382 réponses à ce sujet

[Gotholhorakh]

Chugster wrote...
But what i havent seen much of are actual facts as to why....there are plenty of opinions based on taste, but aside from the repetitive dungeons, i havent seen anything factual about this game being bad...nothing that ruins gameplay form a technical standpoint

That's akin to saying "Give me facts on what is technically wrong with Kylie's new thrash metal album." because you want to understand why Kylie fans want their money back.

The game has its flaws which as you say you have read about, repetitive areas, animation weirdness (including the complaint of spiders dropping on webs from the sky), spam/junk inventory, aesthetic stuff etc. they're listed ad nauseam all over the forum but here's the rub:



The game is a different type of game to DA:O in ways nobody truly expected.

The following central aspects of BG<->DA:O gameplay and combat have been removed, nerfed or made incidental in DA2:

Tactical combat.
Party control.
Character customisation.


If Kylie does bring out that thrash metal album (but doesn't tell anyone before they preorder it), at least those thousands of people can get refunds.

There are no refunds for this game, so it's more like: Call of Duty 17: Recon Warfare Badger Ops has millions of FPS fans preorder it the moment it's announced... then on playing it they find out it actually involves grooming your pony and swapping cool drawings online, and no refunds.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 08 mai 2011 - 08:26 .

[Chuvvy]

Facts? Nothing, there is nothing that is factually wrong with this game. There are things that many people agree are wrong with this game, but some people might like it. A videogame is subjective, there's nothing that can factually wrong with it. I'd argue that bioware could ship a piece of human feces and say there's nothing wrong with it because they did exactly what they wanted to with it.

Modifié par Slidell505, 08 mai 2011 - 08:31 .

[Realmzmaster]

Lumikki wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Phaedros wrote...

Shadesofsiknas wrote...

What worries me is that Mike Laidlaw and his cronies thought this was the way to go with the DA franchise and its what the fans would love. How wrong was he? Is he able to see what went wrong? If not how wrong will be the lessons learned from this game? What Ham will be landed next time?

This^  worries me too

And what was wrong here again what Mike Laidlaw and his cronies thought?
It was wrong because you people think so?

It is wrong because a lot of people do not like the direction Mike Laidlaw took based on the design of DA:O.
It it wrong? In Mike Laidlaw's mind, No. It was his vision.
Many do not agree with that vision. Mike made the game he wanted to make. It is simply not the game a lot of people want.

There is nothing wrong not to like Mike Laidlaw's vision.

How ever, there is something wrong to assume Mike Laidlaw's vision is wrong one just because you don't like his vision. Meaning it's equal assumtion to the vision to be wrong or right.

I bolded here, is "a lot" here more than people who did like it?

I like the game. I base a lot on the sheer amount of complaints on the forum and many of the media critic scores. I happen to like the game. Mike vision is his own right or wrong is left for each person to decide. I beleieve that Mike sees nothing wrong with his vision.

[ipgd]

Slidell505 wrote...

I'd argue that bioware could ship a piece of human feces and say there's nothing wrong with it because they did exactly what they wanted to with it.

Dog feces is infinitely more delicious. I will be boycotting Bioware until they bring back the tasty canine stools we all fell in love with in the original recipe.

[Zjarcal]

Slidell505 wrote...

Facts? Nothing, there is nothing that is factually wrong with this game. There are things that many people agree are wrong with this game, but some people might like it. A videogame is subjective, there's nothing that can factually wrong with it. I'd argue that bioware could ship a piece of human feces and say there's nothing wrong with it because they did exactly what they wanted to with it.

LOL @ the feces statement.

And I completely agree with the above.

[Realmzmaster]

Shinian2 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Since taste and judgement are subjective, I'm of the opinion that the criticism of DA2 is at least as valid as the praise. However, the problems everyone agrees on:

-Reused areas

-Trash drops

-Getting items (armor) that you or your companions can't use

-Enemy waves

-Fighting both "bosses" in the endgame

-The many, many gameplay bugs, including but not limited to the Isabella and Sebastian friendship ones.

-Kirkwall doesn't change over the game.

-Mage/blood mage classes not having an effect on the story.


Personally my biggest problem was the story and how little relevance the protagonist had to anything that happened.

