384 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's infuriating to have your mistakes corrected, especially when it destroys your argument. I know. That's why I carefully think out my position and make sure it is solid.

Okay. Whenever you get something wrong, I'm going to call you a ****ing ****got. How about that?

[GodWood]

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's infuriating to have your mistakes corrected, especially when it destroys your argument. I know. That's why I carefully think out my position and make sure it is solid.

Okay. Whenever you get something wrong, I'm going to call you a ****ing ****got. How about that?

You're gonna have to be on your toes constantly against Saphra's intellect brah. You think you're up to the challenge?

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...
You're gonna have to be on your toes constantly against Saphra's intellect brah. You think you're up to the challenge?

I don't even want to be up to the challenge.

Point is: You can correct people without insulting them.

But I guess guys with superiority complexes can't do that, because it hurts their ego.

[DeadLetterBox]

laecraft wrote...

Holy supernovas, I didn't even know it was possible to bring Legion to the fleet! Isn't it too late, doesn't your crew die??

I just watched it on youtube! It's HILARIOUS. Bwahahahaa, "I never bring entire geth to the fleet, only parts and pieces - never mind this live, armed geth standing RIGHT HERE and blinking!" muahahaha

Oh I wish I didn't get him so late in the game so that I could take him everywhere and spook the organics! Oh gosh, what else did I miss? Don't look at me like that, I only played the game a month ago!

Take him to the Citadel.  Note the complete lack of response from the customs girl looking for geth infiltrators 

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

1. It's no more murder than it would be for me to shoot Fist in ME1, frankly.

It's far more. Fist tried to commit murder. The Quarian Admirals did not.

2. Yes, Tali's a good person.  Not my Shepard's LI, but a good friend to him.  But I would go the same length for anyone on my crew.  Every. Single. One.  Even Jack, who frankly kind of scares me.

You confuse this for a virtue.

Your opinion has been noted.

[Dean_the_Young]

jamesp81 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

1. It's no more murder than it would be for me to shoot Fist in ME1, frankly.

It's far more. Fist tried to commit murder. The Quarian Admirals did not.

2. Yes, Tali's a good person.  Not my Shepard's LI, but a good friend to him.  But I would go the same length for anyone on my crew.  Every. Single. One.  Even Jack, who frankly kind of scares me.

You confuse this for a virtue.

Your opinion has been noted.

Correction: my military ethics training has been noted.

[Ye Olde Gamer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ye Olde Gamer wrote...
I'm
not arguing we're to blame for the Geth's isolation.  I'm saying that
now that the Geth ARE talking to us, it might be a good time to push for
peace rather than resort to all out war.  Just a thought.

All out war is stupid, I agree. That's why I'm endorsing the sneak-attack with the computer virus Xen is working on.

Yeah, the element of surprise attack worked out so well in the Morning War I can't see how we'd miss the opportunity to try it again.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ye Old Gamer wrote...
I don't recall any mention of genocide from the council.  I just recall them saying it was the quarian's own damn fault and sitting right out of it.

It's in the codex and it comes straight Tali's mouth too.

I can't find any use of the word genocide in the ME1 codex (can't check ME2 at the moment), nor do I recall Tali mentioning it.  Could you cite the appropriate entry/conversation?

Ye Old Gamer wrote...

Yes, and those examples FAILED.

No, they didn't. The Heretic virus was a stunning success. Overlord was a stunning success (infact it was TOO successful!) and apparently Rael'Zorha's research was going very well too. That's why he cut corners. He knew they were close to a working prototype and wanted to hurry up before someone like K'oris found out and shut him down. He'd have a lot more to bargain with if he had a working system.

Name one thing Overlord actually accomplished.  At the *absolute* best, you can say that David convinced the geth to spare him while getting them to take actions they were otherwise inclined to do anyway (i.e. kill the rest of the humans).  At the absolute worst, you could say Overlord allowed the geth to control a human (i.e. David) and use him as a weapon to nearly destroy the extranet.  That's not a winning track record.

