168 réponses à ce sujet

[Nathan Redgrave]

aimlessgun wrote...

There's nothing that says this event has to take longer than a loading screen. Currently for me, exiting the ship takes the same amount of time as a load screen. Getting back on takes slightly longer because of the decon scan, but that can easily be shortened.

You forgot the elevator you have to ride to even get to the ship in the first place. =/

[Nathan Redgrave]

Computer_God91 wrote...

subjective.

My stopwatch begs to differ.

[aimlessgun]

termokanden wrote...

Would you feel more immersed if you had to press a button to make Shepard take a breath then?

Or if you had to remember to feed Shepard or follow a regular sleep pattern so he doesn't get exhausted? There's a limit to how much realism is fun I think.

There's a name for the rhetorical fallacy you're using that I can't quite remember right now.

In any case, a good RPG needs all kinds of experiences. It cannot just be explosive action and big emotional moments constantly, because then the player gets normalized to it and they feel less special. A mix of experiences is good.

The little bits of realism needed (not too much, but not too little) can be implemented in a variety of ways. I happen to think the Normandy airlock is a fine way to do it.

[Computer_God91]

aimlessgun wrote...
Getting back on takes slightly longer because of the decon scan, but that can easily be shortened. 

Fixed in ME1 PC version, the screen fades out before the first pass of the laser even completes.

aimlessgun wrote...
Elevators are a different story. The Citadel elevators are LONG. But that's easily fixed...by simply making the elevators move faster. 

Which is what they did in the PC with the cargo elevator in the Normandy, which can be easily done to the rest of the game.

[termokanden]

Computer_God91 wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Would you feel more immersed if you had to press a button to make Shepard take a breath then?

Or if you had to remember to feed Shepard or follow a regular sleep pattern so he doesn't get exhausted? There's a limit to how much realism is fun I think.

Except for the fact that nobody is asking for that. We want things more seemless then a deck to the face loading screen

I was replying to this:

I don't stop breathing just because it's repetative, realism even when just airlocks and elevators adds to immersion for me.

I understand what you want. I just want to say that some of us play through the game multiple times, and some details like annoying doors and long elevator rides can get on your nerves a bit. I understand how some of these things are loading screens though.

This also brings another example to mind. In Red Dead Redemption, you have to watch an animation every single time you skin an animal or pick up herbs. It's cool in the beginning, but a lot of people hate it by the end of the game, and people start using tricks such as parking their horses on top of the dead animals just so the game can't show the animation.

You have to find a balance and make the player feel immersed without actually annoying them.

I'm not sure the airlock thing is a big deal though. To me it changes nothing immersion-wise, and time-wise also very little.

[Computer_God91]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

subjective.

My stopwatch begs to differ.

Maybe I'll time the event to see which is really faster cause I know you didn't.

[Paula Deen]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Getting on the Normandy was a loading screen. Why people would rather have a load screen then the decontamination is beyond me. Actually elevators > load screens.

Except the load screens wasted less of your time, so not really.

ME2 had better technology, coding, and a different game engine, so comparing ME1 loading times to ME2 loading times is completely pointless.

[Dragoonlordz]

termokanden wrote...

Would you feel more immersed if you had to press a button to make Shepard take a breath then?

Or if you had to remember to feed Shepard or follow a regular sleep pattern so he doesn't get exhausted? There's a limit to how much realism is fun I think.

It doesn't have to be fun, realism and immersion sometimes comes at cost of fun for some but overall I appreciate it more than fun factor. I don't really buy RPGs for gigglefests or boom headshot awesome 24/7. There will always be grind elements to RPGs even in ME2 was the planet scanning which was tedious but shorter but I love exploration and intricate details aswell as consistancy and realism. At the price of speeding up things some people don't like they tend to lose a lot of things that many others enjoy. Too much these days is being sacrificed in RPGs for quick thrills and instant gratification. It seems some of the playerbase these days are so lacking in patience that they want things gone like it was somehow an insult against their existance to have something in game others enjoy. Do you also wish for the aniimations to show the firing of a gun or reloading only a few times from then on just creatures and mobs dropping dead at push of button too. It would be quicker and by your standards the same principle applies.

P.s. My breathing comment was humour.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 mai 2011 - 07:43 .

[termokanden]

aimlessgun wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Would you feel more immersed if you had to press a button to make Shepard take a breath then?

