61 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

I remember reading a while back about a "poverty challenge", where you aren't allowed to pick up any item except quest items. I wanted to try something similar, and I challenge anyone else to do the same. I've gone for slightly softer rules (I'll explain why below), though I plan to do this as a minimal-reload (i.e. only reloading on character's death); a no-reload will probably be too much for me.

The rules:

[*]You may only pick up items which you use or equip immediately.
Exception: Quest items.

[*]If you have the choice to decline a reward for a quest, you must do so. Any item you are given must be ditched if not used (and not a quest item).

[*]You may not purchase anything from stores. I don't think it's possible to ditch gold, so you have to imagine you don't have any.
Exception: You can buy ammo. It's only 1gp anyway.
Exception: You can buy starter stuff from Winthrop.[/list]
The logic behind this is twofold. Firstly, from an RP point of view, I can imagine a fighter taking a vow of poverty, but still keeping, say, his trusty sword. At the end of the day, you're playing an adventurer, not a beggar, so the challenge needs to reflect that. Secondly, from a gameplay point of view, a strict "only plot items" rule would make most classes unplayable. I'm playing BG:TotSC (i.e. no BGT or TuTu) so the Sorcerer and Monk are out. Allowing a single item in each slot and the immediate use of items means that fighters can bypass weapon immunity, and mages can scribe scrolls. Otherwise, this would only be doable as a Cleric or Druid, and maybe not even then. It would be fine to collect ammo rather than buy it, but nobody drops bullets. We can pretend that you just picked up some stones, anyway.

I'll see how this goes, anyway, and maybe adjust the rules if necessary. I'm playing with a few mods, so I'm also going to add a personaly restriction that I'm not going to pick up anything dropped by an enemy I know is from Dark Horizons, since I find that loot to be overpowered (even if I only get, say, one weapon from the lot).

Modifié par The Fred, 09 mai 2011 - 04:32 .

[The Fred]

So, enter Aithilrin the Annoying, Chaotic Good Half-Elf Cleric/Mage. Stats: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 15, Wis 18, Cha 8.

Aithilrin is a wise but intolerant half-elf Cleric of Mystra (I thought Ilmater, but Cleric/Mage doesn't fit so well) with a plethora of strange habits who most people find intensely annoying.

I figured Mage and Cleric would effective due to a lack of reliance on items. The only interesting thing will not being able to buy spell scrolls. The mods are the same as I'm using in my current no-reload game (too lazy to make a new install):

The Vault Item Pack (useless)
Alternate Portraits
Dark Horizons
Stone of Askavar
The Grey Clan Episode 1: In Candlelight
BG1 Unfinished Business
BG1 Tweaks (animations, icons, Cloakwood before Ch 4, reveal city maps, universal clubs, allow thieving and arcane spells in heavy armour with penalties, 3E druids, save penalties for high-level spells, all NPCs legal and BG2 stats, Khalid Fighter/Mage)
A mod of my own making which gives druids certain spells and makes others druid-only.
A mod of my own making which increases item stacks (useless)
SCS-derived components (Faster bears, smarter deployment, harder spiders, improved assassin party deployment).

I'm also thinking of SCKing NPCs to similar but different (legal) classes, just to provide a change and mix things up a bit, a la L1 NPCs, nothing radical, illegal or overpowered.

[The Fred]

Embarrassingly, Aithilrin gets killed by a couple of lucky blows from the guy DH adds to the rats room, so I started over (same character, though).

I haven't really decided whether to allow myself a ranged and melee weapon per person, or just one weapon, so I bought a mace, shield, and suit of splint mail from Winthrop, ditching my quarterstaff, do all the quests, and then head out. We are ambushed and Gorion is killed, and then I meet up with Imoen. Using Sword Coast Keeper, I changed her to a Bard (this has nothing to do with the challenge; I rarely play with a Bard, and Imoen's Thief/Mage history means she makes sense as one) and then have her throw away all but one of her potions, a healing potion which I drink. I'm thinking I will allow a ranged and melee weapon, a little lax but it makes sense, so she's still got her short sword, at least for now. However, I also changed her proficiency from short to long swords, so it won't do her much good right now anyway. Other than that, all her stats are the same. She's L2 so I gave her Sleep and Charm Person, but her abilities, saves etc all remain as they were.

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...

Embarrassingly, Aithilrin gets killed by a couple of lucky blows from the guy DH adds to the rats room, so I started over (same character, though).

This guy is actually one of the harder challenges in the game because you can't normally run away from him.  The rats make movement difficult in the room and if you go out of the room and back in he will take the opportunity to hide in shadows and backstab you!

