402 réponses à ce sujet

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

That one's easy. Either you

1: Give everyone the skill, or

2: Force the party to include someone with the skill, or

3: Make sure that security systems never actually protect anything important.

I suppose there's a fourth option -- letting players simply fail missions, but that one ain't happening.

Just wanted to say that this was a really good post,  and I'm in agreement with your conclusions here.  RPGs were designed such that the overall party would provide a balance of skills,  RPGs that overly focus on one specific character generally tend to suffer this problem horribly,  which both the ME and DA series suffer from.  IMO it's a key thing for game developers to remember when designing an RPG,  the systems are intended to elicit cooperation amongst a number of people,  not be a one-man show with a throw-away supporting cast.

javierabegazo wrote...
Playing Mass Effect 1 and looking down my sniper rifle scope with it bouncing all over the place isn't fun. The thing we need to focus on in discussion is what classic RPG elements are fun to have in a game where most of the combat revolves around gunplay?

And in a situation where Shepard should start the game with the best technology the Alliance and/or Cerberus can get their hands on. (Yes, I'm still crusading against having shops in ME.)

But here I strongly disagree with you. 

The assumption here is that the Alliance and/or Cerberus woud have all of the best technology,  it's highly improbable.

The American military is very advanced,  perhaps the most advanced in the world.  Yet for a very long time,  and possibly today,  the foreign made AK-47 was a far superior rifle.  The Israeli military possesses anti-RPG technology America cannot match,  for a very long time Russian Nuclear Subs were superior in many facets,  as were the MIGs.  The Canadian military,  with a comparitively low budget is regarded as the best trained military in the world.

It requires too much of the player to create an entire universe and then make Humanity the best equipped even when Turians and the Blue people clearly exceed Humanity in terms of technological progression.  It starts becoming a massive plot hole,  rather than being a reasonably realistic universe it's a story about Human dominance over everything they encounter,  with everyone else as second-class citizens. 

The entire game is best served by a more probable scenario where Humanity does not possess the best of everything,  and that the other races exceed Humanity in some ways.

[javierabegazo]

Heavily agree as well Gatt9, I feel country super powers and having the best Tech does always if at all go hand in hand. Glad you mentioned Canada's military too

[bald man in a boat]

AlanC9 wrote...

How come the folks who complain about the lack of immersion from the ME2 mission complete screens never whined about the ME1 map doing the same damn thing?

Maybe because they were too immersed in carrying around 52 assault rifles, 9 pistols, 11 shotguns, 23 sniper rifles, 999 units of omni gel, 30 sets of light armour, 27 sets of medium armour, 8 sets of heavy armour, 4 Frictionless Materials III, 19 Combat Exoskeleton IX....

It's been said before, but the original concept of the galaxy map from 2006(?) is pretty awesome. 

[bald man in a boat]

Regarding Gat's post,

I agree that is unlikely that humanity would have the best of everything. I could see how Cerberus would have some pretty cutting edge things though. Since they're focused on human supremacy, it's plausible that they've been punking alien tech for a longtime and improving for human consumption.

[Phaedon]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Regarding Gat's post,

I agree that is unlikely that humanity would have the best of everything. I could see how Cerberus would have some pretty cutting edge things though. Since they're focused on human supremacy, it's plausible that they've been punking alien tech for a longtime and improving for human consumption.

You see many special forces using foreign-made weapons, but not AK47s etc.

Why? I guess that it's not shiny enough.

We already know what kind of weapons Cerberus uses. Although the Alliance has advanced, they are still using the Gorgon AR, the Harpy Pistol and an SR that I can't remember the name of.

[Da Mecca]

AlanC9 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
And yeah: fuel was just pointless. I really didn't like the whole manual flight version of the Galaxy Map much at all.  It never made me go "Ooooh, I'm in SPACE!"  I just felt like I was moving some little toy around.  I much prefer the "You're using an advanced navigation interface" approach.

But OTOH the ME2 map is better at actually giving the ship a position. Look at a planet in the same system in ME1 and the Normandy instantaneously teleports there. You don't give Joker or Pressly an order to go there -- you're just there.

And all kinds of stuff sometimes happens on the ME map interface -- boarding probes, etc.How come the folks who complain about the lack of immersion from the ME2 mission complete screens never whined about the ME1 map doing the same damn thing?

Looking at a screen and looking at the universe are two different things.

Also, what are you talking about?

[Nashiktal]

Actually ME1 had some pretty cool things happen on the ME1 map. Marines boarding derelict vessels, your tech geeks in the basement unraveling the secrets of anomalous relics you find, Joker pulling off incredible maneuvers to get to strange signals, etc.

Of course that was all text based.

[tonnactus]

didymos1120 wrote...

mangiraffedog3 wrote...

He was probably refering to the quote by Ray Muzyka where he says ME2 has "great customization".

Yeah, I know they said stuff like that.  It just bugs the hell out of me on principle when people say "X said Y" and don't have the courtesy to cite.  I shouldn't have to do your googling, you know?

