31 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Hey there,

currently I'm playing the game on nightmare with a blood mage. My character concept is to use heavy armor instead of robes(light armor). As a blood mage you need magic, constitution and usually will power to wear robes. Since that is its only purpose I thought "why not substitute it with strength and wear plate". So far it has been working pretty well. With up to date heavy armor and 'Rock Armor' I get up to ~90% armor, being virtually invulnerable vs. physical damage.

What confuses and annoys me though is that there is so little difference in armor value between light armor and heavy armor. Let me give you an example. At the moment I'm wearing "Golem's Leg"(heavy boots) in my boot slot. Not long after I had bought those boots I found some random light boots in a barrel. Let's compare their stats. Irrelevant stats will be bracketed.

Golem's Leg:
59 armor
(1 rune slot)
(+30 attack)
Requires: 23 Strength
Requires: 23 Constitution

Random Light Boots:
50 armor
(+2 mana/stamina regeneration)
Requires: 23 Magic
Requires: 23 Willpower


This is no singular case either. I have noticed it with many other items too. Seriously, don't you think that's a bit of a small difference considering it's light and heavy armor we're comparing here?

At this point I'm thinking I might as well wear robes if it doesn't really matter anyway......


So long,
Goodspeed

[mesmerizedish]

I agree. One of the things I noticed was the the difference between armor types was almost entirely in the properties the game gave them instead of intrinsic to the armor type itself.

[mr_afk]

Yep, armour rating differences are pretty much non-existant.
As ishmael said, the difference between robes and armour is in the properties.

Generic robes usually will usually have some combination of +%elemental, +mana/+mana regen or improved bloodmagic.
Generic Warrior Armour will usually have a combination of +%physical, +armour, +health/health regen

Thus for a blood mage the advantage of robes will be in the extra elemental damage and reduced spell casting costs; and Warrior armour might convey a tiny increase in physical damage and hp.

In general, for the first few acts there won't be too great a difference between equipping robes and armour. For an elemental setup you probably would want robes but there's not too much difference stat-wise as the amount needed to be spend on strength (to meet requirements) will be quite similar to the amount needed to be spent on willpower (and both are pretty wasteful attributes imo). With the new dlc robes it favours those robes as there are no strength or willpower requirements (so more can be put into magic).

Once in act3 an elemental mage will definitely be much better off to go robes due to the robes of unblemished cleanliness. Additionally prebuffing will make only around 20 or so willpower necessary.

However, once in act3 a warrior armoured mage gets access to the helm of a thousand battles - an unique helmet which conveys 14%dmg resistance and immunity to critical hits. This is one of the few warrior pieces which will significantly improve your durability compared mage items (though with the new dlc the +10%dmg will probably be better...). You can prebuff to equip warrior items from around 25 strength.

Of course you could do some crazy combination of the two, but in general the main appeal of armour is looks-wise, as the robes look terrible in this game.


Hope that helps

p.s. That runeslot in your boots actually is quite relevant armour-wise. Dump an armour rune in it and you'll have considerably more armour than the other boots.... But yeah, the golem's leg doesn't look particularly amazing..

Modifié par mr_afk, 09 mai 2011 - 03:59 .

[Dr.Goodspeed]

mr_afk wrote...

Yep, armour rating differences are pretty much non-existant.
As ishmael said, the difference between robes and armour is in the properties.

Generic robes usually will usually have some combination of +%elemental, +mana/+mana regen or improved bloodmagic.
Generic Warrior Armour will usually have a combination of +%physical, +armour, +health/health regen

Thus for a blood mage the advantage of robes will be in the extra elemental damage and reduced spell casting costs; and Warrior armour might convey a tiny increase in physical damage and hp.

In general, for the first few acts there won't be too great a difference between equipping robes and armour. For an elemental setup you probably would want robes but there's not too much difference stat-wise as the amount needed to be spend on strength (to meet requirements) will be quite similar to the amount needed to be spent on willpower (and both are pretty wasteful attributes imo). With the new dlc robes it favours those robes as there are no strength or willpower requirements (so more can be put into magic).

Once in act3 an elemental mage will definitely be much better off to go robes due to the robes of unblemished cleanliness. Additionally prebuffing will make only around 20 or so willpower necessary.

However, once in act3 a warrior armoured mage gets access to the helm of a thousand battles - an unique helmet which conveys 14%dmg resistance and immunity to critical hits. This is one of the few warrior pieces which will significantly improve your durability compared mage items (though with the new dlc the +10%dmg will probably be better...). You can prebuff to equip warrior items from around 25 strength.

