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[wulf3n]

Someone With Mass wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
And I think that the Thanix might give the fighters one good chance at dealing some damage before they have to discharge their cores, since parts of the Thanix are powered by the mass effect core itself.

That's just pure speculation.

What, that the Thanix is powered by the ships eezo core?

Nope, that's what suspending the alloy inside the cannon.

No, that it can only handle 1 shot. We don't know enough about the thanix cannon to make the assumption that it can take 1 shot or 1000 shots.

[aTrueFool]

wulf3n wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
And I think that the Thanix might give the fighters one good chance at dealing some damage before they have to discharge their cores, since parts of the Thanix are powered by the mass effect core itself.

That's just pure speculation.

What, that the Thanix is powered by the ships eezo core?

Nope, that's what suspending the alloy inside the cannon.

No, that it can only handle 1 shot. We don't know enough about the thanix cannon to make the assumption that it can take 1 shot or 1000 shots.

The Thanix can reliably fire every 5 seconds while a dreadnaught's main gun can fire every 2 seconds.
So it seems there could be an issue with power draw or maybe heat build up.

[Someone With Mass]

Actually, the Thanix can only fire every fifteen seconds, judging by the Codex reader.

[aTrueFool]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Actually, the Thanix can only fire every fifteen seconds, judging by the Codex reader.

I was just going off the codex entry in the wiki, but ether way it has a slower rate of fire.

[Ship.wreck_]

why is this a discussion about the thanix cannon?

[aTrueFool]

Ship.wreck wrote...

why is this a discussion about the thanix cannon?

The thanix allows fighters and frigates to have firepower that rivals cruisers. Some argue that
this will help carriers dominate space combat and reduce dreadnaughts importance.


 

[Ship.wreck_]

aTrueFool wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

why is this a discussion about the thanix cannon?

The thanix allows fighters and frigates to have firepower that rivals cruisers. Some argue that
this will help carriers dominate space combat and reduce dreadnaughts importance.
 

I see, gone the way of the battleship. So sad...

But the SR1 had the firepower to destroy what's his name... the Reaper Dreadnught  thing. So is it that big of a development? Also, please don't tell me cruisers are bigger than dreadnaughts.

For the record, again: SR2 is too damn big to be a frigate...

[008Zulu]

aTrueFool wrote...

008Zulu wrote...


Cain fires a 5 kilo slug, not sure of the velocity.

I think the Cain fires a 25 gram(.025 kilo) slug at 5km/s which is 0.0016% the speed of light.
If my maths is right, a broadside accelerator firing a 25 gram slug at the same velocity as the
main gun would be the same as a million Cains.

That would be something to see.

Main gun fires at 4km/s. Cain fires at 5km/s. Maybe Cain has to fire faster to account for atmospheric resistance.

Still, would be nice to see a truly epic space battle.

[aTrueFool]

Ship.wreck wrote...


I see, gone the way of the battleship. So sad...

But the SR1 had the firepower to destroy what's his name... the Reaper Dreadnught  thing. So is it that big of a development? Also, please don't tell me cruisers are bigger than dreadnaughts.

The development is a Thanix mounted on one man craft can have the same destructive power as
a mass accelerator taking 90% length of a cruiser. Will it change space combat? Maybe, I don't know.

Also I wasn't saying that a cruieser is bigger than a dreadnaught. Just that smaller starships can have their
firepower increased to rival larger ones.

For the record, again: SR2 is too damn big to be a frigate...

Maybe call it a Battlefrigate or Frigatecruiser. 

[Someone With Mass]

The SR2 is too small to be called a cruiser, though, because the Collector ship is classified as a cruiser, and that thing is massive.

[aTrueFool]

008Zulu wrote...

aTrueFool wrote...

008Zulu wrote...


Cain fires a 5 kilo slug, not sure of the velocity.

I think the Cain fires a 25 gram(.025 kilo) slug at 5km/s which is 0.0016% the speed of light.
If my maths is right, a broadside accelerator firing a 25 gram slug at the same velocity as the
main gun would be the same as a million Cains.

