402 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlasskiwi]

javierabegazo wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
Playing Mass Effect 1 and looking down my sniper rifle scope with it bouncing all over the place isn't fun. The thing we need to focus on in discussion is what classic RPG elements are fun to have in a game where most of the combat revolves around gunplay?

And in a situation where Shepard should start the game with the best technology the Alliance and/or Cerberus can get their hands on. (Yes, I'm still crusading against having shops in ME.)

Something I always wanted was the inclusion of the actual Weapons Manufacterers and doing quests involving them to get experimental tech

I think that would be a great way to get some new, better equipment. It would be better than buying it in a normal store.

[rolson00]

Someone With Mass wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
Yeah, I'm very excited for ME3, having us go to these homeworlds I think will surely give us a great sense of scale, and it was said in GameInformer that battlefields will be larger, more diverse, and not just flat long corriders with obvious cover

We'll even be able to climb up ladders.:P

hmmm i hope they dont make it too hard imagine doing it on insanity

[Digifi]

Although that could make for some of the most exciting moments in the game. A crowd of husks, all you have to do is rip through 3 of them guarding that ladder and then make it up before their buddies show up and knock you off the ladder and overwhelm you. That was rather rare in ME2 or ME1 where you had to let your instincts be your tactical guide. I love a good "don't think, just do" moment now and again.

[kalwren]

Decided to make my posts in this new thread more a of a wish-list rather than a “I'm concerned about the CRPG mechanics” post, since butting heads doesn’t really get us anywhere. And besides these are same things I wanted to see ME2 so...

The games design is already likely locked in at this point (so no holding breath), but for what its worth in ME3 I'd like to see some outside-combat dedicated or non dedicated skills like hacking, engineering, explosives, medicine, stealth, diplomacy, charm etc, and game-play mechanics to make having those skills worthwhile, Opening locks, accessing terminals, repairing systems, crafting items, disarming / planting traps, sneaking past encounters rather than fighting everything, dialogue skill impact on conversations etc. Just some good ole fashioned classic CRPG game-play mechanics that I can immerse into.
Also I wanna determine how fit, smart and combat proficient my Shep is. Skills that increase stamina, health, specific firearms skills that improve weapon handling, (though not roll to hit like the first game.) More like improvements on recoil recovery, stability, aim speed, overheating etc. The more complex the better. Can I play my shep as kick-ass, ask questions later type of gal, or a sweet talker, capable of bypassing almost any encounter with words. The game should support multiple ways of playing.
A greater choice of non-damaging in-combat skills would also be great for a more tactical combat experience. Squad buffs, debuffs, AoE griefing powers. I don’t want to see every squad member all dealing damage with their powers. That’s a bit pointless. You may as well just have Shep guns a blazin one man army style if every character brings the same damage skills to encounters.

And auto-level up for those that don’t want to be bothered with any of that.

What I wanna see most of all is a return of the inventory. But not like the old one. Something more like the limited grid inventory systems of Deus Ex or System Shock 2. Basically it limits how much crap you can carry around without the need for weight stats and such. And you don’t lose out on cool loot rewards for exploration or completing side quests. Also being able to distribute armour, weapons and equipment freely among our squad members on the fly puts a lot more choice and freedom in the players court, rather than the game designers.
That’s what I wanna see for ME3. 

Modifié par kalwren, 07 mai 2011 - 08:23 .

[tonnactus]

Words are cheap.Casey Hudson also stated that Mass Effect 2 had rich exploration and the planet scanning was engaging...

[javierabegazo]

tonnactus wrote...

Words are cheap.Casey Hudson also stated that Mass Effect 2 had rich exploration and the planet scanning was engaging...

And Pessimism is also cheap. Norman could put out a video detailing how rich the RPG mechanics are and I'm sure you'd still find something to pick at.


There comes a point where the devs take the stance of "Well, why waste time in the forums if they're going to nitpick and just never be happy about anything" and then they show up in the forums less and less.


