314 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

neppakyo wrote...

What can I say? I love a good ol' orgy.

Looks like you'll need to make room for Tommy.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ringo12 wrote...

Something like this would could have greatly added to immersion. Living world Seriously Gothic II had it, Ultima cities felt really alive and it's much older.

I know the devs don't like Witcher 2 being mentioned but seriously there are some thing's they could really learn from them. Such as even blades of grass blow in the wind, the NPCs all react to your presence and your actions. The setting is not bland by any stretch of the imagination. A actual weather system ever changing clouds, rain, being incredably realistic in execution even NPC that react to it. I do wonder if they even checked out what their competition are upto and what they have produced rather than just locking down anything to do with it.

If Bioware could enhance their engine to do those things the next title would benefit greatly. Same with day and night not being static making a seporate map icon for going somewhere during the day and during the night as done with DA2. There must be some things that Bioware can see the benefit of trying to incorporate into their titles from such games.

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mai 2011 - 12:12 .

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

The Witcher wasn't party based was it. Being party based puts more limitations on the engine than with a sole protagonist. 

[Zanallen]

Morroian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

The Witcher wasn't party based was it. Being party based puts more limitations on the engine than with a sole protagonist. 

Precisely. Bioware seems to have their priorities strictly in the story and companion camps. As such, other aspects get placed to the wayside in favor of said priorities. You can't have everything. Its just not in the budget.

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

The Witcher wasn't party based was it. Being party based puts more limitations on the engine than with a sole protagonist. 

I do not personally find that excuse acceptable. Improve the engine. If I was to accept that excuse then Bioware are doomed to release the same game from now on because apparently their engine cannot improve enough to have wind effects, rain or actual transitioning day/night cycles even NPC reactions to your presence or actions. If they cannot overcome such things within the next few years they are in serious trouble. As their competitors improve and create such features and aspects to their games if Bioware fail to keep up then they are in deep trouble over the coming years like said.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mai 2011 - 12:17 .

[neppakyo]

Zanallen wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

What can I say? I love a good ol' orgy.

Looks like you'll need to make room for Tommy.

Damn...

But DL makes a good point. I've mentioned that <game devs don't want mentioned> before, with the grass, sky, day/night., rain and how NPC's react to it all, and how lively the cities/towns are.

[lobi]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
They argue until they fail and then derail the thread.  :P:P

Speaking of which.
edit: wait did someone just get back on topic? omg

Modifié par lobi, 11 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[lobi]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

lobi wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
They argue until they fail and then derail the thread.  :P:P

Speaking of which.
edit: wait did someone just get back on topic? omg

Yes I did. See? I can stay on-topic, people!

Oh it's a quote from earlier, I guess thats one way of doing it.

[KilrB]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

@Dragoonlordz @AlistairLover -- take it PM's, you lovebirds!  It's not a chatroom.  :innocent::innocent::innocent:

Hey pal, I started this thread and it's OK by me.

Ya wanna squawk about it go start your own.

[Chromie]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Something like this would could have greatly added to immersion. Living world Seriously Gothic II had it, Ultima cities felt really alive and it's much older.

I know the devs don't like Witcher 2 being mentioned but seriously there are some thing's they could really learn from them. Such as even blades of grass blow in the wind, the NPCs all react to your presence and your actions. The setting is not bland by any stretch of the imagination. A actual weather system ever changing clouds, rain, being incredably realistic in execution even NPC that react to it. I do wonder if they even checked out what their competition are upto and what they have produced rather than just locking down anything to do with it.

If Bioware could enhance their engine to do those things the next title would benefit greatly. Same with day and night not being static making a seporate map icon for going somewhere during the day and during the night as done with DA2. There must be some things that Bioware can see the benefit of trying to incorporate into their titles from such games.

TW1 had that. They used BioWare's old Aurora engine, yet it was still livelier than Kirkwall. Goes to show how much more competent CD Projekt Red are at technical stuff, than BioWare is with an updated engine(no offense to BioWare, of course).

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

This would be make Kirkwall more immserive and believable

or
Just gorgeous

[Zanallen]

Ringo12 wrote...

