382 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

1) Waves are used in an annoying way. Waves should be saved for places where they make sense.

2) Random encounters suck. Suck! There are more gangs in Hightown at night than there are people. It's like a reverse Batman, where by day everyone is nice and normal, then by night every single citizen puts on their gang costume and starts attacking Hawke.

3) Gear and party equipment =needs= =requires= =must have= =is necessary= to have a central place for management. I do not want to have to pull everything out of my storage bin, load a party, equip, load a new party, equip, ever again. That was crap.

4) More variety of areas would be nice, but this bothers me the least. At least update the minimap correctly so I don't think there's a switch some place or an opening I'm missing.

5) No more trash loot. Honestly, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart: **** Trash Loot. What is the point? If I'm looting an enemy, it should be for a reason.

6) No more random world loot. Why am I require to run to every gorram shinny box and look inside? I can't skip them, because what if there's something interesting inside? But there never really is anything interesting in a random barrel placed randomly in the world. But... what if there was?

Everything else was great. Art, mechanics, story, all were win.


PS:  7)  Need Moar Mage Pants.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 08 mai 2011 - 02:28 .

[Lumikki]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Phaedros wrote...

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

What worries me is that Mike Laidlaw and his cronies thought this was the way to go with the DA franchise and its what the fans would love. How wrong was he? Is he able to see what went wrong? If not how wrong will be the lessons learned from this game? What Ham will be landed next time?

This^  worries me too

And what was wrong here again what Mike Laidlaw and his cronies thought?
It was wrong because you people think so?

It is wrong because a lot of people do not like the direction Mike Laidlaw took based on the design of DA:O.
It it wrong? In Mike Laidlaw's mind, No. It was his vision.
Many do not agree with that vision. Mike made the game he wanted to make. It is simply not the game a lot of people want.

There is nothing wrong not to like Mike Laidlaw's vision.

How ever, there is something wrong to assume Mike Laidlaw's vision is wrong one just because you don't like his vision. Meaning it's equal assumtion to the vision to be wrong or right.

I bolded here, is "a lot" here more than people who did like it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 mai 2011 - 02:28 .

[nopho]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Funny how all this hate for the game comes from 30ish people who wrote in every single hate thread in the forums.

hm... so how is a good way to point out that you strike me as not very smart or open minded....
"funny how every defensive post for DA2 in this forum is made by 12year old flying green skinned rabbits"
sounds stupid to you? well i just throw random attributes at a whole group of people in hope people who read that won't think i've gone either loco or troll.

And NONE of the complaints they make are objective.

please  do not claim to have read the posts if you don't. either that or you didn't make the effort to understand what has been written.

This thread has gone on for 2 pages now and only 1 clearly technical fault in the game: bugs. And the worst of those have already been fixed.

see above

Borderline cases are the over use of wave system and recycled maps, neither of those are new to games, not even for Bioware games by the way.

oh i see, so if one does something bad and i do the same bad thing than it is ok because "hey the others did that too"? not to mention that the sheer extend in DA2 is unique to Bioware a company who could pride itself in quality.

Every other complaints are subjective and not technical by a long shot. DA2 does have it's faults but they are no where near as bad as the whiners make you believe.

and that is NOT a subjective view? i mean sorry, but how DARE you to take the right of telling me and anyone else what our opinions are? you sir, are the whiner here.

The plot is new and refreshing change from the standard "oh you nameless orphan, please save our world because we could do it ourselves but don't feel like it at the moment. YOU ARE OUR ONLY HOPE! Oh and health potions and equipment will cost you the normal rate" (DA:O's "plot" is as riveting as reading a phone book).

subjective view, those are bad, right?

Art style of DA2 isn't the greatest but it's not a game breaker. Combat system is great the animations not so good as opposed to DA:O's suffle system (the is no combat system in DA:O) with some what good animations.

subjective view

And yes these, excluding the three technical faults I mentioned earlier, are subjective views.

pointing it out at the end but still complaining about when others do that.

[TEWR]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it was just a poor way of expressing frustration over opinions being labeled as facts.

But as others have pointed out, plenty of people do this whether they are pro or con.