It mainly just comes down to respect. Disappointment is one thing, but there's a more considerate way to express disappointment as opposed to "Blah blah, here's my money, give me the game I want, or else".

We aren't doing them a service. They are doing us a service and we're compensating them for it.

[javierabegazo]

kalwren wrote...

Decided to make my posts in this new thread more a of a wish-list rather than a “I'm concerned about the CRPG mechanics” post, since butting heads doesn’t really get us anywhere. And besides these are same things I wanted to see ME2 so...

The games design is already likely locked in at this point (so no holding breath), but for what its worth in ME3 I'd like to see some outside-combat dedicated or non dedicated skills like hacking, engineering, explosives, medicine, stealth, diplomacy, charm etc, and game-play mechanics to make having those skills worthwhile, Opening locks, accessing terminals, repairing systems, crafting items, disarming / planting traps, sneaking past encounters rather than fighting everything, dialogue skill impact on conversations etc. Just some good ole fashioned classic CRPG game-play mechanics that I can immerse into.
Also I wanna determine how fit, smart and combat proficient my Shep is. Skills that increase stamina, health, specific firearms skills that improve weapon handling, (though not roll to hit like the first game.) More like improvements on recoil recovery, stability, aim speed, overheating etc. The more complex the better. Can I play my shep as kick-ass, ask questions later type of gal, or a sweet talker, capable of bypassing almost any encounter with words. The game should support multiple ways of playing.

I do NOT want this. at least not in Mass Effect 3. The mass effect trilogy was never concieved as, nor eventually made to be a cRPG by any means at all. The fact that DAO has all of that and Mass Effect doesn't is one of the reasons why I've done 12+ playthroughs in ME2, and only 3 in DAO.

However multiple paths through levels is certainly something that I want

A greater choice of non-damaging in-combat skills would also be great for a more tactical combat experience. Squad buffs, debuffs, AoE griefing powers. I don’t want to see every squad member all dealing damage with their powers. That’s a bit pointless. You may as well just have Shep guns a blazin one man army style if every character brings the same damage skills to encounters.

Well what do you think about AI hacking, Dominate, or Area Pull, or Area Overload, or Singularity or Stasis, were those not enough?

And auto-level up for those that don’t want to be bothered with any of that.

Just because players don't want to spend an hour before each battle making sure I've calculated my "survivability %" doesn't mean they don't want to customize their ability set.

This word "streamline" that typically has awful connotation also has a positive connotation and that is, taking out the unessential elements (i.e. tedium). Whats essential and unessential isn't for you to decide because you're not the game developer.

What I wanna see most of all is a return of the inventory. But not like the old one. Something more like the limited grid inventory systems of Deus Ex or System Shock 2. Basically it limits how much crap you can carry around without the need for weight stats and such. And you don’t lose out on cool loot rewards for exploration or completing side quests. Also being able to distribute armour, weapons and equipment freely among our squad members on the fly puts a lot more choice and freedom in the players court, rather than the game designers.
That’s what I wanna see for ME3. 

Don't be disapointed if you don't see armor distribution in ME3 then, because there's probably a 80% chance that we won't see it at all. The downside to no armor distribution is obvious, less player customization.

The up side to armor distribution is something that a lot of players take for granted, and that's individual animations per character, and having them be more of their own person rather than you getting to play dress-up.

[didymos1120]

tonnactus wrote...

Words are cheap.Casey Hudson also stated that Mass Effect 2 had rich exploration and the planet scanning was engaging...

Pretty sure the "rich exploration" was Ray Muzyka, actually.  I don't recall anyone ever saying anything about scanning being "engaging".  What I do remember Hudson saying is that some people called it "strangely addictive" or the like (which is true: people do say that, including the interviewer in that piece.  I don't get it, but there's no accounting for taste sometimes). But he also said it was never intended as something for people to spend great gobs of time on. The idea was that you grab minerals when you actually need minerals, and then get on with the rest of the game.

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 mai 2011 - 09:15 .