This would be make Kirkwall more immserive and believable

or
Just gorgeous

Since you posted this in an earlier thread, I'll post my response from the same thread:

That would be awesome. However, you have to understand that you can't
have everything. Bioware tends to focus on story and companions, no
matter your opinion on how well they handle that, and so things like
graphics and intricate background NPCs tend to fall to the wayside.
Under EA, Bioware may have quite a budget, but they have to be able to
make back what the game cost plus quite a bit more for the investment to
be worthwhile.

[KilrB]

Now, to summarize:

We've got my suggestion which has been shot down as too expensive ... (makes me wonder how much the corporate officers are banking each year).

We've got two options that have EA/Bioware essentially giving a good potion of it's customers the
finger and telling them to take their money and go shop somewhere else.

Annnd we have the very unlikely possibility that they will find a way to make a single style of game appeal to everyone.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ringo12 wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Something like this would could have greatly added to immersion. Living world Seriously Gothic II had it, Ultima cities felt really alive and it's much older.

I know the devs don't like Witcher 2 being mentioned but seriously there are some thing's they could really learn from them. Such as even blades of grass blow in the wind, the NPCs all react to your presence and your actions. The setting is not bland by any stretch of the imagination. A actual weather system ever changing clouds, rain, being incredably realistic in execution even NPC that react to it. I do wonder if they even checked out what their competition are upto and what they have produced rather than just locking down anything to do with it.

If Bioware could enhance their engine to do those things the next title would benefit greatly. Same with day and night not being static making a seporate map icon for going somewhere during the day and during the night as done with DA2. There must be some things that Bioware can see the benefit of trying to incorporate into their titles from such games.

TW1 had that. They used BioWare's old Aurora engine, yet it was still livelier than Kirkwall. Goes to show how much more competent CD Projekt Red are at technical stuff, than BioWare is with an updated engine(no offense to BioWare, of course).

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

This would be make Kirkwall more immserive and believable

or
Just gorgeous

Agreed, instead of locking or cutting it out or making threats if Bioware cared about the quality of their games they would go and watch that and see if anything in it they can incorporate into their titles. If they do not do such actions regarding the competition (much like how my company checks what our competition is up to and if anything they do can be incorporated into our products), Bioware should do the same.

Especially given their one shining grace was the choice/consequence cause and effect systems throughout their games now other developers have seen the popularity of it and incorporating such features in their games (Eidos, Rockstar, Bethesda, Cryptic and more). If Bioware cannot do the same with other games then they are going to be in trouble sooner or later.

Sorry but the financial aspect is not good enough reason to not try to implement such features. If they can sink truly vasts amounts of time and money into TOR (which may or may not even pay off in the end) they should spend some of that time and money improving their engine imho.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mai 2011 - 12:41 .

[Chromie]

Witcher 2 cost 8 million dollar to make by the way.

[Zanallen]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Since you posted this in an earlier thread, I'll post my response from the same thread:

That would be awesome. However, you have to understand that you can't
have everything. Bioware tends to focus on story and companions, no
matter your opinion on how well they handle that, and so things like
graphics and intricate background NPCs tend to fall to the wayside.
Under EA, Bioware may have quite a budget, but they have to be able to
make back what the game cost plus quite a bit more for the investment to
be worthwhile.

You mean the barely coherent plot of DA2?

And the limited companion interaction. The fact that talking to your companions are now marked in the quest log was...Not to my taste. And how about the companions visiting Hawke's Estate to hang out with Dog. Varric would rather play cards with Dog, than invite Hawke to the poker table.

Please read the sentence right after the one you bolded. Also, would you prefer no companions at all?

[KilrB]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Something like this would could have greatly added to immersion. Living world Seriously Gothic II had it, Ultima cities felt really alive and it's much older.

I know the devs don't like Witcher 2 being mentioned but seriously there are some thing's they could really learn from them. Such as even blades of grass blow in the wind, the NPCs all react to your presence and your actions. The setting is not bland by any stretch of the imagination. A actual weather system ever changing clouds, rain, being incredably realistic in execution even NPC that react to it. I do wonder if they even checked out what their competition are upto and what they have produced rather than just locking down anything to do with it.