Rael'Zorah's work has even less to show for itself.  The quarian recordings can crow about how close they were to a breakthrough all they want, the evidence suggests something else.  The geth on the Alarei broke free because they were all added to a single network with reduced safety protocols.  Unless Rael'Zorah was a moron who liked to turn off safeties for teh lulz, this was presumably necessary to test the weapon.  That means that either a) the weapon still hasn't been tested on a geth network of meaningful size, or the geth actually broke free in the process of testing the weapon.  Neither of those possibilities is particularly inspiring; Rael'Zorah's weapon is at best in the conceptual stages.

Finally, you mention the heretic virus despite the fact that we haven't seen the results of it yet - assuming Shepard even used it at all.  There's also the more practical problem that neither the quarians nor Shepard themself ever had access to it.  Legion was the only one who did, and it claims to have deleted the virus at the end of its loyalty mission.  So even if the virus does wind up working as advertised, I fail to see how it's relevant to the conversation at the moment.

Frankly, to this point Shepard's technological breakthrough of politely (or rudely) asking Legion for help has produced better results than all three attempts to mind-control the Geth put together.  Especially since the third attempt is a result of working with Legion!

Modifié par Ye Olde Gamer, 13 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[V-rex]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ye Olde Gamer wrote...

Yeah, the element of surprise attack worked out so well in the Morning War I can't see how we'd miss the opportunity to try it again.

Completely different situation.

Elaborate.
Don't just give single sentence replies to genuine arguments without giving an explanation.
Unless of course you are still of the mindset that a casual insult qualifies as an explanation.

Otherwise give an explanation and justification as you why you snapped back at this guy or just don't say anything at all.

When you talk to Tali about the geth and how her people got exiled.

Now see that I agree with, while my sympathies lie with the Geth (barely, it's a fairly morally grey area through and through) there is no denying that what happened to the Quarians was genocide. Seems silly to pretend it was something else, call the systematic destruction of an entire race whatever you want, it still is what it is.

Oh hey, look at that. I just acknowledged that you were correct, I demonstrated humility and dignity and didn't arrogantly trumpet my horn and go into denial and insult everyone who wasn't of the same mindset of me like an egotistical blowhole.
Give it a try sometime.

Not like we'll unleash this thing without thoroughly testing it first. As Gerrel says, Xen takes fleet safety very seriously. 

Which is why she decided to continue the reasearch that lead to the death of absolutely everyone on the Alerai. Only this time it will be on the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE GETH in the presence of the ENTIRE MIGRANT FLEET.
 
Talk thorougly tested all you want, but there's too many variables. Who's to say that even if the virus does work on a test group of geth that when faced by the entire population of the Geth, it would have the same effect? Geth become more advanced and more powerful and more intelligent and more capable as more programs get bundled together.
We are talking about the Geth home system with trillions upon trillions of programs all in close proximity to another.
Do you really think one virus tested on a small test group could stand up to that? You ready to risk the safety of your entire race to try?

Modifié par V-rex, 13 mai 2011 - 04:11 .

[Ye Olde Gamer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ye Old Gamer wrote...
Could you cite the appropriate entry/conversation?

When you talk to Tali about the geth and how her people got exiled.

The one on the Normandy SR-1?  At no point in that conversation does Tali say the Council accused the quarians of genocide.  At least, not that I was able to find.  Could you give me the actual reference?

Name one thing Overlord actually accomplished.

I shouldn't need to. You saw what it accomplished. You fought against it.

Think about it. Think hard.

The whole point of project Overlord was to not fight against the geth.  So the fact that I spent all of the Overlord DLC fighting geth is the problem.

Seriously, quit dancing around and justify your argument.  What measurable progress did Overlord make in the effort to control the Geth?

Not like we'll unleash this thing without thoroughly testing it first. As Gerrel says, Xen takes fleet safety very seriously. 

Gerrel also advocates a direct offensive agains the Geth;  his judgement isn't very convincing.

