314 réponses à ce sujet

[Everwarden]

Persephone wrote...

So you're saying everyone who liked the changes either works for Bioware or is a shill?

Anyone using the argument I described in that very post, not anyone who likes DA2. If someone claims that the haters just can't "handle change" is either Mike Laidlaw wearing this:



Or a shill. 

[Everwarden]

OhoniX wrote...
But good and bad are subjective terms, and things that you found bad, other people may have found good. 

This argument rings hollow, and strikes me as the last desperate shield to use to defend a horrible product. This "Well that's just your opinion!" line can be used to defend -LITERALLY- any game, or book, or movie. And it seems like this is all the pro-DA2 faction on this forum can muster, these days.

If someone brings up a problem such as the complete lack of emotional connection with your sibling dying in the opening, because you've had no chance to get to know them or give a rat's ass, someone will just pull that "Well that's just subjective!" card. You'd think that someone could come up with a better reply. 

and it certainly doesn't mean that they "owe" the players anything other than the game they delivered

Someone was nice enough to link the promised features bullet list, but just so you don't have to scroll up...

Key Features:

    * Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
    * Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
    * Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
    * Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
    * Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

Those promises were either half kept or outright broken. Bioware owes us a game that meets the standards they advertised, and that sure wasn't the game that we got in the box. 

[Everwarden]

aftohsix wrote...

Callling people who have a different opinion than you "shills" is trolling too.  Wittle timmy.

Not if it's accurate.

[KilrB]

Everwarden wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

Callling people who have a different opinion than you "shills" is trolling too.  Wittle timmy.

Not if it's accurate.

Did you come here to discuss this topic, or to get it locked?

While I agree with you sentiments about DA2 I would appreciate it if you didn't resort to personal attacks.

EDIT:

That goes for you too aftohsix ...

EDIT:

I know that I too have a tendency to get heated but we should all try not to become the stereotype that the other points to and yells "SEE, I told you so!".

Modifié par KilrB, 12 mai 2011 - 05:40 .

[Everwarden]

KilrB wrote...

While I agree with you sentiments about DA2 I would appreciate it if you didn't resort to personal attacks.

'Personal attack' is overstating it a bit. 

[Gotholhorakh]

Oh my God, if one more person reveals to us all that opinions are subjective.

Where would we be without this? We'd be lost. Lost in a world full of blindingly obvious things without anybody to archly point them out to us. Imagine that.

Better still, imagine this:

Can't we all just assume that everyone knows their opinion is subjective because that's obvious and they're not a moron, rather than saying "OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE - YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID" in every other post on every thread on this forum, because somebody had the audacity to like/dislike something?

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 12 mai 2011 - 05:55 .

[Warheadz]

EA Should build a Bioware Blimp. This Bioware Blimp would pick up all the forum-goers and have a massive party onboard. That would gain approval from me at least.

And after the party is over, Gaider, Woo and Priestly could turn it into their very own Sky Fortress of Doom and Evil. Then they could just go and drop ninja templars from the blimp on all unwary fools who complained about unrealistic waves.

[erynnar]

Did people like/love the game? Yep. Did people dislike/hate the game? Yep.

Was the game a great game? Nope (bugs, rushed, plot holes, etc...). Was it a horrible game? Nope (it was still playable, well except for bugs where people are waiting on a patch, so hopefully won't be unplayable when they get it) But all in all it is playable (enjoyment may vary, this is about the game).

So that puts it in the meh of a game playable category which some people found very enjoyable to play, and do still, and which others can't play at all or replay. Still it is a game that can be played and enjoyed with varying degrees.

Is it a game worthy of BioWare if it is meh and playable? I have to go with no because I saw the non-meh talent and epic potential. So it is a fluke for a company with as much talent as BioWare has. Will I be careful about DA3? Yes, yes I will. Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

[Redneck1st]

Everwarden wrote...

OhoniX wrote...
But good and bad are subjective terms, and things that you found bad, other people may have found good. 

This argument rings hollow, and strikes me as the last desperate shield to use to defend a horrible product. This "Well that's just your opinion!" line can be used to defend -LITERALLY- any game, or book, or movie. And it seems like this is all the pro-DA2 faction on this forum can muster, these days.

If someone brings up a problem such as the complete lack of emotional connection with your sibling dying in the opening, because you've had no chance to get to know them or give a rat's ass, someone will just pull that "Well that's just subjective!" card. You'd think that someone could come up with a better reply. 

and it certainly doesn't mean that they "owe" the players anything other than the game they delivered

Someone was nice enough to link the promised features bullet list, but just so you don't have to scroll up...

