109 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

You can let Isolde live, definitely the most evil option in the game.

[menasure]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I got alistair to like -70 and he still dont betray me or leave me

well his mandatory nude performances in game are funny but yeah i wanted to kick that guy after 5 minutes of gameplay *sigh*

i am not even sure my evil gameplay can end up with a desirable "happy" evil end  ...  think it is going to be a "nightmare" of a good ending which i won t like  :S but i guess i have plenty of time left to find that out though

[MFCell]

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Whilst I do not at all intend to pick your post apart sentence by sentence, I will vaguely state that my experiences in the game, having beaten it with several charachters, are quite opposite.

I think people's real complaint, or perhaps a better word is qualm, is that Ferelden offers so much roleplaying, that when the options you conceive mentally are not possible, it is a bit disheartening.   People seem bent on claiming the power of the Old God for themselves, some what disregarding that, in a biological sense, you really did very close to just that, and that sadly(because we have to wait to get more story), your truely "evil" ending is an entire game, Dragon Age:Rebirth.

Modifié par MFCell, 19 novembre 2009 - 05:38 .

[Taleroth]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

You can let Isolde live, definitely the most evil option in the game.

But the way she says TEEAGAN.  So hot.  The world should hear that.

[Syrellaris]

Taleroth wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

Yes actually I did, but none of those options influence ****. A demon possesses a child in shales storyline, you get a small piece of loot. great. you can let a desire demon keep a templar in the mage tower, consequences? none.  In orzammar deep roads, you can restitch a evil demon and opt to let him live. Again, no consequences.

Same with the werewolves. Its only swiftrunner that is tied to vengeance, the lady of the forest and the rest completely agree the curse lasted to long. If done right, you get the werewolves to team up with you if the curse isnt broken, but thats hardly a real consequence as they arent evil.

[KalosCast]

Did you notice how Dragon Age doesn't have a Karma Meter like the other Bioware games? Dragon Age is about decisions, not about a magic sliding scale of Divine Benevolence vs Cartoonish Villainy.

For example, what's the "good" decision for who to rule Orzammar? What's the Evil one? Or for the anvil decision, is depriving the dwarves of the one thing that would allow them to finally start living without the constant threat of being gutted by darkspawn really that good? Conversely, is allowing something to be used merely because the amoral have the potential to abuse it really that evil?

Or in the case of the mage tower, it is theoretically possible that excluding the tranquil, every single mage in the tower was either a Blood Mage or an Abomination where the demon is lying in wait for the right time to emerge.. so is sparing them actually good? It's not evil, but is it actually good? Is making sure that superhuman creatures who can bend reality to their will are no longer a threat by cleansing the tower and rebuilding the circle from scratch really that evil?

To paraphrase a Zero Punctuation video: a truly evil character would spend their time doing deeds that the people think are good so they can gradually build up a power base, then when nobody can oppose them BAM! off-world slavery.

The game isn't about "good and evil" you ARE the hero in this game whether you like it or not. It's about your decisions having realistic outcomes. To quote the tagline OF THE GAME ITSELF "not every hero is pure"

Modifié par KalosCast, 19 novembre 2009 - 05:42 .

[Flamin Jesus]

MFCell wrote...

I think people's real complaint, or perhaps a better word is qualm, is that Ferelden offers so much roleplaying, that when the options you conceive mentally are not possible, it is a bit disheartening. 

I like the game, love it in fact, but I have to say that there really isn't TOO much roleplaying involved, it's all still extremely railroaded, you may have the option to do some things differently, but in the end you always get to the same point.

That's not a complaint though, it's still just a CRPG and no P&P or world simulation, and as such it's just not possible to offer real freedom or consider ALL the consequences of an action.
I consider it more an interactive movie.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

You can let Isolde live, definitely the most evil option in the game.

But the way she says TEEAGAN.  So hot.  The world should hear that.

I'm sorry, evil I can forgive, but the stupidity!
No, she has to die, so has her son, it's the only way to save the gene pool.

[Taleroth]

Syrellaris wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

Yes actually I did, but none of those options influence ****. A demon possesses a child in shales storyline, you get a small piece of loot. great. you can let a desire demon keep a templar in the mage tower, consequences? none.  In orzammar deep roads, you can restitch a evil demon and opt to let him live. Again, no consequences.

