314 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I don't think you make RPGs to make money. Too much redundancy and waste in the design for a game that is played once, or not finished (in the majority).

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]  

You make them because that is what you want to make. Like the guys making the Witcher2 etc.

:lol: 


*wipes away tears*

Phew!  That was a good laugh.  Of course BioWare make games to make money... so the employees can pay their bills for their families.  See how long anyone with a family does any kind of art when it's not paying the bills.  Outside of romance novels and biopics on the mentally ill, it doesn't happen.

And no, there's never =enough= money, or enough sales.  :lol:  Grow = survive.  Relax = fail.

[Scimal]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Oh, but I will go there and it doesn't matter if you chose low or high scores to make a point for good measure. That's why I don't bite on gaming site reviews. I could go ahead and pick some bad scores and throw in a good one as well for another view, but that isn't the correct overall picture. My contention to your claim is that you said DA2 was generally praised over Origins.

I said the gameplay was generally praised over Origins.

Plus, if you wanted "Independent" sources, you should've asked for Independent sources. In your post, you implied you either wanted "media outlets" or "gaming sites."

But since you're using gaming site scores, I have dismissed those claims. Seriously, they are subjective since those sites are ad-dollar supported (not all though).

So, you won't accept my proof because you're suspicious of something that may or may not exist. Even the low-scoring sites (like RPGamer.com), which are most-likely not to be paid to give reviews.

Give me independent sites or nothing.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm supposed to please someone who's so paranoid that they didn't even check the links to see if their paranoia was subjectively verified or not... But here's a link for you.

http://angryjoeshow....i-angry-review/
@1.45s: "I think [the changes to gameplay] are fine. Better than fine. Fantastic! It's a lot more intense..."

You can't really get more independent than Angry Joe. Next you're going to tell me his opinion is invalid because he sticks to console games, or he plays FPS games, or whatever completely invalid excuse you have laying in wait...

But, since you used that, I'll give you Gamerankings aggregate scores between the two games gleaned from all of the review sites, it isn't pretty.

Origins (PC) aggregate overall ranking among gaming site reviews: 90.50%

DA2 (PC) aggregate overall ranking among gaming site reviews: 78.92%

Using all platforms gives about the same result as an average.

And... Why do I care? I wasn't talking about overall score. I was talking about gameplay. I was talking about gameplay because it'd be easier to take what's good from DA2 (that which has been generally liked over DA:O's version) and patch up what's missing, address what was generally disliked as much as possible, and make another sequel.

I said that because my original point was that the OP's plan of having two teams alternate between the very slightly different types of games that are DA:O and DA2 so that a 2-year development time could be had for each one in order to appease the fans of both would be too expensive for EA to run. They're just more likely to take the good bits from DA2 and continue from there.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Oban1961 wrote...
I never cared about Mass Effect myself - I prefer "full" RPGs to all these hybrids with some "RPG elements" in them. I thought of Dragon Age as Bioware's

[snips]

Do you think it is wise to neglect your fans and your games in favor of money? If so, I cannot fault you for being a company trying to make a buck. It just won’t be my buck anymore.

Where are all the "full" RPGS?  If there are so very many fans, shouldn't there be a half dozen "full" RPG games for sale right now... games just like DAO/BG/NWN?  Who is actually being neglected?

BioWare would be nuts to make more games like DAO.  I won't buy them.  I think there are so few "full" RPGs on the market right now that the so called "core" fans will buy a game like DA2 rather than play nothing.  They'll ****, they'll moan, they'll complain, but they'll play it.  And DA2 will appeal to a whole new group of people who might never have played RPG when they were tedious and boring.  I think whatever they lose in your bucks, they're going to make up as the audience expands.

As time goes on, we'll be able to point out that certain people are bad mouthing a series...  yet they always play the games in the series...  Even friends will start to wonder what's going on there.  ;)

[Kilshrek]

EAWare can improve relations by approving of more comics like this.
[image containing inappropriate language removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 mai 2011 - 07:53 .