Of course you could do some crazy combination of the two, but in general the main appeal of armour is looks-wise, as the robes look terrible in this game.


Hope that helps

p.s. That runeslot in your boots actually is quite relevant armour-wise. Dump an armour rune in it and you'll have considerably more armour than the other boots.... But yeah, the golem's leg doesn't look particularly amazing..

I am aware that the runeslot allows for some additional armor, but I was only comparing basic armor values of light vs heavy armor, that's why the runeslot is irrelevant to my point.

You're mentioning different properties between light and heavy armor, and you are correct. However I disagree that
that robe properties are usual more beneficial to a bloog mage than heavy armor properties. Armor, health & health regeneration are in fact very useful to a tanking blood mage/force mage like the one I'm playing. There are also quite a few spells that benefit from +% physical damage - Stonefist, Hemorrhage(+900% dmg vs. staggered), Fist of the Maker(+900% dmg vs. staggered) and Crushing Prison(+200% dmg vs. staggered).

Most of these spells have the +% physical damage multiplied vs. staggered opponents which is a very important point to consider imho. The other damage spells I'm planning to use can be further improved by choosing the right staff. 'The Final Thought' (+33% spirit & nature damage), Corrupted Acolyte's Staff(+16% electricity damage), Torch of Falon'din(+16% fire damage), Eye of the Storm(+15% electricity damage), Cold-Blooded(+30% cold damage), etc. Some of these staves also have rune slots that can be used to further improve damage with elemental or physical runes or a rune of devastation.

Anyway, I think heavy armor is a decent choice nonetheless, I'm just annoyed by the fact that there is so little difference in armor value compared to robes. Btw. I'm not using any additional DLC except what I got from my Signature Edition and free DLC of course. The item packs are not free, right?

Thank you though for your long post and the effort you put into it. I guess I was kinda hoping for something like "don't worry, the difference will be greater towards the end of the game" ;>

[mr_afk]

heh, don't worry - relatively it wasn't a very long post and didn't involve that much effort by my standards. Have a slight problem with been too verbose. I'm trying to become more succinct but it's not really working yet. I'll just type faster to make up for it

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will tell you that the difference will be greater end-game as it simply isn't true. You will have the potential for damage resistance which is useful for a tank-mage (and is probably better than armour-ratings tbh), but in terms armour you'll find it pretty similar. Also, in terms of dps i'm afraid an elemental or crit setup will most likely be superior.

While I agree that +%physical is useful for physical spells, specialising in physical damage for a mage has several downsides:
- elemental staves won't be affected by your +% modifier and the majority of your overall dmg will come from staff attacks
- if you don't use elemental staves you will miss out on enemy weaknesses and more than ~40+% elemental dmg from robes etc.
- additionally, physical staves have the problem of a) been affected by enemy armour-ratings (besides those with ignore armour properties), not getting any elemental weaknesses, i.e. missing out on double the damage from staff attacks c) the amount of +%physical possible been quite limited.
- for these reasons the final thought is a huge waste of money. It's simply not as good as even the random drops towards end-game 

On that second-last point, compare +%fire which can go up to 150%+ to +%physical which if you're lucky will be around 20%+. Due to these reasons your damage will be a lot less than both an elemental build or a crit-build.
So what I'm saying pretty much is that damage-wise the +%physical from the armour won't be that useful.

About crit-builds, my current build is a non-elemental crit-mage specialised in spirit and physical spells. I also had to look for the best ways to maximise those types of damage and from what I can tell, the best way to maximise the damage from physical and spirit spells is to work on your critical chance and critical damage as spells can crit and will deal a lot more damage if you build it right.

However, there's nothing to stop you from equipping crit-gear (accessories) and warrior armour if you wish. I'm currently using the dlc robes (which I had to pay for - but totally worth it for that staff haha) and will probably upgrade to some +%spirit robes later game. If you did continue with the warrior armour concept you could try dissension which has +9%physical (which is the most +physical damage I know of).

But yeah, basically if you're intending to use physical staves you might find your damage quite gimped as the magister's staff only goes so far. +%Physical dmg will help all your physical spells but will leave any other spells pretty weak. If you're going for a more durable setup a warrior-armour build may have some merit (though most spirit healers will label it as unnecessary) but not due to the difference between armour-rating.
I was also kinda bugged by the way that full-plate has pretty much the same armour-rating as a flimsy clothing. I guess they must just make really sturdy cloth in kirkwall haha.

