382 réponses à ce sujet

[graavigala85]

 been said millions of times but lets say them again:

-re-used areas
-ninja enemies
-leaping story telling
-caps in story

still that hasnt made the game bad, just not as good as people hoped

[Elhanan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

P.s. With regard to backstab in DA2 I do not like it's method of relocating, it's simply teleporting which unless your a mage you shouldn't be able to do therefore it's immersion breaking for me.

As opposed to weilding 2H weaponry like baseball bats, slinging spells, etc? I do not mind it, as Warriors also rush to targets as swiftly. I imagine it as a martial defensive maneuver best described as, "quicker than the eye could follow, he was behind me".

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

P.s. With regard to backstab in DA2 I do not like it's method of relocating, it's simply teleporting which unless your a mage you shouldn't be able to do therefore it's immersion breaking for me.

As opposed to weilding 2H weaponry like baseball bats, slinging spells, etc? I do not mind it, as Warriors also rush to targets as swiftly. I imagine it as a martial defensive maneuver best described as, "quicker than the eye could follow, he was behind me".

A mage is supposed to sling spells thats what they do, a rogue shouldn't be able to cast spells such as teleport imho, it's not moving faster than eye can see because then why does he never move that fast at any other time if he has the ability to move that fast then makes no tactical logical sense would only use it in one move. A warrior is supposed to have strength and muscles there for it is easier for them to swing a heavy sword but the dash mode is again something I think is unrealistic. It seems to me the only way Bioware could get around closing in on mobs was to use magic and silly super powers. As far as I am concerned if a mob is firing arrows at you or spells, if you chose a melee class character then as DG said "Suck it up princess".

Equip a bow or if have a mage in party they can take down the ranged types not every single class having teleportation or super god like speed to make up for lack of tactical approach. This is one aspect they really did "dumb down", I have never had a problem dealing with ranged mobs in any game as such either use a ranged companion to take it down use a ranged weapon yourself or a simple concept go walk around a corner, the mob will come around after you therefore closing in on you instead which works. Simple tactics as opposed to super god like teleporting on all classes.

Hell even a mage casting some form of protection or damage reduction on you buying you enough time to charge at them like Braveheart would work, just not every class being able to teleport due to the developers lack of imagination in resolving the closing in issue.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 mai 2011 - 01:41 .

[Tommy6860]

Sabriana wrote...

Tommy, I see what you mean. But I mean it in an even more restrictive way. I mean the set-up, the writing of the quests. One quest had me rolling in the aisles, the idea was great. However, when executing it into the game, it was saddled with unnecessary... stuff. I can't get any clearer, due to spoilerage, sorry.

I know what you mean, without having to reveal spoilers. And yes, the writing was really good in many areas of the game. Aside from the "unnecessary stuff", it was also how the dialogue, though written well, was jarring when spoken and not what I wanted it to mean. You're almost convincing enough that I would want to give this game another shot, errrrr.

:innocent:

[MDT1]

I think the topic is invalid as there are no FACTS its always TASTE (except for bugs perhaps).
As example I could say using only 1 dungeon is a valued feature as it reduces the chances to get lost.
Thats the problem with all those discussions on this board, its taste.
The fanboys like the game and the haters, well they hate it, and you aren't going to change it just because you claim their arguments are invalid or not facts. I know you think it's worth arguing as you are positive about your point of view and want to defend it, but thats only logical because otherwise it would not be your opinion.

This game is bad for some people and for other its not, get over it and stop trying to missionize.
Its just so extreme with DA2 because they managed to get many people who wont like it into pre-ordering it (like me).

Modifié par MDT1, 09 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Elhanan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

A mage is supposed to sling spells thats what they do, a rogue shouldn't be able to cast spells such as teleport imho, it's not moving faster than eye can see because then why does he never move that fast at any other time if he has the ability to move that fast then makes no tactical logical sense would only use it in one move. A warrior is supposed to have strength and muscles there for it is easier for them to swing a heavy sword but the dash mode is again something I think is unrealistic. It seems to me the only way Bioware could get around closing in on mobs was to use magic and silly super powers. As far as I am concerned if a mob is firing arrows at you or spells, if you chose a melee class character then as DG said "Suck it up princess".

