402 réponses à ce sujet

[Waage25]

Hehe Bioware is in full Damage control mode.

They did the same thing for DA2 and we all know what a bad game that was.

[Phaedon]

Waage25 wrote...

Hehe Bioware is in full Damage control mode.

They did the same thing for DA2 and we all know what a bad game that was.

Except that in this case, the community has proved to be facing several mental disorders.



BW: RPG elements will be enrichened, but not in the ME1 style. Also, weapon customization!

Community: Yay!

BW: No meaningless non-combat stats for ME3!

Community: whoa wtf bw omg dumb down much

BW: Umm. you want meaningless  stats?

C: Umm, yes. RPGs are not about rping L O L. We want complex stats that have no effect at all.

BW: What.

C: Also, you said non-combat! omfg

BW: Err, but neither of the games have real non-combat stats.

C: Omg damage contr0l much, boiware?

BW: What did I do to deserve this community...

Modifié par Phaedon, 08 mai 2011 - 01:45 .

[Phaedon]

Terror_K wrote...

Again, why does the only alternative to ME2's way of doing things seem to be ME1's way of doing things in some peoples' eyes? Isn't there the possibility of a third way that is neither of them?

Fortunately, for our sanity, Bioware has said, that they won't go in a ME1 stat spree.

[dreman9999]

SilentNukee wrote...

Good to know. I had no idea the lead designer was female...That is awesome.

You never saw the ME2 class trailer videos?

[Da Mecca]

Phaedon wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Again, why does the only alternative to ME2's way of doing things seem to be ME1's way of doing things in some peoples' eyes? Isn't there the possibility of a third way that is neither of them?

Fortunately, for our sanity, Bioware has said, that they won't go in a ME1 stat spree.

The thing that was wrong with the ME1 stats was the fact that the effect of rasing them a rank at a time became questioning.

"Is this really doing something? I can't tell."

ME2 sought to deal with this by making the ability increases the only thing you level up. The problem was the abilities no longer had a function outside of combat that supplemented there function in combat, making the abilities feel really shallow in asense, especially sense a biotic Shepard never uses biotics in a cutscene nor will you see an Infiltrator cloaking outside of combat. This is especially glaring considering your squadmates do this all the time.

[Franzius]

Ah Ah ah ah...

Cristina "The Cutter" Norman...
She is the one that in my eyes has practically destroyed ME franchise...

Who knows what she will do to the poor ME3...

My feeling for ME3 are getting worse and worse:
-) GI special (focused only on action, new enemy, no vehicle, more linear, more power ups etc...)
-) GI special 2.2 for BiowEA RPG now means light weapons customisation (a la Crysis 2!!!)
-) Riccitiello MASS MARKET APPEAL (more than ME2?!?!!?)
-) The Cutter (rpgish, consideration over the dialogue sections, consideration about the stats...)
-) The delay... for MULTIPLAYER?!?!?!

ME2 was a huge HUGE disappointment to me.
ME3 in the best scenario will be only more of the same bland corridor TPS

[Nohvarr]

[quote]Franzius wrote...

-) GI special (focused only on action, new enemy, no vehicle, more linear, more power ups etc...), and th
[/quote[

They also talked about branching powers, that your abilities combine and that Biotics was capable of doing more than every before.

[quote]-) GI special 2.2 for BiowEA RPG now means light weapons customisation (a la Crysis 2!!!)[/quote]

 They talked about 5 seperate spaces for weapons mods that alter the look and performance of the weapon.

[quote]-) Riccitiello MASS MARKET APPEAL (more than ME2?!?!!?)[/quote]

Market Speaks that means absolutly nothing

[quote]-) The Cutter (rpgish, consideration over the dialogue sections, consideration about the stats...)[/quote]

Of course since you've villified Lady Norman you can just assume the worst about anything she's said, even when she's explained thaty they're adding in more rpg features.

[quote]-) The delay... for MULTIPLAYER?!?!?![/quote]

Wild speculation. In the past bioware has admitted that adding in multiplayer would have to be done early in the games development and not just tacked on at the end.

[Nathan Redgrave]

A whole lot of CAPSLOCK AND EXCLAMATION MARKS?!?!?!??! just makes your post read like a psychopath's. Just sayin'.