Same with the werewolves. Its only swiftrunner that is tied to vengeance, the lady of the forest and the rest completely agree the curse lasted to long. If done right, you get the werewolves to team up with you if the curse isnt broken, but thats hardly a real consequence as they arent evil.

They don't have to influence anything.  Evil is independent of consequence.  At no point does causing Werewolves to massacre a tribe of Dalish Elves "result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good."  The act of vengeance is not good or neutral.

[Varenus Luckmann]

"Evil" as most of you seem to percieve it simply doesn't make any sense. What's the reasoning behind kicking the puppy? I think that there are plenty of "evil" options in the game, but no, there's no evil-for-the-sake-of-evil. And that's great. Superb, actually.

There's nothing worse than a game where evil makes no sense. The evil in Dragon Age is often very real and with very little kick-the-puppy.

[MFCell]

Medet wrote...

... I mean really... are you asking to destroy the world in a cutscene at the end?

... maybe. It was supremely satisfying to know that everything you did to watch the galaxy burn and be rebuilt under sith rule (yours) meant something in KOTOR.

The DA:O scale, and therefore in-game equivalent however, is not nearly as epic.  I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but KOTOR deals with thousands of planets and galaxies, and destroying ferelden is a big GAME OVER for the franchise. The in-game equivalent would be if your charachter raised Denerim to the ground at the end.  As I said, that's just not as epic. Epic, sure, but not as epic.

I personally feel that helping Morrigan create the God Child is the best ending to almost any game, ever.  For good or evil.  It can work either way, we don't even know yet.  For now, let it suffice to say that in order to create said God Child, you had to forsake everything you;ve been fighting for until now.

Everything you built up and worked for, you take down, in fell swoop. "Yes... swooping..is...bad."

[LtlMac]

menasure wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I got alistair to like -70 and he still dont betray me or leave me

well his mandatory nude performances in game are funny but yeah i wanted to kick that guy after 5 minutes of gameplay *sigh*

i am not even sure my evil gameplay can end up with a desirable "happy" evil end  ...  think it is going to be a "nightmare" of a good ending which i won t like  :S but i guess i have plenty of time left to find that out though

  Thats interesting.....Alistair was actually the first male supporting character in a Bioware Game I actually LIKED (Except for Minsc, of course,.....but that was mostly for comedic value) 

[Flamin Jesus]

And kick him good!

[LtlMac]

MFCell wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Whilst I do not at all intend to pick your post apart sentence by sentence, I will vaguely state that my experiences in the game, having beaten it with several charachters, are quite opposite.

I think people's real complaint, or perhaps a better word is qualm, is that Ferelden offers so much roleplaying, that when the options you conceive mentally are not possible, it is a bit disheartening.   People seem bent on claiming the power of the Old God for themselves, some what disregarding that, in a biological sense, you really did very close to just that, and that sadly(because we have to wait to get more story), your truely "evil" ending is an entire game, Dragon Age:Rebirth.

Is that speculation (on Dragon Age: Rebirth) or do know some facts?  I have not heard any info about the sequel....what do you know, if anything?  Thanks.

[MFCell]

LtlMac wrote...

MFCell wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Whilst I do not at all intend to pick your post apart sentence by sentence, I will vaguely state that my experiences in the game, having beaten it with several charachters, are quite opposite.

I think people's real complaint, or perhaps a better word is qualm, is that Ferelden offers so much roleplaying, that when the options you conceive mentally are not possible, it is a bit disheartening.   People seem bent on claiming the power of the Old God for themselves, some what disregarding that, in a biological sense, you really did very close to just that, and that sadly(because we have to wait to get more story), your truely "evil" ending is an entire game, Dragon Age:Rebirth.

Is that speculation (on Dragon Age: Rebirth) or do know some facts?  I have not heard any info about the sequel....what do you know, if anything?  Thanks.

I just made that up... sorries ! :innocent:

But Dragon Age 2 has been confirmed, yes.

[KalosCast]

Dalish Elves and Redcliffe are the only two that I can think of that end with "pure good", "pure evil" and a series of neutral endings, anything else ends in shades of grey colored by your own personal code of ethics.



In reference to Evainelithe. Look at all the opposition that Loghain had when he was already a highly respected and famous hero, as well as proving himself as a brilliant tactician (all before the start of the game) and incredibly patriotic to top it off. How could a nobody part of a secretive order (who's secrets arguably are the reason you get put in such dire straits) who's been accused of regicide and in only one case has any ties to human nobility possibly win over the proper politics to rule the human monarchy of Ferelden? ANY power grab is going to be instantly cast in a negative light by... just about every other human lord. And with proper manipulation, you CAN become the ruler of Ferelden.