Can I just check my understanding of your challenge:
- you appear to be allowing one item to be equipped in each body slot.  Does this mean that you can replace this item over time, e.g. if you originally equip girdle of piercing taken from the ogre can you replace with golden girdle at a later date?  If so can the girdle no longer required on your main character be passed on to an NPC?  If that is allowed could it be exchanged back at a later time, e.g. to prepare for expected missile attacks?
- if a character has more than one slot can each be filled, e.g. could different types of ammunition be kept (in order to have a choice of magic / non-magic for instance); could a fighter have a choice of weapons in his 4 slots?
- are the quick items slots available for use (for instance can a mage equip a wand here as that is analagous to a weapon slot for a fighter)?
- if you can't purchase from stores does this mean that you can't use temples (for raise dead for example)?  Does this also mean you can't steal from stores?  If so, what about pickpocketing NPCs?
- how does something like Algernon's cloak fit into this challenge?  The rules would appear to allow this to be equipped, but it's possible to win the game using nothing but this - is this intended?

[The Fred]

Grond0 wrote...
- you appear to be allowing one item to be equipped in each body slot.  Does this mean that you can replace this item over time, e.g. if you originally equip girdle of piercing taken from the ogre can you replace with golden girdle at a later date?  If so can the girdle no longer required on your main character be passed on to an NPC?  If that is allowed could it be exchanged back at a later time, e.g. to prepare for expected missile attacks?

That was my intention, yes, but changing back would be difficult because I think leaving things in a stash somewhere would be against the spirit of the game. From an RP sense, leaving or keeping a specific item to deal with a specific type of foe makes sense, but I think that if you can't store it in your inventory, you can't store it in a container.

- if a character has more than one slot can each be filled, e.g. could different types of ammunition be kept (in order to have a choice of magic / non-magic for instance); could a fighter have a choice of weapons in his 4 slots?

I was going to allow ammo just because ranged weapons are so much more powerful in BG1, as much as anything; I'm not sure about magic ammo but I think it makes sense from an RP point of view (it's valueable because it's magical, not because it's ostentatious, plus it makes as much sense for an archer to have arrows as it does for a fighter to have a sword). Allowing an item in each slot is, I feel, necessary for most characters, but I wasn't planning on letting fighters have a selection. I think one ranged and one melee would be OK (not sure about this, I was hoping to get some extra opinions) but I can't imagine carrying a selection of swords. If you're not actually using it, you should ditch it.

- are the quick items slots available for use (for instance can a mage equip a wand here as that is analagous to a weapon slot for a fighter)?

I wasn't planning on it; you can pick up potions and drink them etc, but not carry them about - a quick slot is basically a carrying slot, after all. This may make things a bit tougher on wand users, and it's the main reason I don't feel up to trying this as a no-reload (no healing potions or antidotes) but there it is.

- if you can't purchase from stores does this mean that you can't use temples (for raise dead for example)?  Does this also mean you can't steal from stores?  If so, what about pickpocketing NPCs?

Having just switched Immy to a Bard with Pick Pockets, I was just wondering about this myself. The short answer is, I don't know. If you have no cash, I don't see that you can pay to raise people - this does mean that any death is effectively a chunking, however. Possibly you could raise cash from the point of death onwards (as if resurrecting the character were a quest), but this would be tricky to keep track of unless you Shadowkept (Shadowkeepered?) all your gold away. As for stealing, I don't imagine that anyone who took a Vow of Poverty would do such a thing; I suppose you could steal things but keep them to the same restrictions as all other items - for example, you could steal and use a potion, or steal and scribe a scroll, but not steal things to sell or horde.

- how does something like Algernon's cloak fit into this challenge?  The rules would appear to allow this to be equipped, but it's possible to win the game using nothing but this - is this intended?

Hmm, I don't normally bother with the cloak myself (I don't like stealing that much), but I suppose it would be legitimate as per the rules of the challenge. I don't think it would be very exciting or in the spirit of the challenge, though.

As I said, when I first saw this, you were only allowed plot items or to raise gold for the start of BG2 (the Imoen quest). I'm adapting the rules to make things doable whilst still being somewhat challenging and making some sense, flavour-wise, but without having played a run-through I'm not sure of the nuances of things (which is one reason I started the thread).

[ussnorway]

Algernon's cloak is a special case... I was thinking of making a halfling bard that hides, steals and charms her way around Athkatla. Would prob need to summon something for the harder battles, not sure... does this fit into your role-playing challenge?

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...

Grond0 wrote...
- you appear to be allowing one item to be equipped in each body slot.  Does this mean that you can replace this item over time, e.g. if you originally equip girdle of piercing taken from the ogre can you replace with golden girdle at a later date?  If so can the girdle no longer required on your main character be passed on to an NPC?  If that is allowed could it be exchanged back at a later time, e.g. to prepare for expected missile attacks?

That was my intention, yes, but changing back would be difficult because I think leaving things in a stash somewhere would be against the spirit of the game. From an RP sense, leaving or keeping a specific item to deal with a specific type of foe makes sense, but I think that if you can't store it in your inventory, you can't store it in a container.