Also, no company delays a game for a few months for something as involved as multiplayer. It's not something that can be so swiftly tacked-on--it needs to be built from the ground up right from a concept level, requiring enough time to get right, test, etc. that it would have to be intended and implemented from a very early stage in development. So no, the delay is not for multiplayer, and you'd have to lack even the vaguest sense of how game design works to believe it would be.

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...

BW: RPG elements will be enrichened, but not in the ME1 style. Also, weapon customization!

Community: Yay!

BW: No meaningless non-combat stats for ME3!

Community: whoa wtf bw omg dumb down much

BW: Umm. you want meaningless  stats?

C: Umm, yes. RPGs are not about rping L O L. We want complex stats that have no effect at all.

BW: What.

C: Also, you said non-combat! omfg

BW: Err, but neither of the games have real non-combat stats.

C: Omg damage contr0l much, boiware?

BW: What did I do to deserve this community...

I think the disconnect was what was meant by "meaningless non combat stats"

Was it: "we're trying to add meaning to stats which seemed useless in combat.  Part of that is removing miniscule increases and replace them with bonuses the player can actually feel"?

or

Was it: "Stats that aren't directly related to combat are meaningless, so we're cutting them.  All you want to do is shoot aliens, right?"

Okay a bit of an exageration there, but given the much heavier emphasis on shooting things the last game, it's an understandable concern.  I'm glad it got clarified.

[Ahglock]

AlanC9 wrote...




2: Force the party to include someone with the skill, or

I never understood why that was a bad idea.  I mean sure, maybe not to the mission over level of need.  But in squad based games aren't you supposed to be looking at your squads abilities and picking the right squad member for the job.  When playing as an adept there is a good chance you will take a defense stripper with you.  It will make your life a lot easier.  Why is also thinking about non-combat roles when picking squad members such a bad thing when it is accepted that you do so for combat roles.  Woudln't this just add a deeper level of gameply where you have mutliple decisions to make when picking your squad?

[Ahglock]

iakus wrote...


I think the disconnect was what was meant by "meaningless non combat stats"

Was it: "we're trying to add meaning to stats which seemed useless in combat.  Part of that is removing miniscule increases and replace them with bonuses the player can actually feel"?

or

Was it: "Stats that aren't directly related to combat are meaningless, so we're cutting them.  All you want to do is shoot aliens, right?"

Okay a bit of an exageration there, but given the much heavier emphasis on shooting things the last game, it's an understandable concern.  I'm glad it got clarified.

I really don't understand how this particular quote set people off.  But I can see how the general concern is there from ME2 and DA2.  

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...

Again, why does the only alternative to ME2's way of doing things seem to be ME1's way of doing things in some peoples' eyes? Isn't there the possibility of a third way that is neither of them?

Sure, there are other ways. Bio could have gone even farther than ME2 did and cut out shops and resource gathering, since Cerberus should be able to provide cash and minerals without Shepard bothering with it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 mai 2011 - 05:00 .

[Someone With Mass]

Phaedon wrote...
Except that in this case, the community has proved to be facing several mental disorders.



BW: RPG elements will be enrichened, but not in the ME1 style. Also, weapon customization!

Community: Yay!

BW: No meaningless non-combat stats for ME3!

Community: whoa wtf bw omg dumb down much

BW: Umm. you want meaningless  stats?

C: Umm, yes. RPGs are not about rping L O L. We want complex stats that have no effect at all.

BW: What.

C: Also, you said non-combat! omfg

BW: Err, but neither of the games have real non-combat stats.

C: Omg damage contr0l much, boiware?

BW: What did I do to deserve this community...

LOL, that is so true.

[InvaderErl]

It was like the Earth thing.

People had been clamoring (and in some cases ****ing) since ME1 for the series to get to Earth and when it did people started freaking out.

It was when I realized that portions of the fanbase had essentially devolved into a Trek fanbase.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 08 mai 2011 - 04:56 .

[TheConfidenceMan]

Ahglock wrote...

I really don't understand how this particular quote set people off.  But I can see how the general concern is there from ME2 and DA2.  

That particular quote strikes a nerve because Bioware's idea of "meaningless" is incredibly broad and can apply to anything that doesn't serve to make the game a more accessible shooter.

