18 réponses à ce sujet

[telephasic]

Trap-making seems to be the crafting skill you really need to make some sacrifices to use.  And I'm saying this playing a rogue. 

As a PC, you get the free first rank of poison making.  In the short term your focus is likely on maximizing coercion and combat training, meaning you don't have "free" skills for quite awhile, unless you want to make a major sacrifice. 

Liliana comes into the party with two ranks in stealing, but no ranks in trap-making. 

And by the time I got Zeveran, I saw he had maximised poision-making, but zip when it came to trap-making. 

So, I'm up to level 13 or so now, and I've finally took the first rank of trap-making.  I know you can have someone in camp do the crafting of more advanced traps, and set anything with one rank, but it annoys me that none of the NPCs will make the best traps until the game is virtually over.  I'm thinking my next rogue might be a "purist" who won't do much with combat training until the endgame, and focus on maxing out all rogue talents with just a bit of DW on the side.  I'll need good stealth to set the traps regardless. 

What have people found about the utility of traps in combat?  

[WickedAwesome]

You're going to have to need a trap maker if you want to be a trap layer; it's much cheaper, so you don't have to worry about wasting them; that's all the advice I have. I want to try it out, too.

[cremo]

What would be interesting to know is what exactly are the impact of Coercion, Lockping and Cunning per se..



I mean: with my 2h warrior with cunning just raised to the minimum required to get to 4th level coercion (16-17?) i've never failed a persuade/intimidate check so far.. so I've been wondering if you need to get level 4 lockpick/stealing/coercion if you plan to raise cunning to 30ish-40ish.. maybe if you have that high cunning you don't need those (and that would be a huge save of skill/talent points).. But sadly the game has nowhere a manual that explains such things witha bit of detail (the manual is ridicolous, while the in-game tooltip are totally vague with things like "you deal moderate damage with this ability": what the hell is "moderate" damage ?)

[cooldevo]

I used the trapping crafting skill a bit (for 2 quests in Lothering for example), but mostly what I use it for on my rogue is for trap detection. The higher it is, the further away they can detect a trap from the player. And I'm not sure if it is true or not, but it feels like it can detect them a lot quicker too.



I haven't found a very "good" use for them other than maybe to freeze someone in place which mage spells can do just as easily and doesn't cost money for the trap or parts. There is one achievement you get for crafting traps I think... as well.

[Sarevok Anchev]

For the "hardest" chests you will need Lvl. 4 abd about 28-30 Cunning

[19percent]

There's an achievement for crafting anything, and two achievements for setting traps (I think they might be PC only?). However mage glyphs count as traps so I got both achievements just by using Glyph of Paralysis my first playthrough. Which is lame.



Anyway on my new rogue character I'm skipping coercion and getting poison/trap making.

[-XM-]

You only need one point in poison making to use poisons and bombs. You can delegate the actual crafting to another character. In combat, it's rather useless. Personally I was using the cheap stun poison rather than damage ones most of the time, so I didn't even have to use the other characters for it a lot. You could just respec one of the henchmen rogues to use poison making (esp if you are dealing with traps yourself). The trick with the limited skill points is to decide what to delegate to henchmen.

For chests it depends on the difficulty. The highest difficulty ones require a check of 60 against 10*deft-hands rank + (cunning-10). I went with 40 cunning (with items) and 3 ranks in the deft hands line myself, and this allows you to open all locks that don't require a key. If you plan on lower or higher cunning, adjust your number of talents in the deft hands line accordingly.

For a stealthy/thief type of rogue you really want survival for the radar functionality it adds. This allows for planning, if you enjoy that rather than rushing blind into a room. It also gives a total of 25% nature resist and some physical resist, higher trap making means you see traps ahead of time even while running with momentum on. It's also cheaper to make them than buy them, and they are quite nice in large battles if you like doing some planning or soloing. The stun/slow/grease ones are my favourites.

You can buy a total of 3 skill point books, I had an extra one from my preorder bonus (memory ring), so at level 23 when I finished I had max combat, max survival, max traps, 1 in poison making, 1 in pickpocket, and 3(?) in coercion. I went for combat training and 2 in coercion first, then started leveling traps and survival in parallel, when I got 2 in each I added one point for pickpocket. I wasn't RPing a thug type thief so I didn't use the stealing much, but I guess the money adds up over time. I made up for only one rank by always stealing stealthed, but then again it meant I could not steal in combat. I only failed two persuade (that I know of) with 2 in coercion. One was rather minor. The other cost me a potential 15g and a dagger. I won't spoil it but there's a quest where you can buy somthing for 50g and are meant to sell it for 50g. With persuade you can lower the buy price and increase the sell price, thereby making a nice profit. I was able to buy for 40 and sell for 60, but failed the check to sell for 75g (apparently he gives you a dagger as well, although not a great one).