That would be something to see.

Main gun fires at 4km/s. Cain fires at 5km/s. Maybe Cain has to fire faster to account for atmospheric resistance.

Still, would be nice to see a truly epic space battle.

The speed of light is 299 792 458 m/s.

The Everest-class main gun accelerates its slug to1.3% light speed which is 3 897 301 m/s.

Thats a little more than 4km/s.

[jamesp81]

Ship.wreck wrote...

JunMadine wrote...

In all of the mass effect media we have not seen any dreadnaughts with the exception of the destiny ascension and the reapers I guess.  Will we see the various species versions of this ship class?

And on an unrelated note the Normandy sr2 still counts as a frigate right even though it is twice the size as the sr1.

I would hope so. I'm not sure if I would expect to though. As we've seen so far there are almost no space combat scenes. But on the other hand this next game is going to involve a full scale reaper invasion so there would have to be a lot of space combat to take care of that. So it would make sense for there to be alot more of it in the next game. What I've been waiting for all along is Shipboard combat! I mean a hostile boarding of an enemy vessel. It was totally stupid when that happend in ME2 and instead of making it a kick ass playable combat mission your squad gets magiced off the boat conveniently, and the supposedly elite Cerberus crew all of a sudden turn into a bunch of useless push overs. For God's sake, they didn't kill a single Collector!!! Anyway, I hope we get some of that in ME3, and get to see some epic space battles like a bigger version of the end of ME. And I think it would be really cool to have a mission on the surface of a planet where there's a huge battle being fought in orbit, and you can constantly see the battle raging in the sky...

As for the SR2, I would bump it up to Cruiser at least, possibly Destroyer. It's just too damn big to still be called a Frigate. I think the SR2 sucks, its all ginormous and overdone, and looks more like a cruise ship than a war ship. And the explanation is always, Oh it's private sector now, we spend alot more money and expect alot better amenities. Sorry but no way. No one spends more money making a war anything than a governments Department of Defence (You know, whatever the Alliance/Citadel/Turian version of DoD is). Companies need to make a profit. There's no direct profit in war, you spend a million dollars making a cruise missile, launch it at somebody and what's your return? A dozen dead bodies or so, no money. Furthermore only militaries strictly controll their technology and equipage. Hell look at contractors in Iraq! They can't even get humvies, they just bolt a cheap assed old russian machine gun to whatever truck they can get their hands on. They might have the money to buy whatever they want, but the best military hardware just isn't for sale in the first place, nor are the components to make it.

Ok so maybe Cerberus does have some old military connections because they used to be an Aliance version of the CIA. But they uber went rogue, no faster way in the galaxy to make every military official you ever knew burn that bridge in a hurry! I seriously doubt that with their private staus AND rogue status they could ever have the means of making their own version of the most technologically advanced space going war ship ever made, let alone out do it. But even IF they could: it's just dumb that they made it way bigger and have a bunch of luxuries onboard. Even if it is private sector it's still supposed to be a fighting ship, and private sector or not, you just don't waste a bunch of space energy and resources on cushiness when your job is to make war.

Anyway, my opinion of the SR2 aside, it's just too big to be a Frigate.

I don't think the SR2 is big enough to be a cruiser.  The Collector Ship was a cruiser, as was most of the Alliance ships in the space battle at the end of ME1, all of which dwarfed the SR1.

I think destroyer is probably a pretty accurate term for SR2.

[jamesp81]

008Zulu wrote...

aTrueFool wrote...

008Zulu wrote...


Cain fires a 5 kilo slug, not sure of the velocity.

I think the Cain fires a 25 gram(.025 kilo) slug at 5km/s which is 0.0016% the speed of light.
If my maths is right, a broadside accelerator firing a 25 gram slug at the same velocity as the
main gun would be the same as a million Cains.

That would be something to see.

Main gun fires at 4km/s. Cain fires at 5km/s. Maybe Cain has to fire faster to account for atmospheric resistance.

Still, would be nice to see a truly epic space battle.

The main gun of a dreadnought firest at 4025 km/s.

