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cullen

Débuté par Guest_wildrivr_* , mai 07 2011 11:36

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#26
Bekkael
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 04:27

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dragonflight288 wrote...
Right then, so what is everyone's opinion of when Cullen turns his back on Meredith to support the champion?


He's not mind****** by the red lighsaber of doom? :whistle:

Seriously, having also played as a female Amell in Origins, I feel his character is far more sympathetic. I didn't find him to just be a hater ranting in a cage, I found him to be a trauma victim struggling to cope. I'm imagining between DA:O and DA2 he got some good counseling, and had time to come to grips with what he experienced.

I would really love to see him come back as a companion. They spent time on his character, so I think we will see more of him in future (I hope), either as DLC or in DA3. :D

#27
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 07:15

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dragonflight288 wrote...

Very nice. Really liked those videos. If you take those two moments, it may seem like Cullen drove her away from his fear. But once he left Ferelden, looks like he regretted it.

Kind of liked the irony of his statement "They caged us like animals, looked for ways to break us!"

Umm...sounds like some sadistic templars and the mages to me.

Crap...double post.


yeah it does i'm suprise he even rembered the female mage from the circle.

i've never understood love on any level, maybe it was because she was the first real thing he saw after the circle was attacked. she maybe just made an impact on him because of that. i don't know, i thought after that he'd blame the whole thing on her leaving, i was actually expecting that.

i was shocked when he sided with me because i sided with the mages, i was sure he'd kill me. espeashily considering my abomintaion mage healer apostate was standing right behind me.

to me letting anders live is my apology for treating him like crap in awakening. also i kinda wonder if that was really anders that did that, it seemed as the game progressed he started to seem more like justice was in awakening, like anders was dieing inside his own body. and if you are nice to anders it seems like justice starts to accept you in a way like a friend would, or an ally. and seems to look out for you and in a way protect you.

i saw a video on youtube of justice lashing out at hawke in a cutscene, i never got that cutscene, i guess you have to ****** off anders to get it, i don't do that not without a heavy heart anyway. justice to me never seemed that bad, anders said he was corrupt and dangerous and would kill anyone that pissed him off, but he really seemed all that bad, he never hurt my character at least. i was actually hoping at some point i could have made justice kill characters i hated in a blinding rage, he seemed loyal enough.

i made anders into a pretty good tank in my game it seems like, when i turned on him in the fade it actually took a good while to beat him down, impressive for a mage.  course i do have an exp modiifier that give me 12 stat points to play around with, i think he has almost as much health as me and i'm the tank.

anyway back to cullen, i wish he was a an actual companion, he's a moded companion in my mage origin game. and he's not bad at tanking.

#28
dragonflight288
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 12:24

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I read the Codex entry. Gregoir sent Cullen away from Ferelden's circle because he was so unstable with the mages there. All he saw there was the faces of his friends who died and the potential blood mages and abominations roaming inside the Circle. In Kirkwall he didn't have the luxury of knowing anyone, so he didn't have anyone to blame for anyone's deaths. So he started out with a clean slate.

I'm guessing what he needed was time away from Ferelden to heal emotionally and mentally, which he does.

And I agree that Anders is a prisoner inside his own body. And I did really like him in Awakening. But think of this. Even if you let him live in Act 3, what will happen to him and Justice say in another year or two. Will he recover to the Anders we know or does Justice consume everything Anders is?

#29
happy_daiz
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 03:26

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dragonflight288 wrote...

I read the Codex entry. Gregoir sent Cullen away from Ferelden's circle because he was so unstable with the mages there. All he saw there was the faces of his friends who died and the potential blood mages and abominations roaming inside the Circle. In Kirkwall he didn't have the luxury of knowing anyone, so he didn't have anyone to blame for anyone's deaths. So he started out with a clean slate.

I'm guessing what he needed was time away from Ferelden to heal emotionally and mentally, which he does.

And I agree that Anders is a prisoner inside his own body. And I did really like him in Awakening. But think of this. Even if you let him live in Act 3, what will happen to him and Justice say in another year or two. Will he recover to the Anders we know or does Justice consume everything Anders is?


Ahhh, Cullen. Love that guy. <3

It's becoming apparent to me that I really miss the old Justice, as well as the old Anders. Justice seemed a lot more understanding in Awakening, and a lot less crazy on his own. And Anders' jokes just aren't as funny now.

I understand that Justice needed a new body, but couldn't they have picked a darkspawn or something?

#30
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 03:50

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dragonflight288 wrote...

I read the Codex entry. Gregoir sent Cullen away from Ferelden's circle because he was so unstable with the mages there. All he saw there was the faces of his friends who died and the potential blood mages and abominations roaming inside the Circle. In Kirkwall he didn't have the luxury of knowing anyone, so he didn't have anyone to blame for anyone's deaths. So he started out with a clean slate.

