54 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Aveline will not leave if Fenris did. Likewise, Merrill will not leave if Anders did. Also, I've had Fenris turn on me even with max friendship if I didn't do the quest about his sister before the final battle. I'm thinking whether a character stays or leaves also depends on what you've done for them rather than solely friendship/rivalry. Or maybe Fenris just has an unusually severe case of PMS. That would explain much.

I'm 99.999% sure the reason Orsino has an entourage out there is just for gameplay reasons. Like Meredith, there has to be someone to tie up Hawke while the enemy leader retreats to the Gallows. In Best Served Cold Orsino was afraid to leave the Gallows because the templars would assume him being gone automatically meant he was involved in whatever the mages part of Thrask's conspiracy were doing. I don't think it's fair to say a guy who can't go buy a beer on his own has great influence.

[Macropodmum]

If I can find a save close to that point I will check it for you if you like

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Aveline will not leave if Fenris did. Likewise, Merrill will not leave if Anders did. Also, I've had Fenris turn on me even with max friendship if I didn't do the quest about his sister before the final battle. I'm thinking whether a character stays or leaves also depends on what you've done for them rather than solely friendship/rivalry. Or maybe Fenris just has an unusually severe case of PMS. That would explain much.

I did the quest with his sister and sided with him through every one of his quests regarding the slavers but he still turned on me, I assumed at the time that this was more to do with his hatred and distrust of mages than our friendship.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Macropodmum wrote...

If I can find a save close to that point I will check it for you if you like

That'd be cool, thanks. I have some saves I might check back on myself, but the more people who test it out the better.

[Macropodmum]

Alright I just checked, my friendship with Fenris is high but not maxed, my friendship with Aveline is maxed. Fenris is the first to step up and say that he will not help me fight for the mages (for fear they will become like the Tevinter magisters) at that point Aveline states that she can see what I'm doing and that she will stand with me (even though she stated we should support the knight commander at the begining of the argument.

I'm sure that Rifneno is correct and either one or the other will stand with you, maybe it is based on a dice roll and not on anything we do...shrugs...

Edit: It might be worth noting that I played through as a female rogue, and did not romance him. 

Modifié par Macropodmum, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:11 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Hm, ok, thanks for that. Unfortunately my last save with non-maxed friend/rival is a bit away from the end, so it will take me a little longer to get back to the last quest myself.

[WeRtheBrox]

I don't know if this helps, but in both of my completed games everyone was maxed out one way or the other except Sebastian (and Isabela in my first game, who bailed in Act 2), and he was the only one that left.

[Macropodmum]

Just got to this part in my 2nd playthrough, I romanced Fenris this time and he did not abandon me, neither did Aveline. So I have my entire party of companions at my disposal except for Sebastian (because I wouldn't kill Anders) and Anders because I told him to take a hike.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Thanks WeRtheBrox and Macropodmum I think it's scenarios where companions aren't at max Friendship/Rivalry or uncompleted final Questioning Beliefs we'll have to check out now.

[Feanor_II]

Fenris
If you side with the mages and you do not have Fenris maxed in Friendship or Rivalry, after a brief dialogue he will join the templars in attacking you and you will be forced to kill him. (There are unconfirmed claims you can talk Fenris down into siding with you.)

Fenris was the only companion I didn't have "maxed", I had about 75-80% of Friendship, I sided with mages and killed Anders, but he left the party. I met him again in the Gallows with the templars, after talking with them a bit I had the chance to tell him if he "wished for the mages the kind of slavery he suffered in Tevinter", saying that he rejoined my team.

[Macropodmum]

Feanor_II wrote...

Fenris
If you side with the mages and you do not have Fenris maxed in Friendship or Rivalry, after a brief dialogue he will join the templars in attacking you and you will be forced to kill him. (There are unconfirmed claims you can talk Fenris down into siding with you.)

