86 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

[Xilizhra]

He could have killed Quentin, but no he helps Quentin, for christ sakes Quentin used a circle mage for his experiment, if Orsino did not know that then he is not only a idiot, he is a incompentent idiot.

Could he? He's a Circle mage; I doubt he's allowed to leave the Gallows very often, if at all. None of the other Circle mages would likely have enough freedom of movement to act as an assassin either, and the templars are an obvious no-go. The best thing he could have done was to drop a hint to Hawke about it, but I doubt he felt sure enough of her allegiances.
It was an error, but an understandable one.

[Xilizhra]

CalJones wrote...

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

Not at the beginning. He was against what it turned out to be.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

He could have killed Quentin, but no he helps Quentin, for christ sakes Quentin used a circle mage for his experiment, if Orsino did not know that then he is not only a idiot, he is a incompentent idiot.

Could he? He's a Circle mage; I doubt he's allowed to leave the Gallows very often, if at all. None of the other Circle mages would likely have enough freedom of movement to act as an assassin either, and the templars are an obvious no-go. The best thing he could have done was to drop a hint to Hawke about it, but I doubt he felt sure enough of her allegiances.
It was an error, but an understandable one.

He's first enchanter, if he can give resources to Quentin, he could have killed him. First Enchanter has more freedom then the other mages, he can start a fricken riot in the middle of Hightown for crying outloud.

[Maria Caliban]

We know he can leave the gallows. He's in hightown at the beginning of Act 3.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

CalJones wrote...

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

Not at the beginning. He was against what it turned out to be.

If he was against it, he would not have helped him at all. He's a bloody monster who is just as responisble for Leandras death as Quentin.

[Xilizhra]

He's first enchanter, if he can give resources to Quentin, he could have killed him. First Enchanter has more freedom then the other mages, he can start a fricken riot in the middle of Hightown for crying outloud.

Smuggling out books vs... what, a book bomb?
In any case, we know he's capable of leaving the Gallows in Act 3, although he may have just snuck out. It's hard to say, since we know little of the political situation. Even so, his movements would be easily tracked, owing to the phylactery; if he was discovered trying to find Quentin, Meredith would probably assume that they were actively in league with each other.

If he was against it, he would not have helped him at all. He's a bloody monster who is just as responisble for Leandras death as Quentin.

Remember the "too evil and dangerous" line.
And perhaps, but personally, I'd rather be responsible for the deaths of a few random women than an entire Circle.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

CalJones wrote...

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

Not at the beginning. He was against what it turned out to be.

So a first enchanter actively keeping maleficars out of notice is completely alright then?

Edit: That makes him the most incompetent character in the game. Well, in competition with Thrask.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 08 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[Xilizhra]

In a situation like Kirkwall's, I can see why he did it.

[llandwynwyn]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

CalJones wrote...

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

Not at the beginning. He was against what it turned out to be.

So a first enchanter actively keeping maleficars out of notice is completely alright then?

He explains he did it because Meredith was so insane she would blame the circle and kill innocent mages for Quentin's actions.
Does that make it ok? No, but what could he do?* As I saw it, he was completely powerless.
 

[Herr Uhl]

Have the blood mage arrested, it is the point of his position. I can see why Meredith hits so hard against the mages when the one that the mages elected as their spokesperson actively hides maleficar.

[TobiTobsen]

Xilizhra wrote...

CalJones wrote...

He loaned him the books - that doesn't say to me that Orsino was against what Quentin was up to.

Not at the beginning. He was against what it turned out to be.

He knew of his studies. He was fascinated by it and loaned him books to further his experiments. What exactly did he thought Quentin was trying to do with blood magic and necromancy? Not many ways this could turn out.
He knew that Quentin murdered woman and covered it up instead of getting rid of Quentin. That's complicity in murder. And not just in one case.

Adding that to the fact that he seems to be pretty incompetent as a Frist Entchanter and he gets a zero percent approval rating of me. If he would have his circle under better control Meredith would just be a mad woman, but he proves her right in her paranoia.

[Nerdage]

Xilizhra wrote...

He clearly wrote it before Quentin started getting nasty, given his line about how it was too dangerous and evil to use in the mage ending.

"Clearly" meaning "there's no evidence to suggest it but it helps your argument so why not?" Besides, the letter indicates Quentin is giving Orsino details on his experiments, isn't Orsino smart enough to add that with 'borrowing books on necromany' and figure out what's going on? He certainly magic'ed up a spell to turn a bunch of corpses into a harvester quickly enough, he clearly knows *some* blood magic.

