199 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

The ME2 codex says...
The jet of molten metal, accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light, destroys targets by impact force and irresistible heat.

So we'll never know - but we can't ignore the damage potential of the kinetic energy/impact force either.

[Yeti13]

The ship's in ME all have mass accelerator cannons on them and the bigger the ship the bigger the cannon on it. Dreadnoughts can house the largest cannons which are better for ripping shields and armor to shreds on other ships. They also can destroy a planet by themselves. One dreadnought is the equal or better to many ships with the same cost. For example, Sovereign was able to destroy a ton of ships before being brought down.

[Jigero]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Jigero wrote...

If the current SR2 is a Frigate wouldn't that make the SR1 a Corvette?

I imagine the Turians have a Dreadnaught. I doubt the humans and salarians do though

Oh and the Colletor ship was a Dreadnuaght.

Wasn't the Collector ship identified as an "unknown cruiser"? Which would put it one rung below Dreadnaught.

Actually 2 rungs, Battleship, and Battlecruiser are below Dreadnought.  Which doesn't make much sense seeing as how the Collector ship was undoubtably bigger then Sovreign or at the very least about the same size.

[jamesp81]

Thargorichiban wrote...

I'd imagine that due to the nature of ME3 and the Reaper invasion we'll be seeing quite a few dreadnaughts in play. Pretty much every major race has a few to their name.

I think facing off against a Reaper with a dreadnought is a losing proposition.

They're expensive as all hell, and a Reaper can pretty much kill anything it can range it's weapons on.

The key to fighting them in space will be large numbers of smaller ships.  Lots of frigates and fighter squadrons.  All are replaced much more easily, much more difficult to hit, and in large numbers can still bring tremendous firepower to bear.

[Jzadek72]

Jigero wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

Jigero wrote...

If the current SR2 is a Frigate wouldn't that make the SR1 a Corvette?

I imagine the Turians have a Dreadnaught. I doubt the humans and salarians do though

Oh and the Colletor ship was a Dreadnuaght.

Wasn't the Collector ship identified as an "unknown cruiser"? Which would put it one rung below Dreadnaught.

Actually 2 rungs, Battleship, and Battlecruiser are below Dreadnought.  Which doesn't make much sense seeing as how the Collector ship was undoubtably bigger then Sovreign or at the very least about the same size.

No, it wasn't. It was far smaller.

[Someone With Mass]

Dreadnoughts are pretty much giant flying cannons, capable of firing 20 kilogram ferris slugs with twice the force of the nuke dropped on Hiroshima, so a combined force of them should be able to take down at least one Reaper. Even if the Reapers can be up to twice as large as them.

[Nashiktal]

I'm sure we will see some dreadnoughts in ME3. In fact we were supposed to see them during the final battle in Me1, but due to a miscommunication between the modeling team and the writers, we ended up with cruisers instead.

The error was that the modeling team made far more dreadnoughts than humanity would be allowed because of the treaty of farixen. To correct this error and remain consistent with lore, the model design for dreadnoughts instead became cruisers.

The more ya know.


In any case I believe ME3 will show us how absolutely useless dreadnoughts will be in conventional warfare with reapers. They are just simply outclassed in every way by the reapers, from weaponry, defense, and speed. (Speed is what hurts the dreads the most)

I believe the best ships for fighting the reapers will actually be frigates and fighters. Especially if you can equip them with thanix cannons. (Reapers seem to lack anti-fighter countermeasures, and in fact fighters dealt the final blow to sovvy alongside the normandy) However despite being the best for fighting the reapers, I am fairly sure any conventional warfare is useless.

[AlexMBrennan]

Reapers seem to lack anti-fighter countermeasures

How do you know that Sovereign just didn't bother using them because it would have taken the fighters years to do superficial damage to his armour?
Besides, the only reason a frigate dealt the final blow was due to the rule of drama; realistically the Normandy should not have been involved in the battle at all (placing a prototype stealth ship next to a giant fleet kinda defeats the stealth aspect, reducing it to a very, very expensive and ineffective frigate)

[Admoniter]

JunMadine wrote...