I wasn't thinking of storing in a container, but just swapping things between party members - I was wondering if this would make it too easy. However, I can see there would be difficulties in doing this because of the constant threat your NPCs will be killed so it may be reasonable to allow.

Allowing an item in each slot is, I feel, necessary for most characters, but I wasn't planning on letting fighters have a selection. I think one ranged and one melee would be OK (not sure about this, I was hoping to get some extra opinions) but I can't imagine carrying a selection of swords. If you're not actually using it, you should ditch it.

I don't have a problem with this in principle.  It will mean careful thought is needed about some creatures (if you're using a sword and you want to tackle a creature that requires blunt weapons for instance), but I guess that use of other NPCs, spells and abilities should be able to get around such instances.

Having just switched Immy to a Bard with Pick Pockets, I was just wondering about this myself. The short answer is, I don't know. If you have no cash, I don't see that you can pay to raise people - this does mean that any death is effectively a chunking, however. Possibly you could raise cash from the point of death onwards (as if resurrecting the character were a quest), but this would be tricky to keep track of unless you Shadowkept (Shadowkeepered?) all your gold away. As for stealing, I don't imagine that anyone who took a Vow of Poverty would do such a thing; I suppose you could steal things but keep them to the same restrictions as all other items - for example, you could steal and use a potion, or steal and scribe a scroll, but not steal things to sell or horde.

It does seem reasonable to allow pickpocketing from NPCs within those limits - if you don't do that I can see the temptation to get round the restriction by killing people instead (which may fit within the letter of a vow of poverty, but seems a bit against its spirit to me).  I would suggest, however, that no stealing be allowed from stores as this is more like shopping than the tactical exercise of a skill (also there's a major difference that there's no failure chance at stores if your skill is high enough, unlike pickpocketing).

[The Fred]

I suppose swapping between party members would be OK; at the end of the day, you need people to be carrying things in the first place, and if you allow a ranged and melee weapon each it does give you a few options (a ranged character could "store" a spare weapon for you), but not many. To be honest, this would make a lot more sense as a solo run anyway, but I for one don't feel up to that.

Obviously one of the biggest things will be dealing with certain creatures. The TotSC areas, for example (e.g. Balduran's Island) might be tough, but the core game should be doable. The other difficulties will be the lack of potions (so the spider and wyvern areas will be tough, for example) and, for wizards, scrolls.

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...
I suppose swapping between party members would be OK; at the end of the day, you need people to be carrying things in the first place, and if you allow a ranged and melee weapon each it does give you a few options (a ranged character could "store" a spare weapon for you), but not many. To be honest, this would make a lot more sense as a solo run anyway

OK - you've convinced me to have a go with a solo character.  I had been thinking about having another solo go with a F/M/T, but setting the XP level at 1/6 in order to avoid getting too high level as in my previous game, but I'll take your challenge instead. 

Rules pretty much as set out above, i.e.
- 1 melee weapon and 1 missile weapon at a time allowed; can use the 3 slots for ammunition stacks.
- can equip items in other body slots, but not quick item slots or inventory (other than quest items).
- no purchase or stealing from shops (including temples).
- items found / pickpocketed / taken from dead bodies must be used / equipped straight away, i.e. can't be stored in inventory or containers.  My interpretation is that this rules out even a single use of wands (as these would have to be put into a quick slot), but would allow potions to be drunk by right-clicking on inventory when first picked up and allow an attempt to learn scrolls when first picked up (almost certainly without the opportunity to enhance intelligence though).
- although I have a number of mods installed, I won't make use of any equipment not available in vanilla game (although I might acquire such equipment earlier than possible in vanilla).
- unlike you I will not decline quest rewards automatically (but will still of course drop them if not immediately used).
- I'm also going to treat myself to maximum HPs (partly because I can already see, without healing ability, that slow death by poison will be only too likely)

Mods installed are:
CharmPatch
BG2 Fixpack
BGT
Dark Horizons
Dark Side of the Sword Coast
Northern Tales of the Sword Coast (+ separate dialogue patch)
The Secret of Bone Hill
BG1 Mini-quests and encounters
The Grey Clan
BG1 NPC Project
Gavin
BG1 UB
Gavin BG2
BG2 UB
SCS
Solaufein
G3 anniversary
BGT Tweak Pack
Turambar Fixes and Tweaks
SCS II
BG2 Tweak Pack
Item Pack
aTweaks
Worldmap
L1 NPCs
Widescreen Mod
Generalised Biffing

Modifié par Grond0, 10 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[The Fred]

Grond0 wrote...
My interpretation is that this rules out even a single use of wands (as these would have to be put into a quick slot).

Personally, I can see picking up a wand and firing it immediately - but you'd have to do it half-way through a fight to be able to use it, which would make it unlikely anyway (especially given you'd probably have to identify it first). I tend to leave picking up the loot until the end of the fight anyway, but I'd be OK with people using wands even more than once, so long as they discard them as soon as they stop using them.