And to be honest, people were doing it before DA2 was even released.

And that to me is just sad. People will bash a game before it's released, before they even know anything about it, and then feel justified when it's not the game they like and sales aren't as good. That's confirmation bias, isn't it?

[Shadesofsiknas]

Does something have to have "technical" faults to be considered no good?

I have a Phenom 2 quad @3.2ghz, 8Gigs of Ram and a Hd6870 overclocked to 915ghz all the latest drivers and such.. I constantly had to endure the game slowing to a crawl during cut-scenes and big combat scenes. Does this qualify as a technical failure?

Just to put this in perspective I can run crysis at 1440 x 900 at 60fps on max settings without a glich. But DA2 which should not even come close to taxing my system runs like a 3 legged Rhino trying to perform a Ballet.

Modifié par Shadesofsiknas, 08 mai 2011 - 02:32 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

Does something have to have "technical" faults to be considered no good?

I have a Phenom 2 quad @3.2ghz, 8Gigs of Ram and a Hd6870 overclocked to 915ghz all the latest drivers and such.. I constantly had to endure the game slowing to a crawl during cut-scenes and big combat scenes. Does this qualify as a technical failure?

Just to put this in perspective I can run crysis at 1440 x 900 at 60fps on max settings without a glich. But DA2 which should not even come close to taxing my system runs like a 3 legged Rhino trying to perform a Ballet.

You've got system problems, man.  I'm on a slower Intel proc, half the RAM, and a 4870x2 running a higher resolution and I had two instances of chop the entire game.

[Sabriana]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it was just a poor way of expressing frustration over opinions being labeled as facts.

But as others have pointed out, plenty of people do this whether they are pro or con.

And to be honest, people were doing it before DA2 was even released.

And that to me is just sad. People will bash a game before it's released, before they even know anything about it, and then feel justified when it's not the game they like and sales aren't as good. That's confirmation bias, isn't it?

Not unless you wish that psych buzzword to go both ways.

People expressed their opinion about the game when information about its structure started to trickle in. They were told there was nothing to worry about. At least that's what I remember happening. However, I tried to avoid the forums, ads, interviews, etc. as to not spoil the first play-through. In hind-sight, I shouldn't have done that. But that's neither here nor there.

People were not complaining/praising the unreleased game per se, but were reacting to what trickled down to the forums. Those people were in turn, often assured that there was nothing to worry about. That was further reinforced by the ad-campaigns, and the marketing hype. I believe that confirmation bias does not apply here.

[Dormiglione]

It doesnt care which game we are discussing. There are always groups that like it and other that dislike it. Some of the complaints are baseless, some are valid. Now it depends how you personally feel about the game. If you like it then most of the issues about the game cant bother you. If you dont like it, then is every little bug something that makes you mad.

Basically i say that, when you go out to buy a product you do some research about it, ask friends, read the advertising and so on. And sometimes you give just credits to a company that you trust that they make games that you like, that are written in some fashion, that have the gameplay, the story option and other things that you like. So you preorder the game (as i did).

I payed for Dragon Age 2 the same price as for Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2. Im not happy about what i got with Dragon Age 2 when i compare it with the other titles that i mentioned. Sure you can say, its time to move on, you are an "old-fashioned" RPG player, thats another product, thats the future. In some extent you are right, i like the "old" RPG style, i like the style of ME1, ME2 and DAO.
DA2 went another way. Its not that what i like and if future DA title go the same way, then i dont buy them anymore.
 
Your question "Give me FACTS about what is technically bad in this game" cant be really when there are so many emotions. The question should be: "Why are you not content with the game, what makes you that upset"
So many of the reaction are based on emotions not on technical facts.

Im sorry that i cant express myself so good as many other here in the forum can. I could write a wall of text in my native language, but then it had to be translated and would loose a lot of what i really wanted to say.

To sum it up: Emotions

[TEWR]

Sabriana wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think it was just a poor way of expressing frustration over opinions being labeled as facts.

But as others have pointed out, plenty of people do this whether they are pro or con.

And to be honest, people were doing it before DA2 was even released.