Maybe part of it is down to him not getting enough screen time, but if we go on what we have Orsino's clearly playing both sides (pro circle and pro blood mage), dispite what he tells you. Speaking of "what he tells you", consider his agenda and who he's talking to. Of course he wants Hawke on-side, so the safe bet is to play the conservative pro cirlce mage, not all pro mages are also pro blood magic after all but even someone who's pro blood magic would likely side with the circle over the templars. Then at the end he wants to claim the moral high-ground, saying he "never believed in blood magic" but he's been "forced to it my Meredith". There's no reason to believe him either way.

Modifié par nerdage, 08 mai 2011 - 08:02 .

[Merchant2006]

Orsino is an utter moron. There I was standing beside him and protecting him when all of a sudden he loses his mind and goes all Harvester on me. Finding out about the Quentin thing just made me even more annoyed at him.

Glad to put the idiot out of his sorry existence. Risking my life for that guy... pssshhht. *clicks fingers*

[Xilizhra]

Animating already dead corpses? That's a spirit spell in Origins. Coming up with more efficient ways to do it, making multiple soldiers who feel no pain and are utterly disposable? There are many benign uses for that sort of thing. Hell, I've advocated melding blood magic and spirit healing for amazing medical advances. There's plenty of directions Quentin could have been going before he went crazy after his wife died.

And I see no signs of his incompetence; he's simply hideously pressured from all sides.

[Xilizhra]

"Clearly" meaning "there's no evidence to suggest it but it helps your argument so why not?" Besides, the letter indicates Quentin is giving Orsino details on his experiments, isn't Orsino smart enough to add that with 'borrowing books on necromany' and figure out what's going on? He certainly magic'ed up a spell to turn a bunch of corpses into a harvester quickly enough, he clearly knows *some* blood magic.

Quentin gave him details at one point. Dialogue between Quentin and Gascard shows that Quentin was working on necromancy before his wife died, but totally lost it thereafter; it could have been, and almost certainly was, written at any point during that time.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Animating already dead corpses? That's a spirit spell in Origins. Coming up with more efficient ways to do it, making multiple soldiers who feel no pain and are utterly disposable? There are many benign uses for that sort of thing. Hell, I've advocated melding blood magic and spirit healing for amazing medical advances. There's plenty of directions Quentin could have been going before he went crazy after his wife died.

Clearly, this will both work and be amazing. Good argument.

And I see no signs of his incompetence; he's simply hideously pressured from all sides.

The first enchanter knowing and condoning blood magic isn't incompetence? Then what is?

[Chuvvy]

"WE'RE NOT ALL BLOOD MAGES!" Mages win the fight. "WE'RE ****ED! BETTER USE BLOOD MAGIC!"

One thing Anders says makes sense "I hate it when mages turn to bloodmagic. There is no surer way to ensure that we will never be free."

[llandwynwyn]

Xilizhra wrote...
Animating already dead corpses?

Yes, necro isn't considered "evil" like blood magic is. Well, it wasn't in Origins.

[TobiTobsen]

Xilizhra wrote...

Animating already dead corpses? That's a spirit spell in Origins. Coming up with more efficient ways to do it, making multiple soldiers who feel no pain and are utterly disposable? There are many benign uses for that sort of thing. Hell, I've advocated melding blood magic and spirit healing for amazing medical advances. There's plenty of directions Quentin could have been going before he went crazy after his wife died.

And I see no signs of his incompetence; he's simply hideously pressured from all sides.

What Quentin is doing is not spirit magic. There is a difference between animating a corpse like a puppet or "reanimate" it by infusing a demon or something else, like Quentin did. Necromany is not in the spirit school, it's blood magic.

[Xilizhra]

The first enchanter knowing and condoning blood magic isn't incompetence? Then what is?

The First Enchanter getting the Circle Annulled.
Meredith is an enemy of the Circle, through her own actions. Where templars and mages can adequately work together, Orsino would never have had to let Quentin run around. It wouldn't work in Kirkwall.

[Xilizhra]

What Quentin is doing is not spirit magic. There is a difference between animating a corpse like a puppet or "reanimate" it by infusing a demon or something else, like Quentin did. Necromany is not in the spirit school, it's blood magic.

But it seems far more efficient and useful here. I assume the "dangerous and evil" part is when it requires actual living sacrifices.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I really find it hard to care for someone who received virtually no character development. But good on you for those who do care.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Edit: That makes him the most incompetent character in the game. Well, in competition with Thrask.

I think he does rank high up there, alongside Meredith and Hawke.