384 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill569]

None of them. What I would support in ME3 is quarians and geth living together. After all, the geth do not live on planets, but on space platforms. They just maintain the quarians planets in their territory.

Oh, and Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh is a ****.

[Dracotamer]

I support Admiral vas Qwib Qwib as it seems his method is the only one that would allow Legion and Tali to have a good outcome.

[AngelicMachinery]

I support Legion.

[Nashiktal]

Bill569 wrote...

None of them. What I would support in ME3 is quarians and geth living together. After all, the geth do not live on planets, but on space platforms. They just maintain the quarians planets in their territory.

Oh, and Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh is a ****.

Not entirely true. They do inhabit planets, and even terraform them. They have to get their resources from somewhere you know.

[Reapinger]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I support Legion.

+1

[TheOtherTheoG]

I support Legion's suggestion that, if the creators do not attack or threaten the Geth, they would be happy letting them stay on their homeworld without the need for a war. If the quarians do attack the Geth, then I'll side with the Geth, because I feel that they are, in fact, the side being persecuted in the battle.

[Bill569]

Nashiktal wrote...

Bill569 wrote...

None of them. What I would support in ME3 is quarians and geth living together. After all, the geth do not live on planets, but on space platforms. They just maintain the quarians planets in their territory.

Oh, and Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh is a ****.

Not entirely true. They do inhabit planets, and even terraform them. They have to get their resources from somewhere you know.

My bad. They preserve the quarian worlds as sanctuaries. But I think that they actually do not live on planets at all. They may get their resources from there and even terraform them, but most geth do not live on plantes but space platforms.

Modifié par Bill569, 11 mai 2011 - 11:02 .

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Another point about the migrant fleet.

The Quantity is a Quality all its own is not a good strategy.

The Chinese tried that against the US in the Korean War.  Worked OK for a few months.  In the end, it worked very, very poorly.  The phrase 'horrendous casualties' doesn't even really begin to cut it.  It taught the US a painful lesson; we will always be outnumbered, so deal with it.  So we did.  The Battle of 73 Easting in the 1991 Persian Gulf War showed the fruit of that effort.  Over 80 Iraqi tanks destroyed in a fierce armored battle with no American or British tanks destroyed.

Quality > Quantity.  Always.  Zerg rushing a sophisticated enemy is cruise control to defeat.

The Migrant Fleet would provide little more than target practice for the Reapers.

Your grasp of selective historical interpretation astounds me, I assure you. I will henceforth ignore all other contrary examples of military history, and throw out years of military training at the feet of this wisdom.


But no, seriously. Technological is a force multiplier, but quality alone doesn't decide wars or battles, any more than numbers. It's one of many factors, and for every case of the few good triumphing over a greater number, you cn also find a number of cases in which numbers made up for or even surpassed a quality gap. The Eastern Front in WW2 is a textbook case: the American civil war is another. Cases of significantly low-tech foes matching or sending high-tech foes away are legion in and of themselves: Vietnam and the Soviet Afghanistan are two such, while even the Conquistadores succeded not least because they raised their own local armies to help them.

I don't know that the Eastern Front in WW2 is really a good example.  Germany's heavy armor was, on paper, superior to Soviet armor by the end of the war.  Interestingly enough, when Operation Barbarossa began, Soviet armor was actually a litlte bit better than German armor, but that changed during the course of the war.  In any case, though German armor was considered to be better, tanks such as the Panzer IV and the Panther were not enormously superior to the T-34 or IS-2.  In terms of air power, Germany's advantage was a little more pronounced, but again, the Yak-9 and Mig-3 fighters fielded by the Red Air Force were not enormously inferior to their German counterparts.

Remember that I said German armor was better on paper?  German armor had a major failing; it was difficult to maintain.  Breakdown rates among German tanks, especially Tiger tanks, was excessively high.  The vehicles were complicated and difficult to work on.  The Soviet tanks suffered much lower rates of mechanical failure and were very easy to work on in the field.

If you want a modern example, you'd do better to look at the western front in WW2.  American armor was pathetic compared to German armor.  In straight up tank battles, German armor was murderously effective against the Sherman tank.  The troops that drove Shermans didn't have good things to say about their survivability when German armor was around.  The very late model Shermans were an improvement as they mounted a longer barreled gun that generated much higher muzzle velocity, and thus, provided better penetration of enemy armor at longer range.  We basically dealt with this by liberal use of air power on all German armor we found, especially after Normandy.

As for the Conquistadores, a lot of their success was accidental biological warfare.  European diseases that the native Americans weren't immune to ravaged them mercilessly, doing much of the Conquistadores work for them.

Low tech, high numbered guerilla forces only win wars when the high tech, low numbers opponent isn't willing to stick a war out indefinitely until they win it.  The US won almost every battle in Vietnam.  You remember the movie "We Were Soldiers"?  After that particular battle, the North Vietnamese avoided conventional engagements against US forces at all costs.  US forces massacred NVA forces during the Tet Offensive for minimal loss.  We lost the war, however, because we weren't willing to go to whatever length was necessary to win.  I suspect the Reapers are willing to go to any length, though.  Throwing the Migrant Fleet against them will get you nothing except a ****load of dead Quarians, and it will accomplish little to nothing.

[jamesp81]

Silrian wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Silrian wrote...
Then why is the Illusive Man afraid of the Migrant Fleet? He may be illusive, but he's not dumb. The Geth might be more powerful then the Quarians as it stands at the end of ME2, but I don't think we should underestimate the biggest armada of ships in the galaxy. 