I'm guessing what he needed was time away from Ferelden to heal emotionally and mentally, which he does.

And I agree that Anders is a prisoner inside his own body. And I did really like him in Awakening. But think of this. Even if you let him live in Act 3, what will happen to him and Justice say in another year or two. Will he recover to the Anders we know or does Justice consume everything Anders is?


even still i won't kill anders, if there is even a 1% chance he can be helped i will take that risk.

#31
LobselVith8
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 10:20

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wildrivr wrote...

don't know what else to put as a title. i figured i'd best put this in the spoiler section to be safe.

personally i was not expecting to see him again, when i heard his name i was thinking that can't be dao cullen right.

i'm glad to see he has a spine now, he is a great example of how a bad experiance can change a personality completely. and it's nice that the change wasn't for the worst.


He doesn't seem all that different than he did at the end of Origins. Cullen says that mages shouldn't be treated like people and are weapons. I didn't see him as a sympathetic character, particularly when he arrested Bethany and put her life in danger by placing her in the Gallows with the likes of Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras. Cullen's response to Hawke about the "Tranquil Solution" that "there's an argument to be made for applying the use of tranquility more widely" didn't make him sympathetic to me.

wildrivr wrote...

but i expected him to go medevial on me in the end, and then make anders tranquil on the spot.

last he was in the game he had a servere hatred for mages, in general. but when you side with the mages he still takes your side dispite what he went through because of mages.


Cullen does nothing when Meredith orders the execution of countless men, women, and children, but he stops Meredith from killing a pro-mage Hawke who has been killing his way past templars left and right because... The Plot Dictates.

#32
Shacary
Posté 10 mai 2011 - 11:32

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OOO Lobselvith8, you just brought points to the table I had not consdered/remembered about Cullen, so mb he didnt really overcome that incident at the circle tower.. good catch and certainly food for thought!

#33
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:08

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LobselVith8 wrote...

wildrivr wrote...

don't know what else to put as a title. i figured i'd best put this in the spoiler section to be safe.

personally i was not expecting to see him again, when i heard his name i was thinking that can't be dao cullen right.

i'm glad to see he has a spine now, he is a great example of how a bad experiance can change a personality completely. and it's nice that the change wasn't for the worst.


He doesn't seem all that different than he did at the end of Origins. Cullen says that mages shouldn't be treated like people and are weapons. I didn't see him as a sympathetic character, particularly when he arrested Bethany and put her life in danger by placing her in the Gallows with the likes of Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras. Cullen's response to Hawke about the "Tranquil Solution" that "there's an argument to be made for applying the use of tranquility more widely" didn't make him sympathetic to me.

wildrivr wrote...

but i expected him to go medevial on me in the end, and then make anders tranquil on the spot.

last he was in the game he had a servere hatred for mages, in general. but when you side with the mages he still takes your side dispite what he went through because of mages.


Cullen does nothing when Meredith orders the execution of countless men, women, and children, but he stops Meredith from killing a pro-mage Hawke who has been killing his way past templars left and right because... The Plot Dictates.


i'm guessing you don't talk with him much, there are certain times when you can talk with him about and is willing to reason with the mages on.

most of the time he has something new to talk about after completing a major quest and a few minor ones. i know this cause i probably spend half of the game bsing with him in the gallows.

besides i don't get a bad vibe from him at any point, so that tells me he is not that bad off.

i swear i have nartual ability to tell who is a bad chacter and who isn't, even when i know nothing about the game in general.

in fallout 3 i came right out of vault 101 and killed the eyebot outside, it wasn't for xp it wasn't for loot. i got this erie feeling just looking at it. and i knew nothing about fallout besides what my bro knew and he started out fresh in the game as well. it wasn't untill several weeks later i learned of the enclave.

i didn't like wheately in portal 2 as soon as i saw him, he gave me a bad feeling, and i wasn't suprised when he turned on me. and the glados told me what he was, from that point on i was hellbent on helping glados.

i got the same feeling about vayne from ff12, something about him didn't sit right with me.

but i don't get that around anders or cullen so i trust them. and i'm usually right about these feelings.

#34
LobselVith8
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:55

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wildrivr wrote...

i'm guessing you don't talk with him much, there are certain times when you can talk with him about and is willing to reason with the mages on.


I did converse with Cullen as Hawke, which is how I came to the view of him that I posted. He says that mages shouldn't be treated as people and are weapons; this isn't someone I see as a good person, especially when he's unwilling to stop the Right of Annulment that is going to kill countless men, women, and children who aren't responsible for the actions of Anders, and is only willing to intervene to stop Mereidth from specifically killing the protagonist Hawke.

wildrivr wrote...

most of the time he has something new to talk about after completing a major quest and a few minor ones. i know this cause i probably spend half of the game bsing with him in the gallows.

besides i don't get a bad vibe from him at any point, so that tells me he is not that bad off.


