86 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Orsino, in general, is quite awesome. Except for the Quentin thing. However, I feel a certain sad satisfaction in that, though we have to kill him, Orsino was never nearly as bad as Meredith. It's true that he concealed Quentin, but considering Meredith's psychoses, I can understand why; that sort of magic going on could easily have triggered an Annulment. And, in the end, the whole thing may have worked out for... well, not the best, but better than it could have: Quentin's toll of victims was smaller than the population of the Circle and the amount of people in it who could have been wiped out for crimes that weren't theirs. At least the Annulment came late enough that Hawke could fight it off. I wouldn't say that he did the right thing, but if it was evil, it was a gray rather than black evil.

As for the Harvester thing... well, that's entirely understandable in the templar ending, as he was surrounded and alone. In the mage ending, the templar attack was still devastating to his side, as seen in the cutscene before Hawke kicks templar ass. I think Orsino thought he could control his actions even as a Harvester; clearly he was wrong, and he paid for it with his life. Which is unfortunate; I'd have loved to have some chance to talk him down.

[The Baconer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino, in general, is quite awesome.

I won't bother reading the rest, guy was a hypocritical ***hole. 

[Iakus]

I think we never really got to know Orsino (or Meredith) well enough. We don't get to really see either of them until the end of Act 2, and really interact with them until Act 3, when the mage/templar conflict really comes to a head. I would have much preferred to see them earlier in the story, when they're both more...sane...

I would have loved to see Orsino as a kindly, mage slowly cracking under the stress of keeping his people alive (Anders did a much better job of that)

Similarly, I would have liked to see him clash with a harsh but sane Meredith in the first act, a more paranoid and brutal one in Act 2, and a bat-poop crazy one in Act 3. Might have made both of them seem more like people and less like, well, end bosses.

[Xilizhra]

I won't bother reading the rest, guy was a hypocritical ***hole.

In what way?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 mai 2011 - 06:21 .

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

I won't bother reading the rest, guy was a hypocritical ***hole.

In what way?

Probably in that, in the end, he stooped to using blood magic.

I for one would have liked to see the process of his fall more in detail.  Orsino didn't seem to be the type to go out in a blaze of glory.  His snap seemed awfully sudden.  I would have liked to see the hopelessness that drove him to his actions occur over time.

Modifié par iakus, 08 mai 2011 - 06:24 .

[The Baconer]

Xilizhra wrote...

I won't bother reading the rest, guy was a hypocritical ***hole.

In what way?

Well, you already mentioned Quentin, so I don't know if this is willful ignorance or just being in character.

[Xilizhra]

Probably in that, in the end, he stooped to using blood magic.

I for one would have liked to see the process of his fall more in detail. Orsino didn't seem to be the type to go out in a blaze of glory. His snap seemed awfully sudden. I would have liked to see the hopelessness that drove him to his actions occur over time.

I would have wanted him to have not gone out at all.

[TJPags]

iakus wrote...

I think we never really got to know Orsino (or Meredith) well enough. We don't get to really see either of them until the end of Act 2, and really interact with them until Act 3, when the mage/templar conflict really comes to a head. I would have much preferred to see them earlier in the story, when they're both more...sane...

I would have loved to see Orsino as a kindly, mage slowly cracking under the stress of keeping his people alive (Anders did a much better job of that)

Similarly, I would have liked to see him clash with a harsh but sane Meredith in the first act, a more paranoid and brutal one in Act 2, and a bat-poop crazy one in Act 3. Might have made both of them seem more like people and less like, well, end bosses.

Very true.  Huge game flaw.

That said, my personal feeling (yes, metagaming, but so be it) is that Orsino may well have been frustraing Meredith all along, (inadvertantly perhaps) making things worse for the mages.

Clearly, he would not have wanted his connection to an apostate mass murderer revealed, and even at the end, he seems opposed even to the idea of locking the mages up and interrogating them regarding their involvement in Anders actions and/or blood magic use.

From what we saw, I find Meredith an obsessed nut, and Orsino a scheming a-hole.  Is there more to them than that?  We'll never know.

[Xilizhra]

Clearly, he would not have wanted his connection to an apostate mass murderer revealed, and even at the end, he seems opposed even to the idea of locking the mages up and interrogating them regarding their involvement in Anders actions and/or blood magic use.

After Anders' bomb actually goes off, he's willing to help Meredith search the Gallows, but she refuses.

[llandwynwyn]

With the Circle destroyed, most of his children dead at his feet and hope (even siding with mages) for another day a mere illusion, well, I understand him becoming a Harvester, giving in to his despair, too well to blame him.

[Nerdage]

If his letter to Quentin didn't basically say "Nice work, keep it up!" I might have liked him more. Also, I don't think he ever thought he could control the harvester, pretty sure 'blaze of glory' (if you can call it that, seems pretty inauspicious either way) was exactly what he was after, considering his response to Hawke saying "[Aggressive] Meredith will die long before you do" is "If only I could believe that.", just before he changes.

[Xilizhra]

He clearly wrote it before Quentin started getting nasty, given his line about how it was too dangerous and evil to use in the mage ending.

