314 réponses à ce sujet

[KilrB]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

KilrB wrote...
Reasonable OP

I've thought about this long and hard - it's quite difficult without knowing the minutiae to analyse what's happened, and there has been some defensive behaviour that has been downright destructive in terms of press releases, etc.

I know that a lot of us would like to be able to do something, come up with some approach that could help to salve the issues caused by the decisions made over DA2, the subsequent reception of them and the handling of the situation after that.

Now I'm a software developer, I understand the pressures of seeing a product through to release, of having to implement things you know are stupid and be called all kinds of fool for doing so by the people who asked for it in the first place, or even by users, and I've also been a lead developer in the past, so I know, perhaps, some of the pressure that will be at play - there will be many ways in which BioWare will be paralyzed now that the pinata has been whacked; things they might want to do, both friendly and not-so-friendly, which are just not doable at this point. It is apart from anything else, still the product of lots of work by a number of people.

For these reasons I wouldn't expect anybody to come running forth from the BioWare cave apologising for their product, or committing to 6 months of non-stop work to tick the boxes of every random person who dropped a small amount of money on the DVD.

I think that from a PR standpoint, if one wanted to "repair" the relationship issues that have arisen, there has to be a clear acknowledgement of people's concerns, and that not everyone who has felt the game fell short is some kind of deplorable/naive smeghead.

Also, once there has been this, you can actually talk to people on a level - the fanbase is not stupid, and if the situation as it now stands is "we have learned lessons, but ultimately we can only fix the game going forward, we're not even vaguely in a position to retrofit things for free", then TELL PEOPLE THAT.

Some kind of decent human interaction really, some kind of behaviour appropriate to the notion that, even if you disagree with those people, the game prevents refunds and you have their money in the bank, y'know? Common sense stuff.

Even if fact, as it stands, sucks - being on a level and appearing to give a rat's behind would be a start. You can get more out of a relationship with paying customers by not riding rough-shod over their concerns.

Maybe if Cat had been in charge ...

[Danfalc85]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

 Or take the re-design of the elves; some people love the new look - others (like myself) think they look downright silly - how can any developer please both camps?

So different people want/expect different things from DA - and I do not envy the Bioware staff trying to find a way to satisfy both camps.

In general I struggled to enjoy Dragon Age 2. But I actualy quite liked the way elves looked. I have always thought it would be good if Elves were more than slighlty thinner people with pointy ears looks wise. But I have to be honest, that's personal choice for me. It would not effect my enjoyment level one little bit if they back tracked.

Sadly for other areas, I don't think it's as simple, and your last sentance sums it up brilliantly. Whatever side of the fence you sit on, it has to be accepted that the commuinity is split. The exact reasons are argued over, but it seems like a lot of people who loved Origins were utterly dissapointed In da2.

Where some people who hated Origins seem to enjoy Da2. And of course there are people who break the above examples, and some things everyone can agree on such as the same cave being recycled.

So how I see it, Dragon Age 2 managed to attract new fans to the genre, the completley alienated some who were happy with the existing forumula. That's not to say we would not of been happy with any changes, rather I think it reflects some of the dramtic changes the series has taken. It's now up to Bioware if they wish to carry on alienating Origins fans but gaining new ones, or try and please both.

So far, it seems like Bioware has just gone into damage control mode. All the interviews I have read involves a lot of question dodging and excuse making. That's the scary thing for me, how can they fix something, or even make a comprimise if they don't admit there is a problem in the first place. So I honestly believe they need to adress the criticism. It's damaging confidence in the series and causing tension on the boards. 

[erynnar]

Danfalc85 wrote...

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

 Or take the re-design of the elves; some people love the new look - others (like myself) think they look downright silly - how can any developer please both camps?

So different people want/expect different things from DA - and I do not envy the Bioware staff trying to find a way to satisfy both camps.

In general I struggled to enjoy Dragon Age 2. But I actualy quite liked the way elves looked. I have always thought it would be good if Elves were more than slighlty thinner people with pointy ears looks wise. But I have to be honest, that's personal choice for me. It would not effect my enjoyment level one little bit if they back tracked.

