465 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

A couple of key plot points would have had to deviate, or at least be significantly rewritten:

1. Hawke's estate wouldn't work for an elf. Dwarf might be ok, but not elves
2. Family storyline wouldn't work (Bethany as an apostate, All That Remains, etc.). There are plenty of mages in kirkwall, but none of them are apostates that had been living their all their lives and not been picked up by the templars.
3. Where would Aveline come from?

Other stuff that would be problematic:

1. All of Hawke's wearable armors would need male and female elf and dwarf models and textures created.
2. All of Hawke's VO would need to be re-recorded with male and female elf and dwarf voices.

It isn't impossible, but you have to keep in mind that they had a limited development schedule for this.

[bleetman]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Your argument is invalid. Wasn't The Warden either an elf, dwarf or human? and she was the bloody Hero of Fereldan!

Apples and oranges. They're a Grey Warden in the middle of a Blight. They're placed at the epicentre of events due to circumstance, and pre-established status, ie: being made a Grey Warden. They've been seen as legendary save-the-day types for centuries, give or take the odd lapse in memory inbetween.

Hawke doesn't have that, and has to claw his or her way back to it. A dwarf or elf that went on the expedition wouldn't be able to buy back their ancestral noble home in Hightown, shifting the balance of power and causing a stir amongst the human nobility, because they wouldn't have one. I doubt they'd even be permitted to buy property in Hightown.

Modifié par bleetman, 09 mai 2011 - 09:25 .

[bleetman]

So much for 'just change a few lines' though, eh?

[Sylvianus]

Hawke's story is totally feasible with all origins.

The only problem is his family. But the decision to add this element in the Hawke's story may be taken after the decision to limit the new hero to a human.

A decision that anyone can doubt unpopular. No one, no player likes to have fewer opportunities than in the first episode. And all know it. We needed something that could add another dimension with this limitation.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 mai 2011 - 09:47 .

[Youknow]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

A couple of key plot points would have had to deviate, or at least be significantly rewritten:

1. Hawke's estate wouldn't work for an elf. Dwarf might be ok, but not elves
2. Family storyline wouldn't work (Bethany as an apostate, All That Remains, etc.). There are plenty of mages in kirkwall, but none of them are apostates that had been living their all their lives and not been picked up by the templars.
3. Where would Aveline come from?

Other stuff that would be problematic:

1. All of Hawke's wearable armors would need male and female elf and dwarf models and textures created.
2. All of Hawke's VO would need to be re-recorded with male and female elf and dwarf voices.

It isn't impossible, but you have to keep in mind that they had a limited development schedule for this.

1. It could still work for the elf. For one, if they went to the deep roads and amassed that amount of cash, it'd still be enough to purchase the estate, and without the other human Hawke, there wouldn't be a problem with this. You could still be from Lothering fleeing the blight. There were elves in Lothering. They were just treated like garbage. Your rescuer might even have more reason to choose an elf to go to Kirkwall than a human anyways considering where you deliver her "package" anyways. I doubt she cares about your success anyways.
2. Family could still work if you were elves. You could have been a family of elves that were constantly moving around simply because of the fact that you had apostates in your family, but could never actually find the Dalish camps for comfort.
3. Aveline could still be met if you were fleeing from Lothering.

As for the other things, those are problematic, as those would take more time. As for the dwarf and elf voices, those would kinda be problematic, as I'm pretty sure Varric's VA was also Leske, and no one else that wasn't dwarvian. So yeah, the VA is a problem because recording a line 6 times would take a lot of time.

[hoorayforicecream]

Sylvianus wrote...

Hawke's story is totally feasible with all origins.

The only problem is his family. But the decision to add this element in the Hawke's story may be taken after the decision to limit the new hero to a human.

A decision that anyone can doubt unpopular. No one, no player likes to have fewer opportunities than in the first episode. And all know it. We needed something that could add another dimension with this limitation.

It's not impossible to do. It's just improbable. Given the alotted time and technical constraints, they could not complete the game on time for their publisher if they had done this. It would have required significantly larger amounts of developer time, and that would have necessitated cutting other things to make it work. We already know the developers wish they had more time, but that happens on every project. You're only given X months of development time; if you go back to the publisher and ask for more, the publisher usually says "Sure, but we won't pay you for those additional months". As much as developers love making games, most of them like doing things like paying for food and rent more.

