498 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

Oopsieoops wrote...
And as it happened, DA:RtP didn't pick their battles. They instead wasted resources reinventing what wasn't wrong instead of reusing them, and therefore ran out of time (and probably budget) to properly flash out the rest of the game. How many new dungeons were scrapped out to make room (time- and resource-wise) for the new Flemeth, the new Darkspawn (of whom we only see ogres and hurlocks for this same reason, BTW), etc?

I'd say none, because character artist and environment artist are two different jobs. (For the record, I liked the new Flemeth. They made her look more like an older Morrigan, in fact...and more badass than nutty old bat. Really not keen on the new darkspawn, however. That change was time wasted, IMHO).

I'm actually surprised Dragon Age 2 was as good as it was given the time constraints. I was unsure on my first play but have found it more replayable than I'd feared and am still enjoying it. There's a lot about it that I like.
The combat mechanics are actually a lot better than I'd been expecting but I did not like the waves, flying ninjas and formulaic boss battles. That was one development I could have done without.

My main problem was Chapter 3, which was a wasted opportunity. It seemed to me that the writing, or at least the quest design, was rushed. In one of the quests, you end up having to kill a bunch of people you should be helping (if you're pro-mage), and the number of mages who turn out to be blood mages or abominations is just silly by this point. I realise the Veil is thin in Kirkwall, but it's pushing my ability to suspend disbelief. As for Orsino's actions, they made no sense to me at all.

I would rather have seen something more like where you choose between Bhelen and Harrowmont in Orzammar and have to quest for one or the other. It would have given the game more replay value had there been more significant differences between factions.

Still, as I said, the game is better than I'd been lead to believe, in so far as I find it pretty enjoyable to play.  I hope EA does give DA3 the go-ahead and Bioware takes on board the various criticisms, but I suppose we will see.

[neppakyo]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

*sigh* Can't believe im responding to the Volourn troll.

They did not sell 2million+. It was sold in, meaning shipped/sold to retailers. More realsitically it was around 1.3 million in sales. Not too shabby, but not close to what people think it is.

Just dont respond to anything he says, sure he is so ridiculously simple that its comical, but he is not worth a response dude.

I just hope no onse else takes what he says seriously. As his failure to grasp the meaning to the phrase "sold in" which EA used in their reports.

[JaegerBane]

OdanUrr wrote...

Pride is a hard pill to swallow. Going back on DA2 for DA3 would be equivalent to admitting they made a mistake and that doesn't come easily to anyone. Mike Laidlaw already said in an interview they wouldn't be doing a 180-loop again with DA3, so best we can hope for is a revamped DA2 or, since my brother referred to DA2 as a "beta," the real DA2.

I don't think a 180 loop would really achieve anything, to be honest, so pride and 'sunk cost' aside, I don't think such a stance is necessarily a bad one.

My big concern is that there seems to be this binary opinion developing that a game either has to be an old-school RPG or a hyper-streamlined snore-fest controlled by awesome buttons. Contrary to popular opinion, not everything in DA:O was perfect so a straight rehash probably wouldn't achieve much. On the other hand, they made a lot of daft mistakes that any developer should have been able to see from the get go.

The Dragon age franchise isn't going to be improved simply going back to start nor is it going to be improved by loads of awesome buttons, and I'm kinda hoping that they'll realise that.

[blothulfur]

Hawke the psychotic janitor of the unchanging city of the dead who cleans up when other people have shaken the very world was just what I wanted when they announced the rise to power, he is not an ineffectual, idle loser who sits on his arse while the world turns and waits for the next wave of awesome but a deeply nuanced character whose deep backstory, endless ambition and sheer cunning adaptability (initiates combat) in the face of whatever danger he faces leaves me breathless with admiration.

His impassioned oratory resonates through the empty streets of kirkwall with the force of a hurricane changing the lives of all who hear and to those detractors who speak of his ignorance and apathy I choose middle right and say I neither know nor care (Because I need to open up later middle right conversation options).

Yeah not that impressed and I hope bioware doesn't continue down the dumbed down road, we can read a journal and find a person without golden exclamation marks though i've got to admit the sheer labyrinthine depth of the waxlers hat quest left me dumbfounded.

Modifié par blothulfur, 07 mai 2011 - 05:13 .

[SoulRebel_1979]

Volourn wrote...

Nah. They've been through this before. With 2mil+ sales, they ain't worried. BIO will keep chugging along making great games like DA2, BG2, and ME2 and making overrated crap games like BG, KOTOR, and S:RPG.

Lol, BG and KOTOR crap games. You almost had me there. Good one. I needed a morning chuckle. Thanks!

[JaegerBane]

CalJones wrote...
My main problem was Chapter 3, which was a wasted opportunity. It seemed to me that the writing, or at least the quest design, was rushed. In one of the quests, you end up having to kill a bunch of people you should be helping (if you're pro-mage), and the number of mages who turn out to be blood mages or abominations is just silly by this point. I realise the Veil is thin in Kirkwall, but it's pushing my ability to suspend disbelief. As for Orsino's actions, they made no sense to me at all.