[Moiaussi]

For whatever reason, the thanix is still portrayed as short range. Even is there are issues with scaling it up too far, it might be possible to use them to supplant at least some of the guardian lasers on capital ships. It also might be possible to upgrade the range on a capital ship by way of better focusing. The captial ship's ability to generate stronger ME fields might be usable to better channel the beam. Better coherrance equals longer range. Even if the power is kept identical, longer range wins battles. And it is win/win, since the DN retains its conventional main gun.

[JunMadine]

Maybe the thanix will result in a new ship or fighter class. Something for hard and fast attacks. Maybe even space stations can mount them.

Modifié par JunMadine, 15 mai 2011 - 02:40 .

[008Zulu]

aTrueFool wrote...

The speed of light is 299 792 458 m/s.

The Everest-class main gun accelerates its slug to1.3% light speed which is 3 897 301 m/s.

Thats a little more than 4km/s.

Only 25km more.

[Nashiktal]

Just to clarify the SR2 is considered a "heavy" frigate. Its higher up on the frigate line while still not a cruiser.

Also with what little information we have, the SR1 was only able to deal the final blow to sovvy because his barriers fell. So unless we can come up with some way to disable reaper cores, thats not a factor at the moment.

[aTrueFool]

008Zulu wrote...

aTrueFool wrote...

The speed of light is 299 792 458 m/s.

The Everest-class main gun accelerates its slug to1.3% light speed which is 3 897 301 m/s.

Thats a little more than 4km/s.

Only 25km more.

try 3872km more.

[Ship.wreck_]

[quote]aTrueFool wrote...

[quote]Ship.wreck wrote...


I see, gone the way of the battleship. So sad...

But the SR1 had the firepower to destroy what's his name... the Reaper Dreadnught  thing. So is it that big of a development? Also, please don't tell me cruisers are bigger than dreadnaughts.[/quote]


The development is a Thanix mounted on one man craft can have the same destructive power as
a mass accelerator taking 90% length of a cruiser. Will it change space combat? Maybe, I don't know.

Also I wasn't saying that a cruieser is bigger than a dreadnaught. Just that smaller starships can have their
firepower increased to rival larger ones.
[/quote]

Well good because I asked you not to say that,  I actually wasn't sure if they were. But hey, now that all the smaller ships can have Thanix cannons, wont they just make a bunch of giganticer Thanix cannons for the bigger ships, so now everyone has increased firepower but relative to each other all classes remain the same.

[quote]aTrueFool wrote...
[quote]Ship.wreck wrote...
For the record, again: SR2 is too damn big to be a frigate...[/quote]

Maybe call it a Battlefrigate or Frigatecruiser. 
[/quote]
[/quote]

Hmmm.... see bottom...

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

The SR2 is too small to be called a cruiser, though, because the Collector ship is classified as a cruiser, and that thing is massive. [/quote]


[quote]jamesp81 wrote...
I don't think the SR2 is big enough to be a cruiser.  The Collector Ship was a cruiser, as was most of the Alliance ships in the space battle at the end of ME1, all of which dwarfed the SR1.

I think destroyer is probably a pretty accurate term for SR2.[/quote]

Awwww! I forgot that the collector vessel was a cruiser  I saw that the ME's future space version of a Frigate was perfectly analogus to todays sea-going version of a Frigate, and I assumed that the other classes of vessel would be equally analogus to todays versions.

Which would make Frigates the smallest, Cruisers second smallest, Destroyers third, then Dreadnaughts would be analogus to our Battleships and the largest being Carriers, just like our... Carriers. But I realize now they mixed it up significantly.

On a side note where's the ME version of an Amphibious Assault Vessel? A big space ship that deploys a crapload of dropships for major troop invasions of planets? We saw Saren use his Reaper (even though the ownership was a little reversed haha) for this purpose in ME but it was stated explicitly that no other ship as large could do that. So where is the ship designed as a platform from which to invade planets?