Anyway, welcome to the challenge!
Aithilrin and Imoen have made it to Beregost. I want to head up to the FAI, but I'm thinking of rushing to Nashkel to get the Cure Light Wounds ability (being faster to cast than normal, it could save lives). Being poor as we are, we're going to have to sleep rough, and I'm wary of the DH assassins en route to both Nashkel and the FAI (I would have uninstalled DH for this run, but I couldn't be bothered). I want to pick up some party support, maybe Minsc (though not too soon) or Branwen (for Cleric support), and later on a thief (thinking Safana), but I haven't really decided on my next move yet.

[The Fred]

Aithilrin and Imoen made it to Nashkel. Aithilrin nearly got killed by an ogrillion on the way, but the duo triumphed and recovered a letter for a "Mirianne", which Aithilrin vowed to deliver. We were also attacked by an assassin calling herself Neira - she shrugged off all of our spells but one Command spell, so we fled.

I've also been thinking a little about the challenge. I was going to suggest allowing the purchase of ammo, but that doesn't work if you have no money (I technically have 8gp, but that's it). It's also hard to collect bolts and bullets. Realistically, I imagine such characters making their own arrows and things, so I guess you could allow the "cheating" in of extra basic ammo, but this detracts from the challenge a bit.

Also, Branwen strikes me as a special case - with no cash, and not being allowed to carry items, there's no way to de-petrify her. I wonder if, after you find her, collecting a Stone to Flesh scroll for her could be considered an unofficial quest? It'd still be hard enough to find such a scroll without cash, anyway.

Grond0 wrote...
- unlike you I will not decline quest rewards automatically (but will still of course drop them if not immediately used).

This actually makes a lot of sense (imagine being given a healing potion whilst injured, for example); I was thinking of monetary rewards when I said this.

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...

I've also been thinking a little about the challenge. I was going to suggest allowing the purchase of ammo, but that doesn't work if you have no money (I technically have 8gp, but that's it). It's also hard to collect bolts and bullets. Realistically, I imagine such characters making their own arrows and things, so I guess you could allow the "cheating" in of extra basic ammo, but this detracts from the challenge a bit.

Also, Branwen strikes me as a special case - with no cash, and not being allowed to carry items, there's no way to de-petrify her. I wonder if, after you find her, collecting a Stone to Flesh scroll for her could be considered an unofficial quest? It'd still be hard enough to find such a scroll without cash, anyway.

I had thought from what you said earlier that you were allowing the purchase of ammo anyway.  My feeling was that this was not necessary for me as a bow user because it's easy enough to re-supply from bandits, kobolds etc.  However, I could imagine that the lack of bullets would be unbalancing for cleric types so would have no objection to purchasing or cheating in ammo for them (I think you said earlier that this would effectively just mean they were searching for suitable stones while journeying).

In relation to Branwen I agree she should be available.  If you get the scroll from the vendor next to her you could use it without moving, which would fit in with the spirit of the challenge (though I'm not sure if you should be allowed to pay for this or not).  Indeed, thinking of your earlier comments about wands, perhaps this should be part of the rules, i.e. you can make use of wands / scrolls at the spot you find them, but not move at all carrying them.

[Grond0]

I've made a start to the challenge with Rowntree - an elven fighter / mage / thief.  At Candlekeep she got a sword from a locked chest before disposing of Carbos and Shank by running away and returning with backstabs.  After acquiring a familiar (Tiana - fairy dragon) she shielded and attacked Mendas.  He got one stab in before surrendering his studded leather.  Here she is at the point of leaving with Gorion.


In Gorion's Rest used Tiana's invisibility to initially get a bow from some sleeping kobolds - fortunately there was no sign of the invisible goblins that sometimes lurk here in DH.  I was able to replace my armour to fight the one kobold still active before the computer registered that a combat was underway.  Also backstabbed Xzar and Montaron because I just don't like them - used Montaron's potion of speed to help kill a few wolves and also upgraded to a long bow from his equipment.

At the crossroads left the caravan bandits alone for the moment, but everything else went - almost all to backstabs as don't have many arrows left (ogre needed two backstabs so I took a belt off him as compensation for my effort as well as learning a web scroll he had).  In anticipation of doing so much hiding in shadows Rowntree was set up with all her initial points in stealth - I'm hoping there won't be much need to open locks in this game.