Key Features:

    * Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
    * Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
    * Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
    * Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
    * Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

Those promises were either half kept or outright broken. Bioware owes us a game that meets the standards they advertised, and that sure wasn't the game that we got in the box. 

I would fully have to agree with you here as this game wasn't so much a "whole new adventure" so much as a bunch of various quest thrown together and shipped out.

The combat wasn't to bad I'll have to admit that there.

As for new areas a small handfull of areas which were re-used over and over again.

Unlike DAO; DA2 had no real story line and no real set goal. DAO you had to stop the Blight. Your actions through out the game matter. DAO not so much as no matter what you decide at the end both Orsino and Meredeth turn on you.

Heck even DAO-A was done allot better than DA2.

[TheTranzor]

erynnar wrote...
 Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

That's the same tactic I use when I pick up chicks at the grocery store. 

[KilrB]

erynnar wrote...

Did people like/love the game? Yep. Did people dislike/hate the game? Yep.

Was the game a great game? Nope (bugs, rushed, plot holes, etc...). Was it a horrible game? Nope (it was still playable, well except for bugs where people are waiting on a patch, so hopefully won't be unplayable when they get it) But all in all it is playable (enjoyment may vary, this is about the game).

So that puts it in the meh of a game playable category which some people found very enjoyable to play, and do still, and which others can't play at all or replay. Still it is a game that can be played and enjoyed with varying degrees.

Is it a game worthy of BioWare if it is meh and playable? I have to go with no because I saw the non-meh talent and epic potential. So it is a fluke for a company with as much talent as BioWare has. Will I be careful about DA3? Yes, yes I will. Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

We are all certainly hoping this was a fluke.

They tried several things that have potential.

They "fixxed" way too many things that were never broken.

They changed others, it's seems, for no more reason than to be able to say "look what I did!".

It is not a game worthy of the Bioware name. At least not the Bioware that we knew ...

All of the platitudes that I have heard thus far from EA/Bioware and the defenders of DA2 here about how they are "considering all the feedback" etc. are part and parcel of what got us here.

That's why I started this topic, and I'm still waiting for someone else to come up with a suggestion besides the same old stale "wait and see".

I am not being dismissive of their future efforts, but neither will I be pre-ordering them or rushing out to buy the on release day ... not anymore.

Meanwhile, their competition beckons ...

[Redneck1st]

KlrB I fully agree with you in reagards to not pre-ordering or buying them on the release date either. DA2 showed me that it's not a good idea. While some of the stuff that they gave us as DLC's were good the game itself could have been a whole lot better.

[flexxdk]

At the moment, there's nothing BW or EAW or whateva can do to influence / improve / increase / assume direct control over my approval meter.

Either DA3 has to be a **** good game, or they should release an Enhanced Edition of DA2, which is free for those who already have DA2.
Knowing EA, the latter won't be happening.

[erynnar]

TheTranzor wrote...

erynnar wrote...
 Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

That's the same tactic I use when I pick up chicks at the grocery store. 

Hey that restraining order says 100 ft....

[erynnar]

KilrB wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Did people like/love the game? Yep. Did people dislike/hate the game? Yep.

Was the game a great game? Nope (bugs, rushed, plot holes, etc...). Was it a horrible game? Nope (it was still playable, well except for bugs where people are waiting on a patch, so hopefully won't be unplayable when they get it) But all in all it is playable (enjoyment may vary, this is about the game).

So that puts it in the meh of a game playable category which some people found very enjoyable to play, and do still, and which others can't play at all or replay. Still it is a game that can be played and enjoyed with varying degrees.

Is it a game worthy of BioWare if it is meh and playable? I have to go with no because I saw the non-meh talent and epic potential. So it is a fluke for a company with as much talent as BioWare has. Will I be careful about DA3? Yes, yes I will. Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

We are all certainly hoping this was a fluke.

They tried several things that have potential.

They "fixxed" way too many things that were never broken.

They changed others, it's seems, for no more reason than to be able to say "look what I did!".

It is not a game worthy of the Bioware name. At least not the Bioware that we knew ...

All of the platitudes that I have heard thus far from EA/Bioware and the defenders of DA2 here about how they are "considering all the feedback" etc. are part and parcel of what got us here.

That's why I started this topic, and I'm still waiting for someone else to come up with a suggestion besides the same old stale "wait and see".

