it more full of life than Kirkwall's big city.

I wonder if  backlash of the fans coupled with Witcher's reception will give BioWare pause. And I mean that in a completely neutral way (no biting me, well much. I might like it).

marshalleck wrote...

Bioware have become fat and lazy with their earlier successes, and it's showing. I'd like to see a younger upstart with much to prove (CD Projekt) show them up.

Of course, Witcher 2 could be a monumental disappointment somehow, and it would be equally entertaining to see the Witcher fanboys go into total meltdown. 

CD Projekt are taking potshots at BioWare and are moving on in for the kill appealing to disgruntled BioWare hardcore RPG fans.

CD Projekt can smell the blood a mile away. BioWare have grown complacent.

Just read the bullet points of TW2 to check it out. Many of these bullet points are EXACTLY what's being criticised in this very forum on DA2, even going as far as using the exact same terms as we are: "FedEx quests", plot "linearity", lack of meaningful choices etc.

Or else watch their Youtube videos which are targeted to showcase strong points in their new game which DA2, in comparison, is seriously underlacking (i.e. lively-world vs dead Kirkwall; re-used environments vs a myriad of new cool-looking ones). The audio even says "NPCs do better things than just stand around all day";"NPCs are not shallow, superficial entities" etc.

The writing is on the wall.

CD Projekt imo have devised their entire marketing campaign revolving on DA2's shortcomings to portray TW2 as its antithesis, appealing to hardcore RPG enthusiasts.
Note they leave the now derided word in RPG circles, "streamlining", for the last bullet point.


RPG Experience:

• Extensive non-linearity within advanced gameplay mechanics. We are
  able to go through the situations on our path in various ways. Choosing
  our allies along the story path will, for example, reveal brand new and
  diverse possibilities and threads
• Unique quests more connected with the main plot - no more "FedEx" quests (simple "deliver or pick up object" quests)
• Greatly enhanced character development, in which each decision with
  regards to development, including individual skills, result in different
  kinds of gameplay. It is based on three specialisations: sword, magic
  and alchemy, which can be mixed to create hybrid character styles
• Traditional system that has the player fight opponents with a fixed
  difficulty level, maximizing satisfaction gained from developing a
  powerful character. Battles with particular types of opponents become
  progressively easier as the player advances in level, in complete
  contrast to what we see in many current titles, which offer simplified
  systems where opponents' difficulty levels adjust alongside the
  player's. These are systems that help make the game and its development
  easier, but offer much less satisfaction for developing a very powerful
  character
• New system of Mutagens gives players the ability to modify the
  effects of particular skills. You could, for example, enhance and modify
  the way your spells work, by multiplying the damage - be it greater
  amount, or dealing with more enemies at the same time
• Advanced crafting mechanics vastly increased the possibilities for
  players to create their own items: about 200 items - weapon and armour
  elements - are possible, compared with just 10 swords in The Witcher 1
• Many elements of armour - jackets, gloves, belts, knee pads, etc.
  increase variety for the player. There's ability to upgrade each element
  separately, offering many combinations of armour, as opposed to just
  four types of armour available in The Witcher 1
• Composit-built weapons, allowing many different types of swords (about 300 vs. 10 in The Witcher 1)
• Random statistics introduce additional variety among similar items
• New equipment system, streamlining and making gameplay more
  flexible, thanks to no limits in the number of carried items, clear
  division into sections, and an improved sorting system

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 11 mai 2011 - 04:07 .