I can think of only one place where Kirkwall changed between acts.

The Ferelden's shop in lowtown moved, because its door was replaced by the base of a huge arch. 

Everything else, yeah.

You forgot the boarding up of the Qunari compound.

[Dragoonlordz]

There are factually things wrong with the game like example I gave.

How about the console freezes on the PS3 version, pretty sure it counts as factual that it happens with DA2 on PS3 and happened to enough people that it is acknowledged to be an issue in the tech section. You want facts about failing of the game go head over to the tech sections of each format.

It is also a fact that issues such as waves and reused areas affect the enjoyment of the game for people.

But you just want the technical facts so like said head over to the technical issues sections.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mai 2011 - 08:49 .

[Mad-Max90]

Mike never came to my house and took a dump on my carpet, but he did pee on my rug

[DanConnors]

This might be termed "factual". In DAO if you lobbed a fireball into your own party (in desperation because you were being overwhelmed maybe) everybody, yourself included, got knocked down, took damage, was stunned. In DA2 you and your party are totally unaffected. Supposedly we are in the same game world as the original, so fireballs, electric storms, iceblasts should have the same effect as in DAO.

[ChickenDownUnder]

'Facts' is such a funny word on the internet.

I don't see how this thread can end well.

[Lumikki]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I bolded here, is "a lot" here more than people who did like it?

I like the game. I base a lot on the sheer amount of complaints on the forum and many of the media critic scores. I happen to like the game.

My point is that people often see what they want to see. People in game forums often complain a lot because it seem to be part of human nature. As for critics, it depense what scores, there is so many of them. Example I don't place much trust for user scores, because I have learn that too many "users" are way to childish to give real scoring. I don't say some can't, but total scores are based on all of them. Now days, there are way too many users giving extremes scores in both ways, love or hate the game, what meaning 0 and 10 scores. That's just total BS in both ways. Too many people are trying to influese total score with they score than actually give real estimate of the game. So, I look more professional review scores, because most the time these people have at least some credibility and dignity to do the right thing. 

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 mai 2011 - 09:04 .

[Realmzmaster]

Bugs are a technical issue. Everything else is subjective. Technically the waves are implemented correctly. Subjectively a lot of gamers think they make no sense. Technically the spiders dropping from the sky and demons coming up from the earth are technically done correctly. Subjectivel is why are they handing by the sky or passing through solid earth?
Some of this can be explained. Example one of the spells that Merrill has allows her to travel through the earth to the side of another companion. Do the demons possess this ability I do not know?
Also gamers are asking for realistic combat (two-handed sword discussion about animation speed) in a fantasy game where mages throw fireballs, freeze people in place and dog can be summoned from nowhere?

[Dragoonlordz]

DanConnors wrote...

This might be termed "factual". In DAO if you lobbed a fireball into your own party (in desperation because you were being overwhelmed maybe) everybody, yourself included, got knocked down, took damage, was stunned. In DA2 you and your party are totally unaffected. Supposedly we are in the same game world as the original, so fireballs, electric storms, iceblasts should have the same effect as in DAO.

 0:30+

 0:05 to 0:30

It's factual I prefer the former over the latter.  Just has more "(awe)someness" to it. One is like a pillar of righteous fury from the heavens the others is the pitter patter of flaming rain drops.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[Realmzmaster]

Lumikki wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I bolded here, is "a lot" here more than people who did like it?

I like the game. I base a lot on the sheer amount of complaints on the forum and many of the media critic scores. I happen to like the game.

My point is that people often see what they want to see. People in game forums often complain a lot because it seem to be part of human nature. As for critics, it depense what scores, there is so many of them. Example I don't place much trust for user scores, because I have learn that too many "users" are way to childish to give real scoring. I don't say some can't, but total scores are based on all of them. Now days, there is are way too many users giving extremes scores in both ways, love or hate the game, what meaning 0 and 10 scores. That's just total BS in both ways. Too many people are trying to influese total score with they score than actually give real estimate of the game. So, I look more professional review scores, because most the time these people have at least some credibility and dignity to do the right thing. 