Sadly for other areas, I don't think it's as simple, and your last sentance sums it up brilliantly. Whatever side of the fence you sit on, it has to be accepted that the commuinity is split. The exact reasons are argued over, but it seems like a lot of people who loved Origins were utterly dissapointed In da2.

Where some people who hated Origins seem to enjoy Da2. And of course there are people who break the above examples, and some things everyone can agree on such as the same cave being recycled.

So how I see it, Dragon Age 2 managed to attract new fans to the genre, the completley alienated some who were happy with the existing forumula. That's not to say we would not of been happy with any changes, rather I think it reflects some of the dramtic changes the series has taken. It's now up to Bioware if they wish to carry on alienating Origins fans but gaining new ones, or try and please both.

So far, it seems like Bioware has just gone into damage control mode. All the interviews I have read involves a lot of question dodging and excuse making. That's the scary thing for me, how can they fix something, or even make a comprimise if they don't admit there is a problem in the first place. So I honestly believe they need to adress the criticism. It's damaging confidence in the series and causing tension on the boards. 

The question is, how many new fans did they get as opposed to how many they lost of the core group they had to start with? Did they lose so few that the new will not only make up for the lose of the core group and actually exceed their numbers? Or did they fall back or are they just treading water?

 I guess only time will tell on that (dlc or exansions, or preorders for DA3). Though the sales numbers don't look so good. So I am not sure they managed to attract more of the new fans they were looking for. I'll say it again, making RPGs for people who don't like RPGs is not a good idea. They should have stuck with what they know, and  the audience who loved what they had and improved on it (yes that means change but not rebooting).

[Morroian]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

I think that from a PR standpoint, if one wanted to "repair" the relationship issues that have arisen, there has to be a clear acknowledgement of people's concerns, and that not everyone who has felt the game fell short is some kind of deplorable/naive smeghead.

While what you say is correct there is the issue that as representatives of a public company they are extremely limited in what they can say.

[xXJayeDuBXx]

Realmzmaster wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

KilrB wrote...
They cannot, or will not, admit they have made a big mistake.

They also cannot, or will not, admit they faked the moon landing.  Because they didn't.

What can be done now if they keep making games like DA2, only improve the broken mechanics.

Two dev teams would be neat.  Team one makes the odd numbered games, team two make the even numbered games.  But would that make sense from a perspective of return on investment?  I have no way to know.

Assuming they made a mistake is opinion. If I am not wrong Bioware is already broken into four development teams which are working on different projects. I do not see EA/Bioware making more teams unless they are working on new IP. Also what about the writers. It hard enough to write for one game. Now you want to spread the resouces even thinner. Becuase it is not likely EA will hire more writers and be able to keep story continuity. I do not see the return on investment either.

Assuming they made a mistake is very much an opinon. I for one love DA2 so for me it's a hit. Can't people leave this poor horse alone, it's been beaten so badly that there's almost nothing left of it.

I for one was not happy that DA2 was not like Origins. When I was able to look past that something amazing happened, I had fun. I don't fault people for wanting something more like Origins, it was a good game, but it was not perfect.

[erynnar]

KilrB wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

KilrB wrote...
Reasonable OP

I've thought about this long and hard - it's quite difficult without knowing the minutiae to analyse what's happened, and there has been some defensive behaviour that has been downright destructive in terms of press releases, etc.

I know that a lot of us would like to be able to do something, come up with some approach that could help to salve the issues caused by the decisions made over DA2, the subsequent reception of them and the handling of the situation after that.

Now I'm a software developer, I understand the pressures of seeing a product through to release, of having to implement things you know are stupid and be called all kinds of fool for doing so by the people who asked for it in the first place, or even by users, and I've also been a lead developer in the past, so I know, perhaps, some of the pressure that will be at play - there will be many ways in which BioWare will be paralyzed now that the pinata has been whacked; things they might want to do, both friendly and not-so-friendly, which are just not doable at this point. It is apart from anything else, still the product of lots of work by a number of people.