And that to me is just sad. People will bash a game before it's released, before they even know anything about it, and then feel justified when it's not the game they like and sales aren't as good. That's confirmation bias, isn't it?

Not unless you wish that psych buzzword to go both ways.

People expressed their opinion about the game when information about its structure started to trickle in. They were told there was nothing to worry about. At least that's what I remember happening. However, I tried to avoid the forums, ads, interviews, etc. as to not spoil the first play-through. In hind-sight, I shouldn't have done that. But that's neither here nor there.

People were not complaining/praising the unreleased game per se, but were reacting to what trickled down to the forums. Those people were in turn, often assured that there was nothing to worry about. That was further reinforced by the ad-campaigns, and the marketing hype. I believe that confirmation bias does not apply here.

I saw a lot of hate for the game before release and people saying the story was bland and lackluster and had no sense of originality. They were making even more assumptions when they knew nothing.

Not on here, but on Facebook.

I also can't believe how some people praised the idea of elves getting a new look and now hate it, when the artwork is the same as what we see in game

[AkiKishi]

Realmzmaster wrote...

It is wrong because a lot of people do not like the direction Mike Laidlaw took based on the design of DA:O.
It it wrong? In Mike Laidlaw's mind, No. It was his vision.
Many do not agree with that vision. Mike made the game he wanted to make. It is simply not the game a lot of people want.

IF DA2 had actually been good and well polished then most people would have accepted it in the same way that most people accept ME2. It's not really the roleplaying game they wanted but it was still a good game.

If DA2 was the game Mike wanted then Mike needs his head examined. DA2 is more like what could be cobbled together in the alloted timeframe. 
 
DA2 is all about padding, from reused areas to waves, these things make a short game appear longer. Other games do the same thing, but in DA2 it's so obvious it borders on cynical.

[Shadesofsiknas]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

Does something have to have "technical" faults to be considered no good?

I have a Phenom 2 quad @3.2ghz, 8Gigs of Ram and a Hd6870 overclocked to 915ghz all the latest drivers and such.. I constantly had to endure the game slowing to a crawl during cut-scenes and big combat scenes. Does this qualify as a technical failure?

Just to put this in perspective I can run crysis at 1440 x 900 at 60fps on max settings without a glich. But DA2 which should not even come close to taxing my system runs like a 3 legged Rhino trying to perform a Ballet.

You've got system problems, man.  I'm on a slower Intel proc, half the RAM, and a 4870x2 running a higher resolution and I had two instances of chop the entire game.

I dont think so!

I run games like Metro 2033 , Batman AA, Crysis and GTA4 perfectly. It aint a problem on my end. Go look at the PC help section and see how many people have had problems with this game. And for that matter go to the DAO section aswell. The DA team cant program for ****. Their engine has bee crap for both games truth be told.

[Merced652]

Pretty ****ing retarded to ask for facts about things that generally come down to opinion, but yee fanbois will never relent. The fact that so many valid ones have been presented and apparently accepted under such parameters just goes to show how horrible this game is.

[mesmerizedish]

I don't know much about programming engines, but I will say that DAII *seems* to be well-enough optimized. I have an HD5770, a Core 2 Duo e6750 (a few years old), and 4GB of RAM... I run DAII at 60FPS on High, and 30FPS on Very High.

[Lumikki]

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

I dont think so!

I run games like Metro 2033 , Batman AA, Crysis and GTA4 perfectly. It aint a problem on my end. Go look at the PC help section and see how many people have had problems with this game. And for that matter go to the DAO section aswell. The DA team cant program for ****. Their engine has bee crap for both games truth be told.

This means nothing. There is also many people who may never had problems with same game.

I mean every different game in different computer setup can behave differently based so many variable that can't even counted. When game has REAL problems, then most people have it. How ever, if a few players has problems with game X but hasn't have any problems with any 100 games before, that doesn't mean it's game's X fault. it could be any unexpected combination of variables that cause it. Point is that there could be some unexpected situation what is affecting only this kind of game, because something what company did not expected to happen in your system setup.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 mai 2011 - 03:04 .