[Ahglock]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I really don't understand how this particular quote set people off.  But I can see how the general concern is there from ME2 and DA2.  

That particular quote strikes a nerve because Bioware's idea of "meaningless" is incredibly broad and can apply to anything that doesn't serve to make the game a more accessible shooter.

But they speciifed in the original qupte that they were talking about combat stats.  So how this spawned into a non-combat stat discussion is beyond me.  Like I said I can accept the discussion on general principles due to ME2's and DA2s game design, but this quote not so much.  

[Phaedon]

Franzius wrote...

Ah Ah ah ah...

Cristina "The Cutter" Norman...
She is the one that in my eyes has practically destroyed ME franchise...

Who knows what she will do to the poor ME3...

My feeling for ME3 are getting worse and worse:
-) GI special (focused only on action, new enemy, no vehicle, more linear, more power ups etc...)
-) GI special 2.2 for BiowEA RPG now means light weapons customisation (a la Crysis 2!!!)
-) Riccitiello MASS MARKET APPEAL (more than ME2?!?!!?)
-) The Cutter (rpgish, consideration over the dialogue sections, consideration about the stats...)
-) The delay... for MULTIPLAYER?!?!?!

ME2 was a huge HUGE disappointment to me.
ME3 in the best scenario will be only more of the same bland corridor TPS

Yeah, well the "-)" thing is pretty much your trademark.

You made a thread verbally insulting Christina Norman which of course got deleted. 

Yes, I have a good memory for some things. Try not refering to specific persons in your insults, you are crossing a very fine line.

Modifié par Phaedon, 08 mai 2011 - 05:27 .

[Obro]

I think that the main problem with recent BioWare games is that....stats only count for combat. And nothing else. What happened to stats that determine how much weight can you carry or how good are you at hacking or lock picking or your willpower and stuff like that?

I mean...you just put one thing like...what was it...ah yeah coercion and call it a day. 1 stat to rule everything speech related. So with that one thing I am a good lier,sweet talker,intimidator,philosopher and everything else. That stupid. Stupid and lazy.

I'll just use DA2 as example to be as simple as possible.

STR it increases melee dmg and ....that is pretty much it. That and stat requirements for weapons. And also intimidation and that is kinda stupid and used just so people who don't like spending points into actual conversation related skills can still basically have the conversation options.

Why not also add carry weigh and say increased stamina for actions? Or strength related stuff like idk bashing crated or doors?

AGI again just combat related stuff. Nothing related to for example rogue skills.

WILLPOWER ...oh boy this one is the best. It improves mana pool. When I rolled a warrior in DA2 and did that quest with blood mage prostitute....I broke out of her mind controlling spell with whooping 10 willpower. How? Why? What's the point of stats if I can resist a mind controlling spell with 10(that's I think the minimal amount you can have)?

MAGIC again just combat nothing non combat related. No..better understanding of magic related lore no bigger insight in magical plot related items no nothing.


I mean you get what I want to say. Bunch of potential wasted because....god knows why. No valid reason. Barely any role playing left in your games and the way things are going even the roll playing is going to go away.

[Murmillos]

Here is a humble suggestion related to an "old school" RPG point allocation system; you know, your intelligence, dexterity, charm & charisma.

System would be based off a scale of; Average (Base level), Skilled (+20%), Talented (+35%) and Exceptional (+50%). I use Average as a starting point figuring the nature just whom Shepard is; Shepard has decent training and has just spent the last couple of years kicking ass - but its up the the player on just what his or her particular strengths are.

Everything would start off Average and at the start of the game and at various leveling mile-markers, you would be able to increase stats some more.

Strength - Converns how hard Shepard hits with his rifle but and melee hits. Great for those who will be expecting a lot of close quarter combat. Average you can easily knock another human to the ground, but at Exceptional; even the Krogan think twice.

Dexterity - Effects Storm Speed and weapon swap/reload times. Those on the front line of the battle field with Exceptional Dexerity can practically field strip a rifle and reassemble it by the time the enemy has even reloaded.

Constitution - Controls how Shepard reacts to incoming fire and special effects. Even the average Shepard stumbles when hit with a concussion round. Exceptional Shepards don't even let fire or ice affects slow them down.

