465 réponses à ce sujet

[SirGladiator]

Im pretty sure an Elf could be a Noble if they had the kind of money and status that Hawke supposedly had, not to mention the power. The Dwarf issue could've been handled the same way it was handled in DAO, if you want to play as a Dwarf you have to be a Warrior or Rogue. The rest of your family would still be human, so Bethany (and your father) would still be mages. So yes, they could've kept the option in the game, Im pretty sure the reason they didn't is because they were afraid of having to use 6 VAs for Hawke, not realizing that there's nothing wrong with a single dwarf sounding like a human, or a single elf sounding like a human. If you grew up with humans, its perfectly natural that you might sound like one, but they couldn't figure that part out, so for them it was 6 VAs or dump the other races, which is why they dumped them. Its not a very big deal for me, I did like the option of playing as a dwarf but I mostly played as a human in DAO, but its just one more limitation that DA2 has that DAO didn't, and since RPGs are about options, and as few limitations as possible, it would've been better to stick to the original system.

[AkiKishi]

It's cheaper and quicker.

[Sylvianus]

In any case the interestof origins is precisely the difference in treatment between them. An elf who becomes champion does not necessarily need to belong to the nobility. He could not be conclusively presumed to have the same title or another.

Nobility is not a necessary feature in the game

[Marionetten]

Let's take a look at what would prevent Hawke from being an elf or a dwarf, shall we?

Nobility. The whole point of the first act is to amass money in order to reclaim your mansion, yes? Now, instead of amassing money to reclaim the mansion an elf or a dwarf would simply amass money in order to purchase a mansion along with social status. Problem solved. What, you think it's unlikely that an elf would rise to such prominence? Take it up with the elven Hero of Ferelden. That bugger didn't even have to pay.

Apostate. Now this is certainly a big problem for a dwarf but is the whole apostate thing really such a big deal in Dragon Age II? I'm tempted to say no. NPCs rarely comment on it and the mage status is typically ignored by the game altogether. The whole notion of having to be a magic user or be related to a magic user in order to care about the conflict is nonsensical at best. It's akin to suggesting that you have to be an elf in order to care about their plight. From my perspective this is a non-issue. Hawke's father plays no real part in the game beyond codex entries and minor dialogue lines. The plot of Dragon Age II is about the rise of the Champion. This does not necessitate a magical bloodline any more than the zero to hero plot of Dragon Age: Origins did.

Kirkwall. I'm sure there are some perfectly valid reasons for going there. I mean, the whole city was flooded with refugees at the time of Hawke's arrival, no? Elves, humans and dwarves. I doubt they were all related to nobility. More likely it was probably just a convenient place to go for a whole lot of people. To suggest that this necessitates some massive rewrite... no, not really. You could still keep that friendly Lowtown uncle in the game as an initial hook.

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's cheaper and quicker.

Subsequently, I nominate this as the most likely reason by far.

[daemon1129]

You can throw all the lore or settings restrictions as to why Hawke must be human. But I think it is clear they want to do a Human voiced protagonist right at the beginning when they start pitching in ideas for a quick sequel. If they don't do voiced PC, there won't be a Hawke, and origins would have been back.

[Sylvianus]

Yes, I also think that they want a conduct more cinematic as mass effect, wheel and voice acting. Another consideration out of story with HumanHawk.

[Sylvianus]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes, I also think that they want a conduct more cinematic as mass effect, wheel and voice acting. Another consideration out of story with HumanHawk.

The chorus says it all, really.

LOL. I agree.

[Sylvianus]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes, I also think that they want a conduct more cinematic as mass effect, wheel and voice acting. Another consideration out of story with HumanHawk.

The chorus says it all, really.

LOL. I agree.

I only wish FemShep was in the video instead.

Further evidence of discrimination against Femshep. A shame.

[neppakyo]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
Indeed! Everyone knows girls are better than boys at being awesomesauce.

Only when they're naked! >.>

And that video is deliciously 1980's.

[Sylvianus]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes, I also think that they want a conduct more cinematic as mass effect, wheel and voice acting. Another consideration out of story with HumanHawk.

The chorus says it all, really.

LOL. I agree.

I only wish FemShep was in the video instead.

Further evidence of discrimination against Femshep. A shame.

Indeed! Everyone knows girls are better than boys at being awesomesauce.

Everyone except Bioware ha ha !
But boys sucks indeed, there is a conspiracy against girls, that's for sure.
Even more mysterious than the origin of reapers !

[neppakyo]

*mage teleports out of the way to view the naked female trying to cast spells*

Nice butt.

EDIT: Here's your consolation prize.

Modifié par neppakyo, 10 mai 2011 - 06:10 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Gee, maybe because it was in service of the story? Because Leandra's family in Kirkwall was noble and because part of the story involves regaining your family's rightful place in the city? Because there are no elf nobles - ever - anywhere? Because the dwarves that we know of don't do magic and can't have apostate sisters? Because a dwarf noble wouldn't be caught dead in Kirkwall? I can think of lots of reasons why elves and dwarves weren't included - mainly logical reasons.

Get...over...it.