Fenris was the only companion I didn't have "maxed", I had about 75-80% of Friendship, I sided with mages and killed Anders, but he left the party. I met him again in the Gallows with the templars, after talking with them a bit I had the chance to tell him if he "wished for the mages the kind of slavery he suffered in Tevinter", saying that he rejoined my team.

That is good to know, my last play through I must have picked the wrong choice because at that point I had to kill him.....What was nice this time was that when Varric said that after a while they were all forced to leave the champions side, all except Fenris (so much better ending than romancing Anders)

Modifié par Macropodmum, 17 juillet 2011 - 12:15 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@Feanor_II - Awesome, thank you! I'll update the original post.

[Tommy6860]

Feanor_II wrote...

Fenris
If you side with the mages and you do not have Fenris maxed in Friendship or Rivalry, after a brief dialogue he will join the templars in attacking you and you will be forced to kill him. (There are unconfirmed claims you can talk Fenris down into siding with you.)

Fenris was the only companion I didn't have "maxed", I had about 75-80% of Friendship, I sided with mages and killed Anders, but he left the party. I met him again in the Gallows with the templars, after talking with them a bit I had the chance to tell him if he "wished for the mages the kind of slavery he suffered in Tevinter", saying that he rejoined my team.

That's it, now I remmeber that. I was going to add something but I couldn't place it. I only played through it twice, but I remember Fenris was still mid-way in friend/rival range on the scale. There was only one dialgoue option I had where he wonouldn't attack me if I sided with the mages, and the one you mention is it.

[Bigdoser]

aryon69 wrote...

If Carver went to the GW's he can't believe you would side with a crazy Meredith and seems rather angery at you for it but will join you cause you are the only family he has left. If you side with the mages he is all cool with it and is eager to aid his sister/brother in the fight. Talk about doing a 180 from earlier in the game. I had him closer to friend than rival but the bar was mostly in the middle for me. Not sure if this has any affect or not.

Well since carver is with the GW hw ould have worked with a few mages heck some may actually be his friends so that may be the reason why he reacts that way if you side with Meredith.

[maxernst]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...


If you side with the mages and let Anders go, he will confront you in the Gallows and ask that you let him help you. If you refuse he will wish you well and leave. If you accept he will be a party member once again.

Fenris
If you side with the mages and you do not have Fenris maxed in Friendship or Rivalry, after a brief dialogue he will leave your party. You will encounter him later at the Gallows with some templars, and there will be dialogue which decides whether or not he will attack you. Asking him if he wishes for the mages to suffer the kind of slavery he did in Tevinter will result in him rejoining you.

My Hawke was too angry at Anders to even talk to him at the Gallows in that situation.  I saw Anders there but pointedly ignored him, so he never "confronted" me. 

[Gervaise]

I have just been reading the comparison endings and I seem to have a cross over one.  I had been taking the neutral path right up to the end of Act 3 when I opted for supporting the Templars even though I was a mage.  So after all the various fights, the Templars all bow to me, the epilogue says I was begged to be leader (though I didn't see the Viscount Achievement), yet I still became a rallying point for mages against oppression and encourage some Templars to rebel too.  This was highly ironic because way back I had been all for mage freedom, then had a change of heart as a result of events and would not accept the mantle of mage leader that Anders wanted to foist on me.  So what do you suppose caused my epilogue - the fact that a mage actually supported the Templars?  If so, all credit to the game designers for actually allowing for such an unusual choice.

[Gervaise]

I seem to have a cross over ending. I was a mage, yet supported the Templars. After all the fighting the Templars bowed the knee to me and the epilogue states I was begged to rule (but I saw no Viscount Achievement), yet I still became the focus for mage rebellion and Templars too. This seems a combination of the two other endings. So is this because I remained neutral right up to the end of Act 3 or the fact that as a mage I took the highly unusual course of supporting the Templars?