For someone who is quite frequently on the forums,he(or she) should just remember it,but ok:

"In Mass Effect 2 we focused on what we love about RPGs: An awesome
sense of exploration,intense combat, a deep(???) and non-linear story
that'saffected by your actions, and rich customisation of your armour,
weapons and appearance...
http://www.computera...e.php?id=258534


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.


Childish,but i cant think of a better comment for this sentence in the magazine.
Seems that a lot of people already forget  that.
There was even a thread about this:

http://social.biowar...index/3342050/1

Modifié par tonnactus, 07 mai 2011 - 10:46 .

[didymos1120]

tonnactus wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Yeah, I know they said stuff like that.  It just bugs the hell out of me on principle when people say "X said Y" and don't have the courtesy to cite.  I shouldn't have to do your googling, you know?

For someone who is quite frequently one the forums,he(or she) should just remember it,but ok:
*snip*

Well, as I said: I do remember it (see bolded text).  But not everyone will. Especially not those aren't frequently on the forums.

[Adhin]

They don't use AK's because that gun has only 1 major thing going for it, reliability under bad conditions (like you not keeping it clean). M16, for instance outperforms in accuracy and is quicker to reload. A lot quicker, actually, a lot of attention was placed on that system to ensure everything could be done extremely quickly.

That and AK is the most widely used gun in a general sense cause its cheap, and nearly everyplace has manufacture who has the writes to make version of it.

That all said, in relation to ME universe in comparison to are own, Spectres are like special forces sure. Pretty much any military branch you get your service rifle and pistol, all that stuff, but you can also buy your own stuff. You see that more in more advanced stuff, theres the stuff they provide, and then theres stuff the carrier driven will end up buying for them selves.

Spectres i figure kinda work off that idea, only people who become Spectres are already military. They already have basic equipment of a set of stuff there used to using. And its been stated the council doesn't directly fund them with equipment, though I'd personally like to see less money grabbing and more getting 'payed'.

That's something I liked about ME2 actually, everything you did kinda got 'matched' by Cerberus. Something I feel that was missing in ME1, you...never got payed. Not once. You basically played a scavenger who was saving the galaxy.

If I had it my way you wouldn't be buying stuff from shops directly but getting contacts for your computer on the ship, where you order guns/mods and the like which get auto-added to your ship next time you dock in any major hub world. That's with the same kinda enter/exit method as ME1, though more so as I'd have you walk OUT of the ship instead of getting the team screen at the galaxy map on selecting the Citadel.

Anyways, outside of the lack of an obvious paycheck or bonus pay for certain things, buying your own stuff is pretty realistic overall. Though there's always the 'experimental tech' kinda stuff which gets tested in field by special ops and the like. That could be interesting late game stuff, though I'd imagine that would make most sense as heavy weapons or weapon mods.

Either way I've liked everything I've heard so far on ME3, especially the weapon mod system with direct, visual changes on the guns. That's just damn sexy.

[didymos1120]

Adhin wrote...

That's something I liked about ME2 actually, everything you did kinda got 'matched' by Cerberus. Something I feel that was missing in ME1, you...never got payed. Not once. You basically played a scavenger who was saving the galaxy.

Well, in theory, the mineral surveying was actually a bounty from the Alliance Geological Survey, but you'd only know that if you read the Codex entry.

[Kabanya101]

ME3 needs to be an RPG, because ME1 was an RPG, RPG's are better than plain old third person shooter, and because the game foremat for ME1 was better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't as good because it lacked the RPG elements that made the first one GREAT. Gameplay, graphics, presentation were all better, but individual personality to the main character was flawed in ME2.

[Kabanya101]

ME3 needs to be an RPG, because ME1 was an RPG, RPG's are better than plain old third person shooter, and because the game foremat for ME1 was better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't as good because it lacked the RPG elements that made the first one GREAT. Gameplay, graphics, presentation were all better, but individual personality to the main character was flawed in ME2.

Modifié par Kabanya101, 07 mai 2011 - 11:35 .

[Epic777]

Kabanya101 wrote...

ME3 needs to be an RPG, because ME1 was an RPG, RPG's are better than plain old third person shooter, and because the game foremat for ME1 was better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't as good because it lacked the RPG elements that made the first one GREAT. Gameplay, graphics, presentation were all better, but individual personality to the main character was flawed in ME2.

~Sigh~ I could have sworn ME series including ME1 was an RPG-Shooter not just an RPG

Still not sure if serious...

Modifié par Epic777, 07 mai 2011 - 11:43 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Phaedon wrote...

In the other thread:

Person 1: ...no meaningless non-combat stats...
Person 2: OMG they are gonna dumb it down
Person 3: But removing meaningless stuff is a good thing...
Person 2: But he said non-combat stats!
Person 3: But ME1 didn't have any non-combat stats, other than the intimidation/ persuasion one.
Person 2: *Rage*

Not entirely true. The tech skills were needed to open harder locks and repair the Mako faster, but that's about it. I know, they were primarily combat stats and that really wasn't worth mention, but meh.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 07 mai 2011 - 11:51 .