[Syrellaris]

Dont get me wrong people, even though i personally feel that the options for a evil like alignment (and no i dont miss the karma system at all, i prefer without it anyway) are lackluster, Da:o is still one of the best games ive been playing so far.

[LtlMac]

Syrellaris wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If one's version of "evil" is to be an anti-social psychopath, then yes -- you're going to find it very lonely.

excuse me? What evil thing? everything caters to good and neutral. some options are made to believe that they ae evil, but in the end these options dont influence a single part of the story.

all the major plot lines and choices are either good or neutral. some have an evil twist, but they result in the npc not agreeing and forcing you to go good.

Have you even played the game?  You can encourage Werewolves to wipe out an entire tribe of Elves for vengeance.  You can enlist enslaved souls into your army.  You can help demons possess children and enslave men.

Yes actually I did, but none of those options influence ****. A demon possesses a child in shales storyline, you get a small piece of loot. great. you can let a desire demon keep a templar in the mage tower, consequences? none.  In orzammar deep roads, you can restitch a evil demon and opt to let him live. Again, no consequences.

Same with the werewolves. Its only swiftrunner that is tied to vengeance, the lady of the forest and the rest completely agree the curse lasted to long. If done right, you get the werewolves to team up with you if the curse isnt broken, but thats hardly a real consequence as they arent evil.

I have to agree.  Do't get me wrong....I LOVE the game, but there were times (Especially seeing as how there ISN'T a 'morality meter') when I actually WANTED some of my decisions to come back and bite me in the backside....but never did.

In the Alieniage...give some coin to the war vet and what happens.....more beggars.  Not a big deal, or game changer, but really drove home on the idea that actions have consequences.  Unfortunatly, a lot of times actions DIDN'T.  Kill a guy, don't kill a guy.  Help, don't help.  A lot of it didn't seem to really matter.  A lot of it did....but much of it didn't

Perfect example....My first playthrough I did the 'theif quest' in the Capital and stole a bunch of Howes money and disrupted his operations.  When I infilitrated his house and saw all of the ppl outside demanding pay at first I though "Wow, neat, I caused that!".  My second playthrough....i realized they would be there regardless.

It's not that the game is bad....it's awsome....but it's the little things like that that can really make you feel like your are making a difference or not....and as I replayed the game and  I felt like my 'efforts' did nothing but get me xp and gear.

Modifié par LtlMac, 19 novembre 2009 - 05:57 .

[MFCell]

KalosCast wrote...
 And with proper manipulation, you CAN become the ruler of Ferelden.

Bening King is nice, especially knowing my child has the soul of an Old God, ana mother who will teach him/her to use it.

R.I.P Cailen ... thanks for the crown.  I'll be sure to keep Anora warm for you...

Funny, this thread is about NOT being evil enough, yes?

Modifié par MFCell, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:02 .

[Lucasian]

"d. Zev-- Dies when you kill him"



Eloquently put.

[KalosCast]

Evainelithe wrote...

Arl Howe is doing it, no reason why you can't. Who cares if nobody wants you to become ruler at first, nobody else but wardens can stop the blight in the end so they'll need you whether they like it or not. Eventually you should be able to get anything you want out of it.

Think about it from everyone else's point of view. Arl Howe is actually a respected noble with very powerful friends, and he's already a human noble which puts him ahead of 5/6 possible origins. There are laws in place that say that mages can't have noble holdings so that makes one third of the origins COMPLETELY impossible before you even begin to try. Elves and Dwarves are their own separate nations (well, elves are conquered eternal refugees but you get what I mean). This makes only one origin slightly plausible to realistically make a land grab

As for the "only I can stop the blight" thing, only Alistair and Riordan really know that. Sure, everybody else has been told that only the Grey Wardens can do it, but it's not unrealistic to assume that most people only know that because the 4-centuries old legends claim that the Grey Wardens can do it. The order is so secretive that they never even explain to the people that they're defending why they have this ability, or why nobody else is able to do it. Alistair had been a grey warden for years and he didn't even know how it worked until the game was almost over... and when he makes his power grab, he has a legitimate, legal, connection to the throne and is still met with overwhelming opposition and skepticism.