In Beregost pacified Marl and then tried to pickpocket Algernon, but he got shirty and I settled for killing him (I usually prefer to have lower reputation anyway to get the evil Bhaal initial powers, although that might be a mistake in this game without the use of healing potions).  Partially atoned by doing a good deed for Firebead, which gave me a thief level.  The improved stealth paid immediate dividends as the spiders fell to backstabs (only one requiring 2 doses).  Two backstabs turned Karlat berserk and he chased me into the street and had to be finished off with a few arrows.  I did manage to pickpocket Tulbor (discarding a useless healing potion), but only after an initial failure and he chased me in and out of doorways for a while before I eventually managed to get a couple of backstabs in.  Being chaotic I picked up the fake elixir and ended up with 2 slimes for the price of one, but the experience still gave me a fighter level.

On the road south I liberated a letter from a ogrillon before persuading a hobgoblin to donate some new boots and a helmet.  Just for a change I talked nicely to the mercenaries on the road, though did confront the one chasing Viconia.  He seemed to think it was a good idea to target hold person on Tiana, which made killing him rather simpler.

I've left the DH assassins on the road for now (normally take these out with Algernon's cloak, but I'm trying not to use this), but still got enough XP for level 3 thief / level 2 mage.  With the help of her new boots Rowntree's stealth ability is up over 90% so it's becoming somewhat easier to hide.

Modifié par Grond0, 11 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[Grond0]

Update on Rowntree's progress.  Continuing down the road to Nashkel I accepted Lord Foreshadow's ring (though I can't see it will be of any use to me) before heading to Firewine Plains.  As indicated earlier I think I need to get my reputation back up to allow for the acquisition of Bhaal healing abilities and some xvarts offered one opportunity.  I had to try and sleep 4 times to get the necessary spell before taking them on.  Three of the xvarts saved against sleep, which was more than I expected, but managed to cut them down in time anyway.  The ogre tribe mostly fell to backstabs and all that practice paid off with his best yet attempt with a one-shot critical on a wolf.  Ioin chased me closely and took quite a while to put away, but gave me another fighter level.  Billy went down to a couple of backstabs, but Dribben managed to inflict my first damage since Candlekeep before expiring.  Arghain and his half-ogres were too slow to be a problem - considered taking his +1 2H sword, but stuck with the long sword I'm proficient in - while the ettercap was lured out of his cave to be dealt with.

Another failed rest to get my sleep back resulted in enough XP for a further thief / mage level before stopping off at the crossroads to deal with the caravan bandits.  The supporting bandits were picked off before attacking the leader.  After both a successful backstab and a critical from Tiana he obviously felt flustered and didn't last much longer.  Heading up to the Friendly Arm ran straight into a bandit ambush.  Considered using sleep, but that would have meant taking armour off, so just ran for it and was only hit by one arrow (helmet saving me from a critical).  After replacing Lord Foreshadow's ring with one found in the ground some hobgoblins were dispatched and a ring returned to Joia.  I tend to feel sorry for Tarnesh for some reason, but that didn't prevent me from sneaking up and slicing him apart with a critical.  While at the inn also gave some possessions back to Landrin and, without any inventory worries, picked up some fancy trousers.

Finally in Nashkel I investigated a stash of goods in a field.  Swapped the faded cloak in for Algernon's Cloak (though kept this as a quest item), but decided against the ankheg armour given my propensity to want to hide so much.  After patiently listening to Noober I thought I might get a reputation rise out of Oublek, but my charisma must be too low - so quickly journeyed down to the mines.  Killed a dwarf assassin and put down some dogs in order to drink a healing potion they were guarding.  Then helped out an artist - Greywolf didn't have a potion of speed, so took him down the old-fashioned way with arrows.  Slightly surprisingly my long sword had never broken under the strain of all those backstabs, but still swapped it for Greywolf's improved model.  After receiving my reputation reward (finally back to 10), managed to rest - got rid of that grinding fatigue and also acquired some healing ability.  By now it was night-time and easy to hide, so clearing the rest of the map was straightforward.  One wolf needed two backstabs, but another set a new high-score.

In the mines cleared the first 2 levels - took a bit of work, but with Rowntree's stealth ability automatically successful in the tunnels when out of sight the kobolds presented a backstab bonanza and managed to acquire a new record hit of 64 HP.  However, I'm not sure about being able to take on the duergar yet - I think I might need some web help there, so left them for now until I can get hold of a ring of free action in the next session.
 

Modifié par Grond0, 11 mai 2011 - 05:17 .

[The Fred]

Grond0 wrote...
I had thought from what you said earlier that you were allowing the purchase of ammo anyway.
...
If you get the scroll from the vendor next to her you could use it without moving, which would fit in with the spirit of the challenge (though I'm not sure if you should be allowed to pay for this or not).

The issue with both of these is not having the money to buy them in the first place. I think, for now at least, I will buy a sling and just cheat in ammo whenever I'm in a location where I'd be able to buy it (so nothing more powerful than the vanilla game, given ammo is very cheap anyway). As for Branwen, I might start collecting gold to buy a scroll once I've found her, and stop afterwards, given it's sort of a quest.