The collector vessel is classified as a cruiser by the Normandy SR1s computer. Probably because of comparable sizes.

I would consider the Collector Vessel an absurdly large solid fuel rocket with an equally absurd cannon mounted on the front.

commandoclone87 wrote...
It is in our nature to take the most remote rumour of danger and take the most extreme action, so likely, Humanity will have many more dreadnaughts then the Council allows, all of which will be built in remote colony worlds far from prying eyes and will survive the initial Reaper attacks.

I can see a mission where Shepherd has to comb the galaxy for these missing ships and regroup them at a specific rendezvous point to join the rest of the fleets and hit back at the Reapers.

This would be quite interesting, I would definitely like to see missions based around this concept. Although I disagree as to the importance of dreadnoughts , especially against something like a Reaper. I mean the sheer power they bring to bear is nice, but their speed (or lack thereof) and requiring escorts is crippling when faced against something faster, better armored and at the very least having equal fire power if not greater.

IMO against something like an army of Reapers the best possible use of dreadnoughts would be as makeshift ODPs.

Modifié par Admoniter, 09 mai 2011 - 09:06 .

[WOLF_00]

In mass effect 1, why did council dreadnought failed to launch single attack against Geth or Sovereign? They were prepared for the invasion on the cidetal, but they failed to launch an attack from their supreme gun??
The dreadnought couldn't stand Geth fire and ;result depends most on player action; eventually destroyed, which means the Reapers may finish them in no time

I don't think any of dreadnought built by space species can be effective in facing Reapers fleet. The Reapers can focus their attack at one dreadnaught and destroy them all before they fire single attack.

[Thargorichiban]

Nashiktal wrote...

I'm sure we will see some dreadnoughts in ME3. In fact we were supposed to see them during the final battle in Me1, but due to a miscommunication between the modeling team and the writers, we ended up with cruisers instead.

The error was that the modeling team made far more dreadnoughts than humanity would be allowed because of the treaty of farixen. To correct this error and remain consistent with lore, the model design for dreadnoughts instead became cruisers.

The more ya know.


In any case I believe ME3 will show us how absolutely useless dreadnoughts will be in conventional warfare with reapers. They are just simply outclassed in every way by the reapers, from weaponry, defense, and speed. (Speed is what hurts the dreads the most)

I believe the best ships for fighting the reapers will actually be frigates and fighters. Especially if you can equip them with thanix cannons. (Reapers seem to lack anti-fighter countermeasures, and in fact fighters dealt the final blow to sovvy alongside the normandy) However despite being the best for fighting the reapers, I am fairly sure any conventional warfare is useless.

In the wake of the battle with Sovreign and the invention (reengineering) of Thanix cannons why do you think that dreadnaughts wouldn't be refitted? They are the biggest investment in any of the species' military forces and their respective governments have every reason to protect that.

In the very least I expect that dreadnaughts will be refitted with the largest and most powerful Thanix cannons available. It has already been pointed out in this thread that the increased mass from a larger weapon should be more damaging.

And I can also imagine that the latest defensive technologies would also be integrated.

[Clonedzero]

honestly i dont see the wisdom in dreadnoughts, sure they're massive and destructive. but its a single vessel and for the same amount of resources, money and manpower you could create a small fleet of frigates and crusiers which would be far more useful

personally i'd rather have two dozen cruisers than a single dreadnought. since i think a reaper would actually have an easier time fighting a dreadnought or two than a fleet of cruisers.

i mean look how badass the SR2 is. the thanix cannon on that worked pretty damn well against the collector ship. and it was a fleet of figates and cruisers that killed sovereign. the dreadnought in that battle was fairly useless from what i could tell.

[wulf3n]

 

Codex....
Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

I don't see much use for dreadnoughts in the naval war against the reapers. Even if you could amass enough standard dreadnaughts to challenge a small fleet of reapers, not having any territory to hold means the reapers can just bug out if they need to. Meanwhile the Council/Alliance has to spread it's defense very thin in order to protect it's systems.