Do we even have a ME example of a Destroyer? Although I have a hard time thinking of SR2 as a Destroyer. Destroyers I think of as basically mini battleships, like, "Hey, lets slap as much fire power as we possibly can on this tin can and destroy some sh*t!" And I guess that is what they ended up doing with SR2, but it rarely engages in ship to ship combat or planetary bombardments, it mostly just ferrys around Shepard and his team.

I guess Frigate like in use, but Destroyer like in function. Relative to todays classes of Frigate, Cruiser and Destroyer SR2 is most similar to Cruisers. But that doesn't fly in ME so I guess Destroyer is the second most logical label for it....

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 16 mai 2011 - 05:11 .

[aTrueFool]

Ship.wreck wrote...


Well good because I asked you not to say that,  I actually wasn't sure if they were. But hey, now that all the smaller ships can have Thanix cannons, wont they just make a bunch of giganticer Thanix cannons for the bigger ships, so now everyone has increased firepower but relative to each other all classes remain the same.

That depends on how big the mass effect core would need to be to power a dreadnaught's Thanix cannon.

[008Zulu]

aTrueFool wrote...
try 3872km more.

The source material says Cain is 5km/s. The Dreadnought main gun is 4025km/s.

[aTrueFool]

008Zulu wrote...

aTrueFool wrote...
try 3872km more.

The source material says Cain is 5km/s. The Dreadnought main gun is 4025km/s.

Yeah I saw that after I did the math. I blame rounding.

[KillaKow]

Nashiktal wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

I'll also take this oppurtunity to say I was wrong on the main use of fighters. Their job is to take down the shielding so that larger ships can take them down. They apparently aren't equipped with weaponry strong enough to do major damage to ship hulls.

Tell that to the two fighters that helped to deal the final blow to sovvy. 

Edit: Er, of course that was after sovvy's barrier was down.

I swear those are frigates alongside the Normandy...

The thing is though; fighters drop the shields on the capital ships by launching these,which drop the ship's shields by punching through thevshields and destroying the emitters. So the same weapons could easily be used
to target bridges/engines/heat sinks/poorly shielded thermal exhaust ports/other weak points for massive damage.

In
fact, that's one of the two major ways that aircraft were so deadly
against surface ships during World War 2. While you did have torpedo
bombers targeting the hull, you also had dive bombers that came from
above, diving through the ship's aa screen and hitting vulnerable areas
with precision bomb strikes.

I don't see why this wouldn't work
against a capital ship in the ME universe, or a Reaper for that matter. I
think a huge point that people are missing here is that the majority of
the fighting will (and should to humanity’s advantage) be done at
"knife fight" range around relays and planets, as they are going to be
the targets that the Reapers are attacking. This is going to make
dreadnaughts even less effective and smaller craft like fighters and
frigates even more valuable because they can get in under the Reapers'
defenses.

Modifié par KillaKow, 16 mai 2011 - 09:01 .

[Someone With Mass]

Are we just going to assume that the Reapers don't have some form of GARDIAN lasers, or can't just swat the ships that tries to get close to it, considering that they have far more mobility than other ships?

[KillaKow]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Are we just going to assume that the Reapers don't have some form of GARDIAN lasers, or can't just swat the ships that tries to get close to it, considering that they have far more mobility than other ships?

Well we're not assuming they don't, but having GUARDIAN lasers =/= invulnerable to fighter attack. And as I was saying mobility matters little when they have to commit to a "knife fight" engagement to acheive thier objective.

And if we're just going by the evidence from the game itself, when Soviergn was at point blank, closer than "knife fight" range with the Alliance ships, it only broke out its beam cannon, which did not traverse that quickly. I don't think that thing would be able to hit fighters once they got in close.

Based on the fact that it was a. in a desperate "plan B" situation, b. at point blank range with the Alliance ships, and c. undamaged at that point during the battle, it would have no reason to not use all of its weapons, which would mean that that was the only weapon it had. If it did have a ton of advanced GUARDIAN lasers as you suggest, would it not have been pounding the Alliance ships with them during that entire battle?

So from at least one standpoint it seems that, no, Reapers don't have any GUARDIAN lasers.