[Amagoi]

"Hmm, Meredith will use Quentin as an excuse to kill all the mages! What should I do? I know! I'll give him books and research material and shield him from the templars! That's a perfect plan! Orsino, you're a genius!"

Orsino was a crap character. Nothing good or noble about him.

[Mr.House]

No. Orsino is a idiot monster who lied to Hawke and mages the whole dam time. As much as the Knight-Commander might have been bat crap insane, she never lied and was always up front, can't say the same about Orsino and the "I don't believe in blood magic, oh hey look at this ritual I have!"

I don't feel sorry for Orsino, he deserved his fate, he makes mages look bad.

[Xilizhra]

You have it backwards; Quentin didn't become a problem until long after Orsino helped him.

[Beerfish]

Orsino played as much a part in the down fall of the mages as anyone. Horrible first enchanter leadership. Consorting with blood mages well before hand and 100% confirming the mad ramblings of meredith by his actions at the end.

Anders and Orsino both supposidley pro mage did so much harm to the mages across thedas it's tough to calculate, far more harm that one crazed woman templar whose intention was to basically wipe out the kirkwall circle. Suddenly her insane ramblings look reasonable to the common man, the chantry and nobility.

Even at the end he showed his overwhelming lack of leadership and selfishness by having fellow mages sacrifce themselves (this is what he says though he may have killed them for all we know) and proving that when put in a tough spot even the most senior and relaible mages (circle leader) will turn to foul things when threatend.

He and Anders screwed over the large majority of mages who are not radicals everywhere.

Cool looking guy though.

[Xilizhra]

can't say the same about Orsino and the "I don't believe in blood magic, oh hey look at this ritual I have!"

He says in the templar ending that until that moment, he'd never used blood magic. As he reveals his connection to Quentin at the same time, I see no reason why he'd lie.

[The Baconer]

Xilizhra wrote...

He clearly wrote it before Quentin started getting nasty, given his line about how it was too dangerous and evil to use in the mage ending.

I see, it's in character. In that case, there's no reason for a discussion here.

[Maria Caliban]

He gets less sympathy from me than Meredith. Then again, he's a non-character. Sandal had more conversations with the PC than he did.

[CalJones]

iakus wrote...

I think we never really got to know Orsino (or Meredith) well enough. We don't get to really see either of them until the end of Act 2, and really interact with them until Act 3, when the mage/templar conflict really comes to a head. I would have much preferred to see them earlier in the story, when they're both more...sane...

I would have loved to see Orsino as a kindly, mage slowly cracking under the stress of keeping his people alive (Anders did a much better job of that)

Similarly, I would have liked to see him clash with a harsh but sane Meredith in the first act, a more paranoid and brutal one in Act 2, and a bat-poop crazy one in Act 3. Might have made both of them seem more like people and less like, well, end bosses.

This. Part of what made Loghain such an interesting antagonist was his back story. He's in the game almost from the get-go - you can talk to him at Ostagar, even. You can see him grow more unhappy over each successive cut scene as he's forced down a very destructive path. Not everyone is going to be sympathetic but the potential is there and the pro- and anti-Loghain debate raged for more than a year after Origins' release.

You can't really say the same about Meredith and Orsino. Both have the potential to be interesting characters but we know so little about them. In Orsino's case it's hard to rationalise the seemingly decent but frustrated first enchanter with his condoning Quentin's actions and then whole Harvester debacle later on. It didn't really add-up.

As for Meredith and the lyrium, there was no explanation as to how she came to buy the idol. I know it was a big reveal for the end but I does seem a little odd.

[Xilizhra]

I see, it's in character. In that case, there's no reason for a discussion here.

I'm not using a "character" here.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 mai 2011 - 07:23 .

[Xilizhra]

In Orsino's case it's hard to rationalise the seemingly decent but frustrated first enchanter with his condoning Quentin's actions and then whole Harvester debacle later on. It didn't really add-up.

He doesn't condone Quentin's actions! Not the murderous ones, at any rate; he only hides them to protect the Circle. He was interested in necromancy in general, but not killing people for it.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

can't say the same about Orsino and the "I don't believe in blood magic, oh hey look at this ritual I have!"

He says in the templar ending that until that moment, he'd never used blood magic. As he reveals his connection to Quentin at the same time, I see no reason why he'd lie.

You don't perform a ritual like that out of nowhere, This is not small blood magic, the ritual he does was powerful blood magic, he has done blood magic, he knows about. He is a liar, a monster and a idiot. I feel no sadness for him, unlike the Kinght-Commander who fell to madness and fear.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

In Orsino's case it's hard to rationalise the seemingly decent but frustrated first enchanter with his condoning Quentin's actions and then whole Harvester debacle later on. It didn't really add-up.

He doesn't condone Quentin's actions! Not the murderous ones, at any rate; he only hides them to protect the Circle. He was interested in necromancy in general, but not killing people for it.

He could have killed Quentin, but no he helps Quentin, for christ sakes Quentin used a circle mage for his experiment, if Orsino did not know that then he is not only a idiot, he is a incompentent idiot.