[Big I]

Since taste and judgement are subjective, I'm of the opinion that the criticism of DA2 is at least as valid as the praise. However, the problems everyone agrees on:

-Reused areas

-Trash drops

-Getting items (armor) that you or your companions can't use

-Enemy waves

-Fighting both "bosses" in the endgame

-The many, many gameplay bugs, including but not limited to the Isabella and Sebastian friendship ones.

-Kirkwall doesn't change over the game.

-Mage/blood mage classes not having an effect on the story.


Personally my biggest problem was the story and how little relevance the protagonist had to anything that happened.

[Sabriana]

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux

That is normal. Believe it or not. It has been happening for many years. I can't recall of any bioware game that wasn't ****ed and moaned about before release. DA:O was no exception. Lords, the things people complained about with DA:O was sometimes mind-boggling. But it always stopped. People usually came around when the game became available.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Since taste and judgement are subjective, I'm of the opinion that the criticism of DA2 is at least as valid as the praise. However, the problems everyone agrees on:

-Reused areas

-Trash drops

-Getting items (armor) that you or your companions can't use

-Enemy waves

-Fighting both "bosses" in the endgame

-The many, many gameplay bugs, including but not limited to the Isabella and Sebastian friendship ones.

-Kirkwall doesn't change over the game.

-Mage/blood mage classes not having an effect on the story.


Personally my biggest problem was the story and how little relevance the protagonist had to anything that happened.

I can think of only one place where Kirkwall changed between acts.

The Ferelden's shop in lowtown moved, because its door was replaced by the base of a huge arch. 

Everything else, yeah.

[Merced652]

Shinian2 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Since taste and judgement are subjective, I'm of the opinion that the criticism of DA2 is at least as valid as the praise. However, the problems everyone agrees on:

-Reused areas

-Trash drops

-Getting items (armor) that you or your companions can't use

-Enemy waves

-Fighting both "bosses" in the endgame

-The many, many gameplay bugs, including but not limited to the Isabella and Sebastian friendship ones.

-Kirkwall doesn't change over the game.

-Mage/blood mage classes not having an effect on the story.


Personally my biggest problem was the story and how little relevance the protagonist had to anything that happened.

I can think of only one place where Kirkwall changed between acts.

The Ferelden's shop in lowtown moved, because its door was replaced by the base of a huge arch. 

Everything else, yeah.

Don't forget that generic statue of the heavily armored bro in the docks after a2. 

[tmp7704]

Chugster wrote...

But what i havent seen much of are actual facts as to why....there are plenty of opinions based on taste, but aside from the repetitive dungeons, i havent seen anything factual about this game being bad...nothing that ruins gameplay form a technical standpoint

Bad is largely matter of taste. You may as well demand people explain to you what is technically bad about taste of lemons.

That's why premise of this thread is quite silly.

If you really insist on getting just the technical shortcomings, though...

* the game attempts to tell a story that the engine can't actually handle (it's designed for no more than 25 entities on screen at once iirc, that obviously isn't going to mesh well with trying to set it in a bustling city),

* NPCs don't react to events and can be selectively unaffected by them (ambient NPCs wading into AoE and not even noticing let alone taking any damage)

* semi-related to the above, the game is for the most part forced to ignore situations where the player and his/her companions openly display behaviours which the game repeatedly tells you would result in swift reaction and most severe punishment.

* very poor targeting controls in the PC version -- it's laughable the console version can have targeting detached from the caster and moving camera, but the PC doesn't.

* poor animation system -- characters snap from one pose into another without any blending, very easy to notice in situations like character switching from turning to stand pose and such.

* inadequate camera system -- it's easy for the controlled character to actually go out of the view because their moves send them across large distances instantly and the camera fails to react fast enough.

* constant reuse of environments, self-explanatory

* constant reuse of NPC types -- there's very few creature models available

* the environments are for the most part static, despite alleged passage of time.

* very limited interactions with the player's companions. The interactions which are available largely follow single, identical template.

* inconsistent and in many cases poor quality of textures and object meshes.

* limited variety in the character customization system, with some of the morph targets visibly clipping into haircut models and such.