Unfortunately not always true considering the 94% score from PC Gamer. I aslo found it funny that in the lastest issue Desslock in his Alternate lives column was not as kind. Even professional reviews need to taken with a grain of salt. For example X-Play (G4) gave it 3 out of 5 stars which puts it at 60%.

Edited: for spelling

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 08 mai 2011 - 09:05 .

[Dragoonlordz]

If anything I view professional reviews with far less credability than user ones. They are paid to review as opposed to player who pay to (re)view and I know as a fact from friend who worked in the industry they write good reviews for things bias favourably because publishers (some not all) will hold back sending them products to review unless they give good scores on their products.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mai 2011 - 09:10 .

[Lumikki]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Unfortunately not always true considering the 94% score from PC Gamer. I aslo found it funny that in the lastest issue Desslock in his Alternate lives column was not as kind. Even professional reviews need to taken with a grain of salt. For example X-Play (G4) gave it 3 aot of 5 stars which puts it at 60%.

I don't find any funny in both scores? I my self would have given 75%, so I consider 60% little low and 94% too high.
(60+94)/2 = 77 *grins*

[andraip]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

The following central aspects of BG<->DA:O gameplay and combat have been removed, nerfed or made incidental in DA2:

Tactical combat.
Party control.
Character customisation.

Sorry? Are you talking about DA2? My version of DA2 had all of these 3 things (and imo there weren't nerfed or made incidental).

The combat of DA2 is far more tactical then in DA:O, althought in casual DA2 combat isn't tactical at all, but NM is a different thing.

Party control  and character customization aren't that much diferent from DA:O.

[Dragoonlordz]

andraip wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

The following central aspects of BG<->DA:O gameplay and combat have been removed, nerfed or made incidental in DA2:

Tactical combat.
Party control.
Character customisation.

Sorry? Are you talking about DA2? My version of DA2 had all of these 3 things (and imo there weren't nerfed or made incidental).

The combat of DA2 is far more tactical then in DA:O, althought in casual DA2 combat isn't tactical at all, but NM is a different thing.

Party control  and character customization aren't that much diferent from DA:O.

Customisation is vastly different between the two on an epic scale of difference. There is not imho much tactical about the waves system in DA2 for me, in DAO you tactically could stealth and scout around the map prior to combat starting and (plan your tactics) this is not something you can do in DA2. Lack of Isometric camera in DA2 also had an effect on tactics. I'm not saying you could not use some basic form of tactics in DA2 though I am saying it lacked some that DAO had.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 mai 2011 - 09:15 .

[Lumikki]

Like I sayed before people see what they want to see. Some people see negative stuff some positive.

[Zanallen]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Customisation is vastly different between the two on an epic scale of difference. There is not imho much tactical about the waves system in DA2 for me, in DAO you tactically could stealth and scout around the map prior to combat starting and (plan your tactics) this is not something you can do in DA2. Lack of Isometric camera in DA2 also had an effect on tactics. I'm not saying you could not use some basic form of tactics in DA2 though I am saying it lacked some that DAO had.

I would argue that DA2 lacks "planning" due to the inclusion of the wave system, but the tactics are still very much there. DA2 just requires you to adjust your tactics on the fly. Its not as simple as "leave long range guys in back and move and hold melee fighters to keep enemies from advancing, focus fire on mages and archers; rinse & repeat".

[Realmzmaster]

DanConnors wrote...

This might be termed "factual". In DAO if you lobbed a fireball into your own party (in desperation because you were being overwhelmed maybe) everybody, yourself included, got knocked down, took damage, was stunned. In DA2 you and your party are totally unaffected. Supposedly we are in the same game world as the original, so fireballs, electric storms, iceblasts should have the same effect as in DAO.

Actually in DAO it depended on the platform and difficulty level whether there was friendly fire. If you played on the PC, Easy has no friendly fire, Normal is half damage, Hard and Nightmare full damage. On the console, Easy and normal no damage, Hard half damage and Nightmare full damage.
Da 2 only has friendly fire on Nightmare.

[Cutlasskiwi]

While do I think that the waves system were used a little to often I do think it was a good idea. For me, it added another level of observation and tactic to combat because enemies could flank my ranged characters. There were no automatic safe spot in the battlefield anymore. It keept me on my toes a lot more unlike the combat in DAO. But, I do hope that they tone down the waves in the next installment.