I am not being dismissive of their future efforts, but neither will I be pre-ordering them or rushing out to buy the on release day ... not anymore.

Meanwhile, their competition beckons ...

Yeah, I am still just confused by the 180 and fixing things that weren't broken about DAO.

[Morroian]

SphereofSilence wrote...

I didn't read everything that was said before in this thread. But without a doubt in my mind, the very best course of action for the DA team is to emulate the process by which Casey Hudson, the executive producer of Mass Effect series, took feedback from the players on ME1 and made MASSIVE improvements across the board for ME2, resulting in the one of the highest rated game for XBox360, in the history of EA/Bioware. It's a simple idea, but I believe one that has proven to be effective if making a great game/franchise is the goal of Bioware.

The changes made to DA2 were similar to those made for ME2 in fact ME2 went further away from being an rpg than DA2 did, and initially they were received badly, not quite as badly as DA2 but still badly. What mitigated the ME2 case is that the series is seen as more of shooter rpg hybrid whereas DAO is seen as a traditional rpg.

[erynnar]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

KilrB wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Did people like/love the game? Yep. Did people dislike/hate the game? Yep.

Was the game a great game? Nope (bugs, rushed, plot holes, etc...). Was it a horrible game? Nope (it was still playable, well except for bugs where people are waiting on a patch, so hopefully won't be unplayable when they get it) But all in all it is playable (enjoyment may vary, this is about the game).

So that puts it in the meh of a game playable category which some people found very enjoyable to play, and do still, and which others can't play at all or replay. Still it is a game that can be played and enjoyed with varying degrees.

Is it a game worthy of BioWare if it is meh and playable? I have to go with no because I saw the non-meh talent and epic potential. So it is a fluke for a company with as much talent as BioWare has. Will I be careful about DA3? Yes, yes I will. Careful, and cautious, not dismissive.

We are all certainly hoping this was a fluke.

They tried several things that have potential.

They "fixxed" way too many things that were never broken.

They changed others, it's seems, for no more reason than to be able to say "look what I did!".

It is not a game worthy of the Bioware name. At least not the Bioware that we knew ...

All of the platitudes that I have heard thus far from EA/Bioware and the defenders of DA2 here about how they are "considering all the feedback" etc. are part and parcel of what got us here.

That's why I started this topic, and I'm still waiting for someone else to come up with a suggestion besides the same old stale "wait and see".

I am not being dismissive of their future efforts, but neither will I be pre-ordering them or rushing out to buy the on release day ... not anymore.

Meanwhile, their competition beckons ...

Yeah, I am still just confused by the 180 and fixing things that weren't broken about DAO.

EA wanted DA2 to "appeal to a wider market". I belive that's PR-speak for "We just want moar of teh monies. NAOOO!"

Hmm, I wonder how that worked out? I would be interested to know the stats on did they pick up enough new fans to make up for, and surpass, the numbers of the core fans they lost (and no not all core fans are lost, I know this)? 

[Morroian]

KilrB wrote...

All of the platitudes that I have heard thus far from EA/Bioware and the defenders of DA2 here about how they are "considering all the feedback" etc. are part and parcel of what got us here.

That's why I started this topic, and I'm still waiting for someone else to come up with a suggestion besides the same old stale "wait and see".

Suggestions have been made maybe not in this thread but elsewhere even from DA2 defenders, myself I have said in the past that they have to release a toolset. Obviously fix the bugs (even thought they aren't any greater than DAO), and they should look at implementing unhooking the camera for targetting.

[Maverick827]

KilrB wrote...

Is anyone in a responsible position @ EA/Bioware looking at was has happened here and saying ... "maybe we should have ..."?

...more mature fans?

[Khayness]

Maverick827 wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Is anyone in a responsible position @ EA/Bioware looking at was has happened here and saying ... "maybe we should have ..."?

...more mature fans?

Not the target audiance, sorry.

[Persephone]

Maverick827 wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Is anyone in a responsible position @ EA/Bioware looking at was has happened here and saying ... "maybe we should have ..."?

...more mature fans?

You mean people who don't use rapier wit ala "Lamelaw", "Laidlow" or "Lielaw"? Or who don't think "Button awzum" jokes are the funniest bit of comedy since "Some Like It Hot"....even at the 500th time? Some of these things are more repetetive and annoying than the enviroments in DAII. 

Not a chance, it seems.

[Hurbster]

Nah, nothings more repetitive than those...