For these reasons I wouldn't expect anybody to come running forth from the BioWare cave apologising for their product, or committing to 6 months of non-stop work to tick the boxes of every random person who dropped a small amount of money on the DVD.

I think that from a PR standpoint, if one wanted to "repair" the relationship issues that have arisen, there has to be a clear acknowledgement of people's concerns, and that not everyone who has felt the game fell short is some kind of deplorable/naive smeghead.

Also, once there has been this, you can actually talk to people on a level - the fanbase is not stupid, and if the situation as it now stands is "we have learned lessons, but ultimately we can only fix the game going forward, we're not even vaguely in a position to retrofit things for free", then TELL PEOPLE THAT.

Some kind of decent human interaction really, some kind of behaviour appropriate to the notion that, even if you disagree with those people, the game prevents refunds and you have their money in the bank, y'know? Common sense stuff.

Even if fact, as it stands, sucks - being on a level and appearing to give a rat's behind would be a start. You can get more out of a relationship with paying customers by not riding rough-shod over their concerns.

Maybe if Cat had been in charge ...

Now if Cat were in charge everyone in DA2 would be dressed to kill...no gray furniture people!   Ah I love Red Dwarf!  

And yeah, I don't expect, or even want an apology. I just want to be treated with respect and as if I have intelligence (which I do) and as if I am a reasonable person (which I am, most of the time). I am not a smeghead (most of the time).

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

The question is, how many new fans did they get as opposed to how many they lost of the core group they had to start with? Did they lose so few that the new will not only make up for the lose of the core group and actually exceed their numbers? Or did they fall back or are they just treading water?

 I guess only time will tell on that (dlc or exansions, or preorders for DA3). Though the sales numbers don't look so good. So I am not sure they managed to attract more of the new fans they were looking for. I'll say it again, making RPGs for people who don't like RPGs is not a good idea. They should have stuck with what they know, and  the audience who loved what they had and improved on it (yes that means change but not rebooting).

I think making RPGs for people won't don't like RPGs is a great idea.  If there's really that much of a market for what you think RPGs should be, then making RPGs for a wider group could bring more people over to the market.

As for sticking to the old audience, why should they?  If they make more DAO/BG/NWN games... I'll go back to playing other games.  I only picked up DAO out of nostalgia cause the old style bored me.

[Redneck1st]

Personally the lack or re-playability. I'd like games like DAO, NWN, BG series for which once you played through them you wanted to play through them again. DA2 just didn't have that for me. Heck I got board with DA2 halfway through the 3rd play through and went and loaded up NWN and I'm playing that one currently. Just over a week and TW2 will be out. Hope it lives up to it's hype as DA2 didn't.

[Night Prowler76]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

erynnar wrote...

The question is, how many new fans did they get as opposed to how many they lost of the core group they had to start with? Did they lose so few that the new will not only make up for the lose of the core group and actually exceed their numbers? Or did they fall back or are they just treading water?

 I guess only time will tell on that (dlc or exansions, or preorders for DA3). Though the sales numbers don't look so good. So I am not sure they managed to attract more of the new fans they were looking for. I'll say it again, making RPGs for people who don't like RPGs is not a good idea. They should have stuck with what they know, and  the audience who loved what they had and improved on it (yes that means change but not rebooting).

I think making RPGs for people won't don't like RPGs is a great idea.  If there's really that much of a market for what you think RPGs should be, then making RPGs for a wider group could bring more people over to the market.

As for sticking to the old audience, why should they?  If they make more DAO/BG/NWN games... I'll go back to playing other games.  I only picked up DAO out of nostalgia cause the old style bored me.

Customer retention is a big part of a companies success, your post makes no sense.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Customer retention is a big part of a companies success, your post makes no sense.

Reread my post.  You can't retain what only dropped by out of nostalgia.  :P:P 

If there was still a market for DAO games, there would be other games like DAO.  There aren't.  :)

[Redneck1st]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

erynnar wrote...