[Sylvianus]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Hawke's story is totally feasible with all origins.

The only problem is his family. But the decision to add this element in the Hawke's story may be taken after the decision to limit the new hero to a human.

A decision that anyone can doubt unpopular. No one, no player likes to have fewer opportunities than in the first episode. And all know it. We needed something that could add another dimension with this limitation.

It's not impossible to do. It's just improbable. Given the alotted time and technical constraints, they could not complete the game on time for their publisher if they had done this. It would have required significantly larger amounts of developer time, and that would have necessitated cutting other things to make it work. We already know the developers wish they had more time, but that happens on every project. You're only given X months of development time; if you go back to the publisher and ask for more, the publisher usually says "Sure, but we won't pay you for those additional months". As much as developers love making games, most of them like doing things like paying for food and rent more.

We agree if I read you then. It is indeed for reasons outside of story that the decision was first  made to limit the background.

I never said they had no good reason. It's sad, but if it wastes too many resources, I can understand. I know it will be more difficult in future to replicate such a system like we had in dao, especially without the defects that have been reported.

But it is not unlikely either with resources, time and commitment however.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 mai 2011 - 10:07 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Sylvianus wrote...

We agree if I read you then. it is indeed for reasons outside of story that the decision was first  made to limit the background.

I never said they had no good reason. It's sad, but if it wastes too many resources, I can understand. I know it will be more difficult in future to replicate such a system like we had in dao, especially without the defects that have been reported.

You can't really divest the story from the development though. There will always be a schedule, and always limitations on development. The writers likely felt that they could tell a more involving story if they pared down the critical path. I tend to agree; I felt that DA2 had a much more involving story than DA:O. As a human, Hawke has several things going for him/her - a recognizable claim to noble blood, a family history in kirkwall, and brings plot-relevant characters (Aveline, immediate family) along with. In order to make the entire game congruous, these would all need fairly extensive rewrites.

Once again, not impossible, but it would go too far afield from the critical path of the game for minimal gain. The tradeoff for a larger variety of backgrounds is the generification of the rest of the game in order to accomodate those backgrounds within the amount of development time alotted.

[Serpieri Nei]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

A couple of key plot points would have had to deviate, or at least be significantly rewritten:

1. Hawke's estate wouldn't work for an elf. Dwarf might be ok, but not elves
2. Family storyline wouldn't work (Bethany as an apostate, All That Remains, etc.). There are plenty of mages in kirkwall, but none of them are apostates that had been living their all their lives and not been picked up by the templars.
3. Where would Aveline come from?

Other stuff that would be problematic:

1. All of Hawke's wearable armors would need male and female elf and dwarf models and textures created.
2. All of Hawke's VO would need to be re-recorded with male and female elf and dwarf voices.

It isn't impossible, but you have to keep in mind that they had a limited development schedule for this.

1. Hawke's Estate - can be for a dwarf or an elf - Or have we forgotton about Varic's brother who bought an estate after betraying the party. It's not like they only accepted nobles in Hightown.

2. Family Storyline - can be applied to an elf - there are several examples of Elves not wanting to be part of the circle or were made part of the circle. Dwarves, would also work - with a few minor changes. Afterall, in Hightown they had dwarven statues. 

3. Aveline - would still be there if your character was an elf or dwarf.  


edit - maybe as a Dwarf - Aveline would be dead - shorter legs - may not have gotten there in time to save them 

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 09 mai 2011 - 10:19 .

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Your argument is invalid. Wasn't The Warden either an elf, dwarf or human? and she was the bloody Hero of Fereldan!

You're right. My "argument" is invalid just because you say so. Sorry I even brought anything up

Hey now, just the other day, you removed all bisexuals from existence with your Trufax line. I think this is fair enough.

[Maria Caliban]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

It's not impossible to do. It's just improbable.

I'd suggest that it is impossible.

The question is: Why did Hawke need to be a human?
The answer is: Because a non-human Hawke doesn't fit the story.

All the rebuttals people have offered have changed the story.