IMO things started to fall apart long before that - I didn't pay a great deal of attention to the forums of reviews when it first came out, so I wasn't prepared for the horrible realisation at the start of Act 2 where I realised that an area I'd took to be a first act location along the lines of Neverwinter in NWN1 was actually the entire game world. Up until that point I thoroughly enjoyed it, particularly the rather mysterious finale of Act 1 in the Deep Roads.

As it happened, Act 2 just virtually ignored what had happened and decided to force an unrelated storyline into the game. Of course, by the point Act 3 got going things had just reached new heights of absurdity, with characters that had been established earlier on undegoing extreme personality shifts and carrying out inexplicable actions (as you say, Orsino's end was so ridiculous I nearly laughed - it was roughly the equivalent of Arl Eamon suddenly stabbing everyone at the congregation and trying to seize the crown for himself).

[OddityAngel]

clipped_wolf wrote...
And if you have already given them your money? What if you pre-ordered the game with misplaced trust? How do you get your satisfaction when you are bitter and feeling used? The reaction here is often called 'childish', it is emotional. They cry loud enough to be heard by the potential consumer base.
'I feel my trust in you as a company has been betrayed,' the unhappy paying fan is saying,' and those $60 I paid for your product will be EXPENSIVE. I have the right!"

I sympathize with those who feel disappointed, even betrayed, by Bioware's new direction. In the interest of full disclosure I am not a veteran RPG fan in any sense. DA:O was the first Western RPG I ever played and finished, so I don't have any long term emotional investment in the company or the genre. I think that makes it easier for me to put aside any visceral reactions and focus on articulating my concerns in (what I hope is) a constructive way.

The emotional response is understandable, but at this point it can feel like a lot of baying at the moon. Concerns should be voiced, but you have to be aware of how your criticism is being read. 'I was disappointed in Dragon Age II because of _______, ________ and ________. As a result I will not be buying DLC or any expansions. I am not planning on purchasing DA III' reads much differently than 'DA II was the worst game ever. David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw et al. don't care about RPG fans and bathe in their tears. Nothing will ever be right in the world again!' Even if you truly feel that way it should be easy to see how it could be seen as hyperbole from a disagreeable fanbase.

Of course this all depends on your intent. If what you want to do is commiserate with fellow bitter users the second approach is perfectly fine (if a little tiresome to those of us who did enjoy the game, but that's our problem, not yours). I get that complaining is cathartic, I just wish the reactions to the game weren't so extreme on either side, since it makes it difficult to figure out where to go from here.

(Such speculation is also like baying at the moon, but we all have our vices...)

Modifié par OddityAngel, 07 mai 2011 - 05:22 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

IanPolaris wrote...

I will tell you this. Bioware cares about DA2's metacritic score. Almost all game companies do pay close attention to the rating.

-Polaris

Well, considering that even Laidlaw recommended them, ironically...

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 07 mai 2011 - 05:47 .

[erynnar]

OddityAngel wrote...

clipped_wolf wrote...
And if you have already given them your money? What if you pre-ordered the game with misplaced trust? How do you get your satisfaction when you are bitter and feeling used? The reaction here is often called 'childish', it is emotional. They cry loud enough to be heard by the potential consumer base.
'I feel my trust in you as a company has been betrayed,' the unhappy paying fan is saying,' and those $60 I paid for your product will be EXPENSIVE. I have the right!"

I sympathize with those who feel disappointed, even betrayed, by Bioware's new direction. In the interest of full disclosure I am not a veteran RPG fan in any sense. DA:O was the first Western RPG I ever played and finished, so I don't have any long term emotional investment in the company or the genre. I think that makes it easier for me to put aside any visceral reactions and focus on articulating my concerns in (what I hope is) a constructive way.

The emotional response is understandable, but at this point it can feel like a lot of baying at the moon. Concerns should be voiced, but you have to be aware of how your criticism is being read. 'I was disappointed in Dragon Age II because of _______, ________ and ________. As a result I will not be buying DLC or any expansions. I am not planning on purchasing DA III' reads much differently than 'DA II was the worst game ever. David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw et al. don't care about RPG fans and bathe in their tears. Nothing will ever be right in the world again!' Even if you truly feel that way it should be easy to see how it could be seen as hyperbole from a disagreeable fanbase.

Of course this all depends on your intent. If what you want to do is commiserate with fellow bitter users the second approach is perfectly fine (if a little tiresome to those of us who did enjoy the game, but that's our problem, not yours). I get that complaining is cathartic, I just wish the reactions to the game weren't so extreme on either side, since it makes it difficult to figure out where to go from here.

(Such speculation is also like baying at the moon, but we all have our vices...)

Exactly why they have a Constructive Crit and a official Reviews thread. People have been posting their concerns very articulately . Other threads...not so much.