Addressing that mages shouldn't be treated as people and are weapons doesn't give me a good vibe about the Knight-Captain. Speaking to Cullen about the "Tranquil Solution" is where Hawke can even address that Cullen sounds like he approves it because he says  "there's an argument to be made for applying the use of tranquility more widely." He sounds so relaxed when talking about ripping a person's humanity from them. He adds to this that "many mages have shown they view the ritual as no better then death; they want no controls on them at all" which tells me he doesn't see how monstrous the Rite of Tranquility is when it removes a person's humanity from them.

#35
Beerfish
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 04:02

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Cullen is no saint, before he was sure about the abomination templar recruit he was beating the hell out of the guy. He was fully prepared and happy to arrest the champion after Hawke saves their bacon by taking care of meredith. His words of "We were not going to kill the champion, only arrest him." ticked me off a lot. Also after he back away and bows at the end I didn't think he suddenly had a great change of heart about the champ, he just saw the champ and his crew butt smack meredith.

#36
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 05:56

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well he spared me at the end that's all i cared about, and he didn't kill anders, and he does give me bad vibes.

i actually like talking with him, unlike a few others that going to name. cullen is a logical thinker like myself he keeps a cool head under pressure.

a big improvement over origins, when you put emotions into anything, you end up getting screwed over, or screwing yourself over. look at where is compassion got him the first time. i see his new personality as a huge improvement, at least now he doesn't mind being rough to get what he wants.

everything you say about him that is bad i like.

#37
dragonflight288
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:42

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Umm....wildrivr....do you support the Right of Tranquility? I do think he grows as a person from Origins to DA2, but a lot of what they're saying does make sense.

Oh, by the way, when I sided with he Templars, he was going through with the annulment, but when those mages come in to surrender, he is more than willing to accept it when Meredith is ordering their deaths. Cullen argues that they don't have to kill every mage in the circle.

#38
LobselVith8
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 06:15

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Gaider has also stated that an alternative to killing mages in the Right of Annulment is to put them through the Rite of Tranquility, and Cullen seemed to support the Rite when Hawke discusses the "Tranquil Solution" with him. We know that the events of the Right of Annulment were bad enough to encourage every Circle of Magi to rise up and emancipate themselves from the Chantry and the Order of Templars. Had it not been that bad, I don't see the mages looking at it any differently than the Rite of Annulment that can happen at Ferelden, where moderate Knight-Commander Greagoir says he will speak on behalf of the mages to the Grand Cleric. This means the three mages who surrendered could likely be made tranquil rather than killed, which would explain why the mages across the continent react the way they do when several prior Rights of Annulment over the course of a thousand years never inspired such a reaction.

#39
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 06:49

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dragonflight288 wrote...

Umm....wildrivr....do you support the Right of Tranquility? I do think he grows as a person from Origins to DA2, but a lot of what they're saying does make sense.

Oh, by the way, when I sided with he Templars, he was going through with the annulment, but when those mages come in to surrender, he is more than willing to accept it when Meredith is ordering their deaths. Cullen argues that they don't have to kill every mage in the circle.


i'm not sure, i don't know what the right of tranquilty really does. i know it takes away your powers and emotions, but being that i rely on logic for everything, i really can't grasp what going through it would be like, i really don't knon what the fade does to people in the game so i'm not sure what being cut off from the fade would do.

the part i like about cullen is how he has developed as a warrior, like when he was beating on that templar, and he didn't really know the guy was possessed but he needed to get the info that he needed.

he toughened up alot, and became a better warrior because of it, i never sided with the templars cause that means killing anders, so i don't know what happens if you do.

but i don't understand alot of how the nt mind works, i don't know what making decsions based on how you feel is like, i choose logic over emotions 9 out of 10 decsions. so i see cullen in the more logical side.

#40
LobselVith8
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 07:05

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Marethari seems to consider the Rite of Tranquility akin to destroying a person's soul, and we know Karl begged to be killed rather than live out the rest of his days as a "templar puppet." I don't see it as a good process. I can't think of anything more monstrous than destroying a person's humanity and turning them into a thrall. We hear Alrik tell the child mage Ella that he's going to make her tranquil, and that she"ll do "anything" he commands her to do.

#41
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 07:32

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the way jowan described it as losing your emotions, which i support, if got to live the rest of my life without feeling a single emotion i could die peacefully. emotions have caused me nothing but pain since the day i was born.

he also said it takes your powers away, which i don't support, i mage with no powers has no purpose.

besides that's the emotional way of looking at it, i need to know what it does to the body and mind, is it like mind control, a mental illness. how can losing your emotions be that bad?

edit: sorry if i sound angry or like i'm trying to start a fight, i'm not. i just don't know how to write something that i'm confused about without sounding angry.

i just debate with passion.

my only experiance with my emotions is when i go through a meltdown, and those are never fun. for me i can go through a meltdown for no reason whatsoever, it's like since i can't express or feel emotions if at all, they just build up untill they can no longer be supressed and i end up taking the brunt of it.

being traquil would be a huge relief, for people like me emotions are a burden, but nts thrive off of emotions. so i'm guessing karl and that girl are nts, for them not feeling anything is a torment, for people like me not feeling anything would be peace.