[Thirdpres]

During Dragon Age's development writers pointed out that if elves tried to move out of the Alienage and into nice human neighborhoods the elven family would end up being attacked. Their property looted and burned. Women assaulted, men beaten up. "Get back to where you belong" being the motto. If Dragon Age Central was still around I'd post a link to the developers who mentioned this.

I am pretty sure David Gaider was in on this discussion, perhaps some other long timers will remember this discussion now that there's been a reminder of it.

[Zem_]

Marionetten wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's cheaper and quicker.

Subsequently, I nominate this as the most likely reason by far.

Seconded.  Of course it's possible to have had a choice of race for Hawke and all the attendant modifications to the storyline that would have required, the different armor meshes for different body types, different family situation, maybe even additional voice sets, but all that would cost.  They had to be asking themselves if it was worth it given what their figures told them about how many people just played human anyway in Origins despite having the choice.

Considering all the corners they still ended up cutting with the game anyway even though there was not a choice of race for Hawke, cost probably is the numnber one reason they didn't give that choice.

[haroldhardluck]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
English is not my native language. What I meant to say is, DA2 would've still occured without Hawke's presence. The story doesn't revolve around Hawke's actions, but Anders'. So why not just let us be an elf who grew up in Kirkwall, or a dwarf?

Without Varric's secret help, Anders would never have survived long enough to destroy the Chantry. The game makes it clear that Varric is paying the Coterie to stay away from Anders and probably to protect him from snooping Templars as well. Anders is being protected because he is part of Hawke's Band of Brothers. Without Hawke, Anders would get no help from Varric.

Moreover without Hawke defeating the Quanri in Act 2, there would be no Kirkwall Chantry for Anders to blow up. Like a Shakespearean play, the true climax of the game is in Act 2 and Act 3 is only about the consequences of what happened in Act 2. Without Act 2, the Vicount would be alive and Meredith would not be able to seize power. Without Hawke defeating the Qunari, Kirkwall would be destroyed or become a Qunari city with no Chantry.

Furthermore the confrontation between the mages and Meredith was already under way when Anders blows up the Chantry. So what Anders did was of no consequences as the confrontation he wanted to start was already underway. All Anders did was insure that there would be no last minute peaceful resolution. However such a peaceful resolution was also extremely unlikely. Which means that all Anders did was in vain. He killed all those people in the Chantry for no purpose.

Harold

[haroldhardluck]

MyKingdomCold wrote...
they made Hawke human because they didn't want to deal with the one size fits all armor. The armor in Origins was magical in that the same armor could be worn by Sten, Alistair, and Oghren.

This has been a "feature" of CRPGs since the days of the C64. I know of only one game series where looted armor had to be re-fitted to a character before it could be used. In all other games, any armor (even non-magical ones) would immediately fit any character from halfing to half-orc. Like eating food and going to the bathroom, this is a feature of reality that is purposedly left out of fantasy games.

Harold

[element eater]

haroldhardluck wrote...

 Without Hawke defeating the Qunari, Kirkwall would be destroyed or become a Qunari city with no Chantry.

I still dont see how the quinari could ever have taken the city i mean how many were there on that ship? surely kirkwall has some kind of milatary force that could have dealt with them once they had time to organise . Also it still baffles me how they manage to have somekind of effective millatary force when all there soldiers seem to waltz around half naked.

[haroldhardluck]

Serpieri Nei wrote...
You'd be suprised by what wealth can accomplish.

Very little actually in established society. That is why nouveau riche is a derogatory term. The Hawkes are an old line nobility who had fallen on hard times but got their wealth back. So The Establishment is welcoming back one of their own rather than taking in a newly raised commoner. That makes a world of difference in how well Hawke is perceived and received.

Harold

[Sylvianus]

I still dont see how the quinari could ever have taken the city i mean how many were there on that ship? surely kirkwall has some kind of milatary force that could have dealt with them once they had time to organise . Also it still baffles me how they manage to have somekind of effective millatary force when all there soldiers seem to waltz around half naked.

Welcome in the world of dragon age 2 ! Plotholes !!!!!!!

Varric when he tells his story talk about a hundred qunari become castaways and who landed at Kirkwall. How a hundred qunari who managed somehow to win in a walled city did they really threaten a fortified city ? At least there is less than hundred people in Kirkwall.

Ah yes but no, the circle of mages is expected to raise thousands of mages all by itself.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 07:43 .

[haroldhardluck]

Serpieri Nei wrote...
All elves were Dalish at one point. What circumstances drove them to live in a city or brought them to Lothering does not detour from the point that Hawke's story does not require him to be human. 

No but it would be a significantly different story if Hawke was an elf due to the social bigotry against elves. In DAO, any elf was also a Warden. Wardens were Wardens first and their race was secondary. In DAO this was made clear in the comments of some characters as to how they were to address the Warden. In DA2 Hawke had no such social status that made his or her race irrelevant. So an elven Hawke or even half elf Hawke would have require substantial changes in parts of the story. The best example is Merrill's comment about moving with Hawke.

In Neverwinter 2, your character could be a yuan ti in places where yuan ti's were killed on sight but no one ever comments on the fact that your character is a yuan ti. So making Hawke something other than human requires doing something more than putting on black face makeup on Hawke.

Harold