[Gotholhorakh]

Huntress wrote...

To who ever it fits.

I understand some people feel cheated and they complain but, for howFraking long?

Until acknowledged. That's what consumers do.

Apart from anything else, by tying registration to an account, this is a no refunds purchase.

Disappointed customers can't take the game back to the shop.

You keep the money for an unsatisfactory product and laugh in the consumer's face in the press, you can fully expect their concerns to keep being raised at the least.

Speaking respectfully - surely that is fully understandable, right?

Huntress wrote...
should it be for every 3 post 1 full of rage.. come on, even if you go to a restaurant and the food is bad, would you go there and complain every single day? no! you stop fracking going to that restaurant.

No! If you get something different to what you were expecting in a restaurant, something you have no intention of eating, then where I live you do not eat it and you refuse to pay for it.

If you don't customarily do that where you live, then at the very least you complain, and you inform your friends and other members of the community so that they don't waste their money, right?

I think ponying up the cash for the uneaten meal and shutting your mouth would be very foolish, which is analogous to what you're suggesting.

It would be the most pathetic, least "grown up" course of action possible. It would be the act of a doormat.

Huntress wrote...
. If you have NOTHING to said then do not post, let the others talk aswell. The game wasn't made for everyone liking, just as icecream, pies and burgers.

Apoligies if I insulted anyone, so freaking tired of the so call adults.

Links to make the game better!!!!: http://social.biowar...5/index/6568680

You should understand that other people's expression of their dissatisfaction is right and proper and will not, I'm afraid, stop at your behest, sorry if that sounds blunt, but you know, it's not for you to tell dissatisfied customers to shut up, you know? We all benefit from active consumer criticism and feedback - it's part of what makes products get QC'd, and get better over time.

As for insulting anyone, well be sorry for it if you like, but you must understand that when a company disappoints its customers on a product, and that product is expensive and has been made non-refundable out of pure choice not necessity, and they have prevented the user from selling that product on to try and recoup some of their loss (which is supposed to be their right in some places, by the way), and they thumb their nose at those customers in the public press, those customers will express their dissatisfaction.

I imagine they will do that, here or elsewhere, until they are acknowledged and spoken to like the paying customers they are.

If they are not, eventually they will become disinterested and not be quick to pre-order/buy games from that developer any more.

I don't wish for it, I did not make it so, but I think it's pretty much unavoidable if you alternately ignore and insult customer dissatisfaction over non-refundable products.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 08 mai 2011 - 09:29 .

[andraip]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Customisation is vastly different between the two on an epic scale of difference.

Well, you can't choose the weapon style of your companions, but on the other hand you have now 4 new talent trees that anyone can use, e.g. Varric: you can choose to go for Sabotage, so he would be more a controller, or you can go for specialist, to further boost his DPS.

There is not imho much tactical about the waves system in DA2 for me, in DAO you tactically could stealth and scout around the map prior to combat starting and (plan your tactics) this is not something you can do in DA2. Lack of Isometric camera in DA2 also had an effect on tactics. I'm not saying you could not use some basic form of tactics in DA2 though I am saying it lacked some that DAO had.

I think that the waves made the combat even more tactical, because, since you don't know if there will be another wave or not, so you have to consider using a spell (e.g. horror) now, or wait and use him better in the next wave. Also, with waves, you will have do position your companions more carefully and change that position tacticaly during a fight.

But that's only my opinion, you're free to have a different one.

Modifié par andraip, 08 mai 2011 - 09:30 .

[Gotholhorakh]

andraip wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

The following central aspects of BG<->DA:O gameplay and combat have been removed, nerfed or made incidental in DA2:

Tactical combat.
Party control.
Character customisation.

Sorry? Are you talking about DA2? My version of DA2 had all of these 3 things (and imo there weren't nerfed or made incidental).

The combat of DA2 is far more tactical then in DA:O, althought in casual DA2 combat isn't tactical at all, but NM is a different thing.

Party control and character customization aren't that much diferent from DA:O.

Oh, I respectfully, but completely disagree.

I suspect, but I can't be sure, that lots and lots of other people would disagree with you on that, too.