Hope that helps, I would say just experiment and respec your character as needed once you have a feel for how it plays (download one of the respec mods).

[Brian The Grey]

Wait, what determines your ability to spot traps?  (and disarm them)

My rogue's cunning is 25
and has the 2nd trap skill -
(Improved Trap-Making)


Does anything else factor into trap detection/disarming?

Modifié par Brian The Grey, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:19 .

[cremo]

Thanks much XM for your cunning/deft hands explaination.. really crystal clear.. I guess that's the same mechanism that works for cunning/coercion (as well as str/coercion) and cunning/stealing..

What about sneaking instead? I guess it's just related to skill and not to attributes.



Anyway traps are really good imho.. Of course i guess they are not "indispensable".. but just having someone "paralyzed" with a claw trap for some moments it's great (considering how cheap it is): yes, your mage could do it to, but he can paralyze 1.. while you can put how many traps you want. Plus.. it's just great fun if, like me, you like planning battles.

[TheGreenLion]

That's pretty much the gist of it, running your enemies through a gauntlet of traps would lower the neccesity of other CCing stuff, like needing a mage with CoC or something of that nature to deal with large groups, assuming you place your traps well. They would at the very least be softened by damaging traps and of course being stuck in a immobilizing trap would be a good way to deal with pesky mages if ya don't use the rest of your arsenal to take them out of the fight to begin with.



Can bosses be trapped effectively? I think probably so, I've only ever put one point into trap making for the Lothering side quest myself. Might be a fantastic way to remove mages from your party if you find them to be "too useful".

[pmorales]

Well i use the traps when i went through the back alley wars in denerim. The big claw traps and shrapnel traps killed 2 or 3 guys before they even got to my players. Here you are over run by about 8 to 12 guys. I laid like 6 to 8 traps in a row in front of my guys. I sent morrigan out to activate them to charge. I ran her back next to my guys. as the charged forward KABOOM 2 to 4 got kocked out and at the same time i threw 3 to 4 bombs at them. You can do this buy purchasing differnet ones. so i had fire, freezing, electric, venom, fleshrot. what i would do is throw one pause go to the next one get it ready unpause throw it pause again etc etc. Like thiss you get to throw 4 or 5 bombs one after the other. after all this i sent one guy aftr the archers and killed the rest.

[pmorales]

Well i use the traps when i went through the back alley wars in denerim. The big claw traps and shrapnel traps killed 2 or 3 guys before they even got to my players. Here you are over run by about 8 to 12 guys. I laid like 6 to 8 traps in a row in front of my guys. I sent morrigan out to activate them to charge. I ran her back next to my guys. as the charged forward KABOOM 2 to 4 got kocked out and at the same time i threw 3 to 4 bombs at them. You can do this buy purchasing differnet ones. so i had fire, freezing, electric, venom, fleshrot. what i would do is throw one pause go to the next one get it ready unpause throw it pause again etc etc. Like thiss you get to throw 4 or 5 bombs one after the other. after all this i sent one guy aftr the archers and killed the rest.

Modifié par pmorales, 19 novembre 2009 - 07:33 .

[RazorrX]

Traps are fun. In Redcliff you can run down (leave your guys up top ranging) and lay a whole nest of traps. Then run back up for last wave, when the guy calls you to go down and save the militia.... all the baddies are almost dead in the first wave, and the rest (depending on traps, etc.) are not a big deal either. I also use them in choke points, back alleys, etc.

[Sarevok Anchev]

-XM- wrote...

... I only failed two persuade (that I know of) with 2 in coercion. One was rather minor. The other cost me a potential 15g and a dagger. I won't spoil it but there's a quest where you can buy somthing for 50g and are meant to sell it for 50g. With persuade you can lower the buy price and increase the sell price, thereby making a nice profit. I was able to buy for 40 and sell for 60, but failed the check to sell for 75g (apparently he gives you a dagger as well, although not a great one)....