The question is, how many new fans did they get as opposed to how many they lost of the core group they had to start with? Did they lose so few that the new will not only make up for the lose of the core group and actually exceed their numbers? Or did they fall back or are they just treading water?

 I guess only time will tell on that (dlc or exansions, or preorders for DA3). Though the sales numbers don't look so good. So I am not sure they managed to attract more of the new fans they were looking for. I'll say it again, making RPGs for people who don't like RPGs is not a good idea. They should have stuck with what they know, and  the audience who loved what they had and improved on it (yes that means change but not rebooting).

I think making RPGs for people won't don't like RPGs is a great idea.  If there's really that much of a market for what you think RPGs should be, then making RPGs for a wider group could bring more people over to the market.

As for sticking to the old audience, why should they?  If they make more DAO/BG/NWN games... I'll go back to playing other games.  I only picked up DAO out of nostalgia cause the old style bored me.

Customer retention is a big part of a companies success, your post makes no sense.

Night I fully agree with you and if they put out another DA like 2 they will lose customers not retain them.

[erynnar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

erynnar wrote...

The question is, how many new fans did they get as opposed to how many they lost of the core group they had to start with? Did they lose so few that the new will not only make up for the lose of the core group and actually exceed their numbers? Or did they fall back or are they just treading water?

 I guess only time will tell on that (dlc or exansions, or preorders for DA3). Though the sales numbers don't look so good. So I am not sure they managed to attract more of the new fans they were looking for. I'll say it again, making RPGs for people who don't like RPGs is not a good idea. They should have stuck with what they know, and  the audience who loved what they had and improved on it (yes that means change but not rebooting).

I think making RPGs for people won't don't like RPGs is a great idea.  If there's really that much of a market for what you think RPGs should be, then making RPGs for a wider group could bring more people over to the market.

As for sticking to the old audience, why should they?  If they make more DAO/BG/NWN games... I'll go back to playing other games.  I only picked up DAO out of nostalgia cause the old style bored me.

Because making RPGs for people who don't like them, and alienating the people who do like them is shooting yourself in the foot if you lose the core audience you gained already. Word of mouth made DAO a  long time hit, it already spread to people who didn't usually play RPGs because of word of mouth from people who played it.

DA2 seems to be having the opposite problem. It was made to appeal to a crowd who mostly play CoDs, MMORPGs, and FPS exclusively. It tried to wear too many hats, and serve too many masters. It alienated the core support (which was faithful and trusting), on which they had made a strong foundation with which to keep building. A solid foundation to build on what they already did best and which people loved and brought more people into (who fell in love with it too). So instead of building on what they got right, and keeping that strong foundation, they took a jackhammer to it, busted it to hell, and then tried to build on a crumbled mismash which they cobbled together by using the powdered remains of what they did before to make the thinnest of mortars to make them stick together.

And before you bring up the stinkin' turd of an argument of well the core people can't stand change, that isn't what it's about, and that argument had been flushed down the toliet where it belongs. I don't have  a problem with change (there are some I really liked) and the story was a great idea. But it was poorly implemented reboot that  made a disjointed mess out of something that could have been epic, and it got padded with waves of combat, and cinematics to cover that we paid more, and got less.

Did people enjoy it? **** yeah! Are they stupid for doing so? HELL NO! And neither are people like me who didn't and see it for what it could have been.

I hope they take the best of DAO and DA2 (and yes there were good things) and make DA3 even more epic than both. Here's hopin'.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Redneck1st wrote...

Night I fully agree with you and if they put out another DA like 2 they will lose customers not retain them.

If they put out another like DAO, they will also lose customers.  The game for BioWare is how to make a game that's going to attract you and attract me.

[Night Prowler76]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

Night I fully agree with you and if they put out another DA like 2 they will lose customers not retain them.

If they put out another like DAO, they will also lose customers.  The game for BioWare is how to make a game that's going to attract you and attract me.