... that's the ones which come to mind off the bat. There's probably more.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 mai 2011 - 03:42 .

[sonsonthebia07]

I don't have too many beefs with DA2.

The biggest would be the reused 5 or so dungeons and expecting 3+ waves for every single encounter.

I also thought the ending was lackluster and I could do with enemies not disintegrating every single time I slash them with my little knife.

I have a bunch of other quips too but those were the worst I think.


These are all probably opinions, and redundant by now, but I doubt anyone actually cares for reused dungeons after going through the same cave 10 times in a row.

Modifié par sonsonthebia07, 08 mai 2011 - 03:41 .

[TEWR]

Sabriana wrote...

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux

That is normal. Believe it or not. It has been happening for many years. I can't recall of any bioware game that wasn't ****ed and moaned about before release. DA:O was no exception. Lords, the things people complained about with DA:O was sometimes mind-boggling. But it always stopped. People usually came around when the game became available.

That just makes me sad.

[Alex Kershaw]

You just listed about 5 bad things and for some reason said they can't be included.

[Kangasniemi]

[quote]nopho wrote...

[quote]Kangasniemi wrote...

Funny how all this hate for the game comes from 30ish people who wrote in every single hate thread in the forums. [/quote]

hm... so how is a good way to point out that you strike me as not very smart or open minded....
"funny how every defensive post for DA2 in this forum is made by 12year old flying green skinned rabbits"
sounds stupid to you? well i just throw random attributes at a whole group of people in hope people who read that won't think i've gone either loco or troll.
[/quote]

I ment about 30 different people do 99% of the complaining on these forums. The same group of people complain the same useless things in every thread on these forums.

[quote]
[quote]And NONE of the complaints they make are objective. [/quote]
please  do not claim to have read the posts if you don't. either that or you didn't make the effort to understand what has been written.
[/quote]

2 poorly deviced underhanded insults in and nothing more, wonder why I even bother to reply...

[quote]
[quote]
This thread has gone on for 2 pages now and only 1 clearly technical fault in the game: bugs. And the worst of those have already been fixed. [/quote]
see above
[/quote]

So ranting for 2 pages about how the plot sucks, or how the art is not something YOU happen to like are a TECHNICAL and purely subjective fault in the game? Riiiiiiiight...

[quote]
[quote]
Borderline cases are the over use of wave system and recycled maps, neither of those are new to games, not even for Bioware games by the way. [/quote]
oh i see, so if one does something bad and i do the same bad thing than it is ok because "hey the others did that too"? not to mention that the sheer extend in DA2 is unique to Bioware a company who could pride itself in quality.
[/quote]

Bioware has ALWAYS cut corners in their games, some times it's much more notisable some times subtle, but they have always copy/pasted parts of the games. (Copy/pasted worlds of ME1, 3 different sound samples that are used as speech in KOTOR and Jade Empire and so on) Same goes for the whole industry, actually for the whole god damned humankind. So plotting to murder Laidlaw because of some copy/pasted maps is a weee bit overreacting.

[quote]
[quote]
Every other complaints are subjective and not technical by a long shot. DA2 does have it's faults but they are no where near as bad as the whiners make you believe. [/quote]
and that is NOT a subjective view? i mean sorry, but how DARE you to take the right of telling me and anyone else what our opinions are? you sir, are the whiner here.
[/quote]

I have the SAME god given right that every one else has. And seeing how there are a million theards on "The some maps are copied. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! The game SUX0r. Boicot Bioware and murder the dev team!" And now that some one comes and says that that your opinion, you try to launch a damned crusade against every one that doesn't have the same view as you.

[quote]
[quote]
The plot is new and refreshing change from the standard "oh you nameless orphan, please save our world because we could do it ourselves but don't feel like it at the moment. YOU ARE OUR ONLY HOPE! Oh and health potions and equipment will cost you the normal rate" (DA:O's "plot" is as riveting as reading a phone book).
[/quote]
subjective view, those are bad, right?
[/quote]
Yes subjective, but I never even tried to say that this is the only right view on the matter and every who thinks differently must be drawn and quartered.