[Nozybidaj]

Clown No.9 wrote...

Stunned? Hardly, they expected backlash with all the changes they made. What they are probably annoyed about is not attracting CoD crowd as planned.

I think that about summarizes it nicely.  

[Riouz]

Simple plz give Mr laidlaw enough money and resorces to make JE 2 which can be full of Awesome button brainless mashing , and leave DA3 to the team who made DA O.....

[MorrigansLove]

I bet the amount of backlash wasn't what they were expecting, that's for sure.

[erynnar]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

OddityAngel wrote...

clipped_wolf wrote...
And if you have already given them your money? What if you pre-ordered the game with misplaced trust? How do you get your satisfaction when you are bitter and feeling used? The reaction here is often called 'childish', it is emotional. They cry loud enough to be heard by the potential consumer base.
'I feel my trust in you as a company has been betrayed,' the unhappy paying fan is saying,' and those $60 I paid for your product will be EXPENSIVE. I have the right!"

I sympathize with those who feel disappointed, even betrayed, by Bioware's new direction. In the interest of full disclosure I am not a veteran RPG fan in any sense. DA:O was the first Western RPG I ever played and finished, so I don't have any long term emotional investment in the company or the genre. I think that makes it easier for me to put aside any visceral reactions and focus on articulating my concerns in (what I hope is) a constructive way.

The emotional response is understandable, but at this point it can feel like a lot of baying at the moon. Concerns should be voiced, but you have to be aware of how your criticism is being read. 'I was disappointed in Dragon Age II because of _______, ________ and ________. As a result I will not be buying DLC or any expansions. I am not planning on purchasing DA III' reads much differently than 'DA II was the worst game ever. David Gaider, Mike Laidlaw et al. don't care about RPG fans and bathe in their tears. Nothing will ever be right in the world again!' Even if you truly feel that way it should be easy to see how it could be seen as hyperbole from a disagreeable fanbase.

Of course this all depends on your intent. If what you want to do is commiserate with fellow bitter users the second approach is perfectly fine (if a little tiresome to those of us who did enjoy the game, but that's our problem, not yours). I get that complaining is cathartic, I just wish the reactions to the game weren't so extreme on either side, since it makes it difficult to figure out where to go from here.

(Such speculation is also like baying at the moon, but we all have our vices...)

Exactly why they have a Constructive Crit and a official Reviews thread. People have been posting their concerns very articulately . Other threads...not so much.

I should post there someday. When i'm in the mood to rant, that is.

I have enojoyed those threads because they really point out that we all really agree more than we disagree...whether we liked the game or not.

[PsychoWARD23]

They had to have known it was rushed.

[Shibby Razel]

I think EA has to do more with what we see....hey Bioware we're giving you money to not have texture problems so umm make the guys who shoot stuff in call of duty like rpgs kk thx

[Sabriana]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Shibby Razel wrote...

I think EA has to do more with what we see....hey Bioware we're giving you money to not have texture problems so umm make the guys who shoot stuff in call of duty like rpgs kk thx

lol, that's how I imagined it went.

Oh now that's funny. Both of you.

[Shadowbanner]

neppakyo wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

*sigh* Can't believe im responding to the Volourn troll.

They did not sell 2million+. It was sold in, meaning shipped/sold to retailers. More realsitically it was around 1.3 million in sales. Not too shabby, but not close to what people think it is.

Just dont respond to anything he says, sure he is so ridiculously simple that its comical, but he is not worth a response dude.

I just hope no onse else takes what he says seriously. As his failure to grasp the meaning to the phrase "sold in" which EA used in their reports.

Pay no heed, he's always like that. He never listens to others, just himself.

Perfect troll.

[IanPolaris]

Unfortunately, like I said earlier, my read is that the dev and writing team for DA2 has encased themselves in something of a bunker mentality. If so, then all the criticism in the world, no matter how reasonable and how constructive isn't going to matter. They will persue the "truth" of what makes Dragon Age successful in their eyes regardless of what the marketing "facts" say...and that sort of disconnect never ends well.

Either DA is going to crash and burn, or EA will pull the plug.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

The best REAL estimates for sale of DA2 (from independant tracking) I've heard is between 1.3 and 1.5 million SOLD (as in sold to customers). EA's report uses "Sell in" which means sold to distributers, but that really means "shipped" since any retailer has to buy the unit on a short term loan basis to sell it on the open market.

Given the marginal sales rate, DA2 may break 2 million in it's lifetime maybe. If it does, it won't be by much.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[Paper420]

Seriously ofcourse BW knew what they were doing, but no doubt they will be shocked by the amount of hate they got for this almost-decent game.

[erynnar]

Sabriana wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Shibby Razel wrote...

I think EA has to do more with what we see....hey Bioware we're giving you money to not have texture problems so umm make the guys who shoot stuff in call of duty like rpgs kk thx

lol, that's how I imagined it went.

Oh now that's funny. Both of you.

I second that, almost spit my pasta salad on the keyboard!