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Oban1961 wrote...
I never cared about Mass Effect myself - I prefer "full" RPGs to all these hybrids with some "RPG elements" in them. I thought of Dragon Age as Bioware's

[snips]

Do you think it is wise to neglect your fans and your games in favor of money? If so, I cannot fault you for being a company trying to make a buck. It just won’t be my buck anymore.

Where are all the "full" RPGS?  If there are so very many fans, shouldn't there be a half dozen "full" RPG games for sale right now... games just like DAO/BG/NWN?  Who is actually being neglected?

BioWare would be nuts to make more games like DAO.  I won't buy them.  I think there are so few "full" RPGs on the market right now that the so called "core" fans will buy a game like DA2 rather than play nothing.  They'll ****, they'll moan, they'll complain, but they'll play it.  And DA2 will appeal to a whole new group of people who might never have played RPG when they were tedious and boring.  I think whatever they lose in your bucks, they're going to make up as the audience expands.

As time goes on, we'll be able to point out that certain people are bad mouthing a series...  yet they always play the games in the series...  Even friends will start to wonder what's going on there.  ;)

DAO was highly successfull for the genre which Bioware make their games, if not one of the most successful on par if not slightly above possibly than Mass Effect (I use possibly because there are conflicting reports about which sold more DAO or ME1 / DAO or ME2).

People keep saying critics fear change I can apply just the opposite to the opposing side they fear stagnation. DAO was not in anyways stagnating and if anything showed in the RPG genre (which Bioware make) it was an huge success in fact rivaling the success of the action RPG of Mass Effect. DA2 over same period as DAO say in one year and 6 months currently I believe, will not reach same level of sales as DAO which did not need free copies of another series in order to promote sales (ME2) and did not drop its price by almost 60% within the first month at least not here in the UK while DA2 did both those things. You  could pick up (new copy) DA2 within a month of release here for £14 (which included a free copy of ME2 which retailed at £18-24) from one of the biggest retailers Amazon down from £40 only one month prior. 

The only way to bring in the FPS crowd is to make an FPS, there is no large scale proof that changing from DAO to DA2 brought in a large amount of new players no more so than the sequel could have brough in on ts own given the EA hype and advertising and the free copy of Mass Effect 2 along with the massive price drop so short after release.

Bioware had two styles of RPG with ME series and DA series now they have one style which is cinematic action RPGs this is a narrowing of styles and reducing the variety of games Bioware produce.

The sales figures dubious tactics that EA use of dumping vast amounts of stock on retailers probably using incentives in order to bump up the appearence of success for it's shareholders does not mean more people/players bought the game and fanbase increased. just means there are far more stock on shelves unsold right now. The fanbase is hardly expanding anymore so than the sequel to DAO would have done in the first place even if they just took baby steps and improved DAO bit by bit not radical change in method and idiology that they did with DA2.

Paid review sites and retailers giving the game high scores and reviews is not to be trusted as I know someone within the sector and informed me that big publishers have in past held off and stopped sending them copies to review when they give one of their products a bad review, therefore I am of the opinion the only ones to trust are user reviews and that is what we are doing here in the CC thread.

People cannot say the most of the people like the game and just don't come on here to talk about it as proof of how liked it is or use sales as proof they liked it since you cannot show how many returned it or ebayed it or left it gathering dust while they go play ME or DAO instead. I know a lot of people who buy games including some DA2 and hated it, just because they don't come on here doesn't mean they like it. As a sample of buyers these forums are acceptable as a snap shot of what perception is regarding the game.

BioWare would be nuts to make more games like DAO.  I won't buy them.

Bioware would be nuts to make more games like DA2. I won't buy them. ~Works both ways. DA2 only got away with the preorders because people were hoping that it would be like DAO (not expecting just hoping). They do not have that luxury anymore with DA3. DA2 is not more successful than DAO if remove the preorders from the people that hoped it would be like DAO and add on to that the dubious nature of dropping stock on retailers to give the false impression of quick and huge sales that EA have done then figures/numbers would be well down.