[Da Mecca]

The fact is the skills did serve a purpose outside of combat in addition to their role in combat in ME1.

The rest is just semantics.

[didymos1120]

Da Mecca wrote...

The fact is the skills did serve a purpose outside of combat in addition to their role in combat in ME1.

The rest is just semantics.

Yeah, but the important part is, those non-combat uses were extremely limited and:

a. almost all about getting you either more loot or assignments (which were themselves mostly comprised of more loot and more combat).

b. Not even necessary for acquiring said assignments. 

And all the loot was combat gear, creds (for buying more combat gear), omni-gel (mostly good for opening other loot containers faster and occasionally for repairing damage the Mako received during combat), medi-gel (for healing in combat or just after it), and grenades (you know: for combat).  And of course, getting XP which meant more levels which meant more points to spend on skills, most of the benefits of which were for....combat, or directly related to it (e.g. medi-gel heals more damage, which is of course received during combat).

Modifié par didymos1120, 08 mai 2011 - 12:14 .

[Da Mecca]

Yes but as you can see, people were hoping they would build upon the skills use outside of combat more.

That's really all there is to it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Da Mecca wrote...

Yes but as you can see, people were hoping they would build upon the skills use outside of combat more.

That's really all there is to it.

Christina doesn't really do much outside of combat, so it'd kinda be like asking Patrick Weekes (one of the dialogue writers) how they're rebalancing biotic powers.

[Da Mecca]

Well I have nothing to do with the whole "Christina=hell spawn" attitude of some people, I'm just saying why some people were disappointed.

[Walker White]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Not entirely true. The tech skills were needed to open harder locks and repair the Mako faster, but that's about it. I know, they were primarily combat stats and that really wasn't worth mention, but meh.

Tech skills served as a lower bound on three different categories of locks, but had zero effect otherwise.  Lock picking was really done by the minigame.  That is pretty shallow gameplay.  Honestly, if that is all there is, I am not even sure why I should care.  Why not just do the straight minigames as in ME2?

[didymos1120]

Da Mecca wrote...

Yes but as you can see, people were hoping they would build upon the skills use outside of combat more.

That's really all there is to it.

What I'm not seeing is why they even expected this based on ME1.  It was quite obviously never intended to follow anything but the "combat and conversations" model.  Even the exploration elements were largely about getting you to either the next fight or the next conversation.  And the other stuff you found during exploration was either loot or an instant deposit to your credits, barring a couple tiny things like that one skull you can find that doesn't do anything.

Modifié par didymos1120, 08 mai 2011 - 12:31 .

[Da Mecca]

didymos1120 wrote...

Da Mecca wrote...

Yes but as you can see, people were hoping they would build upon the skills use outside of combat more.

That's really all there is to it.

What I'm not seeing is why they even expected this based on ME1.  It was quite obviously never intended to follow anything but the "combat and conversations" model.  Even the exploration elements were largely about getting you to either the next fight or the next conversation.  And the other stuff you found during exploration was either loot or an instant deposit to your credits, barring a couple tiny things like that one skull you can find that doesn't do anything.

Like I said, people wanted to see additions and improvements to those elements.

It doesn't matter what it was originally.

Now whether that was a realistic thing to expects is up to you.

[Icinix]

Now I'd love to see more stats for non-combat scenarios (Charm / Intimiade for non paragon / renegade choices- Tech skills for hacking ATM's and locked doors etc)

But I'd REALLY love to see more combat stats that change small things in a non-activated ability way.
Such as faster weapon switches, if they still have the ammo system - faster reloads, slightly tighter accuracy (nothing to major, just a decrease in the spray field) etc, physical upgrades so you move a bit faster, sprint a bit longer, greater stealth ability to work through missions without firing a shot if you can.

One of the big things with BioWare games is tweaking my character for the combat I like. I get that in ME most of your time is shooting things - but having those little upgrades so I pass on upgrading my Biotic wave, but move slightly quieter and can physically take a few more hits than the next persons character really helps me play the game I want.

The problem with ME2 (albeit small) was that everyone's character would have to play the same in essence. There wasn't a lot of variation, you may as well have had no selectable combat abilities since everyones would pretty much end up the same. Instead of taking AIM at it being a fantastic shooter ONLY, what John Riccitiello said should be absolutely what they aim for. Shooter meets RPG. Have it where its a fantastic in depth shooter, but every player is playing it tweaked slightly different to their natural ability.

I want my character to not just look different to everyone elses, but I want them to shoot, move, stealth, whatever different to every other player.

[didymos1120]

Da Mecca wrote...

It doesn't matter what it was originally.

Well, it does, because a lot of people like to make out like there was all this RPG stuff we were doing that wasn't fundamentally about either killing things or talking to them. And there really wasn't. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 08 mai 2011 - 12:43 .