Modifié par mr_afk, 09 mai 2011 - 01:52 .

[Dr.Goodspeed]

In my first playthrough I played a rogue, that's why I'm not that experienced with mages in DA2 yet. Before my current char I was just using mages as brittle machines

Don't worry, I'm not going to buy 'The Final Thought' I was just using it as an example. I wasn't aware that staff dps, as in the actual damage you deal by firing your staff, was such a big deal. In my book the DPS of my staff was only useful to enhance my spell damage basically.

Furthermore I haven't been experimenting with elemental weaknesses yet. So far I have only been using elemental staves the enemies are not immune against rather than staves they are particularly weak against.

I might partially be a min-maxer, as in wanting my character to be really powerful in contrast to just role-playing and not worrying about combat. However, I'm not one to change equipment for every fight or even to respecc for certain fights. That being said I want to wear some good all-round equipment in the end only having to change staves according to the enemies I'm fighting. Considering this +150% fire damage, which requires highly specialized equipment is rather unlikely, right?

What I want is my character to be virtually invincible while still dealing good - very good damage overall without having to change equipment frequently - except for staves of course. What would you recommend in this case? My current plan is to keep wearing heavy armor till late chapter 3 thus maximizing my physical damage reduction, health, etc. When my level is so high, probably around 24+, that any kind of armor won't offer much damage mitigation anyway, I could respecc and switch to wearing light armor, maximizing my damage instead. My trinket slots are pretty much decided already and will focus on +x to all attributes stuff and unique immunities like vs. stun, critical hits, flanking, etc

However the unknown factor in my whole decision making process is that I don't know how good random drops will be once I reach very high levels. Speaking of random drops - another problem is that you don't get random heavy armor drops as a mage =(

[mr_afk]

Well, in DA2 mages have less spells and larger cooldowns than in origins. This means that while spells do determine the ability of the mage in terms of support, damage, or crowd control the basic attacks play a much larger component in the total damage dealt.

This means that it is worth it to get your basic staff damage high by equipping powerful staffs, +%equipment and pumping magic.

Additionally, as you know, your spell damage is determined by your base damage which is made up by the base damage of the staff and your amount of magic; base dmg=staff dmg+(magic-10)/2
And spells do a decent proportion of a mages damage and are very useful for spike damage.

Use IN1's elemental weaknesses list to help determine which is the best spells and staves to use for the enemy you're facing. Even if you don't want to change staves to get the x2 bonus, knowing which spells to cast is always handy.

As for been virtually invincible while still dealing good damage you're probably looking at a spirit healer build and taking advantage of loads of CCCs. In order to become truly invincible you'll have to pump constitution a considerable amount and have a high health regen. The spirit healer spec helps on both counts, enabling mages (especially bloodmage/spirit healers) to become as close to invincible as you can ever be. Check out ezrafetch's guide on it.

Damage-wise it'll depend on how much magic you decide to invest and how good you are at CCCs. It is probably possible to get through the game with very low levels of magic - it's just that you'll have to rely on spells (100%hit rate) and CCCs (as your attacks will have such crappy dmg otherwise).

If you focus more on magic and are good enough at the game to not get too injured, you can get by with less durability and have more damage.
As for dps builds, broadly speaking I know of the elemental build (which focuses on fire and cold spells) and my crit-mage build (which focuses on critical chance/damage and spirit and physical spells). Each type has guides out there for them - though in my case mine is no where near complete.

But don't let that stop you! I know of several people who used warrior armour mages (mostly to be invincible) and seemed to have got through the game easy enough. If you're not min-maxing damage a warrior armour build is definitely viable. Or maybe you'll be able to come up with a new way to make a dps mage.

Random drop-wise I don't think you can really depend on there been amazing armour pieces but if you're patient one trick you can do is visit a shop with good quality armour (maybe the one in hightown) and keep reloading the auto-save from entering the area until you find an armour you really like. This method can also be used to find the best staves/any generic item.

Hope that helps.

Modifié par mr_afk, 09 mai 2011 - 03:48 .

[tonnactus]

Dr.Goodspeed wrote...