[The Fred]

Aithilrin and Imoen get themselves some ammo, then head to the Carnival where they rest. Stupidly, I get myself killed by the mage guy in the tent (Horror + Melf's Acid Arrow).

Deaths: 1 (not counting the first one, since I started again from the start).

I guess I'm just not treating this like a true no-reload. I'll have to be more careful from now on.

Reloading, I decide to tackle him later, and head back to the inn to finish of Neira. I gain a nice helmet and, in the selfless interest of saving Branwen, sell her armour and keep the cash.
I head north to High Hedge, where I find a short sword which I keep because something about it tells me it actually belongs to someone who'd like it back, and a skull which I name Wilson (my one true friend in the world).

On the way south, I'm ambushed by hobgoblins. Imoen uses Sleep to great effect, but one of them has a bow, so I flee (Aithilrin has AC 0, but only 8 hp still!). A wolf nearly kills us, waking up from a Command spell to deal 9 damage to Imoen, but we kill it and rescue a befouled apprentice named Melicamp (heh, "befouled"). We flee from more hobgoblins, then kill a flind, gaining Imoen a two-handed longsword and a level up. Her short sword, and a flamedance ring we collect, are sold to Thalantyr for the Branwen fund. We then return Melicamp. Poor Wilson sacrifices himself for a spell which returns the apprentice to human form (thankfully!) gaining us 2000 XP and a reputation boost.

So, Aithilrin is still L1/1, but he's not far from gaining a Cleric level, and Imoen is L3. I might try and reach L2/2 before rescuing Branwen (I think that will make her join at L5), so I'll probably return Mirianne's letter and do some other menial tasks to get him to L2/1 and then maybe try for Brage.

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...
A wolf nearly kills us, waking up from a Command spell to deal 9 damage to Imoen, but we kill it

I never realised that you could use command on wolves - what a great idea.  I can just imagine a character called Barbara Woodhouse saying "DOWN".

[The Fred]

Aithilrin and Imoen lead Karlat a merry chase around the Red Sheaf. Imoen gets hit, and their Sleep spells seem ineffective, but they emergy victorious to return Perdue his short sword - enough to get Aithilrin a Cleric level and a paltry 2 hp. We deliver Mirianne's letter, earning a magical ring which I will treasure, and check the price of Stone to Flesh scrolls at the nearby temple (225gp, a lot less than 500, but more than we currently have). Then we head south to Nashkel again, killing some wild dogs through liberal use of Sleep on the way, and have a chat with Noober, who's even more annoying than Aithilrin. We feel like better people for it, though... somehow.

One thing I've definately been noticing is the inability to rest in inns. I've been OK so far, but I can imagine that interruptions out in the wild could become a problem. I'll have to keep one Sleep or so spare in future.

Grond0 wrote...
I never realised that you could use command on wolves - what a great idea.

I guess I just never really thought about it before. It's pretty useful, though, at low levels when even a single wolf is dangerous.

[The Fred]

I realise, with some upset, that Aithilrin's been running around in Splint Mail, which (with my mods) allows him to cast mage spells (hence my not noticing), but at a 40% failure rate! I think his large shield actually adds to that, too. However, I think the AC is just to valueable anyway, and he's relying mainly on Command at the moment. I'm actually thinking of getting Imoen some studded leather.

We go back to the Coast Way, where we kill an ogre and take his belt, since it's magical, and his pearl, to fence for the Branwen fund. Whilst resting, Aithilrin finally has his mysterious dream which results in the gain of a useful Cure Light Wounds ability.

Since we now have more money than we need, we buy Firebead a book, but gracefully leave the one he gives us in return, and decide to stop picking up valueables again.

I intend to save Branwen, but she could have been like that for years, so a few more days won't matter, so we head to the Friendly Arm Inn, where we agree to retrieve Joia's flamedance ring. I'm wondering whether I'm up to taking on Tarnesh - it's surely doable, but I'm not sure how safely. Does anyone know if vanilla Bard song grants immunity to fear? I hear it does in BG2, that's all.

Current party:
Aithilrin Cleric 2/Mage 1, sling, favourite spell Command.
Imoen Bard 3, bow and two-handed sword, favourite spell Sleep.

With the XP split between the pair and again between Aithilrin's classes, leveling has been a little slow (I thought I had the BG1 Quest and Encounters Pack installed, but don't, and for some reason the Great Gazib and His Amazing Exploding Ogre didn't show up at the carnival, either), but both are close to gaining levels - hopefully the next quest should do that, and I'll probably pick up Branwen and do Brage and Gurke's cloak.

[Grond0]

The Fred wrote...

One thing I've definately been noticing is the inability to rest in inns. I've been OK so far, but I can imagine that interruptions out in the wild could become a problem. I'll have to keep one Sleep or so spare in future.

I always sleep at the edge of the map anyway to allow a speedy exit if I don't fancy whatever has interrupted me - although as most monsters don't have distance attacks I can normally just run round them and shoot them up without having to exit.

