498 réponses à ce sujet

[Denizen89]

asaiasai wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I think so. At the very least I KNOW that Bioware is shocked and dismayed by the dismal Metacritic user rating that DA2 has gotten, and they have to be stunned and dissapointed at the sales figures. Sure DA2 will turn a profit, but given the sell-though numbers of DAO (and comparing it to ME to ME2) I am certain that BW expected much more robust sales. At the very least it seems to suggest that DA2's attempt to tap into the CoD audience has been a dismal failure.

-Polaris

Perfect as it should be.

I bought just this week Fable 3, The Witcher 2 and the DLC for FONV had Bioware stayed truer to what made DAO so good i would have been willing to buy it as well for full price, ( i still have yet to buy it). What was done to DA2 is a shame, but Biioware did the same thing to ME2 as well. They trashed what made ME and DAO so good in the fleeting attempt to chase dollars they really were delusional to consider they had any chance to get, and maintain a core support group. DA2 is a failure and hopefully a lesson has been learned, in case it has been missed i will reiterate it again.

A bird in the hand (DAO fans who would have gobbled up DA2 like a thirsting man in from the desert) is worth two in the bush (the CoD crowd) that never seemed to materialize. Bioware go back and make DA3 right this time, or continue to try to appeal the the fleeting and saturated  TPS/FPS CoD type market. You had a winning formula and instead tried to get too smart for your own good and made New Coke.

The only reason i still continue to come back considering i have not bought DA2 is that DAO was so good, and i know you can do it again if you try, that i hope to push you back to the DAO roots. If not there are other companies who will cater to the RPG player in me and eventually like all companies who loose thier focus, become footnotes in some chapter eleven hearing.

Asai

DA2 is still a game that isn't that terrible but it is still close to it when compared to Origins. My concern is the same with Polaris in that they keep on with this bunker mentality. If they don't top 3 million sold to customers copies than they should consider it a failure. I have been to best buy and gamestop multiple times over the last month and noticed a ton of new factory sealed DA2's and the racks never decreasing give or take one or two. Plus there are quite a few copies on preowned racks as well, of course unmoved. My humble opinion is that we should be concerned as fans because the third game has been offically green lit. I won't be buying the game maybe a xbox copy of DAO because of console problems. But pre order 3? nope... They have lost that one. I did pre order mass effect 3 but I am still concerned with their reasoning of the change of date. The thing about Mass Effect as a series is that it is a hybrid series and it does well in grabbing the CoD crowd because of the gun aspect and well being your own hardcore BAMF. ME2 was phenomenal game and so was the first one, only problem that i see is that they are trying too hard to take fans by merging too much. Which is what killed DA2 and the fact it wasn't a hybrid series. ME2 however went the Fable route which wasn't a bad thing. Just hope the simplification doesn't continue in the next instalment (i.e. Fable 3).

[csfteeeer]

erynnar wrote...

UGH! Seriously? Someone made a thread like that? Glad I missed it. That kind of thing pisses me off.

Yep, i saw it, and that S**t was Crazy

[Denizen89]

csfteeeer wrote...

erynnar wrote...

UGH! Seriously? Someone made a thread like that? Glad I missed it. That kind of thing pisses me off.

Yep, i saw it, and that S**t was Crazy

Yeah that kinda thing is not cool no one needs that. But they do need to drop the ego and stop listening to marketing those guys all think alike and have no new or good ideas. CoD crowd won't touch Dragon Age because it is a FANTASY SERIES not a War or Military game. They will touch Mass Effect 3 however so do not worry about grabbing them with Dragon Age try grabbing the other fantasy gamers out there.

[erynnar]

csfteeeer wrote...

erynnar wrote...

UGH! Seriously? Someone made a thread like that? Glad I missed it. That kind of thing pisses me off.

Yep, i saw it, and that S**t was Crazy

Good grief!

[erynnar]

TheTranzor wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Jek Porkins. I think that was his name. It just cracks me up that they made a fat guy character named Porkins. I mean damn...

Dude... I didn't even know Porkins' first name.  You're my sci-fi geek hero. 

And yes... fat dude in Star Wars named Porkins is epic.  In fact... I'm gonna go down to the courthouse and have my name changed to Jek Porkins Jr.

If you to do that, you are even more of an awesome button! I am a Star Wars fan. And yes Jek Porkins...the fat guy. Always makes me giggle, and think, "poor unfortunate sod.":lol:

[rammsoldat]

I can tell the fan backlash was stronger than they expected, truthfully it was stronger than i expected also but they way Bioware reacted says to me that they wern't prepared. I just dont get why they fiddled with it so much i mean origins was great it wasnt broken so why "fix" it.

Oh well theres plenty of other fish in the sea, bring on dark souls.

Modifié par rammsoldat, 05 juin 2011 - 02:44 .

[Droma]

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

Modifié par Droma, 05 juin 2011 - 02:51 .

[ShadyKat]

I don't know how, or why they would be shocked. It was painfully clear that DA2 was rushed, and very half assed. Did they really think fans wouldn't notice?

[DarkDragon777]

No, they just wanted the COD****s to rush in.