[tonnactus]

javierabegazo wrote...


And Pessimism is also cheap.

Not when it has good reasons,like promises made in the past that they werent keeped.(rich customization in Mass Effect2,sure)

[Phaedon]

In the other thread:

Person 1: ...no meaningless non-combat stats...
Person 2: OMG they are gonna dumb it down
Person 3: But removing meaningless stuff is a good thing...
Person 2: But he said non-combat stats!
Person 3: But ME1 didn't have any non-combat stats, other than the intimidation/ persuasion one.
Person 2: *Rage*

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Person4:

[SalsaDMA]

didymos1120 wrote...

 The idea was that you grab minerals when you actually need minerals, and then get on with the rest of the game.

Goes to show that they didn't think of the synergy of their mechanics then. Limited fuel that you have to pay for makes people less likely to do as they appearantly thought people would do, but instead make people do their mining while they are in the system and have used the fuel to get there anyway.


It wouldn't hurt them to think of how game mechanics interact with each other if this particular detail came as big surprise to them... <_<

[didymos1120]

tonnactus wrote...
Not when it has good reasons,like promises made in the past that they werent keeped.(rich customization in Mass Effect2,sure)

If you're going to call people out for broken promises, could you please cite those promises?

[mangiraffedog3]

didymos1120 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Not when it has good reasons,like promises made in the past that they werent keeped.(rich customization in Mass Effect2,sure)

If you're going to call people out for broken promises, could you please cite those promises?

He was probably refering to the quote by Ray Muzyka where he says ME2 has "great customization".

[didymos1120]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Goes to show that they didn't think of the synergy of their mechanics then. Limited fuel that you have to pay for makes people less likely to do as they appearantly thought people would do, but instead make people do their mining while they are in the system and have used the fuel to get there anyway.


It wouldn't hurt them to think of how game mechanics interact with each other if this particular detail came as big surprise to them... <_<

I'm not saying it was particularly well-designed.  I'm just correcting a misrepresentation of what they've said about it.  Scanning could definitely use some retooling. I mean, it's serviceable, but I wouldn't exactly call myself a fan. 

And yeah: fuel was just pointless. I really didn't like the whole manual flight version of the Galaxy Map much at all.  It never made me go "Ooooh, I'm in SPACE!"  I just felt like I was moving some little toy around.  I much prefer the "You're using an advanced navigation interface" approach.

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 mai 2011 - 09:29 .

[didymos1120]

mangiraffedog3 wrote...

He was probably refering to the quote by Ray Muzyka where he says ME2 has "great customization".

Yeah, I know they said stuff like that.  It just bugs the hell out of me on principle when people say "X said Y" and don't have the courtesy to cite.  I shouldn't have to do your googling, you know?

[Wulfram]

javierabegazo wrote...


Yeah, I'm very excited for ME3, having us go to these homeworlds I think will surely give us a great sense of scale, and it was said in GameInformer that battlefields will be larger, more diverse, and not just flat long corriders with obvious cover

I don't think having a hub with three shops and a couple of brief missions representing the homeworld of a mighty space empire will give us a good sense of scale.  Rather the opposite, actually.

[Da Mecca]

Hey, it's the last in the series.

They are going all out, give it a chance.

[Kandid001]

Coolio.

[javierabegazo]

Wulfram wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...


Yeah, I'm very excited for ME3, having us go to these homeworlds I think will surely give us a great sense of scale, and it was said in GameInformer that battlefields will be larger, more diverse, and not just flat long corriders with obvious cover

I don't think having a hub with three shops and a couple of brief missions representing the homeworld of a mighty space empire will give us a good sense of scale.  Rather the opposite, actually.

So you were able to get the particulars of BioWare's ME3 Locations? Or did you think I was talking about ME2?

[AlanC9]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...
Re #3 - Depends on what you consider "important". Getting all possible loot is important to some. Access to bonus experience, bonus equipment, etc...

Sure. I was talking about stuff that's important to the NPC himself, rather than what the player does or doesn't think is important. (Though really, I should have said plot-critical.)