Equip a bow or if have a mage in party they can take down the ranged types not every single class having teleportation or super god like speed to make up for lack of tactical approach. This is one aspect they really did "dumb down", I have never had a problem dealing with ranged mobs in any game as such either use a ranged companion to take it down use a ranged weapon yourself or a simple concept go walk around a corner, the mob will come around after you therefore closing in on you instead which works. Simple tactics as opposed to super god like teleporting on all classes.

I have seen martial artists and those skilled in self-defense get behind opponents quickly; so quickly that even equally trained indv are not able to always stop it. Same can be said for those able to close rapidly on a target to turn ranged distances into a melee. Now while the graphics would be cool, it ain't needed for me, as I see it within the mind's eye.

For myself, this nit ain't worth picking.

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...

I have seen martial artists and those skilled in self-defense get behind opponents quickly; so quickly that even equally trained indv are not able to always stop it. Same can be said for those able to close rapidly on a target to turn ranged distances into a melee. Now while the graphics would be cool, it ain't needed for me, as I see it within the mind's eye.

For myself, this nit ain't worth picking.

I think every aspect is worth raking over the coals examining and improving, a game is a sum of it's parts and if those parts fall short the game quality and enjoyment drops.

[Aradace]

Elhanan wrote...


For myself, this nit ain't worth picking.

Agreed lol.  But there are some nerd-ragers out there that apparently think it is.  The whole arguement in general is pretty humorous to say the least.

[andraip]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

P.s. With regard to backstab in DA2 I do not like it's method of relocating, it's simply teleporting which unless your a mage you shouldn't be able to do therefore it's immersion breaking for me.

As opposed to weilding 2H weaponry like baseball bats, slinging spells, etc? I do not mind it, as Warriors also rush to targets as swiftly. I imagine it as a martial defensive maneuver best described as, "quicker than the eye could follow, he was behind me".

A mage is supposed to sling spells thats what they do, a rogue shouldn't be able to cast spells such as teleport imho, it's not moving faster than eye can see because then why does he never move that fast at any other time if he has the ability to move that fast then makes no tactical logical sense would only use it in one move. A warrior is supposed to have strength and muscles there for it is easier for them to swing a heavy sword but the dash mode is again something I think is unrealistic. It seems to me the only way Bioware could get around closing in on mobs was to use magic and silly super powers. As far as I am concerned if a mob is firing arrows at you or spells, if you chose a melee class character then as DG said "Suck it up princess".

Equip a bow or if have a mage in party they can take down the ranged types not every single class having teleportation or super god like speed to make up for lack of tactical approach. This is one aspect they really did "dumb down", I have never had a problem dealing with ranged mobs in any game as such either use a ranged companion to take it down use a ranged weapon yourself or a simple concept go walk around a corner, the mob will come around after you therefore closing in on you instead which works. Simple tactics as opposed to super god like teleporting on all classes. Hell even a mage casting some form of protection or damage reduction on you buying you enough time to charge at them like Braveheart would work, just not every class being able to teleport due to the developers lack of imagination in resolving the closing in issue.

In DA2 there is no class that can teleport, the real animations were cut off (confirmed by David Gaider), so it appears to be teleporting, but it isn't. Example: Vendetta. The rogue does not teleport, he goes into stealth and runs (at speeds that Sonic would die of envy) to the target.

[Dragoonlordz]

andraip wrote...

In DA2 there is no class that can teleport, the real animations were cut off (confirmed by David Gaider), so it appears to be teleporting, but it isn't. Example: Vendetta. The rogue does not teleport, he goes into stealth and runs (at speeds that Sonic would die of envy) to the target.

It is what it is, if remove the actions to show that it isn't then it is because that is how it was shown to be.

Aradace wrote...

Agreed lol.  But there are some nerd-ragers out there that apparently think it is.  The whole arguement in general is pretty humorous to say the least.

