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[Addai]

(husband)

Ian Polaris and others there's been a question I've been dieing to ask for a while... What affect do you think the "gay game" stuff had on sales?


I can speak from my own experience that the first two weeks playing the game that I had trouble with getting any kind of straight romance going, but Anders was very into me without any encouragement.... I was very frustrated by this (It seemed like the game writers were trying to push a social agenda etc.) but unlike other people didn't vent my frustration on the boards because I knew it wouldn't it wouldn't go over well and I was trying to avoid spoilers.


I did however keep tabs on the subject with web searches. What was posted online was over all positive for Bioware, people posting "bravo" type posts on blogs and web sites, except for the folks actively trying to get David Gaider fired.

But I did eventually find one thing... the whole "Bioware has neglected the straight male gamer" thread controversy broke one week before the first news of the sales down turn was reported...

Anyway what do you think?

[Torhagen]

What follows is a critique of where I think Dragon Age II went wrong.
Read without bearing this in mind it could look like an overtly negative
review. It’s not. The game gets much right, with some lovely quests,
fun chats, interesting characters, and moving stories. There’s tough
subjects covered, including a plot that asks whether you can sympathise
with a paedophile, the pursuing of serial killers, and fights with giant
bronze statues. As an RPG it succeeds in many ways. This isn’t about
that. This is about trying to understand why this time that’s not
enough.

After ME2 this time i expect more as well although DA2 as an RPG it succeeds in many ways.

[Sabriana]

@ Addai's husband

It didn't seem to have made a big difference over here. However, gay marriage/civil union has been a fact in our country for 25 + years.

I don't play male PCs so I've no idea how Anders plays out, but I hear that if he's shut down right away, he'll be a good boy. Personally, I have no clue why it should be such a big factor. It would be different if he is relentless in his pursuit of maleHawke. Is he then?

Modifié par Sabriana, 07 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[Rebecca Black likes DA2]

Well Bioware sure shocked the gaming world when we all got to see how terrible Dragon Age 2 was first hand. So if they're shocked over the backlash they deserve it.

[Giltspur]

As someone that liked DA2...I imagine Bioware is pretty sobered by both the critical and commericial reactions.

The target for an RPG on Metracritic is a 9.  Where do I get that from?  Look at press releases from people like Obsidian that bemoan the death of an RPG series like Alpha Protocol.  A Bioware rep also admitted (though I don't remember where) that 9 is usually the goal on their games.  At any rate, DA2 didn't meet that target, and it's target Bioware has been in the habit of hitting lately.  A lot of the major publications gave DA2 scores in the 8 to 8.5 range, which is lower than DAO and ME2 received.  And critical publications tended to remark unfavorably on the simplifications made to various parts of DA.  With ME2, a lot of the comments on changes were positive. This suggests, to me, that a lot of reviewers felt ME2 did something right in that regard while DA2 did something wrong.  (Now there are obviously people on the ME boards that thought ME was great and that ME2 was an abomination.  That opinion was not reflected in most critical scores though.)

As for sales, well, they're kind of hard to track.  But if you add VG numbers and Steam numbers and then sort of project things based on the declining sales you notice a couple of things 1) DAO showed signs of longevity that DA2 doesn't and 2) DA2 will probably sell 2 million or fewer (regardless of what the shipping totals are), which is half of what DAO sold, roughly.

Bioware wanted to grow the DA audience, which is understandable.  However, they got lower critical scores and will probably end up with half the sales.  I imagine that will be hard to ignore and will come up in the post-mortem sessions on the game.

There are a lot of cool things about DA2.  But I'm sure Bioware was hoping for better success than DA2 seems to be getting.  And I'm sure they're harsh critics of themselves and will try to figure out how to do better next time even if they can't really talk about it in those terms right now.  DA2 still has games to sell and DLC to hype.  So coming out and talking about what DA2 did wrong doesn't really help them.  Sure it could placate the fans.  But there will be time to placate fans in the buildup to DA3 when they decide how to market it.

Modifié par Giltspur, 07 mai 2011 - 09:28 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Addai67 wrote...

(husband)

Ian Polaris and others there's been a question I've been dieing to ask for a while... What affect do you think the "gay game" stuff had on sales?


I can speak from my own experience that the first two weeks playing the game that I had trouble with getting any kind of straight romance going, but Anders was very into me without any encouragement.... I was very frustrated by this (It seemed like the game writers were trying to push a social agenda etc.) but unlike other people didn't vent my frustration on the boards because I knew it wouldn't it wouldn't go over well and I was trying to avoid spoilers.