Besides, if you want to trumpet platitudes, I can do that to.  It's not like the Qwib Qwibers would just jump into a peace treaty without verifying the Geth's good intentions first.  So clearly, all potential problems with that plan are solved forever. 

Yay!

[V-rex]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I didn't call you a name or say anything insulting to you.

Oh Really?

Your own words:

'He never said anything like that. Never. Not once. Stop imagining things or twisting events/statements.'

Because you know, there's NO WAY anyone could percieve that as insulting. I mean seriously there's clearly no judgemental overtones in that sentence that could make a person believe you were being arrogant and obnoxious. Nu uh. Nope, none.

Seriously dude, you want to believe that you are all innocent and intellectual and that everyone's just riled up and aggressive towards you because you pointed out flaws in their arguments?  Fine theory, maybe with some truth in it, but far from being an accurate assessment of the situation.

Modifié par V-rex, 13 mai 2011 - 04:32 .

[V-rex]

Double post.

Anyway, off to bed now. Night all-_-

Modifié par V-rex, 13 mai 2011 - 04:33 .

[Dean_the_Young]

V-rex wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I didn't call you a name or say anything insulting to you.

Oh Really?

Your own words:

'He never said anything like that. Never. Not once. Stop imagining things or twisting events/statements.'

Because you know, there's NO WAY anyone could percieve that as insulting. I mean seriously there's clearly no judgemental overtones in that sentence that could make a person believe you were being arrogant and obnoxious. Nu uh. Nope, none.

Seriously dude, you want to believe that you are all innocent and intellectual and that everyone's just riled up and aggressive towards you because you pointed out flaws in their arguments?  Fine theory, maybe with some truth in it, but far from being an accurate assessment of the situation.

Except that isn't an insult. It's a rebuke, but it's a grounded one. Having ones argument attacked is not the same as being personally attacked.

[V-rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Snip

True, but all the same the rebuke was quite obnoxious and rude. He could have merely said that the statement was incorrect and explained why it was incorrect. Instead he went straight for the rebuke and didn't actually explain the justification of the rebuke until a quote or two later.
Hence he went straight for the rebuke, did so in an arrogant and judgemental way and didn't actually explain anything beyond just belittling the person's comments in question. And given that he doesn't immediatley follow it up with an explanation within that post I'd hardly call that anything to do with arguing.
All I'm saying is that to a person reading that, they can percieve that as an insult.

Besides, it's not like this is an isolated incident. Here are a few examples from the 'Legion: Hero or Villain' thread:

'I'd be a nicer person if you people would use your heads more.'

'You people are so fing dense.'

'The fans are dumb.'

'Though I suppose you'd be happy no matter what happened, huh, Someone
With Mass? If Shepard turned into a cartoon you still dutifully suck on
Bioware's teat. '

Point is, dude has a history of needless aggression and juvenile insults towards people who don't share his opinion. So I don't like seeing him try to play the 'I was just making an argument' card now.

Also before you ask, I'm not asleep right now because my neighbours have turned their radio up really loud and I can't get to sleep. Nothing kills blissful slumber like ACDC slamming into your ear and 1:00 in the morning.

Modifié par V-rex, 13 mai 2011 - 05:13 .

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

1. It's no more murder than it would be for me to shoot Fist in ME1, frankly.

It's far more. Fist tried to commit murder. The Quarian Admirals did not.

2. Yes, Tali's a good person.  Not my Shepard's LI, but a good friend to him.  But I would go the same length for anyone on my crew.  Every. Single. One.  Even Jack, who frankly kind of scares me.

You confuse this for a virtue.

Your opinion has been noted.

Correction: my military ethics training has been noted.

Your opinion has been noted.

[jamesp81]

Arcian wrote...

People still bashing themselves bloody against this wall?

Good times.

The best.  The blood tastes sweet to me

[jamesp81]

[CroGamer002]

^Both of them are douchebags.

Though I take side with Qwib Qwib since he's not sending his species to death.