384 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Opinions, opinions everywhere.

Not opinons, facts.

Really???........

[BlackwindTheCommander]

Qwib Qwib unite!

[Dean_the_Young]

Arcian wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Opinions, opinions everywhere.

Not opinons, facts.

Listen, you're an ignorant douchebag who violates common sense on an hourly basis and pulls baseless arguments out of your posterior like they were post-its, so I'm gonna go right ahead and not senselessly argue with you for 12 hours and make you feel good about yourself for inciting rage on the internet. I'll laugh when it turns out you're wrong in ME3, but that's about it.

If that's supposed to be representative of you, indeed it doesn't seem you give a damn but it does make you look like an idiot. Pretty sure that's not what you're trying to go with, despite your text, but then you did choose the picture. Maybe there's a double-fake irony in there?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 11 mai 2011 - 03:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

atheelogos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I agree. Its just unfortunate that the geth are sentient, and not kill-bots like they were in ME1, or i'd probably be more inclinded to agree with her.

They are killbots.

No they are not.

Every Geth we've met in ME1 and ME2 has been a warmachine. 'Killbot' is what all those platforms, including Legion, are made to do.

[Reapinger]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I agree. Its just unfortunate that the geth are sentient, and not kill-bots like they were in ME1, or i'd probably be more inclinded to agree with her.

They are killbots.

No they are not.

Every Geth we've met in ME1 and ME2 has been a warmachine. 'Killbot' is what all those platforms, including Legion, are made to do.

Uhhhh so all those memory platforms on the geth base were killbots too?

[Dean_the_Young]

Reapinger wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I agree. Its just unfortunate that the geth are sentient, and not kill-bots like they were in ME1, or i'd probably be more inclinded to agree with her.

They are killbots.

No they are not.

Every Geth we've met in ME1 and ME2 has been a warmachine. 'Killbot' is what all those platforms, including Legion, are made to do.

Uhhhh so all those memory platforms on the geth base were killbots too?

See bolded word for relevant detail.

Mind you, the only memory platforms we see are of the omni-genocidal heretics... so yeah. Those geth are killbots too.

[jbblue05]

Space Morrigan FTW!

[MrDizazta]

Qwib Qwib

[DPSSOC]

Were I to choose a side I thought best for the future of the Quarians I'd side with Koris. The reason being if Koris' plan to make peace with the Geth fails you can still fall back on Gerrel or Xen's idea. If however you lead with Gerrel or Xen's idea and they fail the Quarians are pretty much screwed.

[Ye Olde Gamer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Every Geth we've met in ME1 and ME2 has been a warmachine. 'Killbot' is what all those platforms, including Legion, are made to do.

That's a bit of a tautology.  The only Geth platforms we've met have been their military/security platforms, so of course they're warmachines.  The Geth may well have non-combat plaforms, and we certainly have no idea what the programs in those hubs were doing.  Every Turian, Salarian and Krogan we've met in ME and ME2 has been male, but that doesn't mean there aren't any females.

Personally, I see no reason not to treat the Geth as a sentient/sapient race.  Daro'Xen is the only person in game who challenges that notion, and a) even she only does so indirectly, and Tali seems to consider her borderline delusional.  So pending further information, I don't really see the nature of the Geth as being in doubt.  The question is purely how to handle them.  They've been been at best reclusive xenophobes and at worst murderous paranoids for centuries, so there's still plenty of room for debate.

If I had to chose, I'm closest to the Quib Quib side.  It would obviously be a long and difficult process, but I think his notion of at least trying to negotiate an end to hostilities with the Geth is the best place to start.

Xen's plan to enslave/control the Geth is a little too extreme for my tastes.  Plus, I have serious doubts that it could ever work, especially in the long run; if it were that easy to reprogram the Geth, the quarians should have easily won the Morning War.  The last option, direct invasion, seems like a complete non-starter unless the Geth are unilaterally devestated in ME3.

[Td1984]

Admiral Koris by far. I don't want the Quarians going to war with the Geth, especially with the Reapers about to invade (that's the last thing the galaxy needs right now). Since the Geth apparently don't even want Rannoch (Legion makes it sound like the Geth are taking care of it until the Quarians decide to return home), the Quarians can go back home with no bloodshed whatsoever.

[Quole]

As much as I like Xen, I would have to go with Koris.

[PMC65]

DPSSOC wrote...

Were I to choose a side I thought best for the future of the Quarians I'd side with Koris. The reason being if Koris' plan to make peace with the Geth fails you can still fall back on Gerrel or Xen's idea. If however you lead with Gerrel or Xen's idea and they fail the Quarians are pretty much screwed.

Agree with this strategy ...

Geth are Wrex, Koris is Shepard & Gerrel is Ash. Brilliant!

[HTTP 404]

I would side with the douche pink quarian for my paragon shepard.

[DarthSliver]

Well I dont know who side i would be on, but if i had to choose a side between Geth and Quarian without making a peaceful resolution between the two. I would let the Quarians burn because they havent learned after 300 years.