In my first playthrough I played a rogue, that's why I'm not that experienced with mages in DA2 yet. Before my current char I was just using mages as brittle machines

Don't worry, I'm not going to buy 'The Final Thought' I was just using it as an example. I wasn't aware that staff dps, as in the actual damage you deal by firing your staff, was such a big deal. In my book the DPS of my staff was only useful to enhance my spell damage basically.

Unlike in Dragon Age Origins,the autoattack damage mages do with their staffs now is comparable with warriors.
And elemental staffs ignore armor,as do elemental weapons.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

mr_afk wrote...

Well, in DA2 mages have less spells and larger cooldowns than in origins. This means that while spells do determine the ability of the mage in terms of support, damage, or crowd control the basic attacks play a much larger component in the total damage dealt.

This means that it is worth it to get your basic staff damage high by equipping powerful staffs, +%equipment and pumping magic.

Additionally, as you know, your spell damage is determined by your base damage which is made up by the base damage of the staff and your amount of magic; base dmg=staff dmg+(magic-10)/2
And spells do a decent proportion of a mages damage and are very useful for spike damage.

Use IN1's elemental weaknesses list to help determine which is the best spells and staves to use for the enemy you're facing. Even if you don't want to change staves to get the x2 bonus, knowing which spells to cast is always handy.

As for been virtually invincible while still dealing good damage you're probably looking at a spirit healer build and taking advantage of loads of CCCs. In order to become truly invincible you'll have to pump constitution a considerable amount and have a high health regen. The spirit healer spec helps on both counts, enabling mages (especially bloodmage/spirit healers) to become as close to invincible as you can ever be. Check out ezrafetch's guide on it.

Damage-wise it'll depend on how much magic you decide to invest and how good you are at CCCs. It is probably possible to get through the game with very low levels of magic - it's just that you'll have to rely on spells (100%hit rate) and CCCs (as your attacks will have such crappy dmg otherwise).

If you focus more on magic and are good enough at the game to not get too injured, you can get by with less durability and have more damage.
As for dps builds, broadly speaking I know of the elemental build (which focuses on fire and cold spells) and my crit-mage build (which focuses on critical chance/damage and spirit and physical spells). Each type has guides out there for them - though in my case mine is no where near complete.

But don't let that stop you! I know of several people who used warrior armour mages (mostly to be invincible) and seemed to have got through the game easy enough. If you're not min-maxing damage a warrior armour build is definitely viable. Or maybe you'll be able to come up with a new way to make a dps mage.

Random drop-wise I don't think you can really depend on there been amazing armour pieces but if you're patient one trick you can do is visit a shop with good quality armour (maybe the one in hightown) and keep reloading the auto-save from entering the area until you find an armour you really like. This method can also be used to find the best staves/any generic item.

Hope that helps.

Thanks I'll consider what you've said and maybe make some adjusments to my build.

One thing that might have come across wrong though is the impression that I'm not satisfied with my character's performance. In fact my blood/force build is working perfectly so far, especially the "virtually invincible" part I don't think Spirit Healer is needed for that.

About the +% physical damage again. Considering the +% physical damage is multiplied vs. staggered opponents in most cases I think it could outperform elemental damage even if the percentage is much lower. Of course that means I'm dependant on staggering but stagger is by far the easiest to cause of the three effects.

I think I'll stick to my original plan for now and if you're interested I will update you on my progress ;-)


So long,
Goodspeed

[mr_afk]

Good Luck, i'll be interested on how it works out.

Btw, would you happen to know how the mechanics behind CCCs work?
e.g. for critical hit chain lightning off a staggered enemy would it be:
Damage = (3.14*Base Dmg)*(+%electricity)*600%*(CritDmg%)

Because if that's the case and +%modifiers and critdmg%modifiers are treated the same I would hope that my method of focusing on the critical side of things (e.g. crit chance to get the crit and crit damage to increase the damage) will work out better than increasing modifiers like +%physical.

In theory, getting a critical would be the equivalent of +50%(to all dmg sources) and each increase in critical damage% would further that damage. That was my concept behind my crit-mage build but i'm still not too sure of the mechanics behind spells critting..

For example, my current build has 46% crit chance and 86% crit dmg.
I should be able to get crit chance higher but the only slightly annoying thing is that I can't follow my original accessory shopping list as I didn't have enough money (was ~7 sovereigns short) at the end of act 2 and the item isn't available in act 3..
But anyway, if my understanding is right, then any of my spells/staff attacks have around an one-in-two chance of doing +86%dmg. This would be quite considerable as well as having the advantage of applying to all spells, both elemental and physical. As such all the CCCs from my build would have the potential to get their dmg multiplied by 86%; which is considerable more than the amount possible to obtain for spirit and physical (though a lot less compared to elements like fire).