If it was just about making money then they wouldn't be making RPGs it's as simple as that. RPG is a niché market and always has been. As for what can be done now, imho it would have to be very big DLC which is plot based with many choices that are shown to matter and in a big way. A lot of new areas and items too. It won't change how I view DA2 but it will change how I feel about whether Bioware do/don't listen to what people have said on here about what they want in the DLC and what was lacking in the game. 

@Kilshrek ~Loved the pic btw especially the "It will have [breasts] in it" phrase/section made me laugh.
 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 mai 2011 - 05:06 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
People keep saying critics fear change I can apply just the opposite to the opposing side they fear stagnation.

I haven't seen any suggestions recently that the critics fear change.  It's a simple charge to rebut, so it seems like some people keep going back to it and ignore the other issues.  For example, if "full" RPGs (BG/NWN/DAO) are so popular, why are they so rare?  Also, stagnation does suck.

DAO was not in anyways stagnating and if anything showed in the RPG genre (which Bioware make) it was an huge success in fact rivaling the success of the action RPG of Mass Effect. DA2 over same period as DAO say in one year and 6 months currently I believe, will not reach same level of sales as DAO which did not need free copies of another series

ME2 was given away free with DA2 to boost sales of ME3.  If I see a game that looks boring, a free game from the same publisher isn't going to entice me to buy the boring game.

The only way to bring in the FPS crowd is to make an FPS

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Bioware had two styles of RPG with ME series and DA series now they have one style which is cinematic action RPGs this is a narrowing of styles and reducing the variety of games Bioware produce.

I think you have to get used to it.  I'll take an experience I can connect with and enjoy over one I have to read and fiddle through meus with in a heart beat.  Now, there's no reason for BioWare to adandon either taste, so the challenge for them is going to be making something that draws both audiences.  That means compromise.  The way games were presented in the past is gone... To me, that sentence ends with "hopefully for good."

Paid review sites and retailers giving the game high scores and reviews is not to be trusted as I know someone within the sector and informed me that big publishers have in past held off and stopped sending them copies to review when they give one of their products a bad review, therefore I am of the opinion the only ones to trust are user reviews and that is what we are doing here in the CC thread.

Payola, playola.  I'm sure we're all aware that every single major website out there is created to make someone money so they can pay their bills.  It makes sense to protect the hand that feeds them.  So no, you cannot trust professional review sites.  They're unofficial extensions of marketing departments.  They have an agenda.

User reviews cannot be trusted either.  Plenty of users have their own agenda to push.  ;)  Read through most of the criticism threads... at some point in there you're going to see someone who doesn't like DA2 say something along the lines of "That'll teach you BioWare!  Trying to bring in through lowly FPS scrubs!"  Metacritic is packed with that junk.  

"Tragically," people have to think for themselves.  Do what I do.  Check a game out, read the both sets of biased reviews, sprink with salt, and eventually check it our for yourself.

As a sample of buyers these forums are acceptable as a snap shot of what perception is regarding the game.

No.  The absolute maximum you can deduce from these forums is what perception of a game is among the people who post on these forums.

DA2 is not more successful than DAO if remove the preorders from the people that hoped it would be like DAO and add on to that the dubious nature of dropping stock on retailers to give the false impression of quick and huge sales that EA have done then figures/numbers would be well down.

Specious bolded.  You can't prove they are giving false info unless you have the real data to prove it.  :D:D  You're letting your feeling cloud your judgement.  :)

If it was just about making money then they wouldn't be making RPGs it's as simple as that. RPG is a niché market and always has been.

Not true.  RPGs were one the biggest genre out there because at one point, all gamers were nerds.  There wasn't that much out there for us... beyond Rogue and getting eaten by grue.  Sprite based RPGs were "easy" to do. 

Now, RPG gamers are a much smaller percentage of the population.  Should a corporation (a body that in this context exists to make money) target a small group of people with entitlement issues, or should they aim for a much larger group that just want to have fun and be part of a cool story?