Intelligence - The cumulative training of Shepard falls under this category. Average Shepard's still have to think a little bit when using his Omni-tool when it comes to hacking and bypassing security protocols even with Alliance/Cerberus provided hacking tools, but by Exceptional even the strongest security suite is as simple as punching thru wet paper; if the 22nd century used paper that is.

Wisdom - The quicker you learn, the longer you live. By this code of understanding, Shepard knows how to make it hurt and his shots count. Exceptional Shepard's can exploit armor weaknesses and can cause crippling and even critical hits more often Shepard has even learned in how to get Tech and Biotic attacks to cause damage or apply their intended affect even behind standard protection.

Charisma - While doesn't directly affect Shepard's Paragon or Renegade standing, Exceptional Shepard's can typically get somebody talking more then they should be. This could come as extra credits, better discounts, more avenues of information which could help your cause or exploit your enemies. If Information is Power; Exceptional rules the Galaxy.

-------------------------------------

Also, this follows a Secondary Skill - called Weapons, Biotics, Tech and Personality. Again, follows the Average, Skilled, Talented and Exceptional rule set.
Weapons - Affects how powerful and how often special ammo powers work.
Biotics - Affects how powerful their Biotics attacks are and how quickly they recharge.
Tech - Affects how powerful their Tech attacks are and how quickly the recharge.
Personality - Directly affects the Paragon and Renegade bonus.

Modifié par Murmillos, 08 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[Da Mecca]

Murmillos wrote...

Here is a humble suggestion related to an "old school" RPG point allocation system; you know, your intelligence, dexterity, charm & charisma.

System would be based off a scale of; Average (Base level), Skilled (+20%), Talented (+35%) and Exceptional (+50%). I use Average as a starting point figuring the nature just whom Shepard is; Shepard has decent training and has just spent the last couple of years kicking ass - but its up the the player on just what his or her particular strengths are.

Everything would start off Average and at the start of the game and at various leveling mile-markers, you would be able to increase stats some more.

Strength - Converns how hard Shepard hits with his rifle but and melee hits. Great for those who will be expecting a lot of close quarter combat. Average you can easily knock another human to the ground, but at Exceptional; even the Krogan think twice.

Dexterity - Effects Storm Speed and weapon swap/reload times. Those on the front line of the battle field with Exceptional Dexerity can practically field strip a rifle and reassemble it by the time the enemy has even reloaded.

Constitution - Controls how Shepard reacts to incoming fire and special effects. Even the average Shepard stumbles when hit with a concussion round. Exceptional Shepards don't even let fire or ice affects slow them down.

Intelligence - The cumulative training of Shepard falls under this category. Average Shepard's still have to think a little bit when using his Omni-tool when it comes to hacking and bypassing security protocols even with Alliance/Cerberus provided hacking tools, but by Exceptional even the strongest security suite is as simple as punching thru wet paper; if the 22nd century used paper that is.

Wisdom - The quicker you learn, the longer you live. By this code of understanding, Shepard knows how to make it hurt and his shots count. Exceptional Shepard's can exploit armor weaknesses and can cause crippling and even critical hits more often.

Charisma - While doesn't directly affect Shepard's Paragon or Renegade standing, Exceptional Shepard's can typically get somebody talking more then they should be. This could come as extra credits, better discounts, more avenues of information which could help your cause or exploit your enemies. If Information is Power; Exceptional rules the Galaxy.

-------------------------------------

Also, this follows a Secondary Skill - called Weapons, Biotics, Tech and Personality. Again, follows the Average, Skilled, Talented and Exceptional rule set.
Weapons - Affects how powerful and how often special ammo powers work.
Biotics - Affects how powerful their Biotics attacks are and how quickly they recharge.
Tech - Affects how powerful their Tech attacks are and how quickly the recharge.
Personality - Directly affects the Paragon and Renegade bonus.

I would have loved that.

But we are way too far in to change that now.

[Dexi]

Murmillos wrote...

Here is a humble suggestion related to an "old school" RPG point allocation system; you know, your intelligence, dexterity, charm & charisma.

System would be based off a scale of; Average (Base level), Skilled (+20%), Talented (+35%) and Exceptional (+50%). I use Average as a starting point figuring the nature just whom Shepard is; Shepard has decent training and has just spent the last couple of years kicking ass - but its up the the player on just what his or her particular strengths are.