Or if you had to remember to feed Shepard or follow a regular sleep pattern so he doesn't get exhausted? There's a limit to how much realism is fun I think.

There's a name for the rhetorical fallacy you're using that I can't quite remember right now.

The only mistake I made was not quoting the post to which this is a response. It really makes perfect sense in context.

Had it been up to me, throwing "fallacy" around in an attempt to humiliate someone just because you don't agree with them ought to be considered a fallacy in intself. And now I'm doing it, great 

Modifié par termokanden, 07 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[Computer_God91]

termokanden wrote...

I understand what you want. I just want to say that some of us play through the game multiple times, and some details like annoying doors and long elevator rides can get on your nerves a bit.

I've played through ME1 on 360 and PC a total of over 20 times (not even exaggerating) and not once did those elevators or decons even bug me. I also loved the mako too. Both were removed in ME2 and I can't stand the loading screens or the mission complete screen. Both rape the games immersion and loading screens take away from squad banter and news reports that ME1's elevators had, which made me want to take elevators just to hear.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 07 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Computer_God91 wrote...

I've played through ME1 on 360 and PC a total of over 20 times (not even exaggerating) and not once did those elevators or decons even bug me.

Good for you. However, not all of us have the patience of Zen gurus.

For the record, I enjoyed the elevator rides for the duration of my first playthrough. I tolerated them for the second.

It was the third playthrough where I started to get just a little annoyed with them.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Paula Deen wrote...

ME2 had better technology, coding, and a different game engine, so comparing ME1 loading times to ME2 loading times is completely pointless.

None of the actual load screens were that long. It was only the elevator rides that were long.

Of course, then there was the whole texture pop-in thing, but that's a whole different kind of annoyance.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Maybe I'll time the event to see which is really faster cause I know you didn't.

Be sure to include the elevator ride on the way in. =3

[aimlessgun]

termokanden wrote...
This also brings another example to mind. In Red Dead Redemption, you have to watch an animation every single time you skin an animal or pick up herbs. It's cool in the beginning, but a lot of people hate it by the end of the game, and people start using tricks such as parking their horses on top of the dead animals just so the game can't show the animation.

You have to find a balance and make the player feel immersed without actually annoying them.

I'm not sure the airlock thing is a big deal though. To me it changes nothing immersion-wise, and time-wise also very little.

I wonder how much you can turn into options. Like the Fallout New Vegas option of whether you needed to eat and drink or not. Most of this stuff is way smaller than that though.

[Dragoonlordz]

I hate when people want something gone because it was a 'little' annoying to them or 'slightly' frustrating, seriously makes me want to slap them.. Why demand or ask for something to be removed that you don't 'truly' hate or is not an affront to your very existance while others enjoy or like it. It's not going to kill you to tolerate something instead of pushing for the removal of what others enjoy.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 mai 2011 - 07:57 .

[Computer_God91]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Paula Deen wrote...

ME2 had better technology, coding, and a different game engine, so comparing ME1 loading times to ME2 loading times is completely pointless.

None of the actual load screens were that long. It was only the elevator rides that were long.

Of course, then there was the whole texture pop-in thing, but that's a whole different kind of annoyance.

Pop in's were also for the most part solved on PC too.

Here is my question you and everyone who didn't like elevators because of how long they took:

If Elevators took the same amount of time as loading screens which would you rather have?

An elevator with party banter and news reports or a screen with dull repeative videos and hints that don't even take in account of your switching your keys so its telling you the wrong key to do something.

[Computer_God91]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

Maybe I'll time the event to see which is really faster cause I know you didn't.

Be sure to include the elevator ride on the way in. =3

Not if im on Noveria or Feros

Modifié par Computer_God91, 07 mai 2011 - 07:52 .

[Vena_86]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Really? Something that petty?

You do know this was actually relatively rare in ME1: just Feros, Noveria, and the Citadel. Everything else was pretty much the same as how its done in ME2, only you were shown getting dropped off in the Mako rather than the shuttle.

Might I add that having to walk from Galaxy Map to airlock in those cases was pretty annoying.

So, no. The thing they have in place is fine. I'm no fan of the load screens, but this is not needed.

Many developers know the importance of not disconnecting the gameworld through loading screens. It is a known fact of game design and not something "petty". Also, as the OP said, it is details like this that make a game whole. Often when games are streamlined down, many people feel that something from the overall experience is missing but can't point their fingers on what exactly. It is details like this that seperate another game from a greater experience in an artificial universe.