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

The punishment was exile.  The punishment was exile because 1) the Quarians don't have the death penalty and 2) they can't afford to house prisoners or life sentences.  If they did have the death penalty, I'm quite certain they'd have imposed it in the case of a guilty verdict.  What they did is morally equivalent to attempting to put someone to death, who was innocent, for politlcal reasons.  They are not going to find that I'm OK with that since no harm no foul.  Or, to paraphrase Shepard when he talked to Ronald Taylor, there's no way he's going to let this slide.  A price will be paid.

Execution is not equivalent to being kicked out, nor have the worst banana republics even needed due process to kill someone. You have abandoned all sense of proportionality.

It doesn't matter if you think my final argument is petty.  Shepard can supply some damned good reasons for recruiting a few shady individuals.  The Admiralty board has not rendered a single solitary reason, of any kind, why they were charging an innocent person with a capital offense.

It wasn't a capital offense, and the entire direction of the Migrant Fleet, whether it would throw itself onto the sword of war or would risk making itself stationary by settling a colony world. The fates of millions were tied up in how the fate of one person was resolved. That's every reason for the leaders to counter what one started.

And it's really not going to matter if my argument is petty when I hit the button that blows Koris and Xen out the airlock.

Sure it will: pettyness is part of how Shepard will be remembered by when he then turns around and begs the Quarians to help liberate Earth.

I have not lost proportionality.  This is merely your mistaken opinion.  Treason is a capital offense.  Period.

Exile is not equivalent to execution, obviously, but you are continuously ignoring why exile is used.  1) they don't have the death penalty and 2) they can't afford to house prisoners.  So they just boot them out.  Doesn't change the fact that treason is a capital crime.

Furthermore, a show trial held to advance political agendas under color of law can not, in any way, be considered due process.  Banana republic comparison stands.  They were a bit more civilized in their tyranny than most dictators, but it was still a show trial worthy of the same.

As for the Quarians liberating Earth, how are they going to do that?  The Migrant Fleet is largely composed of old, worn out tramp freighters and whatever fourth hand ships the Quarians could beg, borrow, or buy.  It is not a viable combat force; it's a defensive huddle that's totally unfit for combat.  It's barely fit for habitation.  The whole preventing war between the Quarians and the Geth situation is about securing Geth assistance, since they do have a proper fleet.

The Quarian Admiralty board perpetrated a pretty significant crime against one of its own people.  That is not in doubt.  They're ranking pretty high on my **** list, and for good reason.

Modifié par jamesp81, 11 mai 2011 - 03:09 .

[Someone With Mass]

Xen's plan just sounds moronic, so I'm going to try and convince the admirals to approach it from a different angle.

[jamesp81]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Xen's plan just sounds moronic, so I'm going to try and convince the admirals to approach it from a different angle.

Xen's plan is a catastrophe waiting to happen.  Koris is a douche, but he's right, at least, that starting a war with the Geth is a bad idea.  The Quarians have no legitimate cause for war, IMO, nor do they have the fighting power to win.  A war will only distract the Geth into defending themselves when we need them against the Reapers.

[Dean_the_Young]

jamesp81 wrote...

I have not lost proportionality.  This is merely your mistaken opinion.  Treason is a capital offense.  Period.

Only by culture. A capital offense is one in which the death penalty is applied: a culture without the death penalty (such as, for example, various European nations) do not conclude treason as a capital offense because they have no capital offenses.

Treason itself is a concept that varies by culture as well. The United States has a specific legal definition: other states have used it more or less freely in other terms. The Quarians have another in which deliberate intent isn't even a requirement. The cultural conceptions, and weight, varies, as does the consequences thereof. Treason is not 'a capital offense, period.' It's whatever level of offense a society deems it as.

Furthermore, a show trial held to advance political agendas under color of law can not, in any way, be considered due process.  Banana republic comparison stands.  They were a bit more civilized in their tyranny than most dictators, but it was still a show trial worthy of the same.

This is horrific historical nearsightedness at it's worst: the worst banana republics were just as often to forgo any sort of trial at all, while there would be no variation from the prior intent of conviction. The fact that there was a trial, and the fact that it was not pre-concluded against Tali from the start, are both incredibly significant distinctions from the worst banana republics.

As for the Quarians liberating Earth, how are they going to do that?  The Migrant Fleet is largely composed of old, worn out tramp freighters and whatever fourth hand ships the Quarians could beg, borrow, or buy.  It is not a viable combat force; it's a defensive huddle that's totally unfit for combat.  It's barely fit for habitation.  The whole preventing war between the Quarians and the Geth situation is about securing Geth assistance, since they do have a proper fleet.

Quantity is a quality, and this ignores all aspects and utility of logistical lift.

The Quarian Admiralty board perpetrated a pretty significant crime against one of its own people.  That is not in doubt.  They're ranking pretty high on my **** list, and for good reason.

It was hardly a significant crime to the greater whole, nor is it outweighed by far more serious injustices Shepard is both party and part of... such as the entire Spectre system.

[Someone With Mass]

I've never understood how they expect to win a war against the same machine race that drove them away in the first place, when their numbers were in the billions, not millions.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I've never understood how they expect to win a war against the same machine race that drove them away in the first place, when their numbers were in the billions, not millions.

Xen will pull it off with the help of Dr. Gavin Archer.

[ReallyRue]

Koris. His solution seems to make the most sense, especially in light of the Reapers showing up.