Really don't care what it is you think given your inflammatory choice or words calling people "nerd-ragers" along with lack of interest in the debate of such aspects, clearly you have the intelligence of a peanut and the attention span of a goldfish. Everything in a game should be debated and talked about. That way things improve and if such things do not warrant your attention or willingness to partake in the discussion then don't post stupid remarks calling people "nerd-ragers".

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[Curlain]

andraip wrote...


In DA2 there is no class that can teleport, the real animations were cut off (confirmed by David Gaider), so it appears to be teleporting, but it isn't. Example: Vendetta. The rogue does not teleport, he goes into stealth and runs (at speeds that Sonic would die of envy) to the target.

Ah so everyone who appears to be teleporting is just super-speeding like the Flash or Superman (or some vampires) well that's much better then lol 

Modifié par Curlain, 09 mai 2011 - 02:03 .

[Aradace]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Really don't care what it is you think given your inflammatory choice or words calling people "nerd-ragers" along with lack of interest in the debate of such aspects, clearly you have the intelligence of a peanut and the attention span of a goldfish. Everything in a game should be debated and talked about. That way things improve and if such things do not warrant your attention or willingness to partake in the discussion then don't post stupid remarks calling people "nerd-ragers".

Thank you for proving my point.  Especially the part about how humorous some of these remarks are lol.

[andraip]

The link where DG explains it is here

[Dragoonlordz]

andraip wrote...

The link where DG explains it is here

As he states himself it looks like teleportation and he was not happy with the results. He talks about mages in particular but the fact is that it is not just mages who can do such acts in DA2. If it waddles like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and taste's like one then it is a duck. If he wished it to be something else then he needs to implement ways of showing such. He states that himself that the end result was not something he was happy with so in essence agrees with me that it is not how it preferably should be.

@Aradace

Like I said if you have got nothing intelligent to say or forward a discussion then why bother posting at all unless your desire is nothing more than baiting in which using insulting terms such as nerd-ragers would apply of which is frowned upon by the moderators.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 mai 2011 - 02:22 .

[Aradace]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


@Aradace

Like I said if you have got nothing intelligent to say or forward a discussion then why bother posting at all unless your desire is nothing more than baiting in which using insulting terms such as nerd-ragers would apply of which is frowned upon by the moderators.

And now you preach hypocracy lol.  Your previous coupled with this, yea, you're a hypocrite but hey, if that's how you do business, that's on you

Edit: Actually on topic, we'll see who the devs side with once the next DA game hits the shelves.  But when you guys dont get Dragon Age Origins 2, dont blame me.  I merely tried to tell you what was coming and you simply chose not to listen

Modifié par Aradace, 09 mai 2011 - 02:29 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Aradace wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...


@Aradace

Like I said if you have got nothing intelligent to say or forward a discussion then why bother posting at all unless your desire is nothing more than baiting in which using insulting terms such as nerd-ragers would apply of which is frowned upon by the moderators.

And now you preach hypocracy lol.  Your previous coupled with this, yea, you're a hypocrite but hey, if that's how you do business, that's on you

I highlighted parts for you to pay attention towards. The result of my lowering myself to your level is a consequence of your actions. So in that regard you succeded in your baiting but is nothing to be proud of and just shows how low a level maturity you have to seek such giggles by baiting in the first place, while at the same time I lacked the sense to avoid sinking to your level but that is a result of what baiting does. Hence why baiting is frowned upon and normally results in a warning followed by 24hr forum suspension if warning is not taken seriously.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 mai 2011 - 02:33 .

[Yrkoon]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

andraip wrote...

The link where DG explains it is here

As he states himself it looks like teleportation and he was not happy with the results. He talks about mages in particular but the fact is that it is not just mages who can do such acts in DA2. If it waddles like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and taste's like one then it is a duck. If he wished it to be something else then he needs to implement ways of showing such. He states that himself that the end result was not something he was happy with so in essence agrees with me that it is not how it preferably should be.

Indeed.   People don't care why their characters are teleporting around, just that they are.