If Bioware could enhance their engine to do those things the next title would benefit greatly. Same with day and night not being static making a seporate map icon for going somewhere during the day and during the night as done with DA2. There must be some things that Bioware can see the benefit of trying to incorporate into their titles from such games.

TW1 had that. They used BioWare's old Aurora engine, yet it was still livelier than Kirkwall. Goes to show how much more competent CD Projekt Red are at technical stuff, than BioWare is with an updated engine(no offense to BioWare, of course).

These things might well be limitations on the engine Bioware use but surely they could see the advantage of improving the engine to cover such things or find ways to compete even with them. Even the Witcher 1 engine could do these things and that was a modified version of Biowares engine so it is possible.

This would be make Kirkwall more immserive and believable

or
Just gorgeous

Agreed, instead of locking or cutting it out or making threats if Bioware cared about the quality of their games they would go and watch that and see if anything in it they can incorporate into their titles. If they do not do such actions regarding the competition (much like how my company checks what our competition is up to and if anything they do can be incorporated into our products), Bioware should do the same.

Especially given their one shining grace was the choice/consequence cause and effect systems throughout their games now other developers have seen the popularity of it and incorporating such features in their games (Eidos, Rockstar, Bethesda, Cryptic and more). If Bioware cannot do the same with other games then they are going to be in trouble sooner or later.

Sorry but the financial aspect is not good enough reason to not try to implement such features. If they can sink truly vasts amounts of time and money into TOR (which may or may not even pay off in the end) they should spend some of that time and money improving their engine imho.

How about what was spent to advetise DA2?

You've got to wonder how much they could have improved it with even half of that.

[Zanallen]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Since you posted this in an earlier thread, I'll post my response from the same thread:

That would be awesome. However, you have to understand that you can't
have everything. Bioware tends to focus on story and companions, no
matter your opinion on how well they handle that, and so things like
graphics and intricate background NPCs tend to fall to the wayside.
Under EA, Bioware may have quite a budget, but they have to be able to
make back what the game cost plus quite a bit more for the investment to
be worthwhile.

You mean the barely coherent plot of DA2?

And the limited companion interaction. The fact that talking to your companions are now marked in the quest log was...Not to my taste. And how about the companions visiting Hawke's Estate to hang out with Dog. Varric would rather play cards with Dog, than invite Hawke to the poker table.

Please read the sentence right after the one you bolded. Also, would you prefer no companions at all?

I did read the sentence after. They handled both of those marvelously in previous games. You might even say it was their strongest points. They handled those horribly in DA2, however(IMO). And no, I would not prefer it if they removed the companions. In fact that would upset me a great deal.

And what does that have to do with my statement that Bioware prioritizes companions and story while neglecting reactive enviroments and graphics? Bioware, Ea or no, doesn't have the budget to do everything in one game. Plus, the more expensive the game is to create, the more copies they have to sell to break even, let alone consider it a financial success. If they cut companions, I have no doubt that they could amp up graphics and make the world seem more alive.

[Dragoonlordz]

@Zanallen

There is no acceptable reason why they cannot try their absolute best to incorporate features such as the ones I mentioned, because noone said they had to do it all at once. If in each title they did just one or two things with the engine improving it, each time updating their game engine with the things I talked about and their competitors are doing then in a few titles time everything will be on par and the budget would not have increased much more so than it did for the complete overhaul they did with DA2 engine.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mai 2011 - 12:59 .

[Zanallen]

KilrB wrote...

How about what was spent to advetise DA2?

You've got to wonder how much they could have improved it with even half of that.

You mean EA's marketing budget that has nothing to do with Bioware?

[Dragoonlordz]

Zanallen wrote...

KilrB wrote...

How about what was spent to advetise DA2?

You've got to wonder how much they could have improved it with even half of that.

You mean EA's marketing budget that has nothing to do with Bioware?

EA can increase or decrease their marketing budget as they wish and they can invest more or less from any area within EA to any studio under their umbrella. Just like how they are investing vasts amounts into TOR.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 mai 2011 - 12:58 .