Unfortunately I'm still not sure if this is the case (as I can't find any explanations of how the critical/CCC mechanics work), though I am pumping out some pretty serious damage. But yeah, my build is definitely not invincible. I have the crappiest armour-rating and hardly any hp. haha


edited for my brain glitching

Modifié par mr_afk, 10 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[Dr.Goodspeed]

As far as I know CCC multipliers are added last. Otherwise there'd be no way to explain some Assassinates I did with my rogue ;>

(3.14*Base Dmg)*(+%electricity)*(CritDmg%)*CCC%

So what you said basically, thanks to our friend the commutative law.

[mr_afk]

Yeah, as I was typing it I was like 'wait...there're all multiplications so it really shouldn't make a difference' haha. My brain wasn't really working...it happens every so often

Anyway, thanks for that clarification, I look forward to seeing what you do

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Np. Btw., do you know from the top of your head what counts as "conventional healing"? Only direct healing spells and potions right?

[mr_afk]

Yep. So if you're using bloodmagic no healing from even death syphon - only bloodmage abilities will heal health. If you're anders using vengeance you either have to kill ppl or just deactivate it before healing. I'm pretty sure that's what it is anyway.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

mr_afk wrote...

Yep. So if you're using bloodmagic no healing from even death syphon - only bloodmage abilities will heal health. If you're anders using vengeance you either have to kill ppl or just deactivate it before healing. I'm pretty sure that's what it is anyway.

But health regeneration works, right?

[mr_afk]

ummm i think so. I'm not really an expert on game mechanics so can't really say.
Plus my characters all have not very much constitution so I don't really notice the effects of health regen anyway.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

mr_afk wrote...

ummm i think so. I'm not really an expert on game mechanics so can't really say.
Plus my characters all have not very much constitution so I don't really notice the effects of health regen anyway.

Ahh, I see! No wonder you're so concerned with staff DPS then. If you play a blood mage with high constitution and some blood magic enhancing items you can basically cast spells non-stop while having as many sustained spells/auras active as you please. So basically all you need is to have enough spells so that the first cooldown is ready when you've cast your last spell.

Considering this I have decided to adjust my build a bit. I won't actually put any points into force magic, since I do not need the +100 fortitude. With my high constitution/HP, armor, and fortitude I'm not being knocked down or back anyway. Thus I can easily max out both primal and elemental magic at a reasonable time and get some additional damage spells too. That way I think I'll be able to cast spells in a never ending cycle. However I might have to look into amassing some +% elemental damage equip then to maximize the effectiveness of my build. I'll have insanely high magic(75-85 naked) though at some point so my damage will be decent anyway I guess.

[mr_afk]

Haha yeah, all my characters are pretty glassy with only around 20-25 con (including +attribute items). They used to have even less but any less than ~200hp starts to be ridiculous (and killing yourself via spell-casting is really lame).

But yes, that improved blood magic means that even with such a small health pool I effectively have more mana than most willpower mage-builds. e.g. merrill has around 220hp and a ratio of 6-7 (amulet, two rings, abilities, and sometimes staff) which means she has the equivalent of 1540 mana. Of course this is less in practice due to receiving damage/needing to be healed but in general both my mages don't ever have health problems from too much spell-casting.

So as long as you equip some of those items you should be able to cast spells non-stop even without high constitution - blood magic is awesome
However, I don't think any class can keep up a constant stream of abilities/spells in DA2. Generally i find that DA2 combat is more about using abilities only as required - especially since that if you specialise in certain spells (i.e. upgrade them) you won't actually have that many abilities in the end...

Ermm.. if you're not putting any points into force magic does that mean you're speccing into spirit healer instead or just leaving it as the passive increase to the force of your spells? Because the function of the forcemage spec isn't solely about becoming unshakeable you know.. it has some of the best crowd-control abilities in the game and allows the easiest and most reliable methods for unstealthing enemies. And you don't need to get unshakeable - I didn't. I'm just using an immunity to knockback ring instead.