With the introduction of the Thanix cannon, Carriers and Fighters are going to be more useful. Just like the history of Earth naval warfare.

[JunMadine]

WOLF_00 wrote...

In mass effect 1, why did council dreadnought failed to launch single attack against Geth or Sovereign? They were prepared for the invasion on the cidetal, but they failed to launch an attack from their supreme gun??
The dreadnought couldn't stand Geth fire and ;result depends most on player action; eventually destroyed, which means the Reapers may finish them in no time

I don't think any of dreadnought built by space species can be effective in facing Reapers fleet. The Reapers can focus their attack at one dreadnaught and destroy them all before they fire single attack.

To answer first question...  The council fled to the dreadnaught and it was probably focusing on leaving the battle to save the council.  Also to use its main weapon would require precise aim and time consuming calculations.

As to the second part you may be right.  I still want to see them.  Its like WWII battleships useless in modern warfare but you still want to see them.

[MikeNoBrake]

Dreadnoughts are developed for long distance battles, but in the Citadel's battle the Sovereign had simply charged the enemies, crushing the ships on it's way...

Modifié par MikeNoBrake, 09 mai 2011 - 02:05 .

[jamesp81]

Nashiktal wrote...

I'm sure we will see some dreadnoughts in ME3. In fact we were supposed to see them during the final battle in Me1, but due to a miscommunication between the modeling team and the writers, we ended up with cruisers instead.

The error was that the modeling team made far more dreadnoughts than humanity would be allowed because of the treaty of farixen. To correct this error and remain consistent with lore, the model design for dreadnoughts instead became cruisers.

The more ya know.


In any case I believe ME3 will show us how absolutely useless dreadnoughts will be in conventional warfare with reapers. They are just simply outclassed in every way by the reapers, from weaponry, defense, and speed. (Speed is what hurts the dreads the most)

I believe the best ships for fighting the reapers will actually be frigates and fighters. Especially if you can equip them with thanix cannons. (Reapers seem to lack anti-fighter countermeasures, and in fact fighters dealt the final blow to sovvy alongside the normandy) However despite being the best for fighting the reapers, I am fairly sure any conventional warfare is useless.

There are also fighters attacking the Reapers landing in London in the ME3 trailer.  I'm not talking about the gunships, either.  ME3 Trailer.  Go to 0:47, two fighters scream by right in front of the camera and go to launching ordnance into the grounded Reaper.

[jamesp81]

wulf3n wrote...

 

Codex....
Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

I don't see much use for dreadnoughts in the naval war against the reapers. Even if you could amass enough standard dreadnaughts to challenge a small fleet of reapers, not having any territory to hold means the reapers can just bug out if they need to. Meanwhile the Council/Alliance has to spread it's defense very thin in order to protect it's systems.

With the introduction of the Thanix cannon, Carriers and Fighters are going to be more useful. Just like the history of Earth naval warfare.

I have a suspicion we might see a "Pearl Harbor" type even where the Reapers face stomp most of the galaxy's dreadnoughts in the opening phases, but this will be a blessing in disguise, as carriers will prove to be the weapon that might effectively oppose them.

[Jigero]

Jzadek72 wrote...

Jigero wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

Jigero wrote...

If the current SR2 is a Frigate wouldn't that make the SR1 a Corvette?

I imagine the Turians have a Dreadnaught. I doubt the humans and salarians do though

Oh and the Colletor ship was a Dreadnuaght.

Wasn't the Collector ship identified as an "unknown cruiser"? Which would put it one rung below Dreadnaught.

Actually 2 rungs, Battleship, and Battlecruiser are below Dreadnought.  Which doesn't make much sense seeing as how the Collector ship was undoubtably bigger then Sovreign or at the very least about the same size.

No, it wasn't. It was far smaller.

and your basing this on what? The thing was ment to hold a hefty portion of the population of earth and a ship class that is only suppose to be slightly bigger then a frigate, is meant to do that?