I know what you mean *g
But instead of walking the whole way to the other person and sell it, i just killed the first trader( criminal type) and
took the 20 gold from his cold body ^^

[Sarevok Anchev]

Brian The Grey wrote...

Wait, what determines your ability to spot traps?  (and disarm them)

My rogue's cunning is 25
and has the 2nd trap skill -
(Improved Trap-Making)


Does anything else factor into trap detection/disarming?

The trap making skill determines with level 2 and 4 how far you can spot traps.

[dannythefool]

You do realise, of course, that if you don't kill him, you can go back to the initial contact after delivering the product...

[Sarevok Anchev]

dannythefool wrote...

You do realise, of course, that if you don't kill him, you can go back to the initial contact after delivering the product...

... and STILL get the 20g on top of it?

DOH!  °-°

Modifié par Sarevok Anchev, 20 novembre 2009 - 10:53 .

[FRZN]

19percent wrote...
 However mage glyphs count as traps so I got both achievements just by using Glyph of Paralysis my first playthrough. Which is lame..

you can disarm glyphs too

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

The trap making skill determines with level 2 and 4 how far you can spot traps.

it appears that's actually not true

Discobird wrote...
IV: TRAPS
This information comes from sys_traps_h.nss, placeable_h.nss, and GetDisableDeviceLevel() in core_h.nss.

Trap
disarming is just like lockpicking; the game calculates a disarm score
using the exact same formula it uses to calculate your lockpicking
score. It then compares this to the trap's disarm difficulty. If your
disarm score >= the disarm difficulty, the trap is succesfully
disarmed; otherwise it is not. There's one exception: you can always
succesfully disarm your own traps.

Trap detection works like
this: the game periodically checks for hidden enemy traps within a
spherical volume with radius 10m + 1m per lockpicking rank (at Device
Mastery this is a 14m radius). Note that the trap-making skill
apparently does NOT increase your detection radius, despite what the
tooltip says. For each hidden enemy trap within that volume, the game
checks the player's disarm score (see paragraph above for how to
calculate it) against the trap's detection difficulty. If this score
>= the trap's detection difficulty, the player detects it; otherwise
the player does not.

Minor note: for detection purposes only,
the player gets a +10 bonus to his disarm score if he is under the
effect EFFECT_TYPE_TRAP_DETECTION_BONUS. I have no idea what, if
anything, grants this effect. It doesn't seem like the trap-making
skills or lockpicking talents grant this effect, nor do any other
spells or talents. Maybe it's just unused.

Notice that a trap's
detection difficulty and disarm difficulty are different variables.
This explains why you can sometimes detect a trap but fail to disarm it.

How
difficult are traps to disarm or detect? Again, traps.xls gives us a
hint. It has a sheet called trap_difficulty that contains a table
identical to the one copied above for locks. So I would tentatively say
that a disarm/lockpicking score of 60 will enable you to detect and
disarm every trap that can be detected and disarmed. Again, player
feedback would be appreciated.

Modifié par FRZN, 20 novembre 2009 - 11:04 .

[InfiniteAvenger]

TheGreenLion wrote...

That's pretty much the gist of it, running your enemies through a gauntlet of traps would lower the neccesity of other CCing stuff, like needing a mage with CoC or something of that nature to deal with large groups, assuming you place your traps well. They would at the very least be softened by damaging traps and of course being stuck in a immobilizing trap would be a good way to deal with pesky mages if ya don't use the rest of your arsenal to take them out of the fight to begin with.<br />
<br />
Can bosses be trapped effectively? I think probably so, I've only ever put one point into trap making for the Lothering side quest myself. Might be a fantastic way to remove mages from your party if you find them to be "too useful".

Speaking of the Lothering Side Quest "Traps are a girls best friend", I found out today that the quest is repeatable.  Just talk to her again (sometimes takes 2-3 clicks to get her to respond other than chat the first time after and then she is consistent thereafter) she will give you the same reward (XP and 50s) each time.

I actually went to the poison quest dude inside the Inn, who has infinite Trap Triggers, and did like 5 stacks of 99 Spring Traps for her.  It leveled me from level 10.1 to 12.3 approx and the money was good, too.  This allowed me to get Morrigan up to level 12 to get Master Herbalist and have the funds needed as well to start making and selling Potent Lyrium potions for profit.

So, in a nutshell, Traps are good for both gameplay and ingame profit and leveling as well.  All of which is standard economy and crafting within the game.  I love it!