Button = awesome = future, my man.  Button = awesome = future.  I can't wait.  :)

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I haven't seen any suggestions recently that the critics fear change.  It's a simple charge to rebut, so it seems like some people keep going back to it and ignore the other issues.  For example, if "full" RPGs (BG/NWN/DAO) are so popular, why are they so rare?  Also, stagnation does suck.

DAO was not stagnating though as the sales showed, they were as high if not higher than the alternative ME titles which means if you class DAO as stagnating then ME 1 and 2 was aswell using sales as references. Which I applied the fear of change is not the way to go. 

No.  The absolute maximum you can deduce from these forums is what perception of a game is among the people who post on these forums.

The people that post on these forums are also the people that buy/bought the games, just like the average Joe on the high street who does not come here. The only real difference is one thing that being people take time out of lives to come here and forward their opinions and ideas of ways to improve the game(s). Some of which you may agree with or not agree with as far as things they would like to see compared to what you would prefer stayed as or changed. Which is why as I said they are a good enough (sample) of opinion based on people who bought the game.

Specious bolded.  You can't prove they are giving false info unless you have the real data to prove it.  :D:D  You're letting your feeling cloud your judgement.  :)

You are right I do not have proof but I do have logic. Here is what I said regarding that in an earlier post.

"They claim it hit/sold 1 million mark in 2 weeks of release (includes preorders of around 400-600k units) and now they saying in the remaining less than week and half they have sold another million (without the benefit of pre-orders boosting that extra million). It reaks of shifting/dumping off copies on retailers of which I am sure just like most business do mine included, big stock shifts generally go hand in hand with credit notes for returns at a later date for unsold stock (retailer end).

Based off my own personal opinion:

Around March 22nd -DA2 released (+400-600k preorders) > total 1 million hit in 2 weeks 

-We then gain promotional 2 for 1 deal DA2 plus ME2 to celebrate the million mark hit. Along with the much faster price reductions in the UK from the major retailers as exampled earlier than we had with DAO and ME series titles.

-From 22nd March to 31st March (end of fiscal year of which the report is based on) they are claiming they sold another million which is 9 days."

The rest of this debate between us as far as I am concerned is a mere difference of opinion and taste.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 mai 2011 - 05:42 .

[Dormiglione]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Im a Gearhead, played 4600+ ranked matches in Gears of war 2. Over 50 days of playtime in Gears 2. I went on my own through the campaign of Gears1 and Gears2 on Insane (highest difficulty). 

Bought and played DAO and DA2. So what do you think, based on your logic. What do i prefer, DAO or DA2?

[erynnar]

Dormiglione wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Im a Gearhead, played 4600+ ranked matches in Gears of war 2. Over 50 days of playtime in Gears 2. I went on my own through the campaign of Gears1 and Gears2 on Insane (highest difficulty). 

Bought and played DAO and DA2. So what do you think, based on your logic. What do i prefer, DAO or DA2?

Oh this should be interesting...*grabs popcorn and sits to watch the show*

[Dragoonlordz]

@ Erynnar & Alistairlover94

Room for one more? Waiting for Town called Eureka to start in 45 mins time. I got nothing better to do except work and cba with that till later.

I also got many genres of games mostly RPGs but also many FPS and action types too. ~just saying~

[KilrB]

You guys/gals can argue numbers and point a data and statistics all you want, your still wrong.

Sell-in, sell-through, doesn't matter.

The data is misleading because what it won't tell you is how many people will not buy DA3 if the franchise continues down it's current path.

If you and EA expect all the adrenaline junkies who were suckered into buying it to keep it afloat you are going to be disappointed. You've had your one shot at them and they won't be back.

Those of us who want more RP in our G will have plenty of other choices.

Whether it's TW2, Skyrim, Deus Ex, or older games like FO:NV, NWN, or any of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series.

What? Some of those aren't RPG's you say?

That's correct. We can play other games too.

Shocking isn't it?

You see, all along you have completely failed to grasp this simple fact.