[DiebytheSword]

I too recieved a crossover ending that put both versions together. I assume that my neutral, smartass Hawk kept pointing to both sides being wrong. Mages are dangerous AND Templars are genocidal oppressors. I chose to chastise both Orsino and Meredith during the beginning of Act III. I backed the templars but spared the mages, and became Viscount.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Gervaise and DiebytheSword. I too have played as a mage and supported the Templars. I got the same responses. My Hawke was also a wise ****** and also keep saying both sides were in the wrong. I really didn't want to support either side until I was forced to make a decision. I killed Anders in the playthrough.

However, I had already unlocked the Viscount achievement with my first Hawke who sided with the mages so I don't know how this applies in my other playthroughs, I really didn't pay attention.

I'd also like to note that I've never gained Nathaniel Howe at the end. I don't know if this is because I always have my party members at max friendship or Rivarly? I only got Donnic once and I think this was due to me saying to Aveline that the city guards needed to fight with us. Even though I had done all of Aveline's quests and she has always been at full friendship. I've never done a rivarly with her.

The only companions that I've truly ever lost was Sebastian when siding with the mages and keeping Anders alive.  I've lost Fenris once.  I've never lost Merrill in any playthough at the end nor had the option come up to kill her. One playthrough she wasn't at full friendship, somehow I choose the wrong responses but she still stood with me at the final battle. If I remember correctly I had to explain my decision to her and then she was ok with my decision. I do remember this.  I don't always get Zevran either since most companions show up.  I think we are only allowed eight in total?  If this isn't correct will something acknowledge how many are allowed not party members.  Those that you didn't choose to fight Meredith...how many total is what I'm asking outside of Hawke's party.

Just a note to the OP, that conversation about the ships happens between Ferelden refugees in Darktown just before or after getting the letter to meet King Alistair at the keep. It's a female Ferelden refugee that makes this comment. I think she has blonde hair.   You have to be careful or a player will miss the conversation when running by.  I had to stop and listen to the conversation since I couldn't hear it very plain. 

I'd also like to make a note of the fact during the scene siding with the Templars.  The mages that I agree to spare their lives are killed anyway by the templar that Meredith leaves in the gallows.   The Templar also fights me and my party before confronting Meredith in the Gallows courtyard.  I can't leave the gallows until I kill that Templar.  It's the templar that is seen praying when your fighting through the rooms of the gallows.  When you've cleared everything my party gets confused because his red dot pops up on the map that he is there and they get hung up on the wrong exit back to the gallows gate to leave.  I have to hold them in postion and move each companion out to fight him.  I'm assuming this is a glitch or a bug in their confusion in following me back to the Gallows gate. 

I do have a video card that the game is having issues with so this could be the problem on companions getting hung up in the gallows. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 19 juillet 2011 - 07:48 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

maxernst wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...


If you side with the mages and let Anders go, he will confront you in the Gallows and ask that you let him help you. If you refuse he will wish you well and leave. If you accept he will be a party member once again.

Fenris
If you side with the mages and you do not have Fenris maxed in Friendship or Rivalry, after a brief dialogue he will leave your party. You will encounter him later at the Gallows with some templars, and there will be dialogue which decides whether or not he will attack you. Asking him if he wishes for the mages to suffer the kind of slavery he did in Tevinter will result in him rejoining you.

My Hawke was too angry at Anders to even talk to him at the Gallows in that situation.  I saw Anders there but pointedly ignored him, so he never "confronted" me. 

So if you ingore him before the final battle does he help you?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

You guys who are having differing situations with Fenris -- Is Aveline still in your party or did she leave you?

I have not done this scene myself (yet), so relying on info from others.

I've also never lost Aveline when Fenris left in one playthrough that I had when siding with the mages.   Aveline was at 100% friendship.   I only lost Sebastian and Fenris.

[Macropodmum]

I just reloaded my last final battle with Meredith, controlled party members were Hawke, Fenris, Bethany (warden), and Varric + dog. Joining the fight were Cullen (which is probably standard), Aveline, Isabella, Zevran and Nathaniel.