[rammsoldat]

Droma wrote...

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

yeah way to exagerate what i said, go polish your defence force medal.

[csfteeeer]

boba1974 wrote...

Archaven wrote...

The backlash is just a minority in the forums. Bioware/EA succeeded in DA2 they sold many millions of copies.

Nonsense.

First off, the game is a full 10 points lower on Metacritic than the first, and I'm not talking about rabid fan votes either, I'm talking about review scores.  It's universally seen as a worse game.

Second, DA2 has sold less than the first game, and the PC sales portion of DA2 are a fraction of what the first game sold.

Face it, Bioware abandoned their PC base, and in turn their PC base has abandoned them. They thought they'd get away with dumbing the game down, and that they would sell so many console copies that they didn't care if they pissed off PC gamers. Unfortunately for them, PC sales went in the toilet and console sales will probably never make up the difference.


Even further, CD Projekt Red just beat Bioware at their own game with the release of The Witcher 2. They also "streamlined" their game, and made it console ready, without totally screwing over PC gamers and hardcore rpg fans in the process. At least someone remembers who made them what they are today.

I didn't even finish the Witcher 2, but they managed to what you are supposed to do with a franchise...make it better with each successive game. While Bioware has gotten fat and lazy from their success, newer, hungrier developers are raising the bar and Bioware is no longer the preiminent rpg developer anymore and when The Witcher 2, and not Dragon Age 2, is named RPG of the year over and overa again they will finally realize that fact.

Agreed, BioWare needs to see how to focus on a particular plataform without screwing over another one( PC in this case), and i really believe that BioWare should take inspiration out of the Witcher 2, on several mechanics, and learn how to combine them, i think it would everyone (well at least people) happy,(in fact, i made a thread about how BioWare should take a little inspiration from the Witcher 2 on certain mechanic, check it out if you're interested : http://social.biowar...37521/1#7537521 , shameless promoting, i know, but i do what i can )
Note: sorry, but Skyrim is gonna take RPG of the Year.

[Denizen89]

Droma wrote...

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

Now that is funny. Why I saw let them flock to Mass Effect. Plus chill out it would work wonders on your temperment.

[Denizen89]

ShadyKat wrote...

I don't know how, or why they would be shocked. It was painfully clear that DA2 was rushed, and very half assed. Did they really think fans wouldn't notice?

Thing is they might be a little surprised, Heck even Bioware seems to be going screw the customer.

[Bejos_]

They knew they were going to lose RPG fans.
They were trying to capture FPS fans and casual gamers.

DA2 gameplay bears this out. It is easy and quick; it is also tedious and repetitive in anything more than 15-minute spurts. (I've played it once and can't manage to get through more than 10-minute chunks in my lacklustre second playthrough.)

They don't care about losing RPG fans, provided that the larger FPS and/or casual crowd bites.

I wouldn't say they're stunned or shocked. I think they're probably disappointed they'll have to work harder than they would with FPS and casual gamer.

They don't care about their customers, guys-- they care about money. How myopic and short-sighted.

(How much EA has to do with Bioware's new direction, and how much of it is of Bioware's own volition, is a matter up for debate, of course.)

[atum]

I find it disappointing that a thread shows as having someone from Bioware replying but it's just some guy telling people to be civil. It's a perfectly valid thing to say, but it's a bit of a tease in a thread about Bioware.

Ah well, might as well throw my thoughts into the pile.

Anyways, I didn't know the lead designer changed to the Jade Empires guy, that really explains a lot. Especially the bad UI graphics and over-the-top ninja combat.

Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed DA2, *especially the faster combat*, they just seemed to have missed the mark with tactical stuff. I appreciated the change they tried to make pushing a bit more action into the game but they should have pushed it in without neglecting the successfull mechanics of DA:O. And I did like the new skill trees.

My other problem with the "ninja" style animations is that happen all on their own. I didn't understand why my character was a complete badass right from level 1. I liked the look of most of the animations, and the visceral feeling of action combat, but it made no sense when it happened all on it's own.

Also, definitely agree that the FedEx quests are no excuse for re-using levels, they could have made none of those and added another full side quest (or three) with the same resources.

I like the new Qunari models too, makes sense with the Ogres/Brood Mothers. But the Elves definitely missed the mark. Overall I liked the art direction though, just not the "eastern-action-jade-empires-stylized-rpg" stuff. Kirkwall really felt like a city though I think we all wanted to venture out more. And the slave drawings on all the walls were creepy and atmospheric. Great stuff.

As for story wise, I couldn't care less about all the drama on the gay romance (and I have a hard time believing that this affected sales by more that a tiny fraction of a percent). It makes for juicy drama, but it was hardly a big deal. But some of the forced interactions with party members was a bit annoying. I would much rather have Bethany or Merrill along than Anders for healing -- eg more options in this area would have been nice. Taking Bethany away was a bit "wtf?" That bothered me in awakenings too (wont go into spoilers/details).

Still, I honestly don't have any complaints about the voice acting or story I thought they were both very well done and funny.

Also, for whoever said that dev time doesnt matter, you should google the "mythical man month".