Well good luck with your build! Hope this helps

[Dr.Goodspeed]

No, no I do plan to get force magic for the additional elemental and physical force. Frankly, I do not need any crowd control though. As I said, my character is practically invincible. Even if I do get assassinated, i takes at least two assassinates from powerful assassins to bring me down to low health. And then I can always use 'Grave Robber' to be at full HP again or deactivate blood magic and receive a heal or use a potion.

Anyway, as I said, this way I will easily have enough points to max out both primal & elemental magic and get all spells/abilities that I want from blood magic.

You know, there's one thing I noticed when you're talking about equipment. You always tend to assume you're wearing highly specialized equipment. E.g. 3-5 blood magic enhancing items. Either you're switching equipment really often or you're going to have to make some sacrifices. I mean you can't have it all, can you? In my case for example I sacrifice +% elemental damage and blood magic enhancements on my ring & amulet slots to get maximum +x to all attributes stuff because I feel like I benefit from that very much overall. Basically the only attribute I really don't need is willpower. Btw. I don't know if you know it but high con/hp actually helps vs. knockbacks/knockdowns too. What I'm saying is that my hit points and fortitude will be so high that I don't even need that knockback immunity ring.

You're right about the "use the right ability at the right time" thing, but nonetheless I'm pretty sure I'll be able to cast non-stop with my build if I so desire. With full elemental and primal magic I should easily have enough spells and damage(received) and mana/health aren't really an issue.

[mr_afk]

Ah okay then. I normally use the force mage CC to setup my walking bombs but I suppose there isn't a huge need to grav ring the enemies in your firestorms/tempests as it should knock them around enough to keep them in the aoe.. Also, as I was saying, my whole party is pretty fragile and only barely able to withstand one assassinate if i'm lucky. I forgot to mention that I leave my archers at base health (and when I used to use anders I had him at ~125hp). This means that you really don't want too many enemies (especially assassins) running around instead of all nicely controlled haha.

My equipment isn't that specialised haha. And notice how I talked about merrill - hawke doesn't have any improved bloodmagic items atm. Makes spell casting a lot more..exciting
But it's not so strange really: Merrill's got her dlc ring, ring of ruin (soon to be replaced by sylvan wood), talisman of saarebas, and sometimes a staff. I've specced Merrill to be exclusively deal electricity/physical/nature and there weren't any worthwhile item drops so far that I could give her.
But I know what you mean - with my current item plan for hawke I'll probably end up with a ratio of 3 for hawke, solely from abilities. :/ I don't use +%elemental, but +crit% is pretty much the same.

And don't worry about me knowing knockback mechanics. I've explained it to so many people before/added a summary about it in my guide etc so I know it pretty well. I just mentioned that ring because my hawke doesn't have quite the constitution and fortitude as yours

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Hehe, ok. Sorry, I meant no offense with the knockback thing.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to some character comparing with you at level 27. You seem to have it all planned out while I'm kinda freestyling along the way. Let's see how it turns out

[mr_afk]

and none taken
Sounds like a plan! If i ever do reach level 27... <_<
That's one advantage with a tank/non-glass cannon build. You can afford to leave bosses alive for longer and thus get more waves and more experience. I always target the bosses first so I pretty much will struggle to get level 26

And the only reason I've planned it all is because I ended up discussing the viability of my build quite indepth, with calcs and everything. So I plotted out the potential items to take comparing it against a min-maxed elemental mage and think i came up with close results. But we'll have to see.

Modifié par mr_afk, 12 mai 2011 - 07:59 .

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Uhm... I think all waves spawn whether you kill the boss first or last. With my rogue I always used to brittle + assassinate instant kill bosses and then kill the adds and he reached level 27.

The problem has to be somewhere else I think. Are you using a potion of heroism in every playthrough? Another little trick is to have Aveline always wear the 'Lion of Orlais'. You will get +2% experience regardless of her being in your active party or not.

[Dr.Goodspeed]

Now that I think of it, there are some really big chunks of experience you can miss out on. Like if you demand money from the Qunari looking for the swords of his fallen comrades you lose about 13000XP from that quest alone.

[mr_afk]

Hm. I usually maximise experience from any quest I do so that's not such a problem.

and I think it's established that you lose experience if you kill commanders too fast as they call for reinforcements/additional waves. There's a limit to it of course, but if you unload chain CCCs on them from the very start you don't get any additional waves and thus less experience.

Yeah, I always used to just leave aveline with the Lion of Orlais on but now that I'm actually using her in my party I've equipped her with better stuff. one or so levels shouldn't make too much difference to a build comparison anyway, it'll be fine.