For example, in the story, Hawke or his/her sibling is a mage. This is done to give you at least one connection to apostates, and gathering funds in Act 1 is explicitly said to be to protect Hawke or Bethany from Templars.

That story element simply doesn't exist for a dwarf. Yes, you could create a different reason for gathering money and a different reason for fearing the Templars, but that can't be said to be the same story.

[TEWR]

Because no one would see an elf achieve a high social status. Citizens would make sure of that.

And because Dwarves can't use magic.

This is a game detailing the Chantry-Mage-Templar inner civil war, where only a human best fits in. Any other race wouldn't work. All throughout the game you find evidence of the growing tension between the Chantry, Templars, and Mages.

[Serpieri Nei]

Maria Caliban wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

It's not impossible to do. It's just improbable.

I'd suggest that it is impossible.

The question is: Why did Hawke need to be a human?
The answer is: Because a non-human Hawke doesn't fit the story.

All the rebuttals people have offered have changed the story.

For example, in the story, Hawke or his/her sibling is a mage. This is done to give you at least one connection to apostates, and gathering funds in Act 1 is explicitly said to be to protect Hawke or Bethany from Templars.

That story element simply doesn't exist for a dwarf. Yes, you could create a different reason for gathering money and a different reason for fearing the Templars, but that can't be said to be the same story.

Elves mages can be Apostate or have you forgotten the events in DA2?

[Lumikki]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

A couple of key plot points would have had to deviate, or at least be significantly rewritten:

1. Hawke's estate wouldn't work for an elf. Dwarf might be ok, but not elves
2. Family storyline wouldn't work (Bethany as an apostate, All That Remains, etc.). There are plenty of mages in kirkwall, but none of them are apostates that had been living their all their lives and not been picked up by the templars.
3. Where would Aveline come from?

Other stuff that would be problematic:

1. All of Hawke's wearable armors would need male and female elf and dwarf models and textures created.
2. All of Hawke's VO would need to be re-recorded with male and female elf and dwarf voices.

It isn't impossible, but you have to keep in mind that they had a limited development schedule for this.

1. Hawke's Estate - can be for a dwarf or an elf - Or have we forgotton about Varic's brother who bought an estate after betraying the party. It's not like they only accepted nobles in Hightown.

2. Family Storyline - can be applied to an elf - there are several examples of Elves not wanting to be part of the circle or were made part of the circle. Dwarves, would also work - with a few minor changes. Afterall, in Hightown they had dwarven statues. 

3. Aveline - would still be there if your character was an elf or dwarf. 

Aveline has no affect Hawke's race, I agree.

How ever, Dwarf has no magic abilities and Hawkes family is noble. That does create few problems. Not impossible to solve, but difficult. Also elf mages aren't apostates.

Been noble require been human or dwarf.
Magic requires been human or elf.

Okey few assumptions.

Both parens are same race?
 - Dwarf is out, because no magic in family line.
 - Human is possible
 - Elf's, can't be noble

Different race parents?
 - Dwarf noble + human mage -> (magic?)
 - Dwarf noble  + elf mage -> (magic?)
 - Human noble mage + Dwarf -> (magic?)
 - Human noble + Elf mage

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 mai 2011 - 10:33 .

[mesmerizedish]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

That story element simply doesn't exist for a dwarf.

Elves mages can be Apostate or have you forgotten the events in DA2?

[xXJayeDuBXx]

Elhanan wrote...

Clearly because your parents were purple. And hyenas.

That is by far the best explanation ever!

[Serpieri Nei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because no one would see an elf achieve a high social status. Citizens would make sure of that.

And because Dwarves can't use magic.

This is a game detailing the Chantry-Mage-Templar inner civil war, where only a human best fits in. Any other race wouldn't work. All throughout the game you find evidence of the growing tension between the Chantry, Templars, and Mages.

Did you read that in a Codex that stated Elves are not allowed to own property or garner wealth?

[Serpieri Nei]

An apostate is any mage who is not part of the Circle of Magi. There are two types of apostates: hedge mages, who were never part of the Circle, and rogue mages, who have fled from the Circle. The Order of Templars is charged with finding apostates and either capturing or killing them.

[Sabariel]

All humans are racist. That's why there's no Dwarf Hawke or Elf Hawke