I did however keep tabs on the subject with web searches. What was posted online was over all positive for Bioware, people posting "bravo" type posts on blogs and web sites, except for the folks actively trying to get David Gaider fired.

But I did eventually find one thing... the whole "Bioware has neglected the straight male gamer" thread controversy broke one week before the first news of the sales down turn was reported...

Anyway what do you think?

Well, I'll say that this might have been a bigger problem if I'd found the game more engaging and playable. I say might, I'm usually of the opinion that as long as it's well done, choice in RPGs tends to be a Good Thing.

The problem would always have been dwarfed by the fact that they nerfed (I'll paraphrase BK here):

1. Tactical combat
2. Party control
3. Character customization

...and so I don't know what they actually chose to have in the game for people who loved DA:O.

Without any of these delivered intact, the game basically did not deliver any of the gameplay elements that "sequel to DA:O" suggests.

It can be as good as it likes, and fair play if people have enjoyed it, but you have to admit it has been almost surgically deDragonAge'd

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Addai's husband

It didn't seem to have made a big difference over here. However, gay marriage/civil union has been a fact in our country for 25 + years.

I don't play male PCs so I've no idea how Anders plays out, but I hear that if he's shut down right away, he'll be a good boy. Personally, I have no clue why it should be such a big factor. It would be different if he is relentless in his pursuit of maleHawke. Is he then?

(husband)

No.   The problem comes more from relating to Dragon Age II with a Dragon Age Origons mind set.    Where you try to maximize those friendship bonuses etc.   The initial hit you take from a mild rejection seems pretty large from that perspective.   It's something like -10 or -15,   in Origons terms its huge.    But not when you acutally understand the game mechanics (5 pts in this game equals one point in Origons).


The problem I really had with the game was (unkown to me at the time) it made meeting Isabella contingent on finishing the intro quest with Anders.    So the first two play throughs I never met her.    The first time because I was trying to max out my approval with him.    On the second play through because by that time I was annoyed at the character and would rather have my sister in the party as the mage than him.


On later play throughs I handled him by being much more direct and abrupt than I would normaly be.    (I normally am diplomatic and humorous).

Modifié par Addai67, 07 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Addai]

(husband)

I'll have to look at that thanks.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
My fiancee was appalled when Anders started hitting on him.

He immediately un-installed the game off his hard-drive after that.

That's the kind of reasoning I'll never understand. (Happened with Zevran too)

No matter how hard I try.

[Sabriana]

@ Addai's husband

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, that could be a problem. A lot of people thought at first that rivalry is equal to disapproval. My compatriots are even more confused, because the brilliant translator turned rival into enemy. So instead of friend/rival, the people in my country got friend/enemy. A really stupid mistake because guess what the german word for "rival" is. It's "rivale". Yeah. brilliance abounded here.

My Hawke never paid much attention to Anders in the first place. I thought him boring, to be honest. I don't have Awakening, and he was brand new to me, I had no connection to him at all. She shut him down immediately and ignored him most of the time. She was a mage, so he wasn't really needed.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...
My fiancee was appalled when Anders started hitting on him.

He immediately un-installed the game off his hard-drive after that.

That's the kind of reasoning I'll never understand. (Happened with Zevran too)

No matter how hard I try.

He killed Zev. So yeah, he did not get hit on by him.

Killed him?

Now I am appalled.

[Gotholhorakh]

Sabriana wrote...
My Hawke never paid much attention to Anders in the first place. I thought him boring, to be honest. I don't have Awakening, and he was brand new to me, I had no connection to him at all. She shut him down immediately and ignored him most of the time. She was a mage, so he wasn't really needed.

"Alistair wears a pony-tail wig at weekends and dresses up as an apostate.

It's a lonely life kinging, I guess"

[Gotholhorakh]

Yeah, Zev was a lewd gross slimeball.

Couldn't be eviscerated quickly enough imo.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 07 mai 2011 - 09:59 .

[Persephone]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Yeah, Zev was a lewd gross slimeball.

Couldn't be eviscerated quickly enough imo.

Well...getting to know him......ah, whatever. Forget I said anything.:innocent:

[Realmzmaster]

This thread seems to have taken a whole different direction! Oh my goodness it has taken own a life of its own and abandoned it original intent!

[Sabriana]

Hey! Stop that. He was not. Poor Zevran. Oh well, I guess I personally made up for a lot of Zevran slaying. All my wardens went for him. His romance is the greatest thing since sliced bread, imo.