False statement, DAO has over 4 million in sold through sales, DA2 hasnt even reached 2 million in sold through sales, and will be lucky to sell 2.5. They tried that that already, it was called DA2, if they want more sales, they will go back to the winning formula, not the one that sold half as much.

[Lumikki]

I just leave my disagreement here as I don't think Biowares new direction is wrong. I do agree that using short cuts for cost efficiency can be issue for game quality and players enjoyment. My point is there is no mistake, except the short cut design. Other issues are more taste of games than anything else. Bioware should not be afraid to try new things, even if it doesn't allways work well.

[Night Prowler76]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Customer retention is a big part of a companies success, your post makes no sense.

Reread my post.  You can't retain what only dropped by out of nostalgia.  :P:P 

If there was still a market for DAO games, there would be other games like DAO.  There aren't.  :)

If you have a valid point, please make it, you are just talking in circles and not adding anything to the thread.  Your first sentence doesn't even make sense.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

DA2 seems to be having the opposite problem. It was made to appeal to a crowd who mostly play CoDs, MMORPGs, and FPS exclusively. It tried to wear too many hats, and serve too many masters. It alienated the core support (which was faithful and trusting), on which they had made a strong foundation with which to keep building. A solid foundation to build on what they already did best and which people loved and brought more people into (who fell in love with it too). So instead of building on what they got right, and keeping that strong foundation, they took a jackhammer to it, busted it to hell, and then tried to build on a crumbled mismash which they cobbled together by using the powdered remains of what they did before to make the thinnest of mortars to make them stick together.

Whoa, leave some hyperbole for the rest of us!     

I hope they take the best of DAO and DA2 (and yes there were good things) and make DA3 even more epic than both. Here's hopin'.

We can high five here!  :lol:   As long as it isn't more of the old games, I'll be in.

[Lumikki]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

If you have a valid point, please make it, you are just talking in circles and not adding anything to the thread.  Your first sentence doesn't even make sense.

Why?

His point was that if you make hardcore RPG's just for old fans, they are stuck with they old customer base. Other possibility is trying to lure people in RPG's who aren't hardcore RPG's, but can enjoy lite way action RPG's. Example, I my self can play both types just fine.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 mai 2011 - 12:06 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

If you have a valid point, please make it, you are just talking in circles and not adding anything to the thread.  Your first sentence doesn't even make sense.

The sentences make perfect sense.  What's happened here is that you have no rebuttal and you got embarrassed by my joking with you, so you're acting like nothing makes sense.  :lol:

So hey, I apologize.  I'm sorry for the joke.  :)

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Lumikki wrote...

Why?

His point was that if you make hardcore RPG's just for old fans, they are stuck with they old customer base. Other possibility is trying to lure people in RPG's who aren't hardcore RPG's, but can enjoy lite way action RPG's. I my self can play both types just fine.

He knows that.  He's just angry about the joke earlier.  :) 

Ideally, for me, DA3 would be a hybrid... but lean strongly toward to DA2.

[Redneck1st]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

Night I fully agree with you and if they put out another DA like 2 they will lose customers not retain them.

If they put out another like DAO, they will also lose customers.  The game for BioWare is how to make a game that's going to attract you and attract me.

False statement, DAO has over 4 million in sold through sales, DA2 hasnt even reached 2 million in sold through sales, and will be lucky to sell 2.5. They tried that that already, it was called DA2, if they want more sales, they will go back to the winning formula, not the one that sold half as much.

I fully agree with you here as I got more enjoyment out of DAO than that for which I got out of DA2. In DAO I was looking forward to playing through it again and again as there were different things that happened in each play through, although small they were there none the less. This included the ending. Where as in DA2 no matter what you do or whose side you chose you have to take on both Meredeth and Orsino. No real sense of accomplishing anything at all.

[Scimal]

KilrB wrote...

It has alienated many of us who consider ourselves "old-school" or "hard-core" ©RPG players.

We can argue about whether either term truly applies to DA:O elswhere.