Modifié par wildrivr, 11 mai 2011 - 09:57 .

#42
Wulfram
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 10:36

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wildrivr wrote...

he also said it takes your powers away, which i don't support, i mage with no powers has no purpose.


Tranquil are great at enchanting.  They're probably more useful than a normal mage since normal mages don't actually get much of an opportunity to use their powers.

#43
dragonflight288
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:35

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Hmm. Being tranquil would mean there wouldn't be any emotional breakdowns. That's true. But it also means you couldn't enjoy anything either. Do you find something fun? Well you wouldn't anymore. Is there anything you find humorous? You won't anymore. Ever want to fall in love with someone? You can't. You want to even have an opinion and feel strongly about it? It won't happen. You won't feel passionate about anything.

You will just....be. No emotions, no original thoughts as you will have to rely on other people to give you instructions on what to do. No dreams. No beliefs.

And, this is just a theory. If the maker actually does exist in the game, and a person is cut off from the fade. Well, the chantry teaches a person must travel through the fade after death to meet the maker. So if a person is completely cut off, what then?

#44
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:56

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not be able to fall in love, meaning i would never have to be tied down to someone having their life intertwined with everything i do and be able to control half my life.

and your saying that's a bad thing?

personally i would rather be robotic like, then i would never have to make another decsion in my life, i think i would like that.

the only emotions i would miss, are rage and anger. i can't think of any others.

as for mages, i'd much rather burn a darkspawn with a fireball then enchant any day. makes me wonder what sandel is if enchanting requires magic.

i don't know i like violence, like i find it awesome when enemies explode when you kill them, i like just watching the blood fly everywhere. i guess i would miss the adrenline rush when i kill things also.

#45
dragonflight288
Posté 13 mai 2011 - 02:08

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No you wouldn't. You wouldn't miss anything. You wouldn't like your parents. Your wouldn't hate them. You wouldn't hold grudges. You wouldn't cherish fond memories. All those rely on emotions, and there wouldn't be any.

#46
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 13 mai 2011 - 12:04

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dragonflight288 wrote...

No you wouldn't. You wouldn't miss anything. You wouldn't like your parents. Your wouldn't hate them. You wouldn't hold grudges. You wouldn't cherish fond memories. All those rely on emotions, and there wouldn't be any.


well if there is nothing to miss then that sounds good.

#47
dragonflight288
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 03:11

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Well it seems you made up your mind. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I respectfully disagree but I respect your decision.

Anyway, how about this. Do you agree with forcing the right of tranquility on people because they 'may' be dangerous? The tranquil solution was all about forcing tranquility on every mage, regardless of their personalities, experiences, wants, or desires. If you volunteer for it, that's one thing. But how do you feel about forcing it on someone who doesn't want it?

#48
Guest_wildrivr_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 04:40

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that i disagree with, that's just control. i don't like things that go against free will. if someone doesn't something don't force it on them.

those tranquil seem alot like one of my own characters, he has no free will either, he does have emotion, but he can't feel anything unless he is ordered to, but he was designed like that so he doesn't know the difference. it's funny how i came up with idea and now i'm getting to see what it would be like. i made him way before dragon age was thought of.

#49
Dave of Canada
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 06:17

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dragonflight288 wrote...

You will just....be. No emotions, no original thoughts as you will have to rely on other people to give you instructions on what to do.


Tranquil have free will and can do whatever they want. They can leave the Circle if they wanted to, live a normal life outside should they choose it for themselves. They are just very logical / calculating in their behavior instead of driven by emotion.

They aren't automatons that are driven foward by orders.

#50
dragonflight288
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 09:07

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Dave of Canada

Tranquil have free will and can do whatever they want. They can leave the Circle if they wanted to, live a normal life outside should they choose it for themselves. They are just very logical / calculating in their behavior instead of driven by emotion.

They aren't automatons that are driven foward by orders.


I have yet to see a tranquil in the game who isn't following orders. Owain in Origins wouldn't reveal what's done to make someone tranquil because he was instructed not too. The shopkeepers who are tranquil are the circle's main source of income. That means they need to be assigned there.

Karl was acting against Anders and tried to turn him in despite the fact that when he temporarily regained emotions he desperately wanted to die. And before he was made tranquil, he was planning on leaving.

That doesn't sound like free will to me. Sounds like he's being ordered around, and without the emotional connection to his previous decisions, he cannot resist.
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