DAO is a particular offender here -- the stuff in the unlocked chests is far, far better than the stuff in the locked chests. Why do people lock up their junk and not their good stuff? And the answer, of course, is that Bio doesn't want non-rogue PCs to have to take Leliana or Zevran on every quest, and if the good stuff was in the locked chests then they'd have to do that or risk being severely gimped, as opposed to only slightly gimped. Not so much an issue in ME1 because there's such a blizzard of random loot that you'll get what you need soon enough anyway

It shouldn't be necessary to complete a mission, obviously, but provide other ways of achieving results. The Archangel mission where you can hack the targeting system of the mech is a good example of something you could miss out on if you don't have a tech character with you.  

Yeah, that sort of thing would work fine in an ME1 system. The problems come with non-optional things. An NPC can install security doors, but only where they can't  keep people from getting at him to kill him (or take his stuff, or whatever the mission's about). So you can't ever use security systems on anything plot-critical.

Of course, we do have to accept a certain level of this sort of thing anyway. The NPCs are never going to actually be able to stop determined PCs. 

[mangiraffedog6]

Ahem... I'm not a huge lover of having a lot of different stats. For example, I really liked the way ME2 got rid of the paragon/renegade stats, as they were annoying. I'd hope in ME3 they do a mix of ME1/2.

javierabegazo wrote...

Something I always wanted was the inclusion of the actual Weapons Manufacterers and doing quests involving them to get experimental tech

I think that's a great idea however I'd find it hard to believe a weapons manufacturer would withhold a really nice gun from the supposed savior of the galaxy until he did a quest. It might work if the quest itself was physically getting the tech though.

[Apollo Starflare]

didymos1120 wrote...
Pretty sure the "rich exploration" was Ray Muzyka, actually.  I don't recall anyone ever saying anything about scanning being "engaging".  What I do remember Hudson saying is that some people called it "strangely addictive" or the like (which is true: people do say that, including the interviewer in that piece.  I don't get it, but there's no accounting for taste sometimes). But he also said it was never intended as something for people to spend great gobs of time on. The idea was that you grab minerals when you actually need minerals, and then get on with the rest of the game.

This. I think the main fault was that it was clumsily implemented in that fashion. In every playthrough since my first I have approuched it with this mindset and it's not gotten in the way of the game in the slightest (and worked a lot better than ME1's version by far). With some refinement and alteration I can see it being a perfectly acceptable 'minigame' in ME3, although I suppose all we can do is wait and see where they went with it.

My biggest complaint over resource management in ME2 remains that it was far too easy. It wasn't even too time consuming. This would be an issue when considering the upgrades you can get through resource gathering, but it becomes a much bigger issue when you take into account it's affect on the Suicide Mission. Really those ship upgrades should have been harder to get or something. I usually end up having to pick which upgrade I don't get just to have someone die and make it a bit more epic. :|

[AlanC9]

didymos1120 wrote...
And yeah: fuel was just pointless. I really didn't like the whole manual flight version of the Galaxy Map much at all.  It never made me go "Ooooh, I'm in SPACE!"  I just felt like I was moving some little toy around.  I much prefer the "You're using an advanced navigation interface" approach.

But OTOH the ME2 map is better at actually giving the ship a position. Look at a planet in the same system in ME1 and the Normandy instantaneously teleports there. You don't give Joker or Pressly an order to go there -- you're just there.

And all kinds of stuff sometimes happens on the ME map interface -- boarding probes, etc.How come the folks who complain about the lack of immersion from the ME2 mission complete screens never whined about the ME1 map doing the same damn thing?

[Phaedon]

Javier, I was planning on posting a big thread about how ME3 should handle genre conflicts between the RPG and shooter genre, should I go on with it or post here instead?

Anyway, I fancy the idea of this becoming a megathread of sorts. Would clean up the forums, really.

Modifié par Phaedon, 07 mai 2011 - 09:49 .