He isn't afraid of them. He's curious about their technology that made it possible for them to survive this long against the odds. That's why he tried to infiltrate the fleet in the first place.

TIM doesn't trust them for effectively having the largest armada of ships in the galaxy. That to me is enough of an indicator that the Quarians are at the very least a force to be reckoned with. But hey maybe I'm wrong and their basically the galaxies biggest nerd-horde. Personally I think their military strength is being underrated.

Their military strength isn't very good.  Kal'Reegar even says so.

[jamesp81]

kiti.the.great wrote...

Quarians may have shiiitload of those old rust-buckets, but I don't think they will be any useful in epic space battles. Guess why.

Because in a battle of old rust buckets vs mega space cthulus, mega space cthulu wins.  Every time.

[jamesp81]

Silrian wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Silrian wrote...
TIM doesn't trust them for effectively having the largest armada of ships in the galaxy. That to me is enough of an indicator that the Quarians are at the very least a force to be reckoned with. But hey maybe I'm wrong and their basically the galaxies biggest nerd-horde. Personally I think their military strength is being underrated.

Perhaps. Though, I think they wouldn't have fled if they could've taken back their worlds by force in the first place.

Wasn't that like 300 years ago? I think the Quarians haven't sit still. If they really were so outmatched by the Geth I don't think any admiral would propose retaking the home world; that would just be plain stupid. In fact, if the Quarian's didn't have any chance against the Geth at all, this entire discussion is pointless, because two of the three options would be unrealistic. 

Being an Admiral does not mean one is also not plain stupid.

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.  Koris attempted to unjustly inflict his society's highest punishment against an innocent woman.

I am willing to inflict my society's highest punishment against him for doing it

So... murder worthy of a banana republic. Yeah.

Probably side with Koris because I like Tali and want her to be happy.  Her people decimated by Geth = not happy.  I'd probably still space Koris if I am given the option to, but I don't see that happening.

I never would have guessed.

1. It's no more murder than it would be for me to shoot Fist in ME1, frankly.
2. Yes, Tali's a good person.  Not my Shepard's LI, but a good friend to him.  But I would go the same length for anyone on my crew.  Every. Single. One.  Even Jack, who frankly kind of scares me.

Modifié par jamesp81, 11 mai 2011 - 11:19 .

[jamesp81]

TheOtherTheoG wrote...

I support Legion's suggestion that, if the creators do not attack or threaten the Geth, they would be happy letting them stay on their homeworld without the need for a war. If the quarians do attack the Geth, then I'll side with the Geth, because I feel that they are, in fact, the side being persecuted in the battle.

As much as I like most Quarians you meet in the game, if the Quarians launched a surprise attack on the Geth, I would support the Geth.  The Geth have a right to lead their own lives in peace.

[jamesp81]

mrsph wrote...

Han is an idiot. No one, least of all the damn quarians, can take the geth on in all-out warfare.

Which is why Xen's plan, while insane, has an actual chance of working compared to Han's General Ripper behavior.

Xen's plan is a kind of hail mary, all or nothing ploy.  If it works, it works great.  If it doesn't, you're screwed.  Probably not wise for the Admiralty to go that route.

[jamesp81]

mrsph wrote...

Which is why it is my last resort if peace is impossible.

Yes, if peace is absolutely impossible, and you decide to suppor the Quarians, Xen's plan is the only one that might actually work.  Han'Gerrel seems like a nice guy and respectable as a person, but his plan is a guranteed ass whooping for the Quarians.

Truth is, though, if peace does become impossible, I'd be real tempted to support the Geth.  They aren't the aggressors here, after all.

By the way, your avatar is giving me feelings of great nostalgia.

Modifié par jamesp81, 11 mai 2011 - 11:33 .

[vanslyke85]

Qwib Qwib. but not because the geth are sentient, because we need their full support against the reapers, and because their ships are centuries old some of them slapped together with random 2nd and 3rd hand parts of other old ships...they'd get ripped apart in a war vs the geth. they've been on the ships for so long that it will take almost as much time readapting to their old home world as it will to do so on a new colonized world.

[Ye Olde Gamer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Their military strength isn't very good.  Kal'Reegar even says so.

On the ground!

He says Quarians should fight from orbit.  He also says that if the admirals throw the fleet at the Geth, all they'll get back is scrap metal.  That doesn't really tell us if the fleet is "strong," but Reegar clearly believes it is not up to the task of engaging its primary enemy.

[Warlock Adam]

 Xen=ice queen Morrigan, Gerrel=warmonger Loghain, Koris=...this guy?

webkit-fake-url://66C2965A-42C6-4DF4-B988-58080AE0EE37/Nergal_wishes_U_a_happy_B_day_by_ShadowStanEnvy.pngI say Quib Quib. The man's a Quarian pimp (those ladeez behind him) and he wants peace with the geth. Plus he's rocking pinkish armor. I can forgive the aspersions made against Tali'Zorah.

[Raiil]

I'm with Qwib. I sympathise with the Quarians (and would totally get behind a Quarian/Geth truce) but I do see the Geth as sentient, and Legion's revelations really changed how I view them. I ended up killing the heretics because I wouldn't truck with brainwashing any sentient race- better a quick death than a life reverted in that manner.

[Reapinger]

 Watch this to find more out about Quarian/Geth peace. 

[Confused-Shepard]

This is why I essentially had Legion do a heart to heart with all the Admirals. The way I saw it, the Geth were willing to give the planet back to the Quarians provided there was no aggression against them. The Geth have no quarrel against the Quarians and peace is possible provided no one starts shooting.

I actually wish Legion was a bit more blunt rather than, "Hey if you not shootin at us, we cool!"