So it may be right that you are limited to eight fighting against Meredith as I know in my previous fight where I had lost Fenris,Isabella, Anders (and I didn't have Sebastian at that point), Donnic joined in that time along with Nathaniel (and I'm sure there were some city guards? Unfortunately I don't have that save file anymore)

[Gervaise]

I too had problems with the Templar. Didn't see him kill the mages but he did suddenly appear as a red dot and the majority of my party gathered in a dead end because it was nearest him. So I had to run back and find him so the fight could finish. I also had problems with enemies the wrong side of fire barriers who could only be killed with long range attacks - definitely a glitch. I got Nathaniel and Zevran but don't recall Donnick, although I did ask for the guards to help. By the end my party choices were somewhat limited as Isabella did not return after double crossing over the book and Anders was dead. So went with 3 tanks - Fenris, Averline and Carver, leaving Varric and Merrill to do their own thing. The latter said she would support me but I didn't see her anywhere. I must admit that what I would have done if I'd chosen the mages would probably have been - died. I assume Fenris would have stood by me because maximum friendship and love interest but presume Averline and Carver would be ruled out, so would have been left with Varric and Merrill (or Anders if I spared him), which against Templars I don't think would have been sufficient but you never know. Will have to reload at some point and try it.

[Gervaise]

Have just reloaded at the beginning of Final Straw and played it with me supporting the mages.  Fenris supports me, though comments on the irony of him defending mages, and so does Averline, even though we are sort of medium range, neither friends or rivals.  Anders comes with me as requested to put things right.  These form my final line up, so only Carver has changed and we are seriously kick ass, thanks largely to Anders' fire power backing up my own.  But the really comical part is that Anders and Averline are still finding time to bicker between battles, largerly because Anders is still totally unrepentant about what he did (jerk) and Averline keeps insisting that when it is all over (assuming we survive) he will turn himself in.  You'd think that with us being attacked by Templars, demons and abominations they'd both have more pressing matters on their mind.    Of course the game won't do this but in my world I think may be when the battle is done I'll give the wink to Fenris and let him remind Anders what repentance and putting things right is really all about.  I'm looking forward to seeing what Anders and Averline have to say about Orsino. Anyway back to the game.

[Gervaise]

Further update.  How now fought Orsino and it is clearly a blatant piece of plot manipulation because when the Templars attacked, we held the line and in the fight screen nearly all the mages we are meant to be protecting are still standing at the end of the battle.  Then it switches to the cut scene with Orsino looking around at dead mages and apparently despairing at the impossibility of it all, which presumably is meant to justify his drastic action but from the point of view of my play through it looks like he had either killed them himself or got them to commit suicide.  Then after we killed him, Anders comments that it was an act of desperation.  No, its an act of criminal stupidity because we're winning. And unlike the Templar run through I didn't get to challenge Orsino over his concealing the murderer and it makes it sound like he was just hanging onto some books that the guy left behind.  To cap it all Anders still doesn't get the fact that I let him live to make amends but he thinks I'm supporting him in what he did.   Yet another of those wierd dialogue blips because there is no way that any of my conversation choices indicated I approved of his actions.   Strangely enough he is also invoking the name of Andraste to bless us in the coming conflict, so it would appear that both sides think the Maker is with us.  Typical.  Mind you it would go some way to explaining the total loss of confidence in the Chantry when I win because clearly the Maker is with us.  Well I am a Force mage!!.
I checked the bar with Averline and it is on the friendship side of neutral so I must assume that is why she stayed with me.  So everyone will be in the final battle as for the Templar run through apart from Carver.  Donnick has already been excused by Averline on the grounds that he and his men are keeping order in the city at large and unlike the Templar run through I don't get the option of asking for their help but that is fine with me because Averline has already put her neck on the line for me without involving anyone else.  Fenris still adores me and doesn't want me to die so it really must be love.