The response from EAware, to this point, has done nothing but exacerbate these feelings of outrage and alienation.

They cannot, or will not, admit they have made a big mistake.

Why should they? So a studio they're partnered with and/or own makes a mediocre RPG experience. It wasn't a bad game. It wasn't a great game. It's about par for the course, maybe a bit better than your average RPG experience.

What would an apology from EA do? If you found the response from EA insulting, the easiest way to make them care is to not buy their games.

Of course, DA2 players who feel insulted are probably less than 5% of their total gaming population, so they won't notice it that much. In the end, it's probably better to just move on.

Add to this that EAware has not attracted the new customers, and their cash, that they had hoped for and it would seem that (imo) they have painted themselves into a corner.

At least until the next game.

They need their, formerly, loyal customers.

I wouldn't even think about it at this point. Many of those "formerly" loyal customers are either so cheesed off that there's nothing (short of completely renovating the next game) that could be done to bring them back, or will buy DA3 anyways.

The problem with the RPG genre has always been the loyal customers - because they're so hard to please unless every game is similar enough to remind them of the game that brought them into the genre, but also different enough that it looks like the genre is going forward.

How can they please both and still make a profit?

They can't, and won't. Formerly loyal customers want things to go backwards, when BW will - at best - meet them halfway. For some that would be enough, for others it wouldn't.

The easiest thing to do is to take the manageable criticisms of DA2 and continue to try and attract new fans to replace the old fans.

EAware has expressed it's intent to make it's IPs generate year round income.

Many have taken this to mean yearly releases, with dlc content between releases.

IF this is so, and IF EAware cares, my proposal would be two developement teams.

One team to work on a more ©RPG centric game in the fashion of DA:O and the other to continue with the current

direction of DA2 in the action game venue.

It won't happen. It's too expensive. It's fairly common to have to pay double the person's salary in business expenses, meaning that if you hire someone for $30k/year, you end up paying $90k/year to have them produce work.

I believe this would adequately satisfy both the fans and EAware.

Then again, I may not be able to see the forest for the trees.

I look forward to your critiques and, if necessary, rants.

It's too expensive.

[Aurelet]

Realmzmaster wrote...

@CaptainBlackGold
Changing companion armor for me was not a deal breaker because I had played that way in other Bioware games NWN (NeverWinter Nights) were you are unable to change your henchmen's gear. It changed on level up. So it was not something new to me. I could see why other gamers thought is was a deal breaker. I try to understand both sides of the argument. Yes Bioware will have a tough time pleasing both camps. Because once you give some gamers a new cookie it is tough to take it away. While other gamers do not like the favor of the new cookie.

I'm guessing the "not being able to change companion armor" had something to do with your companions having a unique body style?

So maybe, when you find a nice piece of armor that you aren't able to use, you could either sell it for the cash, or sacrifice it to change the stats for the companion you would have put it on.  Then if you find another piece of better armor, sacrifice it for the companion and lose the previous piece.  Much like the enchantment works.

[erynnar]

Scimal wrote...

KilrB wrote...

It has alienated many of us who consider ourselves "old-school" or "hard-core" ©RPG players.

We can argue about whether either term truly applies to DA:O elswhere.

The response from EAware, to this point, has done nothing but exacerbate these feelings of outrage and alienation.

They cannot, or will not, admit they have made a big mistake.

Why should they? So a studio they're partnered with and/or own makes a mediocre RPG experience. It wasn't a bad game. It wasn't a great game. It's about par for the course, maybe a bit better than your average RPG experience.

What would an apology from EA do? If you found the response from EA insulting, the easiest way to make them care is to not buy their games.

Of course, DA2 players who feel insulted are probably less than 5% of their total gaming population, so they won't notice it that much. In the end, it's probably better to just move on.

Add to this that EAware has not attracted the new customers, and their cash, that they had hoped for and it would seem that (imo) they have painted themselves into a corner.

At least until the next game.

They need their, formerly, loyal customers.