And on a sidenote.... my memory may be faulty here (it's been a while since I've done a rogue playthru of Awakening) but My  response to David Gaider's  explanation is:  No, man, you didn't  "not implement the animations". they were there before and  you removed them.  And it was  an intentional removal.  And you know it.  In Awakening, rogues had a talent called Flicker, where they'd go into warp speed and backstab everyone in a rather large area of effect.  But it was DECENTLY  done, as  instead of teleporting around, you SAW the rogue,  zipping in a streak,  from one target to the next.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 mai 2011 - 03:02 .

[Aradace]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...


@Aradace

Like I said if you have got nothing intelligent to say or forward a discussion then why bother posting at all unless your desire is nothing more than baiting in which using insulting terms such as nerd-ragers would apply of which is frowned upon by the moderators.

And now you preach hypocracy lol.  Your previous coupled with this, yea, you're a hypocrite but hey, if that's how you do business, that's on you

I highlighted parts for you to pay attention towards. The result of my lowering myself to your level is a consequence of your actions. So in that regard you succeded in your baiting but is nothing to be proud of and just shows how low a level maturity you have to seek such giggles by baiting in the first place, while at the same time I lacked the sense to avoid sinking to your level but that is a result of what baiting does. Hence why baiting is frowned upon and normally results in a warning followed by 24hr forum suspension if warning is not taken seriously.

If baiting is how you want to see it, that's your own fault.  Far be it from me to tell you what you perceive lol.  Seriously though, it's the internet.  Getting upset over a term like "nerd-rager" is just silly.  You know what? Im a nerd-rager too.  Not over DA thats for damn sure but if you put anything Star Wars related on the table then you can sure bet I'll be one of the first nerd-ragers there lol.  Dont be so insecure bro.  Words are words, it's not like Im threatening bodily harm or whatnot.  Now that would be worth getting upset over.  But a word like "nerd-rager" being used in a very light-hearted way (at least IMO) is sooooooooooooooooo not worth it lol.  You tell ME to grow up.  You sir, need to look in the mirror first before you tell anyone to grow up.

@Yrkoon - *drools* Ahhhhhh Fliiiiiiicker lol.  Honestly though, I wish they had done it more like that than the way it currently is.  My feelings arent hurt over it though.  But if they'd implemented it they way Flicker was done in a future game, that would be nice.

Modifié par Aradace, 09 mai 2011 - 02:47 .

[Sabriana]

Lol @ Tommy. Well, I'd consider it too, but unfortunately for me, there's no way to delete all the other.... stuff and keep the goodies only.

[Night Prowler76]

Aradace wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...



-In DA:O you could  engage in dialogue with your companions any time.  You can't in DA2.
)

Dont remember where I read it, but if you're hoping they're going to remedy this for DA3, you're mistaken.  They've already stated that they are NOT going back to the DA:O way of "party interaction".  Just wish I could find the link where one of the devs actually said that.

David said its harder to programme the interactions in certain area's, basically the camera can run into problems, but it still can be done, he didnt say it wouldnt go back to that style, he implyed there would not be as much extra storytelling by your companions when you talk to them.

Likely you will be able to talk to companions when you want again, there just want be as much content, and I think they see that the consumer wants extra RPG elements and content, thats pretty much why ME3 got pushed back, so please, dont state things as fact when you dont really know.

[Aradace]

@Night - Actually, he kinda DID say that. In fact the quote was pretty much "Dont expect us to go back to that system any time soon..." In fact, in that same interview he said that the ONLY thing he didnt like about the interactions in DA2 was that most of it was done during Act 2 and he wishes they had "front loaded" more of it during Act 1.

If I sifted through all my of pages of threads Ive followed Im sure I could dig it up but he seriously said that.  Could narrow that search down further if I remember what thread on here I saw the link in lol

Modifié par Aradace, 09 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

David said its harder to programme the interactions in certain area's, basically the camera can run into problems, but it still can be done, he didnt say it wouldnt go back to that style, he implyed there would not be as much extra storytelling by your companions when you talk to them.