DA2 fails not because it is lacking in the rpg elements that we like, it fails because it is a third rate game.

The outrage you hear from some of us over the lack of RP is because we feel we were "mislead" and we see an IP that had great promise being squandered.

At the rate things are going I give it 3 years before EA pulls the plug and it joins MechWarrior, C&C, Shadowrun, Hellgate:London, Tabula Rasa, ...

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dormiglione wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Im a Gearhead, played 4600+ ranked matches in Gears of war 2. Over 50 days of playtime in Gears 2. I went on my own through the campaign of Gears1 and Gears2 on Insane (highest difficulty). 

Bought and played DAO and DA2. So what do you think, based on your logic. What do i prefer, DAO or DA2?

But you're are a specific point, a dainty sunflower of unique specialness!  :P:P  You clearly could go either way.  I think that's pretty obvious. 


I'll repeat what I said:  In can think of a dozen gamers who play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game, as long as the game is fun. 

:lol:

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
The people that post on these forums are also the people that buy/bought the games, just like the average Joe on the high street who does not come here. The only real difference is one thing that being people take time out of lives to come here and forward their opinions and ideas of ways to improve the game(s). Some of which you may agree with or not agree with as far as things they would like to see compared to what you would prefer stayed as or changed. Which is why as I said they are a good enough (sample) of opinion based on people who bought the game.

It is not a good enough example.  The two groups are fundamentally different.  One group cares enough about the game to come here, the other group would rather watch TV or have sex than post with us.  :D:D

You are right I do not have proof but I do have logic. Here is what I said regarding that in an earlier post.

Logic requires concrete facts.  Basing your argument off flawed facts gives you a flawed argument.  You don't actually have anything, sorry man.

The rest of this debate between us as far as I am concerned is a mere difference of opinion and taste.

Hells yes!   High five me, right here!    *High Five*   :lol:

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
It is not a good enough example.  The two groups are fundamentally different.  One group cares enough about the game to come here, the other group would rather watch TV or have sex than post with us.  :D:D

I say that is not enough reason to differentiate the two groups and of my examples validity.

Logic requires concrete facts.  Basing your argument off flawed facts gives you a flawed argument.  You don't actually have anything, sorry man.

I gave you concrete facts, dates and numbers released to us by EA/Bioware and EA's shareholder report. With the addition information of my opinion based on those dates and numbers.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[Redneck1st]

@Rinpoche- I'd like to know where the full RPG's went as well. As I for one love the full RPG's like NWN, BG, DAO for which actually had a plot. Seems like all the game makers out there are going against this form of game play for reason's of their own. One for which I myself don't like as I for one loved games like the afore mentioned and continue to go back and play them again and again. They had a real plot where what you through out the game made sense at the end. Like I said in an earlier post DA2 , at least to me was just a bunch of quest thrown together where in the end your actions through out the game meant nothing. No matter who you sided with the other still turns on you.

@Dragonlordz- Your right I only pre-ordered DA2 because I was hoping that it was going to be like DAO if I had known that changed so much of it and not for the better might I add I wouldn't have pre-ordered the game. I probably wouldn't have even bought the game. Especially with how much they took out of the game as far as choices and role playing ability..

After Pre ordering DA2 and playing it through and being let down. I will think long and hard before I pre order not only another BW rpg but any companies RPG. I'll wait and see what the feed back is from the players first. But if BW puts out another game like DA2 I for one will not be forking out my hard earned money for it.

You see I've still got NWN, BG, and DAO for which I can play which were/are true RPGs for which I enjoy playing.

[Dormiglione]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Im a Gearhead, played 4600+ ranked matches in Gears of war 2. Over 50 days of playtime in Gears 2. I went on my own through the campaign of Gears1 and Gears2 on Insane (highest difficulty). 

Bought and played DAO and DA2. So what do you think, based on your logic. What do i prefer, DAO or DA2?

But you're are a specific point, a dainty sunflower of unique specialness!  :P:P  You clearly could go either way.  I think that's pretty obvious. 