Since we now have more money than we need, we buy Firebead a book, but gracefully leave the one he gives us in return, and decide to stop picking up valueables again.

You paid for the book - disgraceful (when its available in the house next door to him anyway).

for some reason the Great Gazib and His Amazing Exploding Ogre didn't show up at the carnival, either

Did you check the time - he's there most of the day-time, but not all of it?

Modifié par Grond0, 12 mai 2011 - 04:18 .

[Grond0]

Decided to pick Samuel up while I was in the area as I would be heading past the Friendly Arm anyway.  Also picked up a fire resistance ring (swapped for ring of wizardry as I don't use mage spells much anyway).  As I was slightly wounded at least I got a benefit from one of the potions given as a reward for Samuel's return.  Pushing north I killed a zombie in the fishing village (being chaotic I wasn't bothered about honouring her contract) and agreed to help some fishermen against a rogue priestess.  Tenya tried to talk her way out of it, but I wasn't having any of it and cut her down (unusually without even hiding first).  Avoiding the ankheg for now I pushed on to Ulgoth's Beard. 

Although I still have Algernon's Cloak I'm now treating that just as a quest item, not as usuable, so spent several rests to try charm spells out on Dushai.  Unfortunately he seems to be immune to standard charm person (I think I remember checking this before actually), so I tried pickpocketing him.  This obviously failed, but the aim was to get him away from the villagers and I then beat down his stoneskin by dodging in and out of houses.  Regrettably Delfsvirftanyon went hostile even before I saw him and as a result all the local peasants except those scripted to talk to me are now hostile.  However, the only one to attack was Delfsvirftanyon, who got parked in a neighbouring house (I suspect he would cause a reputation drop so didn't try and kill him).  Dushai's ring replaced the ring of protection I had on before (he also had a web scroll, but unfortunately that's the one second level spell I already know).

With the ring on I travelled back to Nashkel and dealt with Neira before heading on to the mines.  The web spell was useful in holding Gorken while I backstabbed him twice (I thought his potions of speed made him the most dangerous), which brought a thief/mage level.  The remainder were then backstabbed to death dodging round the tunnels.  The thief did manage to hit with one shot, but fortunately this didn't poison me.  With plenty of potions on the bodies I healed and took a potion of speed before attacking the next lot of kobolds.  Also acquired a suit of plate +1 to replace my studded leather.  I was tempted by the shield +1, as most encounters now involve backstabs rather than the longbow, but stuck with the bow for the time being.  One reason for this was that the kobolds would chase me round even when I was hidden, so it was difficult to pick off stragglers with backstab.  At one point they actually managed to surround me,

but I managed to hack a way out with my first attack and escaped with minimal damage.  After the hard work of clearing the almost unending stream of kobolds out of the way with my bow I reverted to backstab to prevent the shaman casting any nasty spells and the chief soon went the same way. 

All that action provided another fighter level, so Rowntree was level 5/4/5 when attacking Mulahey.  I didn't bother resting to get web or sleep for this deciding I could rely on stealth, which worked fine - just took 4 damage from the very last skeleton, when I relaxed slightly.

Modifié par Grond0, 12 mai 2011 - 11:13 .

[The Fred]

Nice work, Grond!

Grond0 wrote...
You paid for the book - disgraceful (when its available in the house next door to him anyway).

I have to admit, I was a little unhappy about buying it, but I treated it as a quest item, and it was only 3gp. If I'd have know I could have gotten it in the house, I would have, though.

for some reason the Great Gazib and His Amazing Exploding Ogre didn't show up at the carnival, either

Did you check the time - he's there most of the day-time, but not all of it?

I thought it might be this - it was night-time when I went. I'll probably pop back later on.

Haven't done much more with Aithilrin yet, we cleared the hobgoblins which earned Imoen another level (she's L5 now, but has no 2nd level spells), and decided to bite the bullet and face Tarnesh. Two consecutive Commands kept him down whilst we killed him, though he did manage to hit Immy with a Magic Missile as he died. Playing this challenge as an arcane caster under core rules with minimal reloads is also tough on spell learning - Tarnesh's Magic Missile and a Shield I found on a hobgoblin were both wasted, the two I wanted most - but then, Aithilrin did sacrifice Intelligence to get 18 Wisdom.

[Grond0]

The forum kicked me out in the middle of posting earlier - hence the late addition of some photos to my previous post.  Escaping from the back door to the mines I very nearly came a cropper against Elka.  She nearly died from my initial backstab, but managed to shoot me with a poisoned arrow just before she was killed and the poison went on and on ...  Eventually it stopped with only 2 HPs left - in fact it was only my decision to get Bhaal healing ability that saved me just long enough.  Fortunately there were no ambushes on the way back to Nashkel carnival to recuperate.  There I dealt with yet more kobolds, exploded my own ogre and backstabbed Vitiare (he-he).  Using his thieving potion enabled me to successfully pickpocket a stone to flesh scroll and send Branwen on her way.  Also stole and quaffed potions of heroism and giant strength from the red potion seller and used these initially against Zordral and then Nimbul. 