I wouldn't even think about it at this point. Many of those "formerly" loyal customers are either so cheesed off that there's nothing (short of completely renovating the next game) that could be done to bring them back, or will buy DA3 anyways.

The problem with the RPG genre has always been the loyal customers - because they're so hard to please unless every game is similar enough to remind them of the game that brought them into the genre, but also different enough that it looks like the genre is going forward.

How can they please both and still make a profit?

They can't, and won't. Formerly loyal customers want things to go backwards, when BW will - at best - meet them halfway. For some that would be enough, for others it wouldn't.

The easiest thing to do is to take the manageable criticisms of DA2 and continue to try and attract new fans to replace the old fans.

EAware has expressed it's intent to make it's IPs generate year round income.

Many have taken this to mean yearly releases, with dlc content between releases.

IF this is so, and IF EAware cares, my proposal would be two developement teams.

One team to work on a more ©RPG centric game in the fashion of DA:O and the other to continue with the current

direction of DA2 in the action game venue.

It won't happen. It's too expensive. It's fairly common to have to pay double the person's salary in business expenses, meaning that if you hire someone for $30k/year, you end up paying $90k/year to have them produce work.

I believe this would adequately satisfy both the fans and EAware.

Then again, I may not be able to see the forest for the trees.

I look forward to your critiques and, if necessary, rants.

It's too expensive.

Again *sigh* that assanine argument rears it's head.  The "the ones who don't like DA2 are afraid of change," or "they want to go backwards." This argument is utter ****e, it was when it was trotted out way back when, and it still is a turd.  You can play with that turd, rearrange it, sprinkle it with glitter, or sugar, or put a bow on it and it stil is just a decorated piece of crap.  

Not all change is good, as is evidenced by DA2 continuing to plummet sales.  DAO was not stagnating if it sold 4 mil and counting. It had a winning formula, a great foundation for those tweaks, and changes that would take what sold 4 mil and make it sell 7 mil by keeping what worked in DAO, and fixing what was broken, spicing up what was meh, and springboarding into new things from that strong foundation.

From that foundation, they did draw in new customers by word of mouth and the game still draws people in. DA2 tried to wear too many hats and serve too many masters. It rebooted a winning formula instead of using it to make DA2 even more epic and fell flat on its face. Trying to grab the group that doesn't like RPGs while telling the ones that loved them because they did RPGs well that we didn't matter as much as the new fans they wanted, made BioWare fall flat on it's face. They made a hybrid and it pleased very few, angered many, and left most with a bad taste for a bland meh game that is unworthy of BioWare and its rep.

Did I hate it? Nope. It was meh, and it could have been better than DAO.

[DanConnors]

     This may or may not have been said before, but I'll say it again.  THE BASIC MISTAKE IS TO TRY TO MAKE A GAME THAT WILL APPEAL TO COMPUTER GAME PLAYERS AND CONSOLE GAME PLAYERS.
     By and large the two groups of users are quite different.  It seems that developers have quit making games solely for PC users even though there are over a billion personal computers in use.  Microsoft is largely responsible for that with their constant release of new OS's (each one designed to make previous versions obsolete).  This effort shows up in DA2 which will not allow Windows XP users to upgrade their video, even though my quad core, 8 thread, 6 Gbyte RAM, 1 TByte HDD was perfectly capable of doing so.  It's had no trouble upgrading video for any other newly released game.  It might be interesting to check and see if EA got any money from Microsoft for this gesture.
     If developers have come to believe that it's a waste of money to try to develope games that will appeal to a potential market of one billion users, that's a sad commentary on the whole industry.  Another check that can be made relatively easily is to see what percentage of DAO sales were to PC users and what to console game players.  Then do the same to DA2.  If the check shows DAO had more PC buyers and DA2 more console game buyers, that's a clear indication, to me, that EA is beginning to abandon its PC user base.  If that's true they will continue to ignore the complaints from their former fans.

Modifié par DanConnors, 10 mai 2011 - 04:12 .