I'll repeat what I said:  In can think of a dozen gamers who play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game, as long as the game is fun. 

:lol:

As long as the game is fun. No, i dont think that it is that simple. I played 10 or more playthroughs in DAO. I love it, the story the conversation and many more things.
DA2 after the first playthrough, i remained disappointed. The next 2 other playthrough were just to unlock all achievements, nothing else.

After my third DA2 playthrough, i restarted a new playthrough in DAO. Walking through the brecilian forest, talking with the elves in their camp. DAO has atmosphere, it takes you in the story.

DA2 was for me like playing as an outsider. It feels wrong.

Played ME1 and ME2. Like both games. Have nothing to complain about ME1 and ME2. For me, ME2 felt like ME1. Played several playthrough unlocked all achievements. Strange, isnt it?

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DAO was not stagnating though as the sales showed, they were as high if not higher than the alternative ME titles which means if you class DAO as stagnating then ME 1 and 2 was aswell using sales as references. Which I applied the fear of change is not the way to go. 

ME2 sold 6.6M reportedly. 

[Redneck1st]

Dormiglione wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I don't think there is an "FPS crowd."  The gamer that plays only FPS games no other game is so rare the idea borders on a fallacy.  I can think of a just over a dozen gamers that play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game.  All the game has to do is be fun to play.  That's all.  Compare DA2's empahsis on playing and DAO's greater emphasis on planning to play and it isn't hard to see which is more fun to most people.

Im a Gearhead, played 4600+ ranked matches in Gears of war 2. Over 50 days of playtime in Gears 2. I went on my own through the campaign of Gears1 and Gears2 on Insane (highest difficulty). 

Bought and played DAO and DA2. So what do you think, based on your logic. What do i prefer, DAO or DA2?

But you're are a specific point, a dainty sunflower of unique specialness!  :P:P  You clearly could go either way.  I think that's pretty obvious. 


I'll repeat what I said:  In can think of a dozen gamers who play many types of games.  It's not hard to lure them into a new game, as long as the game is fun. 

:lol:

As long as the game is fun. No, i dont think that it is that simple. I played 10 or more playthroughs in DAO. I love it, the story the conversation and many more things.
DA2 after the first playthrough, i remained disappointed. The next 2 other playthrough were just to unlock all achievements, nothing else.

After my third DA2 playthrough, i restarted a new playthrough in DAO. Walking through the brecilian forest, talking with the elves in their camp. DAO has atmosphere, it takes you in the story.

DA2 was for me like playing as an outsider. It feels wrong.

Played ME1 and ME2. Like both games. Have nothing to complain about ME1 and ME2. For me, ME2 felt like ME1. Played several playthrough unlocked all achievements. Strange, isnt it?

Dorm

There you go that is why games like DAO, BG, NWN  are such great games they make you feel like your part of the game which I didn't feel that in DA2 at all. I was the same way mid way through the 3rd play through I went and loaded up DAO and I'm playing it once again.

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...
ME2 sold 6.6M reportedly. 

Which report?

EA released information about DAO sales in August 2010 saying DAO sold 3.2 million in the first 10 months (does not include Ultimate Edition which came out October 2010 and has sold extremley well for simple reason price plus all addons included, or as far as I know digital sales plus missing the last 9 months of sales after they released that figure so it will be much higher by now though I cannot verify it yet but if it's less than 6mil+ minimum I would be very surprised).

Now I do not know where you got the information about sales of ME2 or what timescale you are talking, is it till todays date or last year as example, with or without digital sales?

@Alistairlover94 ~ *wave's back*

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 10 mai 2011 - 10:41 .

[Mykel54]

They could if they wanted, by fixing the game, but i don´t think they have the time or manpower to do it. I am talking not about saying "sure we hear your feedback, we´ll do that in the next dlc/game", but instead say "you hate infinite waves? well next patch we make only 2 waves but enemies are stronger, plus now they don´t spawn in thin air but spawn out of player sight and then go to where the player is". Changes like that would help fix the game, or adding one or two new cave models and distribute them among the game. But that ain´t going to happen, seems like bioware wants to focus on delivering next time a better product (smart idea) but fixing the most obvious problems of DA2 would go a long way to restablishing their reputation.