Took a trip to the gnoll stronghold under stealth to pick up the tome there (I'm trying to avoid too many confrontations now so that XP keeps to reasonable limits).  Although I didn't have identify memorized I thought tomes should be treated as quest items to avoid lack of balance for non-mage/bards so stuck it in the back-pack for later.  Followed up by going to the lighthouse area to sneak in and take the tome there - Molkar & co tried to intercept me en-route, but I just ran away as there are too many mage spells that would result in instant death.

Back in Beregost I confronted Tranzig, though not until I'd taken the precaution of covering his room with a web.  My first backstab didn't kill him, but he panicked and didn't last much longer.  Teven provided us with a lift to the bandit camp and another web came in handy against Tazok, who would otherwise have been a handful with his potion of speed (unfortunately I didn't manage to kill him though to take his bracers).  I had in mind to kill the bandits using my normal tactic of a web in the corner of the map

However, with the bandits having anything up to 50 HP each it was hard to kill even one of them at a time.  Eventually after 4 or 5 trips back and forth from the Friendly Arm I changed tactics and just let them chase me round the bandit camp while I shot them up.  As with the kobold earlier the bandits homed in on me even when under stealth, so backstabbing was not really practical.

With the exterior area clear I entered the tent.  Again tried out a web, with the aim of taking down the mage quickly.
 
As with the bandits it sort of worked, but I couldn't do damage quickly enough to take proper advantage.  Again the fact that everyone would try and surround me when stealthed make it impossible to nip in and out with backstabs and difficult enough for normal attacks.  At one point 4 of them came back outside with me and I was worried when Hakt poisoned me, but fortunately his poison was no-where near as virulent as Elka's earlier and I still had a reasonable margin in hand when it finished.  As with the other bandits the crew would follow me everywhere on the map even when stealthed, which ruled out backstabbing, but I eventually picked them off and went back to complete the job in the tent.  Britik was kind enough to be sitting on an invisibility scroll and a potion of perception improved open locks just enough to get access to most of the camp treasure - this provided scrolls for fireball, horror, stinking cloud, agannazar's scorcher and flame arrow - all successfully learned.  Rowntree's starting to feel like a proper mage now.

Feels good to have got this far without dying - next stop the cloakwood.  Rowntree is now level 5/5/6 having made 433 kills to date.

Modifié par Grond0, 12 mai 2011 - 11:48 .

[Grond0]

I knew I shouldn't have tempted fate.  In the Cloakwood took a first risk by confronting Seniyad.  He shrugged off damage and called down a vicious bolt of lightning.

Fortunately I was able to hide behind a partition in the house when he followed me in and waited before his summoned nymphs disappeared to web him and finish him off.  His supporting druids were no trouble, but all that effort only got a potion of heroism.

In the second area I decided that centeol would be too much.  Being chased by sword spiders would give no chance to hide and with so many creatures about the chances of being boxed in would be high.  Hence went on to the third area.  Here I took another risk by taking on Miranda.  She only just survived an initial back-stab, but I missed with 2 follow-up shots and she got off a rigid thinking - her companions did the rest FIRST DEATH.  I reloaded from the start of the area and this time there was no way she was going to survive a critical back-stab. 

Avoiding the remainder of the druids I pressed on to the mines.  The initial guards were easy meat and provided a new record back-stab.  Then tried to web the party there, but Drasus broke out quickly and was too fast to avoid, so had to retreat.  Tried to come back and take him on alone, but was no clearly no match for him in a fair fight so retreated again to reselect spells.  This time combination of 2 invisibilities, flame arrow, 3 LMDs took him down far enough that a few hits from my sword were able to finish him.  The mages were also a problem as their stoneskins prevented backstabs.  Used ranged tactics to wear them away slowly, which was risky as they got a few spells off.  Was blinded once - managed to hide in a corner until it wore off, but saved against a chaos and spook.  Once the stoneskins finally fell both mages succumbed to single backstabs and the various guards and black talons were no problem thereafter (although Tytus impressively survived 4 back-stabs for 149 HPs before falling to the fifth - shame I had to leave his girdle of frost giant strength).

Next step will be to dive down into the mines.

[The Fred]

Grond0 wrote...
Although I didn't have identify memorized I thought tomes should be treated as quest items to avoid lack of balance for non-mage/bards so stuck it in the back-pack for later.

I guess not being able to identify these is a bit hard, since you can't then use them... on the other hand, I can't think of how you'd go about it without a high-lore character in your party. Maybe we should just allow them to be cheat-identified or something (I mean, they're books. Which you read).