[quote]
[quote]
Art style of DA2 isn't the greatest but it's not a game breaker. Combat system is great the animations not so good as opposed to DA:O's suffle system (the is no combat system in DA:O) with some what good animations.
[/quote]
subjective view
[/quote]
As I said before.

[quote]
[quote]
And yes these, excluding the three technical faults I mentioned earlier, are subjective views.
[/quote]
pointing it out at the end but still complaining about when others do that.
[/quote]

And I still never tried to say that my views about the plot or artwork were nothing more than subjective views unlike some many of these so called HC Bioware fans.

Seeing how many of you like to have your games EXACTLY like they were 10 years ago and NO CHANGES no matter how small to be made in secuels, I would suggest you go and play COD. That game has been made over and over and over again and NOTHING has changed.

So go play Activisions carpon copied crap and let Bioware make games that make changes. God knows how rare changing anything in a game is these days.

[Apollo Starflare]

For me perhaps the biggest error or 'bad thing' in the game is the somewhat admirably overreaching the team attempted. Really they were just far too ambitious given the timeframe and amount of work they had.

Creating a game with a framed narrative that takes place over ten years and focuses not on a big bad monster but the evil in the hearts of men and the universes own (very interesting and contraversial) Mage/Templar/Chantry divide was a fantastic idea... Presuming you had the development time to do it justice.

A game of that scope, looking back, really needs more time spent on it, particularly if you have to create/alter the graphics engine on top of everything else.

Almost every actual complaint or negative thing about the game (that isn't just opinionated waffle such as those who hate the story or the cast etc. Valid opinions perhaps, but far from something genuinly wrong with the game) stems from this initial over ambitious reach. Which, isn't that bad on the one hand - it shows that the BioWare we know and love is still trying to experiment and take things in new directions etc.

However big things such as the impact of a players chosen class went missing. Areas (which are always recycled in ANY rpg) were recycled to the point that anyone who loves the game to bits would have to shrug and admit it was a bit much. Certain plot elements ended up feeling rushed and didn't link together as well as they could, despite being great moments and ideas on the whole. Lastly the change in combat, while not bad (in my opinion) definitely needed more time and refinement, as it was an over reliance on waves and elite mobs with huge health bars seemed to end up in the game.

A point on the clases point I mentioned earlier: It wouldn't be so bad but a number of other tweaks and changes make it even more difficult to suspend your disbelief when playing as a Mage. You are required to use a staff for instance, whereas in Origins you could equip melee weapons even if it was a really stupid idea (AW aside). Little details like that coupled with the fact that the dialogue recognises repeatedly (particularly if you have Carver with you) that you are a Mage in hiding, really makes the whole situation seem somewhat ludicrous and rushed. It becomes quite comical in fact when, for example, you help Knight Captain Cullen, an experienced and skilled Templar, fight an abomination using your magic in all it's glory. Not only does he not notice you flinging spells left right and centre, but your Brother tells you off for 'drawing attention to who you are' in the conversation afterwards.

The funny thing is, despite all of this I absolutely adore the game and have almost finished my second run through despite a busy RL. The cast is perhaps my favourite in any BioWare game, the story at it's core is fantastic and has gotten me even more interested in the IP, and what areas made it into the game were generally presented beautifully with the art team excelling themselves.

My main fear now is that whilst I would like nothing more than a DA3 that is released more or less in that graphics engine but given a good 2+ years of development time, that might not happen due to the closing in of 'new consoles' and thus a DA3 that doesn't significantly improve the graphics could be scorned. That either means another quick turnaround for the next game or an even longer wait. But then I know next to nothing about that side of games development so maybe I'm all wrong.

Oh and yes the bickering, raging and sense of entitlement that goes on around these forums can be incredibly off putting. There is plenty wrong with the game, but if you were to believe some people who insist on posting here every day forever, it is some sort of plague to be avoided at all costs. Which would be a shame because it's still a great BioWare game in my opinion.

[Merced652]

is change still novel when its something like you waking up with cancer?

Modifié par Merced652, 08 mai 2011 - 03:56 .