[Drachasor]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I know that the liquid has mass, i just don't think that the mass has as much of an effect in the damage of the thanix cannon, it's primary damage comes from the heat. making the cannon bigger would incease damage, just not as exponentially as people assume

The "heat" comes from the acceleration of the particles -- e.g. the fact they are moving fast.  It's a lot better if they are moving fast in the same direction rather than in a more random direction.  What makes it so devastating is the high speed of the particles.  You can't seperate the heat out from the speed, nor the effect of it out from the mass.  They are all tied together.

KE = 0.5mv^2

or, more accurately, mc^2 [ γ-1] at relativistic speeds.

More mass is good, double the mass and you double the energy.  Halve the mass and you halve the energy.  Mass matters.

[Thargorichiban]

Drachasor wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

I know that the liquid has mass, i just don't think that the mass has as much of an effect in the damage of the thanix cannon, it's primary damage comes from the heat. making the cannon bigger would incease damage, just not as exponentially as people assume

The "heat" comes from the acceleration of the particles -- e.g. the fact they are moving fast.  It's a lot better if they are moving fast in the same direction rather than in a more random direction.  What makes it so devastating is the high speed of the particles.  You can't seperate the heat out from the speed, nor the effect of it out from the mass.  They are all tied together.

KE = 0.5mv^2

or, more accurately, mc^2 [ γ-1] at relativistic speeds.

More mass is good, double the mass and you double the energy.  Halve the mass and you halve the energy.  Mass matters.

So this seems to mean that a Thanix cannon (dreadnaught size) of around half a kilometer in length would be much, much more effective than anything the Normandy's Thanix cannons could do.

Heck it would be outright frightening to see one that big fire. Weren't the Thanix cannons in Sovereign part of it's tentacles? If that is the case conceiveably a dreadnaught could have a much higher yielding cannon.

[Seboist]

If the Destiny Ascension's performance in ME1's end is anything to go by, dreadnoughts are big for nothings.

[Reapinger]

The Destiny Ascension was being used to protect the council, rather than shoot. We have no idea it's actual capabilities and I would call Dreadnoughts shield crackers. Unless thousands of frigates shot at the same spot in a kinetic barrier, the power is not equaled but rather spread out across the barrier--doing less damage. My two cents.

[TheRevanchist]

Seboist wrote...

If the Destiny Ascension's performance in ME1's end is anything to go by, dreadnoughts are big for nothings.

 I'm a little miffed about how everyone assumes the Destiny Ascension droped the ball. To be fair...Dreadnaughts are designed for battles ranging for thousands of kilometers, as such most of their weaponry is built with that concept in mind. The final battle of ME1 was what is called "knife-fight" ranges which Dreadnaughts are simply not equiped to deal with. Considering the massive amounts of force arrayed against it and considering the lack of close range weaponry the Destiny Ascension's GUARDIAN systems performed above and beyond what is expected in such a situation since that system exsists to mainly destroy incoming projectiles and to act as anti-fighter countermeasures. Also keep in mind the longer the GUARDIAN system is active the less accurate it becomes and eventually the guns begin to burn out. The Destiny Ascension did not use it's primary weapons because it never had the chance to use those weapons as Nazara and the Geth closed the gap far too quickly for them to be used...and thus had to rely entirely on their GUARDIAN system for survival which in a prolonged battle becomes utterly useless thus making the ship using it virtually defenceless.

I don't think it's entierly fair to say the Destiny Ascension is major suxxzor when it was stuck in pretty much the exact oppisite situation it was designed for. Considering how long the Destiny Ascension lasted in that situation before possible reinforcements tells me just how combat capable that warship is...because if their simple GUARDIAN system kept them alive for such an extended period against such overwhelming numbers then I can hardly imagine the power the Destiny Ascension can bring to bear when in proper conditions to use it's primary weapons and defences. Even if you disregard this entire post the Destiny Ascension is the pillar of morale for the entire Citadal Fleet...they believe as long as they have that warship they are unstoppable, and in war mind-set is half the battle.

[Thargorichiban]

That seems like a pretty valid point kylecouch.

For those of us that rescued the Destiny Ascension I'd really like to see it get featured in at least one scene so we can see how battle-ready it really is. It might make a really awesome moment.