I have faith in the lead designer as long as he finds it in himself to challenge his own ideas of what makes a game good. Clearly he was out of his element in the DA world and shaped part of it to fit his more eastern/anime/action/rpg comfot zone. But that doesn't mean he hasn't learned from the mistake. I guess only time will tell.

Finally, as for the enevitable Witcher 2 stuff, it's just a different game and comparisions should be made lightly. I just finished it and really enjoyed it too, but it's also *highly* overrated. The story is very much a pubescent male fantasy (which still appeals to this old man who hasnt ever really grown up) but it's hardly "mature". Also the music was at times a bit too silly "heavy metal medevil" for my tastes, while other times is was very good. It's hardly any more a "mature" story that DA:O or 2, it just has more sex. The combat was also an order of magnitude *worse* than DA2. Now again -- don't get me wrong, I really liked playing TW2, but these comparisions are kinda silly.

[Wozearly]

Droma wrote...

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

There's a well-known saying that goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I've always been happy to applaud Bioware's willingness to experiment with the direction and feel of their games (even when it scares me somewhat when they apply it to a franchise I already love), but its entirely possible to misunderstand what things worked / didn't work and, more importantly, why they worked / didn't work.

For example, people saying that combat was too slow and felt dull. Well, was it that encounters took too long to finish? Or that enemies sucked up so much damage that you spent most of the time fighting on autoattack with no stamina? Or that combat speed felt too slow so that it wasn't engaging? Or that several abilities didn't have a particularly meaningful effect in battle? Or that the animations didn't feel 'exciting' enough? Or that there wasn't enough of a challenge to make people feel that combat was worthwhile...

...each of those could be fixed in a completely different way - and, to be honest, DA2 took a crack at fixing all of them. They couldn't *all* have been broken, and such a wholesale shift was more likely to throw up lots of new issues with the combat system - for example, enemies die if you sneeze at them, so the game has to have a wave combat system, everything is on double speed compared to Origins (except enemy attacks), animations are significantly more OTT, etc.

The most important thing is, I agree, learning from any mistakes made...but equally I hope that this type of experience will make Bioware a little more cautious with dramatic 180 degree shifts in gameplay and approach during a franchise going forwards.

[Bejos_]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Droma wrote...

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

Yes, because innovation means completely changing almost everything! That's exactly what it means and that's they only way you can achieve it! And if you aren't innovating like a motha****a, your game is the same. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm glad we can talk in sarcasm.

Lame strawman is lame.

How people feel about the combat at this point has little to do about change. Certainly, initially some people compared DA:O's and DA2's combat and decided "I don't like DA2's combat because it's nothing like DA:O's!" We're several months into the new game now, and I think everyone can bring up plenty of other, material, reasons to dislike DA2 combat.

Do people think that their melodramatic half-thoughts are conducive or contributive to the conversation?

Modifié par Bejos_, 06 juin 2011 - 01:34 .

[Drama Queenie]

Bejos_ wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

Droma wrote...

yes they should have made the totally same game just with a other story or so, who needs innovation! it would totally the best thing if humanity just would everything that works like it is. no need for improvement and sometimes failure resulting of the try. that's why i totally love cod, every year 60bucks for the totally same game just with different maps! that's just great.

humans never should take any risks trying to improve their products (which are games here)!

Yes, because innovation means completely changing almost everything! That's exactly what it means and that's they only way you can achieve it! And if you aren't innovating like a motha****a, your game is the same. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm glad we can talk in sarcasm.

Lame strawman is lame.

How people feel about the combat at this point has little to do about change. Certainly, initially some people compared DA:O's and DA2's combat and decided "I don't like DA2's combat because it's nothing like DA:O's!" We're several months into the new game now, and I think everyone can bring up plenty of other, material, reasons to dislike DA2 combat.

Do people think that their melodramatic half-thoughts are conducive or contributive to the conversation?

You sound melodramatic too me, bud.

[Bejos_]

You're either a troll or 12-year-old. Either way, grow up!
Edit: Anyway ... back OT ...

Modifié par Bejos_, 06 juin 2011 - 01:44 .

[Derengard]

I think they were playing with the fire, and thought it would be cool at that (see the "This is the New Sh**-trailer as a starting point - how much trashier does it get?). I have to explain that I'm neither a religious follower of the ancient RPG code nor a connoisseur of stupid action games (note: The Witcher 2 is not classical but damn good and has its own integrity). And there's also no need for Bioware to view game design in such narrow terms, to think that being more modern and trying something different automatically means doing a shallow comic book style fantasy game.

Modifié par Derengard, 06 juin 2011 - 04:03 .

[Davasar]

As was stated before:

They don't care about their customer base, they care about money.

If they can put in minimal effort and get enough rubes to buy their half assed production (*cough* DA2) then they are happy.

Modifié par Davasar, 06 juin 2011 - 04:21 .

[happy_daiz]

I think BioWare wanted to try something new. Some aspects of the gamble paid off, some didn't. I would think that if even a tiny percentage of the posts in this forum make it to their desks, they would have a pretty clear idea of what worked and what didn't.

The true test will be what BioWare does with that information.