[Rawgrim]

I am kind of reminded of what EA did to Origin. It ended up as a company who just supported Ultima Online. Sad ending for the greatest crpg company ever. With The old republic coming up, I can`t help but feel that Bioware might suffer the same fate.

[Tommy6860]

Scimal wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Oh, but I will go there and it doesn't matter if you chose low or high scores to make a point for good measure. That's why I don't bite on gaming site reviews. I could go ahead and pick some bad scores and throw in a good one as well for another view, but that isn't the correct overall picture. My contention to your claim is that you said DA2 was generally praised over Origins.

I said the gameplay was generally praised over Origins.

Plus, if you wanted "Independent" sources, you should've asked for Independent sources. In your post, you implied you either wanted "media outlets" or "gaming sites."

But since you're using gaming site scores, I have dismissed those claims. Seriously, they are subjective since those sites are ad-dollar supported (not all though).

So, you won't accept my proof because you're suspicious of something that may or may not exist. Even the low-scoring sites (like RPGamer.com), which are most-likely not to be paid to give reviews.

Give me independent sites or nothing.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm supposed to please someone who's so paranoid that they didn't even check the links to see if their paranoia was subjectively verified or not... But here's a link for you.

http://angryjoeshow....i-angry-review/
@1.45s: "I think [the changes to gameplay] are fine. Better than fine. Fantastic! It's a lot more intense..."

You can't really get more independent than Angry Joe. Next you're going to tell me his opinion is invalid because he sticks to console games, or he plays FPS games, or whatever completely invalid excuse you have laying in wait...

But, since you used that, I'll give you Gamerankings aggregate scores between the two games gleaned from all of the review sites, it isn't pretty.

Origins (PC) aggregate overall ranking among gaming site reviews: 90.50%

DA2 (PC) aggregate overall ranking among gaming site reviews: 78.92%

Using all platforms gives about the same result as an average.

And... Why do I care? I wasn't talking about overall score. I was talking about gameplay. I was talking about gameplay because it'd be easier to take what's good from DA2 (that which has been generally liked over DA:O's version) and patch up what's missing, address what was generally disliked as much as possible, and make another sequel.

Aside from the ad hominem use of 'paranoid' at me, when you're using game sites to prove your point, should be reconsidered, since I made a point why gamesites are not the end-all meaning behind the quality of a game. If this is how you need to get your point across, I will not bite any further than this reply, anyway...

Angryjoe, that's his own opinion, but does that mean it is generally "overall", this is your original claim, not Joe's?

I also know you said "gameplay", I guess your definition of "gameplay" isn't very defined. Gameplay, as
typically used in this medium, is the overall theme of the game. Are you talking about pace, style, combat system? You gave sites that are using their overall views of the game, then calling it a "general gameplay", whatever that means to you, you are using their overall reviews as some  indicator. I can just say that those scores I psoted are simply those  same kind of reviews made into aggregate and average. The bottom line is, "you" made the claim, so I can only assume that this is your point of view, which is fine if "you" think it is generally better.

I said that because my original point was that the OP's plan of having two teams alternate between the very slightly different types of games that are DA:O and DA2 so that a 2-year development time could be had for each one in order to appease the fans of both would be too expensive for EA to run. They're just more likely to take the good bits from DA2 and continue from there.

You're going off on a tangent now, what does this have to do with your claim that DA2's gameplay is generally better? I think it's fine if "you" think it is better, since that is how you feel, I wouldn't make any claim otherwise. You posted sites giving their views meaning that it somehow is the overall feel of the game by their standards. I can show you more sites that tell you the opposite, but that means little to those whose personal expereince with the game is what made it for them.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 10 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Morroian wrote...
ME2 sold 6.6M reportedly. 

Which report?

Not a report:

http://www.vg247.com...eynote-develop/