I for one hope that it is true that they try their very best to bring back (non) event or quest only interaction. It to me was a major flaw in the game enjoyment and it's removal and limitation in DA2 forced a detrimental feeling towards tha game and that aspect. It certainly is on my desire to see in next title list, the companion interaction while walking around branching dialogues discussing their backgrounds and/or the quests/enviroments while on out and about. Such things affect my desire to purchase a game and after DA2 I am far more cautious on what Bioware games I buy from this point on. One thing being a certainty, I have no intention of pre-ordering again from Bioware instead waiting to see what they produce.

@Aradace

Then start searching because an interpretation of what he says is not the same as him saying it. I am not saying he did not but I also am not going to take your interpretation as gospel.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 mai 2011 - 03:11 .

[Grovermancer]

Chugster wrote...

But what i havent seen much of are actual facts as to why....

Maybe some people just choose to ignore them.


Here are a few FACTS, regarding combat (especially in comparison to DAO).

-- the characters move/fight absurdly too fast to be true to real life
-- the characters move in spastic, twitchy ways during strikes and swings
-- the weapons are apparently weightless
-- the combat moves and techniques (that I've seen) are not realistic or true to actual combat
-- the physical kinesthetics are wrong, and imply ignorance (or intentional butchering) of historical (or pre-established from DAO) combat technique
-- people in real weapons combat don't leap to and fro, or lunge a dozen feet in the blink of an eye
-- bodies don't explode, no matter how hard you strike them
-- waves of armored humans jumping in from 30 feet high


Logical (and intellectually honest) conclusions:

1.  Fact:  DAO's combat was meant to be more or less believable in a real-world-physics way, thus fitting with the dark, 'low' fantasy setting of the established DA universe
2.  Fact:  DA2 utterly violates that, violates that setting, atmosphere, the world and it's physical laws


Conclusion:  Anime power rangers hod-rod ninja god-of-war combat  = "bad," since that's not how it was originally portrayed, and does not fit the established world

[Night Prowler76]

Aradace wrote...

@Night - Actually, he kinda DID say that. In fact the quote was pretty much "Dont expect us to go back to that system any time soon..." In fact, in that same interview he said that the ONLY thing he didnt like about the interactions in DA2 was that most of it was done during Act 2 and he wishes they had "front loaded" more of it during Act 1.

If I sifted through all my of pages of threads Ive followed Im sure I could dig it up but he seriously said that.  Could narrow that search down further if I remember what thread on here I saw the link in lol

What he was talking about was all of the extra chat dialogue, like the stories that Leliana and Morrigan would tell you, and remember, David is not a designer, he is the lead writer, if the design team tells him to make more content, he has to do it, its not his decision...

David can "kinda" imply things all he wants, at the end of the day, its not his decision, he has bosses, just like everyone else, and if it comes down to DA3 telling a million more copies because the put in extra content, I would expect there to be extra content, especially since DA2 is going to be hard pressed to sell half the copies DAO did.

[Night Prowler76]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

David said its harder to programme the interactions in certain area's, basically the camera can run into problems, but it still can be done, he didnt say it wouldnt go back to that style, he implyed there would not be as much extra storytelling by your companions when you talk to them.

I for one hope that it is true that they try their very best to bring back (non) event or quest only interaction. It to me was a major flaw in the game enjoyment and it's removal and limitation in DA2 forced a detrimental feeling towards tha game and that aspect. It certainly is on my desire to see in next title list, the companion interaction while walking around branching dialogues discussing their backgrounds and/or the quests/enviroments while on out and about. Such things affect my desire to purchase a game and after DA2 I am far more cautious on what Bioware games I buy from this point on. One thing being a certainty, I have no intention of pre-ordering again from Bioware instead waiting to see what they produce.

@Aradace

Then start searching because an interpretation of what he says is not the same as him saying it. I am not saying he did not but I also am not going to take your interpretation as gospel.

I think there will be alot of people like yourself, the pre-orders will likely take a big hit, (which is a good thing), it will make the game stand on its on quality, and not just the Bioware name.