[Dragoonlordz]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

So, no. The thing they have in place is fine. I'm no fan of the load screens, but this is not needed.

Not needed by (you), as shown in this thread they are needed by others for immersion and consistancy whether you agree with them or not you cannot make a blanket statement saying they are not needed as a statement of fact.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 mai 2011 - 07:56 .

[Evercrow]

Airlock sequence was kinda cool. But in ME2 it would make sense only on Illium and Omega(auto undocking was annoying, but to fix that you don't have to add airlock, just options to go to armor or research screen, not just squadmate exchange) . On Citadel Shep takes transit car from docks anyway, on Tuchanka they don't have high enough docking towers.
So if airlock scene makes a return, but only in small amount, I would be glad.

And I do hope this thread will clear up a little. You don't have to prove that usual loading screens or poorly made "hidden loading screens" are bad,people, chill. That's just necessary evil for some game engines.

[termokanden]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I hate when people want something gone because it was a 'little' annoying to them or 'slightly' frustrating, seriously makes me want to slap them.. Why demand or ask for something to be removed that you don't 'truly' hate or is an affront to your very existance while others enjoy or like it. It's not going to kill you to tolerate something instead of pushing for the removal of what others enjoy.

I understand that to be honest. I don't remember pushing for something to be removed completely either.

I think it was done well on the Citadel. Quick travel for the impatient people, and you can walk to the elevator if you want.

[Dragoonlordz]

I guess the solution really is an option to either enable auto/quick travel or keep disabled for keeping realism time/visual travel between areas.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I hate when people want something gone because it was a 'little' annoying to them or 'slightly' frustrating, seriously makes me want to slap them.. Why demand or ask for something to be removed that you don't 'truly' hate or is not an affront to your very existance while others enjoy or like it. It's not going to kill you to tolerate something instead of pushing for the removal of what others enjoy.

One elevator ride or airlock sequence is annoying. A whole game's worth is quite a bit more than "slightly" frustrating. That's a collective how much time I could have spent actually playing the game rather than being "immersed" in it?

Fun fact: other people enjoy E-102 Gamma, Sonic '06, Shadow the Hedgehog, and all manner of things most people hate about the Sonic franchise. This in no way justifies the argument that we should "tolerate" those things. Same for the elevators. Only, you know, on a much smaller scale.

[Bostur]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I hate when people want something gone because it was a 'little' annoying to them or 'slightly' frustrating, seriously makes me want to slap them.. Why demand or ask for something to be removed that you don't 'truly' hate or is not an affront to your very existance while others enjoy or like it. It's not going to kill you to tolerate something instead of pushing for the removal of what others enjoy.

One elevator ride or airlock sequence is annoying. A whole game's worth is quite a bit more than "slightly" frustrating. That's a collective how much time I could have spent actually playing the game rather than being "immersed" in it?

Fun fact: other people enjoy E-102 Gamma, Sonic '06, Shadow the Hedgehog, and all manner of things most people hate about the Sonic franchise. This in no way justifies the argument that we should "tolerate" those things. Same for the elevators. Only, you know, on a much smaller scale.

To me being immersed in a game, can be the same thing as playing it. I don't know how much time I've spent walking about the Normandy, but I'm sure it's a lot. You could say the same thing about the way the Normandy is implemented, its not necessary for the shooter game play, but it sure helps immersion. The airlock was a prop in the same way as everything else on the Normandy, not strictly necessary for gameplay but important for the setting.
ME would have been pretty dull if it had only been a linked series of missions.

Modifié par Bostur, 07 mai 2011 - 08:14 .

[Computer_God91]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

subjective.

My stopwatch begs to differ.

So the C-sec elevator take 46 seconds to travel through. then to walk to the normandy is about 10, the decon on PC is about another 5.

All and all it is about 1 minute from C-sec to the normandy, thats so much time! /sarcasm

If you played like me then you'd find every possible way around that 1 minute by passing it as few times as possible. That is only the Citadel, if you anywhere else its about 5 seconds through decon and then you're on the ship and from there it takes 17 seconds to walk to the galaxy map.

Remember I didn't run at all, this is all walking.

From the galaxy map to the citadel in ME2 with the cinematic its 1 minute 5 seconds. The same amount of time. I know I can skip the cinematic in my game cause of mods, I don't know if you're able to on xbox.

Yes, I really went this far to prove a point. So now it comes do to the question of which you prefer.