Everything would start off Average and at the start of the game and at various leveling mile-markers, you would be able to increase stats some more.

Strength - Converns how hard Shepard hits with his rifle but and melee hits. Great for those who will be expecting a lot of close quarter combat. Average you can easily knock another human to the ground, but at Exceptional; even the Krogan think twice.

Dexterity - Effects Storm Speed and weapon swap/reload times. Those on the front line of the battle field with Exceptional Dexerity can practically field strip a rifle and reassemble it by the time the enemy has even reloaded.

Constitution - Controls how Shepard reacts to incoming fire and special effects. Even the average Shepard stumbles when hit with a concussion round. Exceptional Shepards don't even let fire or ice affects slow them down.

Intelligence - The cumulative training of Shepard falls under this category. Average Shepard's still have to think a little bit when using his Omni-tool when it comes to hacking and bypassing security protocols even with Alliance/Cerberus provided hacking tools, but by Exceptional even the strongest security suite is as simple as punching thru wet paper; if the 22nd century used paper that is.

Wisdom - The quicker you learn, the longer you live. By this code of understanding, Shepard knows how to make it hurt and his shots count. Exceptional Shepard's can exploit armor weaknesses and can cause crippling and even critical hits more often. Shepard has even learned in how to get Tech and Biotic attacks to cause damage or apply their indeed affect even behind standard protection.

Charisma - While doesn't directly affect Shepard's Paragon or Renegade standing, Exceptional Shepard's can typically get somebody talking more then they should be. This could come as extra credits, better discounts, more avenues of information which could help your cause or exploit your enemies. If Information is Power; Exceptional rules the Galaxy.

-------------------------------------

Also, this follows a Secondary Skill - called Weapons, Biotics, Tech and Personality. Again, follows the Average, Skilled, Talented and Exceptional rule set.
Weapons - Affects how powerful and how often special ammo powers work.
Biotics - Affects how powerful their Biotics attacks are and how quickly they recharge.
Tech - Affects how powerful their Tech attacks are and how quickly the recharge.
Personality - Directly affects the Paragon and Renegade bonus.

Would be ok, I guess... but we're not going to see anything like that in ME3... 

[Nathan Redgrave]

You've taken "Wisdom" and described "Cunning," there. In any event, Cunning is usually the stat that determines crit rates and other things involving how adept you are at exploiting weaknesses. (It could also factor into your ability to Charm.)

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 08 mai 2011 - 06:06 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Obro wrote...

I mean...you just put one thing like...what was it...ah yeah coercion and call it a day. 1 stat to rule everything speech related.

Ahem. "Coercion" was a skill. It took your Strength and Cunning stats into account for Intimidation and Persuasion, respectively. The vast majority of your persuasion checks WOULD rely on the 25-or-so points that each level of Coercion provided, but there were other stats involved.

[bald man in a boat]

Phaedon wrote...

BW: RPG elements will be enrichened, but not in the ME1 style. Also, weapon customization!

Community: Yay!

BW: No meaningless non-combat stats for ME3!

Community: whoa wtf bw omg dumb down much

BW: Umm. you want meaningless  stats?

C: Umm, yes. RPGs are not about rping L O L. We want complex stats that have no effect at all.

BW: What.

C: Also, you said non-combat! omfg

BW: Err, but neither of the games have real non-combat stats.

C: Omg damage contr0l much, boiware?

BW: What did I do to deserve this community...

This. People forget you're not supposed to go full retard.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Ahglock wrote...

I never understood why that was a bad idea.  I mean sure, maybe not to the mission over level of need.  But in squad based games aren't you supposed to be looking at your squads abilities and picking the right squad member for the job.

In the English language, aren't you supposed to end a question with a question mark.

Forcing you to take up one slot in your already limited party specifically for the purpose of being able to unlock item containers limits your options with regard to combat. Given that combat is the part that matters the most (it's the only part you have to worry about actually winning), anything that limits your ability to mix up your combat tactics is going to frustrate people. In ME2, at the very least I wouldn't have to worry about it; my decisions on who my squadmates were would be entirely focused on who most aptly complimented my own combat abilities at any given time.